Australian Open 2026 Men’s QF Review & SF Preview | Djokovic, Sinner, Alcaraz, Zverev |

Best of Three Podcast – Australian Open 2026 Men's QF Review & SF Preview
Combined Transcript (Two-Part Recording)

===== PART 1 =====

Alvin Owusu (00:00.786)
And welcome to another episode of the best of three podcast. This is our, 2026 Australian open men's quarterfinal review slash semi-final preview. we've wrapped up, I think all the matches happened last night slash this morning. so we've got Carlos took down, demon or we got Zverev taken down teen. We've got a center taken down, been Shelton and we've got Novak kinda taken down.

Torrey (00:29.898)
kind of almost got taken down by Musteri.

Alvin Owusu (00:30.382)
Yeah, let's, you know, we have some space here and we've been having some conversations kind of not just about the matches and the matchups, but what we're seeing kind of macro level and at the top end of the men's game right now. And I think this is a really good time to kind of have a conversation around it. I think we're gonna, it's best to start with Novak versus Musetti, right? So obviously in the semifinal, you're gonna get Novak versus Yannick Center. Novak is, I mean,

This is gonna be the tale of the two guys with the four-leaf clovers coming out of their butts, right? Novak has gone from almost being kicked out of the tournament to almost being beaten out of the tournament, moving forward with the, I guess, good fortune, Lorenzo's misfortune of an ill-timed injury. But let's talk a little bit about the match itself and what you saw, because I saw...

Torrey (01:04.363)
Yeah, I understand.

Yeah.

Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:28.462)
No, looked disheveled. looked tired. He looked, I don't want to say just old, but Lorenzo looked like, yeah, this is not a problem anymore for the better part of the time they spent on the court together.

Torrey (01:47.447)
I think there were two, you could even say three different parts of this match. And I'm not talking by sets. think the first four games Novak looked like his strategy was working. He was simply missing some finishing shots, a few low volleys, a couple of shots here, maybe even a drop shot, just misfiring. We were talking earlier before we started the podcast.

Alvin Owusu (01:56.322)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey (02:17.521)
I feel that Lorenzo's lack of pace or Lorenzo's intentional giving him more slice, slowing things down to where he was able to use his forehand a little more and not match up backhand to backhand and the pace war was a very smart decision for Lorenzo. And it actually started getting Novak to, in my opinion, get a little greedy. He knew he wanted to come forward. He knew we wanted to get to the net to try to pressure, right? In shorter points, pressure Lorenzo. I don't think he

Alvin Owusu (02:42.478)
short the points.

Torrey (02:46.838)
appreciated how well Lorenzo passes or how well Lorenzo actually took pace off the return. But every time he blocked the return, stayed back, Lorenzo was hanging better than Novak would have liked. And then when he came in, Lorenzo was passing better than he would have liked. So I felt like Novak was in this weird limbo state of if I stay back and grind, it's a death of a thousand cuts for me. And if I come forward, the guy comes up with the goods on the passes.

Eight times out of 10. I don't like those numbers for me. Then the second part of that match was when Lorenzo started finding his groove. He started working his pattern. He started really feeling the ball pretty well, coming over the back a little more, working his inside in forehand. I felt he started to really counter and attack Novak there through the better part of the end of the first. And obviously all the way through the majority of the second and was breaking Novak pretty easily. Most of the time, obviously Novak wasn't serving the best. I think that's when you saw him look.

old, tired, et cetera, et cetera. I think it was also a lot of frustration, Alvin. In my opinion, he looked like, what do I do to beat this guy today? I beat him before, but I thought I had edge on him. I'm not going to say he looked past Lorenzo. Those guys never looked past anybody in the quarters, but I feel like he kind of thought I'll just lean on what I've always done. And I felt, know, go back to the match right before the, the ATP finals. He,

Alvin Owusu (03:47.331)
Right.

Torrey (04:15.389)
was sorely mistaken and I really gave Lorenzo a lot of credit for playing the tactics that he tried. Just an absolute unfortunate timing for Lorenzo with the leg injury but I tell you that was very good match. thought the same thing about the Spazeri match with Yannick Center and obviously don't get me started on the Yannick Center match in Dimitrov at the Wimbledon last year. So these things are happening unfortunately it is tennis you know the guy that's left standing gets the W but

Alvin Owusu (04:25.579)
Yeah.

Torrey (04:45.512)
If I'm Novak, I feel like I dodged a bullet or two right there. I kind of think it actually helps him in an overall scheme of things because let's face it, you don't have to go through sets. But I don't think that was, I don't think that next matchup with Lorenzo will be, me just say it will be the odds are in Lorenzo's favor their next matchup.

Alvin Owusu (05:08.664)
Sure, sure, there's a couple things there. And we can talk about how this matchup between Novak and Musetti is very similar to the matchup between Spazeri and Center. We'll get to that in a minute. But I disagree in that this is helpful. Because at this point, Novak is now in the semifinals again, right? That's five semis in a row in the trot, fine, that's great.

I do feel like how we got here is important. He has played his last two, he hasn't won a, he wasn't won a set in a few days. Let's just put it that way, right? Since the, the breaker against, against, against Botic, right? And that was in the third round. I mean, it's, it's, it's been a minute since my man's played a complete match and come up to the net and shaking hands after doing some, putting in a good day's work, right? We thought that the two days,

Torrey (05:49.213)
You

Alvin Owusu (06:02.605)
almost three full days of rest going into the match with the fourth round match with Mincic was going to help him. Obviously that would have been good. Okay, fine. Mincic, mean, pardon me, you came, Mincic pulls out, so going to the match with Musetti, you would assume he would have been well rested, coming out firing, ready to go to really take on the back end of this tournament. And we didn't get that. What we got was it looked like the rest didn't help him at all. So we've gotten to a point where

The assumption, and this assumption is coming from Novak that the reason why he's a little impotent in the last two rounds of these finals lately, or Grand Themes lately, is because he's not coming in with fresh legs. Okay, okay, we changed that variable. He comes into the quarterfinals with fresh legs, and younger legs coming off of eight sets of tennis over the last 36 hours is still fresher.

and still ready to go. Granted, we got some strain or tear in the hip, something like that, but it didn't seem to help him in the way that he thought it was gonna help him. And I think this is the part that we need to really focus on here is that when you're playing against 23 and 24 year olds, they are moving into their prime and you are moving out of yours. Every week, every month, every Grand Slam,

Torrey (07:06.194)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (07:27.637)
You know that is a little further away from his prime and they are closer to theirs and getting stronger and getting fast. it's, it's, I'm not here for the legs conversation and the rest conversation. I'm here for the, yeah, three out of five is going to be tough when you're, when you're, you've got so many miles on the body and you've, you've done so much. I mean, you say just age, like it just, yeah, it's, it is an age thing.

Torrey (07:32.157)
to them. There.

Torrey (07:55.507)
V

Father time is always undefeated. I think we understand that. There's no way to cut that one any other way than just to say it. It is what it is. I stand by that. I will always stand by it. Heck, I'm living it. If Novak is living it at 38, I'm living it at 53. So make sure we understand that all day long. The only way it helps them, Alvin, is that a...

Alvin Owusu (08:00.576)
Absolutely.

