Alcaraz’s Genius, Zverev’s Window & Sinner’s Response | Post Australian Open Breakdown

Alvin Owusu (00:00.462)
And welcome to another episode of the best three podcast. I'm Alvin and that is Patrick and Patrick is here post sometime post Australian open and we're going to talk about a little bit about his perspective on the tournament and and some other things like other things like junk ballers and other weird things that we like to we like to kick back and forth. But I will I will first say Patrick, good to see you. Happy New Year. How you doing?

Patrick (00:09.098)
Yeah.

Patrick (00:26.942)
not bad. How about you? I'm alright. I'm flying. I'm flying from Japan to Wisconsin pretty soon. So I'm just, I'm gonna get colder. I'm already cold, but for the most part it's, it's not too bad. I'm exhausted from watching the Australian Open still, but I know, I mean, I've been watching how you and Tori have been dissecting stuff. It's been great. So yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (00:44.577)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (00:52.344)
Thank you.

Patrick (00:55.826)
I guess you've already talked a lot about the Australian Open, so I, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:00.238)
A good bit, a good bit. But I do wanna get your perspective though because not only is your, the way that you view tennis and the way that you view watching tennis and your tennis background obviously is, provides an interesting lens through which to have these conversations. But also, one of the most interesting things to me about the Australian Open is the way that us in the Northern Hemisphere, especially here in the United States have to.

You really got to grind to watch the Australian Open. None of the matches are ever at a convenient hour. So I always say that it's really cool to watch tennis when your house is dark, but it's bright on the television. And it feels like getting up at 3.30 AM to watch women's and men's finals. like you're owning a tennis scout badge of some sorts. But you live in the Southern Hemisphere. Is that right? Yes. Yes.

Patrick (01:28.938)
True, right.

Ha ha ha.

Patrick (01:39.088)
wow, yeah.

Patrick (01:49.407)
That's

That's it. Well, no, no, no. Northern, but the time zones. Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:53.952)
No, well, okay, less the hemispheres, more you are in the same relative time zone, much closer to Australia than we are here in the United States. So you're tired, kinda give me how you consume the Australian Open as a relative local.

Patrick (02:05.844)
Hmm.

Patrick (02:13.0)
Yeah, well it's interesting because we get a lot of Alexandra Ialla stuff. I mean she is blowing up right now. Just yesterday she just beat Sassnovich. I don't know how, but I think it was more the crowd effect, how they were supporting her. She's monstrous crowd right now. So we get a lot of, of course...

Alvin Owusu (02:20.526)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick (02:37.744)
Asian players highlights, I guess, because of where I'm located. But for the Australian Open, I'd say the most exhausting day was the semi-final. And I watched probably, I'd say out of the 10 hours, I watched eight solidly without, and then went through. But that...

I felt I learned everything I needed to know about those four players in those two matches. At this state, I thought, okay, I understand them completely, what they're going through, what their state of mind was, how they're going to have... I even think I can see how this year is gonna... I mean, not that I can predict it, but I can see how the year is gonna unfold, especially for Zverev, I think. I watched a lot of Zverev after that day.

Alvin Owusu (03:25.486)
Mmm.

Patrick (03:30.128)
But the way I consumed it was, I felt it were two hours away from Austrian Open. So I was able to just stay up all day with them and even had an advantage. when it was nighttime there was two hours earlier. So it was nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (03:47.054)
that's good. That's good. That's good. So, okay. So I want to hit one thing before we get into the the Zverev of it all because I find Zverev to be, I'm also very interested in Alexander Zverev at this given point in the tennis season, but Alex Yala, right? So I watched her match a good bit of her match against, it was Alicia Parks, maybe the first round of the Australian Open was the first round, I believe.

Patrick (03:56.607)
Hmm.

Patrick (04:01.054)
Hmm. Yeah.

Patrick (04:07.496)
Mmm, yeah.

Patrick (04:14.249)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (04:17.11)
And what I noticed was kind of the same thing that you were speaking to, like the crowd was a, an enormous factor in that match. They're playing on an outside court, not too large. but it felt like a true like home, almost fed cup, Billie Jean cup match. because the crowd was on top of the court. And, I mean, I'll, one, I'll give hats off to Alicia Parks cause she,

Patrick (04:37.737)
Yeah.

Patrick (04:44.682)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (04:44.802)
got bagel to the first set and then rode out the storm and won it in three, but it's very, Grand slams are different in that there are a lot of people there who are not your traditional tennis fans. And I think, you know, a lot of commentators mentioned it. There's some people spoke about how like the, the Americans who were at the Australian open, like they get into their big like USA USA, but everyone kind of gravitates towards their, their countrymen. because you know,

Patrick (04:48.158)
too.

Patrick (05:07.849)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (05:14.296)
they're traveling from all over the place. Like I want to go support the person whose flag is the same as mine with Ayala being a Filipino. It is the grants, grants name of the Asia Pacific. I mean, yeah.

Patrick (05:18.367)
Yeah.

Well, Yala, yeah. That's it, that's it. Yeah, she calls it her home slam, I think. And I think what happened with Parks that one match with her was she, you know, she wins 6-0. And then I think maybe some self-consciousness came up. And also that crowd was just insane for her. then...

I felt she just started to get a little bit careful and that in that way she you know she's 20 she's 20 she's she's gonna she's gonna get better so but then I watched Sass Novich

Alvin Owusu (05:49.624)
Mm-mm.

Patrick (05:59.814)
in her play in Abu Dhabi and I thought okay Abu Dhabi neutral location let's let's see how she handles it no not neutral not neutral at all it was another thunderstorm for Iyala and you could just see the crowd just put Iyala on their back and just say no you're not losing this match you're not losing

Alvin Owusu (06:11.371)
Okay.

Patrick (06:23.406)
and she collapsed on the ground, she was almost crying. It was incredible. thought if she has this support in Abu Dhabi, I've never been to Abu Dhabi, I don't know, if she has support there, imagine New York, imagine other places. If she's getting into the second or third rounds, I think she's going to have an advantage wherever she goes. But yeah, I watched a little bit of that early on in the Australian Open.

Alvin Owusu (06:32.13)
Right.

Patrick (06:53.26)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (06:53.846)
I mean, that's unique thing and not a lot of players like pick a country that's not a major country, a large country and they're that players on tour kind of by themselves, you know, if they're garnering crowd support, it's off of their own personality and maybe the quality of their tennis, but players like herself, players from Argentina are also rabid fan bases who really rally around their countrymen.

Patrick (07:10.89)
True.

Patrick (07:17.544)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (07:23.426)
That is a, as you start to get large crowds at, large crowds who are traveling for Grand Slams, which are not just tennis anymore, they, they, they, they, they're veering into the festival space, if you will. well, I'll show you it open in US Open specifically. you start to get more people who are what I would say they're here for the vibes and the vibes being here for the vibes and the, and the vibes being, I'm going to share, I'm going to share really loudly.

Patrick (07:38.026)
That's a good word for it. Yeah, yeah.

Patrick (07:47.018)
Here for the vibe. Yeah.

Mm.

Alvin Owusu (07:53.378)
really loudly, that's, you know, I'm proud of you for watching tennis right now. I need a full like week off. I'm not watching anything.

Patrick (07:58.698)
What?

