Ep. 06: WTA 2025 Preview - The Future Is Bright

Alvin Owusu (00:01.602)
Hey guys and welcome back to another episode of Best of Three. A little bit different start today. TH was on a bit of a heater before we got going, so we've got a nice little rolling start to open up today's conversation. Thanks for rocking with us and enjoy the show.

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Torrey Hawkins (00:04.792)
So tennis is a microcosm of life. We have seen the millennials in my opinion, and this, I'm gonna call it, know, the generation after that, I'm gonna call it Gen Z for lack of a better term, that in my opinion has lacked the wherewithal to be, to have the same work ethic and to be as hungry as past champions.

I'm talking tennis, but of course, my Cosmo black is also very apparent. It used to be that a player was only deemed a true champion if they could defend the same plan they won. It used to be a player was only crowned a future great when they had beaten the future great. Handily, some would say.

And then pass that torch and then went on to win what the great had done. I feel like we're in a role now. We're in a level now where if that player does good, has a good win against that player, we're dawning praise. We're heaping accolades and quite frankly, in my opinion, way too soon, giving out the contracts, the the various sponsorships that, you know, that beget a top player.

And my problem with that is as you start seeing these players start to fade one, two, three years in, you really start to miss that former top player whose level of play transcended the actual tennis calendar. I know we're going to venture more into the WTA today instead of more the ATP, but once again, I'd be remiss not to mention Serena and the post-goat era and some notes that I was

Torrey Hawkins (02:00.494)
writing down myself in preparation for this. thought that WTA is about three to five years ahead of the men's game in the post-goat era and how it's reeled in a sense for two or three years. You have to throw the pandemic gear in there, but that's an unfortunate benchmark because let's face it, Serena was getting older on that time. I looked it up. Her first slam was 1998. So you look at that 20 year, arguably 22 year span, which is phenomenal.

first of all, if she had done what she did in 12 years, we'd still be astounded. The fact that she was relevant 18 years, post-child, I mean, it was just, that puts her in the category of the Avangu Lagongs and the others who were just otherworldly. And then that she was still relevant at 40, playing against kids literally half her age was just, you can't say enough about it. But for now, enough about Serena.

Alvin Owusu (02:34.733)
Right, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (02:58.513)
What does that mean for the player sense? And I look at that 2021 final and I'll cue up here. Layla Fernandez and Emma Rotacondo had a phenomenal tournament. I mean, just played their butts off. Look, look good. You saw the future of tennis coming in to play in the focus. This is what tennis is going to be like. We're at tennis in good hands. mean, they just played their way to the final.

had a great final. mean, the girls were just were just playing ball happy in the moment, just feeling themselves and just you saw raw talent and energy and youth. It's been three plus years since we've seen Rodo Cano and Fernandez in a final, let alone a semi or even a quarter to my to my, brief overview of a grand slam. And so then the question

my my my handoff to you what's with the youth in the game one number two post-goat era is there a two or three year skid while they the players find themselves number three going forward the vacuum has now filled I'll borrow a term from you the matrix has been reloaded and now where are we going for

Alvin Owusu (04:26.491)
You know, I really, I really, I'm really excited about this topic. You know, I think we spend a lot of time talking about, about men's tennis and men's tennis tends to get a lot of the, a lot of the air time, a lot of the space when we're talking about tennis, especially professionally. But like right now, to your point about the women's game being maybe three to four years ahead of the men's game, I find myself more interested, especially earlier on in majors with what's going on in the women's tournament.

it's mostly because there are so many different players or characters that are right there and able to make a run, right? There's so much more opportunity for the unknown, for the unbelievable on the women's side, where there really just is no room for that on the men's side. And as a tennis fan, it makes it more fun to watch. It makes it almost more fun to follow. But to your point about...