Torrey (08:25.267)
24 time Grand Slam champ has played enough matches to be able to play his way into a match, especially one that he's won 10 times. I'm not saying that he's playing his best tennis. Make no mistake. He's not. I'm not saying the break helped him hurt him. I'm only saying the break didn't hurt him. The break simply didn't allow him to get dinged up, tapped out, hit the fuel cells to the extent that he would have normally. And I'm also saying

We said at the outset, it was a gift of a draw. No different than, than, than the Spazier situation was for Yannick and what, and he was the recipient of it. Not having gone the distance as it happened. I'm not saying he was, clearly I would have preferred for a healthy Mousseti to have finished the deal. Cause that was one more player that's now showing, okay, I'm here. I'm ready to move. I'm ready to.

Alvin Owusu (09:02.071)
Sure.

Torrey (09:22.323)
to move past you know back and I think it would five if Three to five guys start doing that. I think Novak will start to realize you know what the tour is finally up to a level where I could walk away I Just don't feel that's the case yet, and I feel like he's still here He did just beat Mousseti. You know and not even three months ago and a very good match on my dad I know you and I'll talk about that match before I just feel yeah, I just feel like he's in a situation right now where

Alvin Owusu (09:44.907)
Yeah, in Athens, yep.

Torrey (09:52.463)
Anybody else? I'd you're absolutely right. Novak isn't anybody else. So that's the only thing I'm going to put out there. don't want to, there's no speculation. There's no, he still has 50 to one eyes. I don't know. I'm not a Vegas guy to beat, you know, to beat Yannick or then be Carlos on the backend. I feel like he's got a Herculean task ahead of him too. But should he get through the first one? But I'm only saying that

all things being considered, the shorter match and the break certainly help his chances, however small they may be, to beat two of the world's best. That's all I'm saying.

Alvin Owusu (10:32.263)
Sure, two things can, multiple things can be true at the same time, right? Like one, he doesn't have to apologize, and I'm not suggesting he does have to apologize to anybody for being in the semifinals. He is in the semifinals of a fifth straight Grand Slam over the last five. He's here. He's playing Yannick Center in a two days time, right, or days time, whenever you hear this. That is true. That is happening. He is there. It doesn't really matter how he got there. People have gotten to the semifinals on

Torrey (10:41.561)
Right. 100%.

Alvin Owusu (11:02.217)
easier paths before. Yeah, you know, takes a little luck and I'd rather be lucky than good, right? But he happens to be lucky and good. So he's he's here. He's here, right? And so let's put the Musetti match behind us. I agree with you in that the next time that they they are to match up, I feel like we said he's going to feel pretty good. A lot better going into that matchup. And Novak is not going to forget that. Yes, I did get through that match, but the tennis is not the tennis didn't happen.

Torrey (11:10.116)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (11:31.658)
It happened. Everyone saw it. He saw it. He was very forthcoming in the press conference afterwards. Like was going home. I was done. And he caught some luck. Okay, fine. We're here. now he's going against Yannick and I don't know how he can, in what world does he feel good about the situation in front of him? Not that he needs to, but I would, when you look at the two different ways to come into this,

Torrey (11:32.581)
Right, right.

Torrey (11:42.309)
Yep, for sure.

Alvin Owusu (12:00.875)
you can come in fresh or you can come in beat down. You can come in playing well or you can come in not playing well. Regardless of how you, know, those permutations and combinations go together, you're still, they're gonna toss the coin, they're gonna play the match. But if I'm Novak, I feel like I'd rather come in feeling a little bit better about the tennis than I'm playing as opposed to worrying about how much juice I've got in my legs.

Torrey (12:02.287)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey (12:24.082)
And it's fair point. It's a fair point. We'll see. I think it's a good match. I think it's the best chance he has had the last handful of Australians due to the shorter path, less arduous path to get there is all I'm saying. I would never put it past Novak in any match to figure out a way to win. Period in the story. The man's proved that time and time again. Do I think that he matched up well to Sinner?

Torrey (12:55.858)
No. Do I think that center has a lot of extra weapons as center in a lot of respects? Uh, uh, Novak 2.0, so to speak. Uh, yes, I do. And I feel like that's going to be a tough thing for him. I will say if center isn't playing his best tennis and Novak can find a chink in the armor somewhere. If there's anything that a 24 time slam and a hundred plus career title champ has taught me is never count them out.

And he will find a way if there's one to be found. And I'm just saying, we were talking this very same composition last year about he always gets to the end and he's hurt in the process. That's all I'm saying. Now he's not. And he finds himself in the situation yet again. That's all I'm saying. And the fact that he's there, didn't get four walkovers out of You know what I mean? He didn't get all retires. He still...

Alvin Owusu (13:49.229)
Thank

Torrey (13:50.201)
the fourth best player in the world at 38. And I think sometimes we forget that. I know you don't. know one of the one of the reporters was always had the misfortune of trying to dig at Novak like he's always chasing somehow. as Novak so so accurately pointed out, yeah, you left out that 15 year span there when I was pretty much the top dog in the ATP tour. And I collected a few slams in that time frame. You might want to mention that. And I think that was well said by him. And I think it was also

Alvin Owusu (14:01.814)
Heh.

Torrey (14:19.721)
I, I'm going to take that a step further and say, let's not count them out just yet. I'm looking forward to the match. And quite frankly, this match to me will show me how much he has in the tank against the one and two. We know where he's at. He's been a tough, but a just slightly short of the mark on straight sets in the last several encounters. after having beat, didn't beat Carlos last year here. So there's, there's a situation where I feel like

I'm just liking the fact that he does not have the death of a thousand cuts going against him into this match. And with that said, we can move on.

Alvin Owusu (14:54.998)
Sure, well yeah, and the last thing is like, okay, if you look at the, where would you rather be? Yeah, I'm sure if Novak would have liked to played better against Lorenzo, sure. Lorenzo was playing great tennis. But if you come into this sixth match, your sixth match in two weeks, it's gonna be hard to turn back the clock if you have sore legs.

Torrey (15:05.634)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (15:21.288)
it's easy to turn the page from a bad day of tennis to a good day of tennis. So like he can wake up the next day and play better tennis. He can't just wake up the next day and feel refreshed. Right? So like you said, like he, if anyone's gonna, if anyone can figure it out, he's the, he's the super processor on the tennis court, right? He can figure it out. And if he's going to have enough time to figure out, figure it out, he's gonna need his legs and he's got his legs. Okay. Then he's got a chance.

Torrey (15:32.216)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (15:50.295)
He's got a good chance of anyone else not named Carlos Ocariz does, that's for sure. yeah, but let's go over to the Yannick's match against Ben.

Torrey (15:53.4)
Got that right. You got that right.

Alvin Owusu (16:02.732)
At this point, we've waxed poetic about Ben's trajectory over the last 18, 24 months, and also Yannick's trajectory over the last 18 to 24 months, in our year-end review, we talked about the group of players that were born at the wrong time, and we just used that as a little cheeky way to say,

You are the same age as Carlos and Yannick and therefore you can't ignore them, right? They're not going anywhere. This is your problem to deal with for the rest of your tennis career. And Ben is squarely in that group. 22 sets in a row Yannick has taken over Ben Jelton. 22. If you had a player in your academy and they were playing practice sets and he goes, coach, and you go, Justin, you and.

Torrey (16:34.134)
Yeah, yeah, sure.