For me, what I love about the smaller tournaments is you start to see a lot more experimentation in games. You see players who are trying new shots. You see players who maybe new equipment and all that stuff. I actually love 250s and 500s probably just as much as Grand Slams. I really like watching, even if I can get a glimpse of 125s,

Alvin Owusu (08:32.674)
wow, wow.

Patrick (08:32.684)
Oh, I really like when I watch 125s and I know that players like I gotta win this tournament so I can go up 10, 10, 10, 10. Do remember, you know, Goffin, right? David Goffin.

I remember when he was playing and he would just really just target all of these challengers and then you just keep seeing his ranking incrementally go up as he's he's just hustling on this 125 tour and and up to into 250. I don't know. I like that kind of stuff. So you get to see player you get to see the junk ballers like what we've talked about a bit more you see junk ballers. I guess what do I need to do I need to describe what a

Alvin Owusu (09:08.065)
Yeah.

Patrick (09:16.012)
I don't

Alvin Owusu (09:17.485)
I mean if you want to, feel like this, what I've learned about the BO3 army if you will, is that they get it. Definitely a highly educated tennis consumer. But go ahead and give your definition of a junk baller as I think the listeners might not be aware you are one of them. These are your people.

Patrick (09:24.212)
Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Patrick (09:38.186)
Yeah, yeah, that's the truth, isn't it?

Well, junk ballers are, they improvise to a fault, I would say. think at some point they would rather give the opponent a shot they haven't seen rather than give the opponent the shot that they need to perhaps win. It's not so much for the crowd. It's more for variation. It's more for unpredictability. I think Jensen Brooksby right now is doomed.

to be a junk baller. I think he hasn't realized that yet, but I do think he needs to just really lean into it more and more and just embrace being unpredictable. that's Brooksby on that level.

Alvin Owusu (10:15.511)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (10:30.797)
Would you say that Jensen Brooksby's, if he were to play a more traditional game, which I mean, Jensen Brooksby is a highly accomplished junior player, and then obviously he's on the pro tour, he's a top 100 player, maybe in top 50 now, definitely top 75, so he is making a living playing professional tennis. Are you saying that his ceiling as a quote unquote standard player is limited and he would,

Patrick (10:42.164)
True.

Patrick (10:45.898)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's top 50. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (11:00.373)
Maybe not win more, maybe win the same, but maybe find more overall success by leaning into more of the dark side, the other side, the underside.

Patrick (11:10.91)
Yeah, yeah. This one's gonna be hard to unpack because it's really, it's a personal thing for me to see a junk baller play and when you know and identify them as somebody who has this unique shot making ability, almost to the point where it's detrimental to them improving, that's, do you see what I'm saying? Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (11:18.87)
Absolutely.

Alvin Owusu (11:35.095)
I do, I do, this is what I'm gonna do. I wanna hold the junk baller onion to be unpeeled. I'm gonna push it out a little bit. I'm gonna push it out a little bit. Let's go back to the Zverev of things. You were attracted to, of all the four players competing in the semifinals on the midsides, Zverev, stick out to you. Why do you say that and what for?

Patrick (11:43.242)
Sure, sure.

Patrick (11:47.208)
Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick (11:53.962)
yeah.

Patrick (12:00.618)
okay so the Alcraz match was that was a marathon right I mean that was

Alvin Owusu (12:05.387)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick (12:07.922)
You see Alcraz get injured and then you see those two tight tiebreakers and post match Zverev says, maybe I should have, you know, gotten rid of them faster during those sets to save myself because at 5-3, I couldn't push up when I was serving. You know, that was his big comment. just, he Yeah, of course at 5-3, I don't know, I haven't gotten to his level, but I would imagine I'd be massively nervous too.

Alvin Owusu (12:25.869)
Yeah, in the post match,

Patrick (12:37.836)
which would explain probably his legs getting a little weaker in that, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's been the marathon five and a half hour match. I mean, you're like, oh my God, I'm going to beat this guy. I'm going to get to the final. yeah, of course I would shake. But yeah, I don't think I would even be able to feel the racket in my hand at that point. But what I saw in Zverev, though, is fitness.

Alvin Owusu (12:49.764)
Right, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (13:04.514)
Yeah.

Patrick (13:07.756)
I guess I never really understood how fit Zverev was until the end of that match and Yeah, he said his legs were shaky and everything but he seemed very well constructed and able to handle anything Any long match and the 7676 sets that he won I Thought this bodes really well for the French for him

Alvin Owusu (13:24.237)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick (13:34.922)
I think he should feel so confident that he can outlast anybody on tour at the French Open. So when I was watching him play, you ever notice Zverev, he's almost phobic to hit the ball before the service line, unless it's an angle. So he hits the ball so deep.

Almost all the time, all the time. I mean, I know a lot of, of course a lot of players, that's the goal. I mean, that's what we're taught when you're younger. It's like get it past the service line so that you can neutralize your opponent. But Zverev, when he does it, he limits Alcaraz's ability to improvise. And I thought, wow, Zverev can stunt Alcaraz's ability to find joy in the game.

Alvin Owusu (14:27.446)
Hmm

Patrick (14:28.548)
And that's where I was, my mindset was with Zurerov. thought he can knock off Alcares because he drains him. He can drain him a bit. Whereas I think with Djokovic and even with Sinner who I think that's another story, but with Djokovic especially, there is a component that...

allows Alcraz to be freer. He can do what he wants. He can change his game. But I think Zverev has an uncanny ability to make you feel like you can only do this. And if you don't do this, you will lose. So, slowly. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (15:09.996)
Okay, okay, let's unpack that because I won't even bury the lead here. I agree with you. Let's start there. Coming out of that tournament, yes, what Carlos did was amazing. One, two, what Novak did was amazing. Let's not forget that, that was also amazing. But the Zverev of things, I've been critical of Zverev on this podcast.

Patrick (15:17.031)
Okay.

Patrick (15:23.848)
True.

Alvin Owusu (15:34.856)
I was critical as Vera for not being able to serve it out. I think he serving at five, four in the fifth set. I'm I'm like big, I'm like big man. You've got, you've got the balls in your hand. Like you have the balls in your hand. You're serving at a 70 % first serve clip. You're 75 % of your first serve points won. Like this is the, what, what more, what more do you want? What, what more do you want? And okay, I have not ever felt.

Patrick (15:40.71)
Okay, yeah, true, true.

Patrick (16:00.969)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (16:03.552)
five and a half hours of tennis against the best player in the world in my legs on a hot day, okay? Fair, fair. So let me, let me, let me, I will come off of that and go, okay, if he couldn't, look at the contrapositive here, if he couldn't get it done, it must be that difficult. So let's put, maybe we can look at it from that standpoint. Two, to his point about maybe he shouldn't have gotten through those seven, six sets a little bit quicker.

Patrick (16:08.808)
Right, right, true, true, yeah.

Patrick (16:22.302)
That's true. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (16:32.076)
Yeah, he also should have probably held at five three in the second set when he was serving for that one too because then we're not Yeah, I would too. I Would too. Yeah, that's that's that's that's the one I'd be more concerned about Because none of the legs are an issue. You're you're down a set. You're up a break. You're you've got the ball in your hand again You we need to capitalize and the guy's cramping and he's cramping like that This is one we need to win and then maybe maybe sets three and four look a little

Patrick (16:37.738)
He regretted that, he said that. Yes, that was a big one, yeah.

Patrick (16:56.264)
Yeah, yeah, true.