Alvin Owusu (16:58.316)
You and Slater over here go out, go out to court 18, play a set. Coach, I've beaten 22 times in a row. 22 sets in a row. You're probably like, well, you're going to have to beat him 23 because I want you to work on X, Y, and Z. Not because the other player is, you know, this isn't really, at this point it's not about competition per se. It's about something else. Help me, help me believe, help me believe. Just give me some believe. I'm taking off my PC hat here. I just want you to tell me.

that I should expect something different next time.

Torrey (17:32.559)
A good friend of mine, Eric Dobbsha, used to get, in his words, owned by another top junior back in the day named Brian Dunn. Brian Dunn was, for those of you guys who know, multiple time national champ winner. I don't know if it was 22 straight sets. think it was 13. I think Eric told me 13 times, maybe more. It might've been 16 times. I'm getting the number wrong. It was double digit and it was in a row.

So I got to think in that scenario, 16, let's just say it was 15 times. So there's 30 straight sets. That's what they're talking about. Eric gets something very unique. And this is typical Eric, because you know Eric and we've all worked together. Dobber goes out and gets a shirt made. This is back in the day when you could get one of those custom shirts made at the mall. And the shirt reads, no one beats Eric Dobbsha 17 times in a row.

Alvin Owusu (18:16.353)
I know Eric.

Alvin Owusu (18:31.286)
Shots out to Vitas Carolias.

Torrey (18:34.669)
He puts this shirt on. The shirt alone kind of rocks Brian done a little bit. And Eric says, for the first time, I went out there and said, I'm going to make balls. OK, not going through them, not play the way I always play against them, not trying to be aggressive. I changed everything. Now, this is a junior match. Two very good juniors, I might add. Went on to be some very good college players. one of them had a short sit on the tour, one of them a little longer. But bottom line, the principal holds.

There is hope for Ben. I thought Ben was in very, very good shape at some, at most times on his serve in the match. Only got broken three times out, I I don't, that's a, so maybe it's four, but he's for a guy who has the best returns in the game. And that is with all respect going to Novak. He has the best returns in the game, period. And he, Ben might be one of the best servers right now in the game.

You're taking his best weapon away from him and not giving him any freebies. For him to keep the score even that close to me is in itself, I think it is a plus. Do I think that he will take another four or five matches to go the distance and go five? Yes, I do. Do I think he's getting closer? Yes, I do. I feel like at some point, he's just not ready for his serve to come back with interest that quickly.

And that's what Yannick does to him. He not only returns deep, he returns fast, he returns big, his returns penetrate. And for a big server that's used to holding, know, getting the plus ones that he wants and having balance and going forward, you're always backing up, you're always hitting balls, then he forced you to go for a lot. To be honest, was kind of, I kind of thought Ben kept it pretty competitive. I know what you're saying. I get the stats. I get the analogy. get the numbers. All I'm going to say is...

I feel like Ben's getting closer. And I think that's all you want to say for a guy who's reaching that top echelon. And if you told me that Ben was starting to be semi-final of Grand Slam material this early in his career, I'd say, wow, he's overachieving. And I think that's worth saying, given that we have two Grand Slam winners at the top and bottom of the draw that have taken, what is it now, Alvin, eight of the last 10?

Alvin Owusu (20:57.632)
Eight, eight, eight, definitely the last eight. It's been a lot. It's been a lot.

Torrey (21:00.941)
like last eight, last eight, eight, the last 10, 11, I'm just saying. So to my point, mean, eight of the last eight. So to my point, so that in and of itself is, you're measuring it against the highest possible level. I didn't think he got embarrassed. I thought he got beaten. thought he got out. I thought he got outplayed on about six games. I thought he got outplayed at, in,

another six points in the other three sets. Just in terms of, just didn't quite have the ball accuracy. He left too many balls middle of the court, know, could have done more. Didn't want to go for it to make an early miss at the same time. Didn't do enough with the ball either. And then let Yannick start to get, you know, start to get comfortable. I thought his backhand looks as good as ever, as ever looked. I thought his, in the previous match, I his volleys looked as good as they ever looked. And I feel like he's becoming, he's becoming more than just a serve bot.

I feel like he's only getting better. It's just hard to see the incremental progress when you're playing against the literal antithesis of your game and a guy that doesn't give up any mistakes ever, let alone, and when he's playing well and returning well, it's a tough day at the office.

Alvin Owusu (22:17.055)
I'll agree. I'll concede that it's hard to measure the incremental progress when you're at a match against one of the top two players of the world, best top two players of your generation, potentially, you know, a guy who has aspirations of becoming one of the greatest players to ever play the game, right? I concede that. I don't think that I can concede the idea that he's necessarily getting closer.

I didn't see anything about that match that made me feel, oh, this is different than the last time they played. It didn't feel any different, didn't look any different. Yeah, you said he only got broken three or four times. This is Ben's tennis. You get broken three or four times in three sets, you're going to lose in straight sets. that's, like yeah, Ben is one of the best servers in the game. Yannick's one of the best returners in the game, or the best returners in the game. Yannick's also one of the best servers in the game. So.

It's like, know, we talk about NBA teams. Like if you have a team that's got a top five defense and a top five offense, that's a championship caliber team, right? If you've got one, if you've got a top three offense and a 12th ranked defense, ah, it's gonna be tough. I feel like that's where Ben is right now. He's got a top three service game and a maybe middle of the pack return game. And that middle of the pack return game is getting better, but it needs to be not incrementally better. It needs to be much better.

Torrey (23:19.206)
There's your game, for sure.

Alvin Owusu (23:41.695)
to negate being broken only three or four times because he did not get a look either. Three or four times getting broken, yeah, that's an easy way to get beaten three, three and three, or three, four and three, whatever it was. I'm, yep.

Torrey (23:49.054)
I'm looking.

Torrey (23:54.037)
Yep, three, got broken three times and he saved, unfortunately for him, nine of those 12. Now, and he didn't convert any of the four break points he had against Yannick. I'm just telling y'all, I know what you're saying and I'm not,

Alvin Owusu (24:08.106)
Right, right.

Torrey (24:13.14)
I'm not ignorant of the stats. I watched the match myself. I know exactly what you're saying. I did see more opportunities for... I saw more ways that Ben was hurting him from the back court, which is to me almost the hardest way to beat Yannick, which I like. I like the fact that he was smarter with his first strikes. I actually thought even some of the mistakes he made as aggressive as they were, he was...

Alvin Owusu (24:33.963)
Sure.

Torrey (24:41.535)
taking the right types of shots. I actually think the thing he did the most to me that hurt him the most wasn't even his errors and he had a lot. I felt like the times when he was a little off balance, he played that ball safe. The times he was a little bit in between his footing, he hit that ball down the middle. He maybe went to the slice back in a bit a bit early and didn't necessarily realize he was hitting a slice backhand, you know, whether he went line or whether he went middle.

Yannick kind of likes that low ball off the slice. You know what mean? It's not like he just, he just really likes low balls. He's a very good hitter in general and low balls in particular. So I feel like if I had saw Ben hanging for his dear life on every single game, I would have said, Alvin, you're exactly right. If anything, Yannick is pulling away. I don't think that, I don't think that's what I saw. I saw a player trying different ways to beat him. I saw a player who

only got broken three times and I saw a player that needs to really step up his own return game to match and make his second server turns be a little more aggressive. But again, I think in the next year's time, think Bim will continue to do that. And you gotta play, you gotta play these kinds of guys a few more times, Alvin, to get a look, to get comfortable. And that's all I saying. I'm not telling it's gonna be tomorrow. I'm not telling it's gonna be by the next tournament. But I'm telling you, the more he keeps getting looks, the kid is still a bit raw.

And if I can say that about a four five player in the world who's getting better and still learning, you know, I got to tell you, Alvin, you know this, Alcara's and center are playing at another level. That's obvious. The fact that I keep getting looks at that next level, man, that is precious. And I'm just saying, think Ben, Ben showed me a lot of things that he has never done before. Been patient off the ground, hurting you with his backhand, right? Coming forward.

Not afraid to use a slice, not afraid to use some roll. Running around the right balls, holding court position better. So many things he did better. Relying on the serve and smart targets on the first strike. As I said, he played some of his best tennis, unfortunately, break point down. And how did he get break point down? Perhaps got a little sloppy, right? Got a little bit loose. He will tighten that up. The errors, Alvin, were 34 to 16. So he literally darned or doubled.

Torrey (27:01.665)
More than double, you know, the mistakes. If he can cut down on 10 of those, right, this match could go four sets. Just 10. If he brought the errors down even, it might be a five set match. That's all I'm saying. That's how, that's what we're talking about in terms of how close some of these games were. Yannick only converted three of 12. Now see that to say, now you look at the 12, you look at three. I'm looking at the three. As many as he had, he only converted the three.

And I'm looking at zero for four on Ben's side. And that to me, to your point about Holt and Serf, had he have even converted one of those four, could have been a different match, could have given him some confidence. That's all I'm saying. Do I think he's a level better? He might be two. mean, but he's four levels better than everybody else. So let's not confuse that with Ben's incremental progress. That's all I'm saying.

Alvin Owusu (27:50.763)
Right, right, but that's that's the that's the kind of like

Alvin Owusu (27:59.367)
No, and I, we've been having this conversation around, it feels like it's those two and then everyone else. I think it's, it seems like a race right now between Ben and Zverev and Fritz and Musetti. You know, they're jockeying, and D'Mannor, they're jockeying for that third spot, three through eight is kind of up for it. like, everyone else, who else is coming to Turin this year?

That's what we're trying to figure out and what seed are you going to be when you get there? But I, and we've talked about it at Nausim on this podcast, like I'm looking to see who's that player that has the potential to pop and maybe get themselves into the conversation of being, you know, within those two. with each test that one of these other guys comes up against with these two, against Carlos and Janik, it just keeps.

Torrey (28:28.36)
Right.

Torrey (28:56.882)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (28:57.96)
I keep getting more reassurance that it is those two in that other pack. And Ben might be working himself up towards the top of that pack, which is maybe the first goal is to become the top of that pack. But it also damn sure seems like Alex Bear feels very confident being in top, because he's the one who keeps showing up. Like he keeps showing up in the semifinals, like I'm here. And Ben has popped a few, like let's not take it away from him, Taylor's popped a few, he even made a Grand Slam final a couple years ago at the US Open, but.

Torrey (29:03.483)
Right.

Torrey (29:09.831)
Right?

Torrey (29:16.68)
That's It's true.

Alvin Owusu (29:25.886)
I look at, and we're gonna talk about Demonor against Carlos in a minute here, but Ben Shelton is 0-3 against Carlos. He's 1-8 lifetime against Yannick. Demon, 0-6 lifetime against Carlos, 0-13 against Yannick. Like, we got a lot of work to do here, fellas. And maybe that's just, it's okay. And maybe it's okay, it's okay. It's okay. I think myself, the fan, and me, like a lot of other people have been watching this tournament.

And with all the chalk that we've had, it's like, we're just waiting for the good matches. Like, okay. Well, the seeds are still here. That means it's going to get good. It's going to get good. And we're still sitting here waiting, like, it's going to get, it's going to get good, right? Right. It's going to get good. When's it going to get good? don't, I have hopes for this very Carlos match. do because very similar to the point that you made earlier about when you try to come into Carlos and Yannick the same way.

Torrey (30:05.96)
I

Alvin Owusu (30:24.234)
with the pace, they love it. They love it. It's going to take someone who's willing and able to do something different and do that different thing well. The one thing that Alex Farah does have is that serve and he can bank on that serve. That is a difference making serve. It's a different difference making tool where I think of everyone else like.

Torrey (30:24.68)
Right.

Torrey (30:42.78)
Yep, I agree with that. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (30:49.522)
I don't know, Ben's serve is difference making, but Alex's still over here hitting 20 aces in a match. It's like normal for him to hit 20 aces in a match. I don't know, I'm just a little, we're sacrificing a lot of sleep out here and I got a little return.

Torrey (30:59.919)
You know what you might be Alvin. Yeah, yeah, but I think. I think the tennis fan and you wanted to see one of them or both of them go the distance and make it be a nail biting five, right? The tennis purist in you though has to appreciate. You're we're all being shown a master class of what the next level looks like and no one. No one sent the memo to Carlos and Yannick.

to slow down and let the rest of them catch up. These two guys are picking up where they left off. These two guys are competing with each other to get to that next level. And, you know, it's like this is an honors class and the two, there's, these two guys are in the front, you know, we're talking algebra and the two guys in the front are arguing calculus with the teacher. And you're sitting there like, whoa.

When did we change subjects? You know what I mean? I thought this was, I was in honors class. You know what I mean? You you just didn't realize the guys in front of you are that much further along. You know, and I think that's what we're looking at right now, Alvin. We are, we're just being blessed to watch the other side of that as much as we don't like to see the disparity between one and three or two and three and four, buddy, it is there. And those two guys are treating us to some phenomenal ball striking and countering that we haven't seen.

in a while. think when we saw players like Nadal, Roger, even when Roger was winning three out of four slams for two or three years in a row there in the early, in the mid 2000s, he would still have an occasional scare of a set. He would still have an occasional, you know, tough match. I remember Pete's last US Open when he almost got beat by Rusetsky. I mean, he looked human.

Alvin Owusu (32:42.676)
Sure.

Torrey (32:51.62)
You know, guys were able to finally kind of catch up. my people's getting on the older side. was slam number 14 or whatever it was, but you could just see that they had finally caught up to him a little bit, right? These two guys are still young. They're still pulling away, you know? And so, you know, I feel like we're, you know, I know what you're saying as a tennis fan, as a tennis coach.

When we step back from this tournament, we start looking at the other side. And obviously when we see the final, we're going to start the only two people that are really operating at that processing speed, so to speak, are these two. They got those high dollar, what is it? The Nvidia chips. mean, they're processing speed is they're processing data centers, man. They're not processing the computer and laptop. I mean, these guys are just processing at a level that most can't inhabit.

Alvin Owusu (33:36.628)
Yeah

Torrey (33:46.082)
ever had to process at that level. And these guys, I saw a couple of points in the, I forget, Darderi's first name. Luciano, it maybe? Something like that. Luciano, right? Luciano hits some of the biggest shots in a sense, he's kind of a righty bent, right? Kind of a righty bent shot. Huge serve, big ball, nearly, not ranked as high, has some same results, but clearly a big boy and hits a big ball.

Alvin Owusu (33:57.683)
Luciano, Luciano.