Alvin Owusu (17:01.92)
different for Carlos, but I mean, they still went fine for Alexander. those are kind of the things that stick out, they're kind of at a macro level. All the things you said about Zverev are true. I believe them to be true. He is a difficult player to play against. He takes away some things specifically away from Carlos Acares. He's also, I guess that's for a reason. He is somewhere between three, four,

In the world, right? That's, he should be able to, and of all the players who have been vying for, I would say the third spot or someone who can temporarily usurp these top two and get in there and take a grand slam. It should be him. Like he, it's, we're looking for someone, but it's, he's been there the whole time and he, he's six and seven lifetime against Carlos. It's not like Carlos just like.

Patrick (17:33.928)
Right, right, true.

Patrick (17:57.982)
That's it.

Alvin Owusu (17:59.148)
Handles them or anything their last three Grand Slam matches two of them French Open final 2024 went five sets He Carlos lost to him in 2024 Australian Open and then this match went five sets like I mean What are we talking about? Like this is this is this is hard. This is a hard matchup for Carlos because Alexander's very was very good at tennis so I when I look at when I look at what I saw to him and his durability like he doesn't

Patrick (18:00.659)
No.

Patrick (18:05.95)
Hmm.

Patrick (18:14.334)
Yeah, right, It is,

Alvin Owusu (18:28.32)
He doesn't seem to get tired. Maybe to a fault, maybe he should just not worry so much about being extremely durable and more about being like a six-six problem for everyone, but.

Patrick (18:37.94)
This is true, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (18:40.106)
I do feel I'm starting to come around to the idea and I've said it before, think in our Australian open recap that came out last week, when you guys hear this, I think he's going to get one. Like I really, I think it's kind of like, he's going to, I think he's going to get one.

Patrick (18:51.996)
Yeah, me too. Me too.

Yeah. Yeah. There. I feel there's.

in players when they have such an incredible moment that they feel is so historic like Alcraz and Sinner had last year at the French. mean that's a match that's going to be remembered in 25 years. Like they're going to sit old Alcraz and old Sinner down. They're going to be next to each other. They're going to be like, oh wow, what a match. And then Alcraz will say, finally, I hope. Why did you wink at me at the end? know, I think I still want that to happen.

Alvin Owusu (19:08.726)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Patrick (19:32.236)
That's something that everybody's going to compare this year too. And I think that's going to be detrimental to both Alcáez and Sinner. I think the French Open is Varev's best chance to win a slam. I think he has a personal...

He keeps comparing himself to right when he was playing the doll in 2022, when he fell over that injury and hellish pain. He says he's maybe not at that level yet or something like that. And he keeps comparing himself to that Zverev. And I think the French Open, there's an unlocking for him that happens that he...

Alvin Owusu (19:59.862)
Yeah, yeah.

Patrick (20:22.4)
He wants that bad. He wants that as sort of closure to not only am I back, I'm better. Like that's that story.

Alvin Owusu (20:30.091)
Okay, he was in that Nadal match. He was up. He had just won a first set or was he up two sets to love something like that. It was yeah. Yeah, he was taking it to Nadal. That might've been 20. Was that was that 2020? Was that the pandemic one that they moved it to the fall or something like that? regardless, I mean, as much as people talk about Djokovic having a lot of luck getting, you know, in this past Australian Open, you,

Patrick (20:35.017)
Yeah.

Patrick (20:39.166)
He had a lead, he had a good lead, yeah, yeah. He was. Or was it 20, maybe I'm wrong with the year, sorry.

Alvin Owusu (20:59.563)
people often forget things like that, where that same match the doll is not necessarily dead to rights, but he's down against a player who's in top form on the dolls, know, soon to be named court, and he caught a little luck. And center was down two sets of love against Grigory Wimbledon, he caught a little luck. Like these things.

Patrick (21:06.036)
Right.

Patrick (21:10.698)
Yeah, that's it.

Patrick (21:19.274)
That was a lot of luck. God! That was a lot. He has.

Alvin Owusu (21:24.491)
mean, Center's gotten lucky a few times. mean, down two sets to one here in Australia, down two sets of love in London. Like, ugh.

Patrick (21:30.281)
Yeah.

Well, I think Djokovic got all of his luck points just from this last Australian Open. He didn't win six sets, Alvin. He didn't win six sets. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And to me, this is, you know I...

Alvin Owusu (21:46.037)
There were six sets he did not have to win. Just in the middle of the tournament.

Patrick (21:54.12)
You know me and you know I do love Djokovic. He's one of my favorites. And now that sentence has started as a qualifier. Yes. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (21:57.481)
Yes, yes. And I respect Djokovic. like respect the hell out of him. Greatest of all time. Not my favorite, but he is the greatest male tennis player of all time, period. Okay.

Patrick (22:06.162)
Yeah, no doubt. Yes, agreed, agreed, agreed on that. Absolutely. That said, that said, when I see that copy out, yeah, when I saw him with that plate, you know, I thought, is this like a lifetime achievement award? Is this the equivalent of that? Because if I'm him, I'm thinking...

Alvin Owusu (22:14.155)
Cabeat.

Patrick (22:32.114)
I didn't get Mensich and I feel like Mensich would have been a five setter. I really do. I think, well, at least a tough four, yeah. Yeah, because I think they know each other's games and I think there's a lot of mutual respect between them. But Mensich is, he wants to get on a tear. can feel it. I think he's an up and comer. Not as much as Lerner, which I want to get to a little bit. But he doesn't get that tight match with Mensich. And then Lorenzo,

Alvin Owusu (22:38.859)
Maybe. It'd have been tough. It'd been tough.

Alvin Owusu (22:55.883)
Okay, okay.

Patrick (23:02.028)
pulls a Grigor and then he moves on and I feel does he feel like he's having a tournament right now? Does he feel like this is deserved?

Alvin Owusu (23:04.629)
Yes.

Alvin Owusu (23:16.137)
I mean, there's probably only, I mean, one, the man's won 24 grand slips. whatever, it's not like he needs luck per se. Nice to have, but he's won a lot just by being the best tennis player on the planet. One. Two, I think it's only natural to feel like survivor's guilt, I think is probably the best way to look at it. Like you come out of a...

Patrick (23:20.67)
Yeah, yeah.

Patrick (23:25.918)
No, no he doesn't.

Right.

This is it.

Patrick (23:41.876)
That's a great way to put it.

Alvin Owusu (23:43.295)
you come out of a match with a match that you were getting your ass handed to you against Miss Eddie and yet you're the one giving the winner speech. It's like, why I don't, I'm not supposed to be here. But I am, and then you go to sleep wake up the next day and you go, I'm still in the tournament, I gotta keep playing. It doesn't matter how you get here, we're all here.

Patrick (23:48.042)
It's a...

Patrick (23:52.521)
Yeah.

No, no. Yeah.

Patrick (24:02.696)
Right.

Yeah, you almost feel, maybe this is a wild idea, but what if Djokovic just drops his ranking a bit so that he can scatter Sinner and Alcares in the Grand Slam? Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (24:19.627)
had the same thought yesterday. Like, maybe it's not having enough energy to meet them at the end. Maybe it's just playing them earlier.

Patrick (24:28.136)
Yes, yes, or like you get center third round, then you get Alcraz in the final or something like that. like if you do that, is it not, God, easier is such a terrible word, but is it not, do you not have the battery recharged for Alcraz from an emotional standpoint? Back to back center Alcraz? No way, right?