Torrey (34:15.6)
felt like Yanek was so ready and I know he's a countryman and he probably had played probably no time no doubt how many times before. He was so comfortable with that big ball. I was almost hoping that Dardere would slow it down a little bit just to see if he might miss time one because the bigger he went the cleaner Yanek got with the ball. It also helped me understand what was wrong with the the Elliott Spazeri match. Elliott's ball wasn't that big Alvin and that threw off.

Yeah, a little bit. The heat had a lot to do with it. Don't get me wrong. we know Yannick has had issues with the heat before, but I'm just also talking to... What's that?

Alvin Owusu (34:52.01)
But it started early. Yeah, the big ball adjustment, the big ball adjustment or lack of big ball adjustment, you could see it from the very beginning of the match with Spazeri. Yeah.

Torrey (34:58.508)
Lack of big ol' adjustment.

And I say that to say, if you're trying to go through Yannick center, you better, you better think again. He handles your pace better than anyone I've ever seen in the history of the last, I'm going to say humbly 40 years that I've been watching tennis. He just handles pace like it is nothing. And the only reason I feel besides the heat that he had an issue with our Darrys ball, sorry, Spazier's ball.

was it was a tad slower, still deep, but a tad slower. And you get these players out that have a deep ball, but not a big ball. And your timing is just, it's milliseconds, just a tad bit off. I thought that's what Mouseti did with Novak. Novak was early on the rise as he was shanking a ball or two off that, it's just not as big, not as big as he was expecting or as big as he'd been hitting against. And that's why, or those first few games,

Alvin, he misfired. He wasn't, you know, he wasn't pissed off, frustrated yet. That came later. He was misfiring. He got to net. Like, let me just get to net real quick and finish you off real quick. And that's when Lorenzo had had a couple of tough passes. I'm just saying that to me has been the undertow of the whole, of the whole tournament, guys and girls. That deep ball, but not as big is what makes some of the top vulnerable. If they can make that ball be, they can, because it buys them an

extra second of time and these guys counter punish a term that I've used multiple times on this podcast. They counter punish so well when you don't give them the fuel to counter punish with they have to create their own pace and that's when they might go for a bit more than they thought or they lay one up and then they give you the chance right and they're now because they were just in offensive mode now you're the person able you're now able to counterpunch or counterpunch on them.

Torrey (36:56.344)
they're not always used to being in that scenario.

Alvin Owusu (37:02.378)
So I take all that and I'm with you there. I wanna go all the way back to your original point about the tennis purist and me being disappointed. It's not the tennis purist and me that is disappointed. The tennis purist and me is in awe of what these two can do. Every time I sit down to watch Yannick Sinner or Carlos Acaraz play tennis, I am going to school, right? This is.

Torrey (37:15.438)
Yup.

Torrey (37:29.593)
Mmm.

Alvin Owusu (37:30.078)
This is like, this is next level to all the things you just said. Processing, ball striking, movement, shot making, all of it. All of it is on display and it's all amazing. The part of me that's disappointed is the, is the, the fan that wants to appreciate these tournaments for a little bit of some stakes.

Torrey (37:54.807)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (37:54.91)
I want a little bit of, I want a little bit at risk. don't ever feel like, and that's why sometimes it's hard to talk about some of these matches and, and, and, and be really excited about, you know, Fabio Marijon looked really good against, against Meti. Yeah, that's great. I know it doesn't matter. I know it doesn't matter. And that's the part I want something to matter. I want to feel like there's some, there's some stakes here in the quarterfinals, quarterfinals of a grand slam or straight set matches across the board. Like, what are we?

Torrey (38:24.119)
You

Alvin Owusu (38:24.937)
Casper Ruud got a, I crept in there at one point, was around 16, but like, everyone's just getting beat down or broken. It's just like, there's no, where's the Tommy Haas to push Fed? Where's where's the, where's the Burditch that's gonna push somebody? Like that's what I'm missing.

Torrey (38:29.401)
Yeah.

Torrey (38:43.868)
don't get me started. Don't get me started. That was my whole point against my boy Lorenzo, my new B, my new bestie. That was what got me started on your boy in the first place. Here's what I don't think we fully appreciate.

Torrey (39:03.907)
20 years ago when I was coaching the top level players, we went through high-force training. And the coach tonight, Nick Saviano, shout out to Nick, led this discussion of us coaches. And he said something very, I thought very pointed at the time. He said, if you are training one of your top juniors and you're building them off a template of somebody who's currently playing, he says you've already lost.

He says, because in the next 10 years, that style will be beaten. He said, it'll be figured out. It'll be, it'll be, it'll be dissected and there'll be a new style. He says, you're better off creating the style that can beat that player and then work on that for the next 10 years. I took it to heart. I thought it was some very sage wisdom. In other words, back then it was Pete and Andre, right? Can't form a Pete.

But, me and the coach had gotten this big couple of conversations, what if you had Pete with the backhand, right? That was the whole just to become Andre with the serve and so on and so on, right? Well, what do we then get, Alvin? We got Pete with the backhand and he was from Switzerland and his name was Roger. So at the end of the day, it ended up happening. We ended up getting a better lefty. I can't say that Novak isn't a better Andre.

Hugs the ball in the line, that's just a good backhand, clean strike. He moves just as well. Again, the lefty side of things has always been a good lefty in the mix somewhere. Even way back to Rod Laver speaking of Rod Laverina. And now Nadal becomes that new phenomenal lefty. So I think my point I'm getting at is that these guys were trained as, if you will, how to be a better Federer, Nadal.

and Novak, three of the best of all time, plus one. We are them plus something extra. And now you've got as close to a perfect player as we've ever seen. And I know your point. Like you, I'm amazed. I'm absolutely amazed at the, at not just the shot making, at the shot countering, at the processing, at knowing when to go middle, knowing when to go line, knowing when to risk it, knowing when they can't.

Torrey (41:27.17)
You know, just the ability to serve and to return as well as they're doing. It's just unbelievable. And the fact that they keep getting better is, it's just mind boggling is what it is. And I feel like that's the part that we're not necessarily giving enough credit to. I get your point. It's tough to put the rest of the things at perspective that you kind of know these guys are just taking off and leaving everybody in the dust. But that in itself is also fun to see. And I think, you know, as all things do,

It'll get counted eventually. Unfortunately, it's not slowing down anytime soon, but it'll get counted eventually. And when it does, I look forward to seeing who's been at least keeping pace with that group of that three through eight in the process.

Alvin Owusu (42:13.45)
Yeah, let's do this. Let's take a little break and then we'll come back and talk a little bit about Carlos, a little bit about Alex and then Alex Vera, both Alex's actually. And then we'll also talk about what that new version of Sinner and Alcraz might look like in the future after the break.

Torrey (42:27.68)
Mm.



===== PART 2 =====

Torrey (00:00.617)
and

Alvin Owusu (00:00.846)
All right, and we're back. So, okay, so Carlos, Carlos looked pretty damn good against Demon, right? He generally does. I think we had a really good evaluation of that match beforehand and the things that Alex would need to do to have a chance to reverse the trend of I think six and over five and over going into that match against Carlos.

Torrey (00:11.166)
Very s-

Alvin Owusu (00:30.412)
He tried. He just, many have tried, many have failed. He said more or less what we talked about before the match. said, tried to do things that were way outside of my comfort zone because I had to. And you could see he was able to come up with some stuff, but the ability to come up with that stuff over the course of two and a half hours is just not within his skill set. It's not within anyone's skill set outside of

Torrey (00:32.618)
Hmm.