Alvin Owusu (24:53.035)
as they're getting sharper and sharper as they go through, especially in Australia, right? Where you come into the French Open, everyone's played three or so clay court events. They're ready to go. They're ready to go. Middle of the season, clay court ready, ready to go. But Australia, neither Alcaraz nor Center plays a warmup event. So if you're gonna clip them, it's gonna be early. It's gotta be early. okay, I'm glad you mentioned that.

Patrick (24:56.584)
Yeah!

Hmm.

Patrick (25:06.472)
Yeah.

Patrick (25:17.288)
Yeah, that's it. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (25:21.929)
Like we did not talk about this. shared no agenda before this, before this podcast. I was thinking the same damn thing the other day.

Patrick (25:22.692)
Yeah.

We did not. Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, there he is. He's just now moved up to number three, right? So of course, it's probably not going to happen for a long time this site. but if he plays two more years, which who knows at this point, but.

Alvin Owusu (25:44.405)
Why not?

Patrick (25:45.226)
Yeah, yeah, if he plays two more years, I say this year, go for it. Go stay stay three, do it. But maybe next year, chill. Just just go chill for a bit. Let those points go like, I'm going to not play this Grand Slam. That's it. That's it. You're like, by the way, it says I'm number three, but.

Alvin Owusu (25:59.691)
Can you denounce your ranking and then appeal for a wild card into the event and just go with the luck of the draw?

Patrick (26:15.474)
I concede number three and would like to put a zero next to it or something like that. I don't know.

Alvin Owusu (26:20.971)
I will trade spots with the last lucky loser. I will swap spots. It's a wild idea, the logic has merit.

Patrick (26:27.24)
That's it. I don't know. Yeah, it's it's of course it's yeah, it does. But I don't maybe that'll be as when he's in his early 40s and he's wrote can't didn't Ken Rosewall win some things in his early 40s. I don't remember but yeah, anyway, that's long, long time ago. But so yeah, that was that. Yeah. So that's Djokovic.

Alvin Owusu (26:46.165)
I have no idea.

Alvin Owusu (26:55.359)
That's the joke of a bunch of things.

Patrick (26:56.522)
When he was holding that plate, I thought, wow, that's a lifetime. That's a lifetime achievement award. That's something he should auction and give to charity, I think. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (27:06.859)
Yeah, maybe so. Maybe so. It won't look nice next to the 10 that he's won. Never lost in a final at the Australian Open. Specifically. Yeah, but he got there.

Patrick (27:16.104)
Yeah, that's it. I want to bring up Larner a bit.

Alvin Owusu (27:22.859)
Ah, let's talk about Lerner. I first heard of Lerner Tien in 2022 when he was a top ranked American player in juniors. I he went, did a semester at USC and then I made a point to go see him because I went to the Australian Open in 2023. He was playing the junior event. I was like, I'm gonna go see this kid. So I went out to the outside court. was the same day I was there for the quarterfinals and

Patrick (27:24.86)
Is that alright? Yeah.

Patrick (27:31.421)
Okay.

Patrick (27:39.529)
yeah, yeah.

Patrick (27:48.19)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (27:52.701)
I sat three rows back and just watched him work and I was like, solid, solid, like solid, solid. was a little chubbier, not in pro shape, obviously he's a junior at that point, but court presence was there. He operated in the same way then three years ago as he does now, in my opinion.

Patrick (27:59.754)
Solid.

Okay. Yeah.

Patrick (28:13.67)
okay.

Patrick (28:19.775)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (28:21.045)
He is in control of what's going on in the tennis court. He has played thousands of matches at a very cerebral level. And he's just like, it's like he's like, I've got, I've got this. I understand everything that's going on out here. It's all within, it's all within me. All of it.

Patrick (28:36.22)
That's exactly how I feel about Lerner right now. I think Lerner and Ben Shelton need to become best friends right now. They need to go call each other and say, look, hey, Ben, I think we're the future of tennis.

in America, let's just learn from each other for as long as possible. Maybe even play some doubles, I don't know. there, what learner needs is what Ben has and vice versa, I think.

Alvin Owusu (29:09.027)
Yeah, which one which one do you think is harder to get? Like if you had to start if you had to be on the pro tour at the age of 20 and I don't know what Ben is 23. Maybe Ben's 23. Which one would you if you had one and needed the other which which way would you take it?

Patrick (29:18.398)
Yeah, right.

Patrick (29:25.092)
I think what Lerner has is can be taken quicker by Ben than the other way because but I'm talking more like attitude and all.

Alvin Owusu (29:36.395)
okay.

Patrick (29:36.786)
from an attitudinal basis, Lerner just needs a little bit more of that assertive quality in his match, to find that moment to overpower the opponent without having to make it so unbelievably hard on himself. Whereas with Ben, he needs to find different ways of...

Alvin Owusu (29:52.427)
Mmm.

Patrick (29:59.124)
providing variety in his game during matches so that he doesn't seem so so much like a bulldozer like somebody who can I'm trying to overpower you and If I can't overpower you, what do I do next? I think learner has these dimensions to himself in his game that Ben can take from and That's that's where I'm safe. So I guess it's 50-50 more like which one but

Lerner knows angles. He reminds me a little bit of Nishikori.

So, because in the same coach, you know, they got Michael Chang and when Nishikori 2014, he makes the US Open final, he beats Prime Djokovic, you know, he beats, he beats players that are already at that level and he has angles. Nishikori has no business beating these top players, but he has these, the angles that they don't see every day and Lerner has the same thing. He's able to make the court wider and

And he knows when to use it. He knows when to use pace. He's not just drilling the ball as hard as he can back at the other guy creating a pace that they're used to. He's figuring it out in a way that the opponent is not used to seeing. I love that. He's next, man. He's next. I think he's next.

Alvin Owusu (31:23.657)
I'm with you, I'm also Team Lerner. I'll put it in, try to put it in tennis terms when we talk about A game, B game, C game, right? Lerner has his B game and C game on lock. His A game needs more pop. And I feel like he can grow into that. Ben has A game all day. But if that doesn't work,

Patrick (31:33.693)
Okay.

Patrick (31:41.546)
Yeah.

Patrick (31:49.459)
All day.

Alvin Owusu (31:51.348)
when he bumps up to these top five guys, then his B game and C game need some maturation, if you will. But I will say, Ben's also top 10 in the world, so I think he's doing fine. He's doing fine. Let's put that out first. Whatever he's doing is working, and he's moving in the right direction. So.

Patrick (31:54.058)
Yeah.

Patrick (32:06.654)
God, yeah. Of course, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (32:18.157)
I mean, both of them move in the right direction. American lefties on the men's side are tracking well right now. But from my standpoint, I would probably take the other side. I'd rather come from a standpoint of having all of the court sense and the savviness and all of those things and then add power. You need to add power and aggression on top of that.

Patrick (32:20.874)
Yeah, what?

Well, yeah.

Patrick (32:44.788)
Yeah, that's kind of the question where I think you and I are volume back and forth right now. Like which, which one is easier to obtain when you are there? mean, there are, there are adults in this way. Their, their game has reached a point of maturation. Do, are you able to add power and aggression easier than you are to find court sense, which may come from experience depending on how aware you actually are. But.

I don't know what, you know.

Alvin Owusu (33:14.617)
I think, so I think court sense comes from like, know how they say you learn, lot of the skills you learn when you're very young child are the ones that kind of like get fused together and then you take them with you. It's like, you can tell that.

Ben came up doing sports things in a very straightforward kind of way. He played football, yes, that's well documented. He's got a very powerful game. He's trying to go through you, forehand trying to go through you, serve trying to go through you. Lerner has never been big and powerful. So you can tell he probably grew up playing those little drop shot games and bounce games at the net and trying to use angles. He was that kid in the academy doing those kinds of things.

Patrick (33:35.668)
Right, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (33:58.683)
And now he has that skill set and is able to manipulate the ball. was saying, it's kind of given my, my take on this to Tori. It's like. Lerner has complete control of the ball when it leaves his strings. Like he's, he's got it. He knows exactly like there aren't miss hits. He knows exactly where that ball's going. He's, he's in complete control on both wings. It's like, now can he, can he be, is he willing to.

Patrick (33:58.75)
Yeah.

Patrick (34:07.594)
Hmm.

Patrick (34:13.726)
That's it. Yeah.

Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (34:28.713)
lose a little bit of control to add in a little more aggression, which we saw traces of it. dropped 20 aces against Marcus Guiron in the first round match. That's big.

Patrick (34:30.698)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick (34:42.026)
That's true. Yeah, well, that's what I love watching about Lerner. And that's what I think he'll eventually give people like Alcraz and Sinner problems with. More Alcraz, less Sinner. Sinner's a problem for Lerner. That was just a... No, no, yeah, of course, yeah. I said a very obvious thing, but yeah.

Alvin Owusu (34:57.353)
So there's a problem for like everybody.

Like

But no, in that Alcaraz and Sinner live in this duopoly, but not everyone interacts with that duopoly in the same way. Like Zverev, like we talked about earlier, Zverev can match and handle Alcaraz on occasion. He seems to really struggle with the execution of Sinner, which is a very, I guess everyone kind of does. He just makes it so hard.

Patrick (35:09.673)
Yeah.

Patrick (35:13.834)
True.

Patrick (35:28.894)
Yeah. Yeah, the RPMs that center's working with, the horsepower, it's unparalleled. It really is. He has groundstrokes that have not been in the history of tennis. I don't think that... They've never been hit consistently this hard, I think. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (35:48.573)
That's a fair statement. No, that's a fair statement.

Alvin Owusu (35:54.953)
He plays perfect baseline tennis like perfect baseline tennis and in a a good

Patrick (36:00.298)
And that, yeah, all that perfect baseline tennis is for learner. Learners like, okay, I'm going to craft this point. And center's like, all right, I'm going to take you this way, then this way, then this way, then this way. And then finally, I'm going to get a nice service ball shot. It's over. Learners thinking, oh my God, what do I do? What do I?

Alvin Owusu (36:20.745)
Oh, lear, learners trying to capitalize on ball forward and centers like there will be no ball for your, your, your ball too. Wasn't good enough. You're you're we're done here. We're done here. Uh, there are no, there are no mistakes allowed. It's yeah. It's interesting. Like, like that, like, yeah, center plays perfect baseline tennis and everyone else is also playing baseline tennis. So that's why they can't beat him. But I'll crash. Just like, I'm not gonna play baseline tennis. I'm going to do something else. We're gonna play sideline tennis and then we're gonna play back fence tennis and then we're going to play. I'm coming to the net tennis.

Patrick (36:25.45)
Right, right.

Heh.

Patrick (36:43.486)
That's it. Yeah.

Patrick (36:49.052)
That's right. That's it. That's it. I think Lerner.

Alvin Owusu (36:49.543)
Now you're coming to the net tennis.

Patrick (36:54.792)
Lerner could have more fun with that type of improvisation and he could actually make things work in his advantage. whereas Alcaraz is like, all right crowd, come with me again. We're going to make some incredible moments. Lerner's like, I'm going to stay right here in this spot. And I'm going to go with you, but I'm going to know when the angle appears just slightly quicker than you. That's Lerner in a couple of years against Alcaraz.

don't know what he's going to do with center. That's true. Yeah. Why do you think center, this is such a general question, but why do you think center lost to Djokovic? Is it just because Djokovic was unbelievably fresh and was like, wow, I didn't play in about four days. So it do you think.

Alvin Owusu (37:28.081)
I don't know a lot of people are gonna do this dinner. They're gonna do anything with them. They're gonna they're gonna they're gonna lose they're losing to him

Alvin Owusu (37:50.09)
Uh, I'm going to, I'm going to watch my head for the Djokovic keyboard warriors. We're about to start coming at me here. Um, I think Yannick just didn't play well, quite honestly. Like when I was watching that match, even as, even to the, through the third set, it was like Yannick's playing at about 85 % right now he's cruising. He doesn't really seem like he thinks he's going to lose this match and he operated as such. He just played so poorly on break points.

Patrick (37:56.911)
okay.

Patrick (38:10.25)
Yeah.

Patrick (38:13.748)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (38:20.125)
Like uncharacteristically bad on two out of 18. Like how many times was joking down triple break point and like that's Yannick had six opportunities at triple break point and got none of them. Like what is, what is, in what world does that happen?

Patrick (38:20.265)
Yep.

Patrick (38:26.9)
Yeah.

Patrick (38:36.714)
Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (38:38.483)
I mean, Novak served well on some of them, on some of them, but there was one in particular where Yannick had an inside-in forehand return and just sprayed that thing. he looked like not himself. This was in the fifth set. And I was like, what the hell was that?

Patrick (38:41.342)
Mm. So.

Patrick (38:47.846)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nah.

Patrick (38:57.322)
Yeah, he's never that, well, in the last year and a half or so, he's never that way, especially on hardcore. And yeah, I still feel how I...

mentioned about his indoor level. think if you close the roof on that day against Djokovic's fifth set, Djokovic, you know, so yeah, sorry. because center can just dial in a little bit more indoor and just control the elements. So, but okay.

Alvin Owusu (39:21.671)
Yeah, yeah, potentially,

Alvin Owusu (39:32.317)
How do you think Yannick responds? Like we've seen Yannick have some things, things have happened to him in the last year or so, and he has always responded well. Like he got suspended, he found out, he got the allegations of substance abuse, whatever it was officially, he finds out during the US Open two years ago, 2024 US Open, and he carries that with him through the entire event, wins the event, right?

Patrick (39:46.292)
Mm.

Patrick (39:50.026)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (40:01.819)
He gets suspended, he comes back from suspension and first tournament back he's in the finals of Rome against Carlos, right? Okay, that match against Carlos, comes back, he's in the finals of the French Open. Loses the heartbreaker, like what does he do after that? He comes back and he wins Wimbledon, right? So he has shown a certain level of resilience here. I think this is another point, like what does he look like coming off of a

Patrick (40:10.376)
Yeah.

Patrick (40:15.402)
Yeah. That is a heartbreaker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick (40:27.849)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (40:30.747)
a very public missed opportunity. What does he come back looking like in the next swing, if you will?

Patrick (40:37.864)
Hmm. Well, I think he has a lot of, well, this is a practical answer, but he has a lot of ranking points to pick up.

that people don't really, know, that three months suspension leaves three months of tournaments, which leaves a lot of points that he can pick up and then maybe take the number one spot. I think he wants, of course he does, he wants number one more than anything. So when that means beating Carlos, but I don't necessarily think that he's gonna have these next two grand slams. I don't think he's gonna have the French Open, and I don't think he's gonna have Wimbledon.

Alvin Owusu (40:47.079)
He does. He does.