Torrey (00:46.772)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:00.684)
outside of the other guy and potentially Novak, you know, sometimes making that match a little bit different. But there was a little bit of jeopardy in games. Like after Carlos broke out 3-0 in that first set, right? Playing blazing, guns blazing tennis, Alex was able to hunker down, get the break back. Carlos was serving, I think, three all and down a break.

think he did face a break point in that three, four game and he looked a little gun shy, like not just a little safe, a little dinosaur army on a couple of those backhands. I think it's really interesting how little moments in the matches can impact the rest of the match, right? Alex gets that break and he's serving four, three. We're looking at a very different, potentially a very different person, right? Coming out of Carlos Zácalo's, but he gets through that game.

Torrey (01:35.815)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Torrey (01:51.305)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:57.001)
little nervy gets through that game and then all of a sudden like the wings start to flap again and he's feeling good and 30 minutes later he's in full flight doing scary stuff. Scary, scary stuff. Like going through all the gears, just touching everything.

Torrey (02:08.371)
shifting.

100%, 100%. And that was, I didn't think Carlos served that great in this match. I don't think Alex did either for that matter. think their first serve essentially both pretty low for both of their level. And that's why I think some of the return, the break chances were as high as on both sides. But I do think that there were times in that match, Alvin, when Carlos's returns were on fire. I mean, he was just, his backhand inside in on the deuce.

his forehand, his foreign deep in the corner in the ad. He has returns. He's a very, not an underrated, he's number one in the world. I don't think people have the appreciation for how big his returns can be. He returns deep, he can return short, he can take it early, he can block. He has every return and he uses them all well enough that keeps you as a server, you know, just off balance quite a bit. And I feel like the server, I know he made some technical changes.

And perhaps that's still going through a few things with that with the serve, but his returns are pretty much spot on almost all the time. And I think that's something that we don't always appreciate. And the same with the anic for that matter. The thing I think Carlos has just a little bit more pop on the serve. If you had to compare the two on that head to head without looking too far ahead. I think what I liked about the match up, Alex tried to do a lot of going back behind him.

It was very similar to the match he played in the ATP final, know, there in Saudi Arabia. I thought they were trying to do so many. He went behind him. had angles early, tried to open the court, tried to go behind him, even got to net a good bit. I thought he did all the things he knows to do, perhaps forced a bit when he did. And you got to also understand that Carlos sees him coming. I think the thing that these guys have, we use the term midichlorians, right? In the old Star Wars.

Torrey (04:07.4)
you know, vernacular. His midichlorins are so strong, he sees it when you see it. So there's no taking them by surprise. There's no, hey, let me sneak in on you real quick. No, not like that. When you thought it, I saw you. You know what I mean? And when, and I've already shut that ball down. When I would have left my racket, I knew two shots when I had to play on you and I knew the shot you didn't take. And I, I had a zinger on you on the inside end.

just because I caught you leaning one way a little too far to your left. You split up with Lil' Eight right there. That's why I had to take you down the line. They just have a level of understanding of where to go. If you're even a half second late for two shots, done. Done.

Alvin Owusu (04:49.24)
Yeah. And one of the, and one of the things that, that, that demon or does so well, and I've seen it in person a few times is he ghosts on people. would say he's, he's top, top two, top three in the world at it. Like if he sees you open up the racket face on the backhand side, he's coming. He's coming. And, but that doesn't work against Carlos because he knows that you're coming. He might show it to you and then just flip it and not

Torrey (05:06.045)
yeah. Yep.

Torrey (05:17.504)
Ha

Alvin Owusu (05:19.822)
And then not, it's annoying. It's annoying. It's so annoying that you just can't, when you can't do what you want, what you're normally doing and you have to do other things that you're not good at doing. That is, that's, that's, that's why we are where we are. so I, I don't want to, as we move forward into the, the, the last quarter, quarter final match that we saw with Zverev versus Tien, I don't want to overlook the

Torrey (05:19.931)
Ha ha ha!

Torrey (05:23.949)
really is. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (05:48.566)
this very Carlos matchup, because we talked a little bit earlier in the pod about what is the plus one version of Carlos or center. And I think the next, if I had to speculate, the next version isn't a better version of what they do. It is doing something that doesn't allow them to do what they do. The longer you stay in rallies with them, the worse off you are.

Torrey (06:15.94)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (06:16.577)
Right? You're not going to outrun them. You're not going to out hit and run them. Like hitting and running is not what you want to do against those two. You need to do something else. Assuming they're not having an off day. You need to do something else. And I think the player who is athletic enough to has the same kind of court feel court skills, but has a howitzer for serve. I'm talking

can touch 140 on spots regularly. We're not getting into these rallies. This person might even serve volley, like regularly. I think it's gonna, it's, you these things tend to be cyclical. And I think it's gonna be the person that is like, okay, well, I'm just gonna hit this thing out wide and I'm coming behind it and I've got fantastic hands. It's gonna be big serve, big hands, court feel. Like that's, I think that's the thing. And then maybe, I mean, not as, I'm not gonna go as extreme as like chipping in charge or anything, but someone who puts pressure on them.

Torrey (06:54.726)
coming circles, yeah, sure.

Torrey (07:05.264)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (07:13.129)
and forces them to come up with something special every single point. Because it ain't happening for the baseline. That's don't see it.

Torrey (07:19.716)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (07:25.814)
I don't disagree. I'm totally with you. I also feel like this is that 04 to 07 timeframe when The Mighty Fed was untouchable, right? Was it not? And I think we're in that same timeframe with these guys where it's really just their show. I mean, I know what you're saying.

Alvin Owusu (07:43.181)
What a time what a time

Torrey (07:55.91)
whether the tour catches up or they cool down or just can't keep up that long from a physical standpoint is left to be determined. I hope it's a little bit of both. Certainly hope that more three fourths the tour catches up, right? But I have said these guys are just at another level and there's nothing wrong with that. You just got to appreciate that part for what it is. But to your point about that next guy, there hasn't been at least not yet.

The lefty that can do the same thing that can serve as big and return as big. Cause that's always a little bit of a matchup. There hasn't been a, there hasn't been that, that player with the extra junk in the game. You know, your, your Fabrice Santoro type or your, you know, or your guy that can just, that can just your Marcelo Rios type that can just throw you everything you do well. He can do well and he can get you out of your game. we don't have that player yet.

Alvin Owusu (08:30.989)
Hmm.

Torrey (08:52.875)
And I don't know if any of the current players that we have are there yet either. I just feel, and I feel like we're almost in a rush to try to let Fonseca or whoever else be that person. They're not there. They're just, they're just not. They got their own, they got their own games and careers to make. It's going to be a while. You know, it really will be. And there's something wrong with that. You know what mean? This is, you know, that's why you call them the goats because they're just, they're just on a different level, Alvin. And I don't want to say that.

I don't want to say that in a way that sounds or looks like I'm conceding anything. I want to say it more as I'm celebrating that. And let's just enjoy the ride. It's a pretty cool ride right now to see these two on. And if no one shows up the next year or so, I'm okay with that. You know what mean? It's going to be some great tennis as long as these two are healthy and continue to push each other. tennis is the better for it.