Alvin Owusu (41:16.167)
Are you saying that because Carlos is going to take them or someone else is going to take you? You think Zverev is going to win the French Open.

Patrick (41:25.47)
I do. I have that sense. have the sense that Zverev is positioned. I hope he stays healthy and everything and mentally I hope he stays plugged in because I know there's he's got an existentialism streak to him that he falls into quite a bit that is like, well, you know, where's the joy? Where's the joy? Or, you know, he can't find it. And I mean, that might happen, but

If he could just say, it, know, forget it, forget all this stuff, like, and just lock in for that French Open, he should take it. I think he's there. For Sinner and Alcraz, I don't know. There's the iconic part of what last year brought that makes me think that they're not gonna perform at the exact same level. So.

Alvin Owusu (42:17.801)
Well, mean, they can not perform at the same level and one of them still win the tournament. Like that, that, that could be true. But last year at the, at the, not the show, at the French open, Zverev didn't lose either one of them. He lost to Novak pretty cleanly. Novak tuned him. so that's a, that's another problem.

Patrick (42:23.838)
This is true.

Patrick (42:33.854)
That's... Yeah. He did. Novak almost always tuned... Like whenever Novak gets on the court with Zverev, I just feel, okay, long rallies won eventually by Djokovic. It's just constant. Constant that.

Alvin Owusu (42:48.753)
Right. Right.

It's a, it's, it's almost like the, uh, the kind of that, the top of the men's game right now. Maybe. Yeah. I would include Carlos and Yannick in this one all the way through about through center. I mean, through center down to Zverev down to Novak or whatever. Where do you want to look at it? There's a rubric there of like, okay, Carlos can beat Yannick. Yannick can beat Carlos. Carlos can lose to Zverev.

But Zverev can't beat Sinner. Sinner probably should beat Novak. Zverev can't beat Novak. Carlos can beat Novak. It's like it's all very, it all kind of depends and being four in the world right now is actually probably a pretty good place for Zverev because it means he won't have to deal with Novak on his side of the draw, right? And he could get Carlos instead of getting Sinner, which you can't win the tournament if you're not in the finals. So he could.

Patrick (43:21.663)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Patrick (43:28.554)
It is.

Patrick (43:35.146)
Hmm.

Patrick (43:42.708)
That's it. That's it. Yeah.

Patrick (43:50.548)
There it is right there. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (43:52.221)
He could get there. He might. He's only lost to Novak and Carlos in the last two years. That's not terrible.

Patrick (43:58.954)
No, it's not. think, yeah, the four right now feel pretty established. I think, I don't know how Novak's gonna do with the French. mean, it's...

Alvin Owusu (44:00.414)
So terrible.

Patrick (44:12.382)
when he has even longer matches and when he has... This sounds so bad. We're gonna get some hate here. if Novak has to actually play a full Grand Slam tournament, I'm wondering what will happen to his body. That's all. yeah.

Alvin Owusu (44:23.067)
You said it, I didn't say it. I didn't say it.

Alvin Owusu (44:31.133)
Yeah, right now five through eight is a bit of a toss up, right? Because you've got Lorenzo at five and Devenor at six, Taylor Fritz at seven, and Taylor has started to beat Alex pretty, Zara that is, pretty consistently.

Patrick (44:48.264)
That's true. That's a horrible matchup for Zverev.

Alvin Owusu (44:51.241)
Yeah, it's starting to be, but also Taylor is starting to feel the, you know, he's having some knee issues that have been plaguing him pretty consistently, or chronically I should say, over the last year or so. I mean, he's not a spring chicken, right? I mean, he is 28, like 28s, they're both 28s, so I don't see them play into 38. So what's the off ramp? When does the decline start to actually happen?

Patrick (45:04.388)
Mm. This is true. Yeah. Mm.

Patrick (45:16.714)
Yeah, well 38 was my, this is too personal, but 38 was my decline during the pick up basketball game. I still remember, I went up for a rebound and my knee went out and I thought, whoa, okay, I am old, it's over. well I was trying to but.

Alvin Owusu (45:34.857)
Oh, you were hooping at 38? I, uh...

Yeah, was playing ball pretty, this is when I lived in Austin. I was playing ball pretty consistently up at UT up until the like three days before my daughter was born when that was in 2016 and I haven't played an organized game of basketball. I haven't played full court basketball since then. Like I just, it happened kind of naturally and then now I'm like, I value my tennis too much. couldn't imagine a life where I get myself hurt playing basketball and I can't play tennis. It devastate me.

Patrick (45:57.372)
Yeah.

Patrick (46:08.754)
Yeah, it still boggles my mind a bit about...

fitness, like how basketball players think tennis players feel at the end of a five and a half hour match, fitness wise. Basketball players, they feel like, I can't imagine playing for that long or something. But I remember when I would play like a, I would play these small tournament and I'd play for two hours and then I would go to the basketball court and I'd play a five on five game, the 11, know, ones and twos.

Alvin Owusu (46:37.673)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Patrick (46:41.382)
my God, I'm done. I am done after that game. it's just, you run full, full, like it's, it's different. It's different in the lungs and just, I feel like I was on fire. Not, not skill wise, the body, the body wise was, I just, was, I was done. And I, no.

Alvin Owusu (47:02.005)
I would have the same thing happen to me when I was playing, you know, through middle school and high school playing basketball. you know, we're always playing tennis. It's kind of the thing that's always happening. You're always going to drills. You're always playing tournaments. But when basketball, so I was always in shape. was always like, you know, I'm always playing tennis at a fairly high level. But then basketball season will start, the first practice, I'm like, I'm winded. And I'm like, why am I winded? I just played an entire summer of nonstop tennis.

Patrick (47:17.268)
Yeah.

Patrick (47:24.692)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (47:32.005)
I'm winded because it's a different kind of activity.

Patrick (47:32.499)
Yeah.

Patrick (47:36.554)
Yeah, it's interesting when you go back and forth. Sorry, this is a little basketball tangent we're on, it's like a when you have a stoppage in basketball during a five on five game, that's not a stop. That's not when the mind is just, whoo, okay. Anyway, what am I going to have for dinner? You know, they're there. You're not thinking that stuff here. Instead, you're thinking, okay, who do I got? All right. What position I need to be in? Like, how am I doing with the?

Alvin Owusu (47:41.66)
Alvin Owusu (47:58.727)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (48:04.509)
while you're running and figuring things out. You're jogging back and you're like.

Patrick (48:07.292)
Right, yes, you're jogging back, it's right, it's constant movement like that. I think tennis, you finish a point, then you walk, you do that whole, like, I'm gonna go walk along the fence as long as possible and onto the, right, yeah, yeah, so.

Alvin Owusu (48:24.425)
Pick up balls, you gotta pick up balls. Get to the line, you gotta serve. I mean we have a 30 second, 30 seconds or 25 seconds, whatever it is between points. Most points, 80, something like 80 % of points in before the fourth shot. like on any given point, like any given moment, you're not working that long.

Patrick (48:34.122)
Yeah.

Patrick (48:48.138)
You're not. This is it. Did you notice that Australian Open was starting to do that? I don't know how to put those sonic dots. They were tracking how many meters the player was running during that. They showed this great point. was like a 25-shot rally. How many meters Alcraz moved? It was like 82.

Alvin Owusu (48:48.169)
You see the highlight rallies, but they're actually highly infrequent.

Alvin Owusu (49:01.565)
Yeah.

Patrick (49:15.434)
And I showed that to a friend and friends like, that's it? I thought only 82? Oh, I thought, well, yeah, but he's really moving like quick, you know, all that reaction stuff. goes, yeah, but that's not even 100. That's not even 100 me. So.

Alvin Owusu (49:33.609)
Not even 100. Not even 100 meters.

Patrick (49:36.326)
Anyway, so what I was gonna say, why I brought all that up about fitness is the five to eight people out of those who will rival those four, it's demon, right?

Alvin Owusu (49:48.969)
Demon, I feel like he has at the French. No, I don't think he doesn't typically do that well at the French because he doesn't really play with much shape and it doesn't fit well with him. He is a hardcore guy and I think he is maximized. I don't expect any surprises out of him from henceforth. He will run into...

Patrick (49:50.474)
Patrick (49:53.884)
At the French at the French at the French.

Patrick (50:03.463)
Okay.

Patrick (50:09.329)
I see.

Patrick (50:15.692)
okay.

Alvin Owusu (50:18.761)
One of those walls and he will die in front of that wall Pretty much like with with valor with valor, but he will he will die in front of that wall

Patrick (50:22.28)
Yeah, yeah. Third, with Valor.

This is a really trivial thing to say, but you know Rude, Casper Rude, just became a papa I think. My friend and I, have this running joke about whenever you get a runner's up plate, it's dinner. So we say, Rude, he's got dinner for three. He's got dinner for three, but can he get dinner for four?

Alvin Owusu (50:36.851)
Papa Rude,

Alvin Owusu (51:00.722)
my god. my god.

Patrick (51:01.322)
So I really want Ruth to have dinner for a while. I hope he...

Alvin Owusu (51:07.379)
That is, for those of you who are listening to this on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, I wish you could see Patrick's face right now. It's quite ridiculous and those of you who are watching on YouTube, you see it, you see it. Casper, just back to your question about those guys in that five through eight space, maybe even five through nine if you wanna stretch out and include Ben. At the French Open specifically, assuming he's okay physically, Lorenzo.

Patrick (51:14.442)
You

Patrick (51:18.814)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (51:37.562)
Lorenzo's coming like and not that I'm just not that this is like the unofficial Lorenzo Macedi podcast but he's coming and he he he was kicking Novak's ass on hardcore no less on hardcore he is he is pushed into the latter ends of Grand Slams on clay and grass let us not forget he did semi-final Wimbledon two years ago somehow

Patrick (51:37.662)
Mmm, that's true.

Patrick (51:44.234)
No.

Patrick (51:53.46)
Yeah, yeah.

Patrick (52:06.322)
Yeah, somehow, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (52:07.317)
And he is a better player now than he was then. feel like Lorenzo, Lorenzo's coming. I don't know what that means, but if, Alexander Zverev catches Lorenzo Mousseti at the, at the French open, better watch your neck Alex. Cause Lorenzo's coming.

Patrick (52:16.745)
Mm.

Patrick (52:23.658)
You think? I like Lorenzo at the French, but I don't like him against Alcares or Sinner, of course. I don't. think especially with Alcares, they'll just get into these shot making.

Alvin Owusu (52:33.723)
Fair. Fair. Yeah.

Patrick (52:40.906)
mine's better than yours type situation. with Sinner, it's weird, it's a countryman, right? And in that way, there is this, there's a different dynamic to that that you and I and anyone else who's not them can't really, really engage with. There's a gamemanship going on there that I think we can't really relate to. when it comes with Alcaraz and Lorenzo, I was thinking of,

Alvin Owusu (52:48.87)
Yep.

Patrick (53:10.88)
actually had a quote ready for for today for the podcast today because I wanted I wanted to bring up more about just a little bit more about Alcaraz's improvisational quality and Lorenzo has it too so now that we're talking about him and that's kind of why they they sort of offset each other and then Alcaraz takes it but here you go this is is what I'll just read it and you it's not about

tennis but I'll just read it real quick. It's all on instinct. I just see what's in front of me and then know how to attack it. And once it's over with, I go on to whatever's next. You want to outscore your opponent and you also want to freak him out with a big move or a big block. That way even if the score is tied, you and he both know who's really ahead.

So this wasn't said by Alcaraz or any tennis player. This is Julius Erving. So I'm reading a book about the doctor. It's called Moses and the Doctor. It's pretty good so far. And when I read that, I remembered Alcaraz talking during the presser. And he said, one shot can change an entire match.

Alvin Owusu (54:13.713)
Okay, the doctor.

Patrick (54:32.722)
And that was the most convincing thing he said in English. That whole presser was just one shot can change the entire match. I know he feels that to his core. He's looking for a haymaker sometimes that will just fundamentally drain the opponent of hope. And he knows that if he gets that one, that one shot, everything turns for him.

I think that that was what happened with Djokovic, right? In the second set, he said that Djokovic missed a couple balls early on. And then Alcares, yeah, he said, he's not perfect. Yeah. then, well, and that with Alcares, there's that ability to innovate or...

Alvin Owusu (55:07.975)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (55:16.261)
He can't keep this up. He's not gonna keep this up all day. Here's my chance. Go get it. and, go ahead.

Patrick (55:29.22)
shape his game set by set, to me that's unrivaled. That's what he can do more than anyone else. Also again, and I'm being very hyperbolic here, it's more in the history of the game. I've never seen someone be able to shape his game in...

during the match as much as Alcraz can do. That's what everybody who says anything about Alcraz, it's a little bit different because they just, they can't grasp what he's doing in that match because I think Alcraz is doing it through just total intuition. He's doing it on the spot almost.

Alvin Owusu (56:10.151)
So, and not to kind of like wax too poetic about Carlos, although it's well deserved, I think the thing about Carlos that is peculiar is that he does the stuff that jumps off the page and that's the stuff that attracts even non-tennis fans to his tennis, right? It's the power, it's the imagination, it's the...

Patrick (56:12.616)
Yeah, sure.

Patrick (56:29.482)
through.

Alvin Owusu (56:36.143)
the things he can do because he is so fast. It's the smile, it's the flair, it's all that stuff. But all that stuff is icing because he is so technically solid in so many areas. His footwork is impeccable. Yes, he is fast as all get out, but the man is strong as hell as well. He's put in the time in the gym. He has built the body.

Patrick (56:50.26)
That's it. Yeah.

Patrick (56:59.818)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (57:04.891)
to be able to withstand and do these things. And the other part about Alcaraz, which Holgeruna brought up in his episode when he was on with Unserved with Anti-Eurotic, was that he mentioned that Carlos makes the best in-match adjustments. And that comes down to Carlos is a lot mentally tougher than people initially give him credit for. They pay attention to all the other stuff.

Patrick (57:13.578)
yeah.

Alvin Owusu (57:34.567)
But as we're now starting to put together, he's put together a four year body of work that we're looking at here. You can't do that without being locked solid on the fundamentals and having a higher level of mental fortitude than your competitors. And you look at his record in five set matches, he's only lost one in his career. That's not a joke. That's not, that's not, we're talking about 13 and one now, I believe it is.

Patrick (57:42.548)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (58:04.25)
That's not by chance. That's something special. That's how you get to the highest of the highs by having a floor that is considerably higher than everyone else's.

Patrick (58:09.13)
Yeah.

Patrick (58:17.748)
Can he maintain what he's doing right now? I feel we're peak Alcares right now in this incarnation, this period of his career. Because you know better than me the way careers have stages for the best.