Alvin Owusu (09:47.372)
Yeah, yes, five, eight, fed was different. It was a different time. And it was, it was, it was for those of you who are not old enough to have gone through that, that was wild. That was, that was, it was like this, but there was only one person. Imagine if just one person and he was doing all kinds of weird stuff and jaws dropping all the time. It was an, it was an exciting time. This is also an exciting time. I'm.

Torrey (10:08.409)
Yeah. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (10:17.055)
I'm okay with it, I'm fine with it. would, yeah, I'd like a little bit of resistance here and there, but something to look forward to before we have the thing that I don't want all of this to, like, I don't want the entire Grand Slam to hinge on these two getting to the finals. I mean, I might even, at this point, I'd be pissed if it was one of them against somebody else. Like, heaven forbid, Svaziri had,

Torrey (10:23.237)
Yeah, a little parody in it. I get you. Yeah.

Torrey (10:41.486)
Yeah, that's now there's a point right there.

Alvin Owusu (10:44.909)
Heaven forbid the temperature had risen a little slower in Spazieria and had taken Yannick out of his misery. Like, oh my god. We'd all be disappointed. So that's disappointment on top of disappointment. So this is fine. Yeah, absolutely. I am looking forward. Ask me something.

Torrey (10:51.234)
Right, Yeah.

Torrey (11:00.994)
Let's just be glad they're both here together. That's all I'm saying. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this.

Torrey (11:11.471)
Carlos pulled away from Demon mid, I'm gonna say, after that first set was too bad. He pretty much started his routine of outs. I felt like, well, I'm not gonna say my point. My question to you.

Alvin Owusu (11:21.024)
yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (11:29.71)
Carlos and Alex, Yannick and Ben.

who hung in there longer, who tactically at least matched up a little stronger as if we're comparing now that three through eight jockeying a position.

Alvin Owusu (11:55.968)
Yeah, that's not that's actually not all. Yeah.

Torrey (11:56.292)
Understand the matchups or what they are. Understand the matchups or what they're both. Carlos is a horrible matchup for Alex and Yannick is a horrible matchup for Ben.

Alvin Owusu (12:08.717)
Carlos and center are both horrible matchups for Alex. Carlos and center are bad matchups for Ben, but I'll give Ben the slight edge because he has something that Alex does not. He has the serve and the serve can get you out of some things or create opportunities. A good serving day gets you into a tiebreaker and in a tiebreaker anything can happen. Right? We saw that at French open. Ben had.

Torrey (12:32.397)
Right. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (12:37.789)
had Carlos working a little bit there in that round of 16 quarterfinal came around it was, but Ben with no serve or Ben with less of a serve is not a threat. Ben with Alex's serve, even if he's left-handed, it's not the same player. Not to say that that's not a thing we're talking about, but in this particular comparison, Ben's got a puncher's chance because he's got the roundhouse or he's got the uppercut, if you will.

Torrey (12:39.447)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey (12:47.587)
What?

Torrey (12:54.349)
Correct.

Torrey (13:04.321)
Right. Yup.

Alvin Owusu (13:07.541)
Alex is going to have to jab and you can't jab your way out of a fight with those two, with either one of them. So yeah, that's how I would see it. Not that either one of them are close, but to your question.

Torrey (13:12.556)
Right, right.

Torrey (13:19.678)
No, no, that's my question.

Alvin Owusu (13:24.373)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got a big serve and that's kind of takes me to to the Zverev, the Zverev of things. Like he has that big serve. Therefore he has a chance. You look at his record against Carlos six and six over this career. He's beaten him, beaten him plenty of times. Knows he can beat him, beat him in this tournament. He's beat him on this court. the match being outside in the middle of the day does help Carlos. He knows it. He's like, you know, he in his post-match if, if, you know, if Alex is, if Alex Zverev is going to beat him, he's going to have to sweat.

Torrey (13:36.887)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (13:54.413)
because we're gonna be out here, nobody's, no one's fitter than Carlos Ocaraz. No one is fitter than Carlos. He is made for this. So that is in his favor. I do think the match is in his favor. But again, Alex has been serving at a 70, 72 % first serves and 24 aces against TN. 77 % first serves and seven aces against Sarundalo. 72 % first serves and 16 aces against Norrie. Winning 76, 79, 78 % of points.

Torrey (13:58.166)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (14:22.892)
on first serves made like that's big boy servant. That's big boy servant. And if he brings that it's big boy and he's big boy. Yeah. Uh, now, now we also have one of the best three returners in the game on the other side. There's a little bit different story than the players he's played against thus far. Um, and those numbers are going to come down. They're, going to come down. And then what does he do? If he can commit to, if he can turn about the clock and go 20, 24, there's very rough on him and come in with conviction and

Torrey (14:24.77)
Yep. Yeah. And he's a big boy. Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (14:43.596)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (14:52.822)
be willing to close off and hope, hope Carlos is off just by a smidge, which we haven't seen in a grand slam in a while. Then yeah, I give him, give him, he's got as good a chance as anyone not named Novak. And that's why he's three in the world. That's why he's three in the world. So that's not, that's not nothing, but where do you, where do you rate, where do you rate learner TN right now? How do you feel about him?

Torrey (15:06.038)
Yep. Agree. Agree. Yep.

Torrey (15:21.602)
I feel like he's only getting better and he's good for him. He's been blessed with having a similar draw to Ozzy Opens in a row. And I feel like him having the beat on on Deneil is just been both fortunate as well as just couldn't ask for a better matchup. You know what mean? As far as somebody to beat. I was talking about, I was thinking something about Eva Jovovich, even Svetlana, you know, the way coming through golf. If there was a player for her to play, right? To knock out.

of the other four. That was the one, you know what mean? With a little bit of yips on the serve and a forehand that's still not quite trusting. know what mean? They just couldn't have matched up better, which I'm so happy for her in terms she's at me. We'll get to her later. I don't think Lerner yet in my opinion, and he showed up with this match. Alvin, he was a lucky slap forehand off of a half-hearted overhead in the breaker, you know?

from going away in three sets. He stole the breaker because quite frankly, he was down two or three service games. I think Alex blew a couple of games there. Just took his foot off the gas a little bit. And then he turned around and beat him down six, one in the third out of sheer being pissed probably that he didn't finish him off with a breaker, right? So I say that to say that let me know right there.

Alvin Owusu (16:41.514)
Hahaha!

Torrey (16:47.734)
that Lerner's not as close to the top 10 as his result may have showed, which is not Lerner's fault. It's just to say he's had an incredible tournament. I think his rise has been meteoric. I'm so happy to have him. We need more lefties out there and he's only gotten better. I was impressed. I watched most of the matches in that next gen, Alvin. We talked about this. He was not the best player in that next gen on just off of sheer firepower and everything else.

And guess who was holding the trophy when it was all said and done? Lerner Tim. So I feel like the adjustments he's making, the counter he's making, he's not just slapping the ball anymore. He's going heavy. He can still slap. He knows when to go for it, when not to. He's playing some very, his hook four and over there is looking so good. We talked about this before. I think he's only improving. Do I see him being, do I see him being a top 20 player for sure? Do I see him being top 10? Not just yet, but is he going to be a four on everybody's side?

Alvin Owusu (17:20.35)
Right, right.