Alvin Owusu (58:36.422)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick (58:38.64)
I mean, you look at Agassi, you can see his career in almost three parts, right? Especially with the hair, right? So, but with players, their relationships happen off the court. Stuff that happens.

in your life affects the ability to engage the game. And I think with Al Grezis 22, when he won the Australian Open, there he is, he goes up, he hugs his family, his team, he's got the crowd just as putty, just everybody's adoring this guy. And I felt, wow, he has so much support.

Do we just keep this the way it is for as long as possible? Or are we set for a change, a shift?

Alvin Owusu (59:35.462)
So I think it's only natural to assume that, okay, so it's, the question is juxtaposed against the backdrop of is longevity, is Novak, Carlo, mean Novak, Rafa, Roger, are they the litmus here? Is this what we're up against? Because.

Patrick (59:59.643)
Yeah, they've extended that, right? I mean, they've created a window that tennis is 15 years now.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:04.23)
Right, so if we're operating under the assumption that it is a 15 year career that we're looking at and we are a third, maybe a third of the way through it, then you have to assume that there will be ups and downs. There will be times where it's hot, the Grand Slams are plenty, and then there will be times when we're in famine and the Grand Slams aren't coming like they used to. I mean, you look at Federer, right?

Federer goes through a few different patches here, but once he comes out and wins his first one in 03, and then the next year he wins three, and then it's two, and then it's three, and then it's three, and then it's one, and then two, and then one, and then none, and then one, and then none, none, none, none, two, one, none, none, none, none. So you start to see that.

Patrick (01:00:34.014)
Yeah.

Patrick (01:00:50.356)
Mmm. Mmm.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:02.79)
It was all him. And then it was him in a doll. And then it was him on, it was the doll on clay and him everywhere else. And then, and then Murray and then Djokovic and now it's all of them. And then a bundle. And then it's, it's the doll and Djokovic and then that comes out of the woods and then it's the doll Djokovic again. And then that comes back out of the woods. And so like, I don't know, what did he get to 17 of them? Um, that's.

Patrick (01:01:15.336)
Yeah.

Patrick (01:01:20.617)
Yeah.

Patrick (01:01:24.33)
you

Patrick (01:01:29.736)
Yeah. See, I feel like where you're... Yeah, he... Fed? Fed? He got 20, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:32.07)
Was it more than that? 20?

Alvin Owusu (01:01:37.606)
20. Yeah, 20. So, but it's like, it's, we can't keep doing this in perpetuity, right? That won't happen. But it's a pretty good place to start. Like if that's, if the goal is 15 years, if we are assuming 15 years of this, then okay, out of the gate, you need to get a bunch. And then you need to get some. And then you need to consistently pick off one every other year or so.

Patrick (01:01:46.654)
Mm. Right.

Patrick (01:01:56.968)
Yeah.

Patrick (01:02:01.438)
You do.

Patrick (01:02:07.582)
Yep. Becker got a bunch.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:09.217)
I don't know. I don't know if that's, I don't know if we should expect him to play that long. Like it doesn't really seem like maybe, yeah, 10 years, 10 years is probably good.

Patrick (01:02:15.412)
Hmm. That is what I'm thinking. I think Alcaraz at 30, I won't recognize him from Alcaraz at 22. I just won't. I think we're in for more of an evolution in Alcaraz, as a man, a person.

I've read too many books about the early 20s to know how utterly insane

that period is in everybody's life and anybody who's listening. this is an intersection of you either feel on top of the world or in the abyss, right? And I think with Alcaraz, Juan Carlos Ferrero not being there anymore, that happened, that's in the past, but the Australian Open was, I'm gonna prove to everybody that I don't need JCF.

I know there's a lot of love there, I think that now that that has been fulfilled, he's going to be left wondering what to do next. I mean, he's got the double career slam, right, if he goes back and repeats in the Aussie. But, you know, these are check marks, things like that. I know he wants the Davis Cup, and I know he wants the Olympics. Those are far away.

And I, but I'm worried about him actually. I know this sounds really weird, but I'm kind of worried about where his direction is going to go from this point.

Alvin Owusu (01:03:56.752)
Are you worried about him or are you worried about us as fans? Because I think he's just, he plays from a perspective of like a place of just joy. Like he just seems to really enjoy playing tennis and being a professional tennis player. And like, seems to like, he's gotten, he's gotten, starting to get a hold of this life. Like he's like, okay, I make deep runs at tournaments. That means I can't play all the tournaments that they want me to play. That's fine.

Patrick (01:04:09.278)
Yeah, he does. He does.

Patrick (01:04:18.996)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:26.598)
I'm going to make a lot of money out here. I'll do two days at this exhibition. I'll do one day at this exhibition. They'll pay me more money than I'll, than I'll make by playing a 10 day masters, 1000 event. I'll just make it. I'll make it up. I'll make up the points. I'll win the finals of every grand slam. It's fine. It's all fine. But the most important thing is I get to travel the world and hit the yellow ball and try to see how good I can be. And I want, I want this in a bottle for like in a bottle for us forever, but we're not going to get it.

Patrick (01:04:42.729)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:56.452)
But to your point about like, what's his, I think it's question of like, what is his, when you've achieved so much so early, how do you recalibrate goals? And for us, we're looking at it from a standpoint, well, okay, you gotta win some other things, some other combination of things, the gold medal, Davis Cup. I think one of the coolest things that Novak's ever done, he's won all the Masters 1000s like three times over. Like that's sick, dude.

Patrick (01:05:03.134)
Yeah, yeah.

Patrick (01:05:20.202)
That is...

Alvin Owusu (01:05:22.19)
That's sick. I won all the Grand Slams and all the Masters a few times over for all of them. That's... Silly.

Patrick (01:05:26.762)
Yeah.

What a dinner conversation that is. Four of you are around, saying, well, yeah, I did win that tournament. Yeah, I won that one too. Yeah, yeah, well, he could say that for every single one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:41.574)
Every single one of them. Every single one of them. Did we talk enough? think we covered, did we cover the junk ballers at the depth that you wanted to? I know we got into this, when you and I get together, the Alcara's of things pop up and we just, we get a little loquacious here.

Patrick (01:05:55.72)
Yeah, let's, maybe let's save John Ballers. Let's save it for, yeah, let's save it because that's something that I have to really, not just prepare for, but prepare how to deliver it so that it doesn't sound like I'm just talking out of my, you know. So.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:01.902)
Okay, okay, that's fair.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:19.002)
Yeah, that's fair. you are, for those who are still listening, Patrick does contribute, he's a sole contributor to the best of three podcast, Substack actually, because Patrick is a, only a professor, but a writer by trade and does spare some words for us normies about tennis on the Substack. I'll make sure, I hope that that should be linked somewhere in the bio, but if not.

Patrick (01:06:37.066)
You

Patrick (01:06:43.859)
yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:45.54)
I'll link it in the comments, maybe in the description. I should do something like that. That seems like what a professional podcaster would do. link, subscribe, tell your friends, all that kind of stuff. I think, I think, I think we did well, Patrick. think we did well. We did well. and to always to be continued, enjoy your travels, get, get over here to the States safely. and if I don't see you soon, I will, I will definitely talk to you soon, That's the three we are out.

Patrick (01:06:58.804)
We did well, I think so. To be continued, as always.

Patrick (01:07:11.134)
All right.