Torrey (17:46.591)
this year, 100%. Do I see him being a top 10 player in the next couple of years? I do, because I feel like he's only gonna continue to improve and what he doesn't have right now, he could still get, know, and that being a serve. So I think the young man is gonna be, his future is very, very bright. And, you know, you don't wanna put those kinds of things on him just yet, but he's the kind of player that if he develops a serve, Novi didn't have a serve his first three or four years on the tour, you know what I Didn't have one at all. And the guy's got a pretty good serve now.

So if he's one of those kind of players like, you know, like Novak who continues to develop those kinds of those parts of his game, he's got everything else, you know, and to me, if he's hanging with this level and beating this level and he doesn't have all the weapons, look out when he gets one or two, one or two more and get some upgrades. This, watch out because he's gotten good without.

Alvin Owusu (18:36.3)
When you, right, and when you look at the like kind of nuanced differences in the two lefties that we're talking about, Ben Sheldon and Lerner Tien, Lerner has something that is, it's hard to put your finger on unless you know what you're looking for. He has complete control of the tennis ball. Complete control of the tennis ball. When that ball leaves his strings, he knows within a very fine margin of where that ball's going.

He has, can, he can load on that left leg and it's not a, not a full aggression. It is, I'm going to hit that ball to that spot and I will change. will make a slight change, right. And I will make a slight change and I will hit the ball to that spot. He has control of his hands on both sides. And that is what you want to layer pace on top of. Ball control, high processing.

Torrey (19:14.496)
Right. At this speed.

Torrey (19:24.682)
Yep. They're great.

Alvin Owusu (19:35.59)
knows how to win tennis matches, thinks his way through tennis matches, add the other stuff on top of it. lot easier to add the pop. It's very hard to add the control. And I think that is the thing that makes me feel very, I'm very bullish on Leonard Tien over the next three to five years. It doesn't feel like it right now. That it doesn't feel like it right now that he has any business.

Torrey (19:37.78)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey (19:48.938)
But

Torrey (19:58.4)
Don't ruin that.

Torrey (20:02.72)
I think it does.

Alvin Owusu (20:04.541)
near those two, maybe two, this is a very, this is a very in-depth and nuanced podcast that we, that we run here.

But I could see him going right around some of those other guys and being right there. Because he receives pace well. He changes pace well. He's in control of the tennis ball. And I think that's what you need to be able to do to find opportunities to then step up and create something out of nothing in very tight spaces. Because those two at the top of the game don't give you any space. You got to find it. You got to find it.

Torrey (20:15.549)
Yeah. Yep. Yep. For sure. For sure.

Torrey (20:36.128)
And again, I mentioned earlier, the lefty side of things. We don't have a lefty right now that can do that. Right? I'm telling you. And I didn't want to reference learning what I was saying, but I was saying somebody like him, I just think we're still a bit early in that conversation. It'll be somebody like him though, that has that level of, I'm only getting better. I'm a work in progress. I'm not a complete masterpiece yet.

Alvin Owusu (20:50.355)
It's early, it's early.

Torrey (21:05.737)
There's still lot of things you can add on to me, so to speak. And I think he's just only getting better. I also feel like numerically, there are six of those top tens that are gonna, they've already started to drop, that will continue to drop, right? I see that top 15s that will start to drop out of there. You know, the Rublevs, the Mevdevs, you know, they're gonna continue to only drop out and continue to go a little further south. Unfortunately, Hoganruna, you know, has not been here, obviously due to his injury and others there.

There are some others that will start to kind of go by the wayside. I think we've all kind of seen that, you know, players like Mahatch have already kind hit their ceiling a little bit of what they get, they may or may not be able to do. So you're right. He will definitely swim upstream past those players if he hasn't already. But I just feel like then comes the hard part of maintaining that, right? And then being able to post those level of consistent.

Results at some of the bigger tournaments, which is why I think physically he will have to go into that role He's we've seen players like Arthur Feast who struggled with the physical demands Yaka, Mentsen who showed what the physical demands of being that level player who are also fairly young not to mention the older Used to be young up-and-comers like you know Felix and players who are who've been out there who just now kind of hitting their prime even even players like him and bublic So I feel like their tennis is a marathon not a sprint and I feel we are

We're early in the game for Mr. Lerner. I think his future is very, very bright. As I say, top 20 this year for sure. Top 10 next year for sure. think he's going to be there all day. He is doing so much with so little. I don't mean that he doesn't have any weapons at all, but what he's so solid without a clear huge weapon, if he were to add or to continue to hone one, it will only upgrade what he's doing.

Alvin Owusu (22:58.539)
Yeah, and to your point about the lefties, we're also missing Jack Draper right now. There's your lefty of the big serving variety that I mentioned earlier, right? So it's there. We just need it in one person. We need it all in one.

Torrey (23:05.246)
Right. Right.

Torrey (23:12.504)
Right. you know, three of them healthy, all three of healthy and in the same tournament. You know what mean? Because let's face it, Jack is five, was five in the world when he won Indy Wells last year, you know, and it really hadn't been, hadn't been healthy since. So to your point, they're all three kind of different, very different lefties. You know what I mean? From the side of things that I think, hey, having that many lefties in the mix is always going to throw a monkey wrench in things. And so as the English would say, a spanner in the works. So I love seeing all those guys.

Alvin Owusu (23:40.093)
Spanner in the word.

Torrey (23:41.469)
I'd love to see all those guys back, get them healthy again. I think it's going to be a good year. mean, it's already turned out to be a pretty good term here. Looking forward to it.

Alvin Owusu (23:52.492)
Okay, let's, before we call it, let's, you feel like this is Carlos in Yannick part, where are we now? I don't even remember. Five, six, I don't know. French, Wimby, US, four.

Torrey (24:06.398)
I'll just let's just call the 2026 version that this is the 2026. This will be like Fast and Furious. It's only gonna they're only gonna continue to get stronger and better and faster cars and more explosions. They are, you know, I mean, you can't whether you've seen one or not, you know, you the next one's always taken up a notch. I mean, I don't feel like I don't feel like either of these guys are playing poorly. You know what I mean? So I

Alvin Owusu (24:16.587)
More ridiculous.

Torrey (24:34.199)
I just want to enjoy it. Yes, I think that's what we're up against. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it isn't, but to your point, we're at this point in the tournament now. We're at the business end of this thing now. I really am looking forward to seeing the two of them get tested, test each other and kind of see what this iteration looks like.

Alvin Owusu (24:57.001)
Yeah, I am not overlooking Alexander's Verov. There's something about this match that makes me go, yeah, it's probably Carlos in three or four, remember that big serve, that big serve. The last part on Carlos and Janik though, if they were to meet in the finals, we've had, in the French Open, they both got to great tennis at the same time and we got a great match, Wimbledon, was Maxon, balling his ass off, right? He hit the roof.

Torrey (25:23.741)
I'll use that.

Alvin Owusu (25:26.795)
in that match, US Open, Carlos hit the roof, right? And it's too good. So we've had a classic, we've had two players, both guys playing at their peak and the other one just couldn't touch him that day. Maybe the fourth iteration is something that we can put in the annals and say, I don't know, I don't know what we say. I don't have words left. That means we should probably end the podcast now. I'm Alvin, that's Tori.

Torrey (25:47.505)
Yeah.

Torrey (25:53.519)
Yeah

Alvin Owusu (25:56.032)
best of three, we are out.