We know we were gonna, we're gonna talk a little bit today about, you know, some of the, some of the themes and trends we saw this year on the WTA side and what we think that means moving forward into the new year. The dearth of players under the age of 21 ranked inside the top 50, right? That's kind of the, I think that's the thing that really jumped out to both of us as we're looking back on this year. You can take the Grand Slam champions out of it for this, for this, for this particular conversation right now, but.

You mentioned Ratakanu and you mentioned Fernandez, the two finalists from the US Open Final. I mean, you could even put in Bianca Andrescu into that conversation, 2019 winner.

Torrey Hawkins (06:07.859)
100 % Where's she been?

Ben Chinch, Ben Chinch the same, around the same, know, who did a hoot.

Alvin Owusu (06:17.31)
Well, mean, just a little bit older. She didn't. What is she final 2020 something? She didn't win it. But, you know, I think it's. Yeah, well, quick one on Belinda, though. She, she was out all this year. She had a kid. She just came back. She played in a 125 this week. So yeah, she's maybe maybe we'll see Belinda popping out of here in, in 2025. But I think it's I think with both of those two players, the two finalists from the 2021 US Open.

Torrey Hawkins (06:22.416)
Yeah. My point is, and haven't heard much from her since, was more to my point.

Torrey Hawkins (06:32.412)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (06:45.628)
I think it's important that prior to the both of them arriving in that final, I think is a bit of an anomaly. I don't think it has much to do with the tennis, you know, kind of at large. think it had to do with some weird things that happened in that tournament. I don't remember exactly who Emma played in the first round, but she almost didn't get out of the first round. I want to say she might've snuck past Donna Vekich in like a

a weird first round match that she had no business winning. Because obviously she came through qualities, right? Qualified into the main draw, caught some kind of weird win in the first round. I mean she won the match, all hats off to her. And then just went on a heater, right? Six more wins and then that's it. And then Layla, Layla had a more traditional tough...

Torrey Hawkins (07:18.791)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (07:40.926)
underdog kind of upset after upset. I think she beat Serena in that tournament actually. Maybe in the quarters or around the 16 something like that.

Torrey Hawkins (07:45.245)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (07:50.245)
You could even argue that she peaked early and had a, in my opinion, favorite going in of the two.

Alvin Owusu (07:59.738)
Sure, mean she was ranked around 50 at the time when she went to that tournament like and Emma was nowhere right Emma came through qualities So I would say as opposed to what have the two of them done since then I think it's more of a Take the outlier out Look at their careers without that without those two to three weeks. And what are we talking about? Well, I don't think one we're talking about either one of them Because neither one of them did anything prior really

Torrey Hawkins (08:02.845)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (08:23.155)
Thank you.

Right. And certainly not hints.

Alvin Owusu (08:27.898)
I mean, Emma had a pretty good, and has not done nothing since, right? mean, for various different reasons, Emma has faced a lot of injuries, but I think the injuries might be indicative of what the cost is to perform at this level on a consistent basis, right?

Torrey Hawkins (08:44.829)
Also, like a lot of young players overhauled her whole coaching staff at that time, know, pulled a pulled on here now, you know, I'll be calling the shots from now on, which a lot of young players tend to do and end up in my opinion, put themselves in their careers and some tailspins and just for whatever reason, I think that that calls for at least a year, you know, just going through two or three coaches and trying to kind of get her team right again, long story and we don't know what was brewing behind the scenes to that point. Michael also

Alvin Owusu (09:13.032)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (09:14.569)
fired his coach after the first championship and he did okay. You know what mean? Doug Collins is a great coach, but at some point, Inter Phil Jackson, right? And we see five more rings on the finger. So I understand sometimes a coaching change is needed. I just getting back to the players. My question more for you is, is youth more served?

Alvin Owusu (09:17.79)
It worked out.

Torrey Hawkins (09:42.521)
Or is it really that 25 through 28, 28 through 30 that players are starting to peak now in this era again, post-goat. And my bigger question is who has the matrix has reloaded? Who are those big on the rivalries? You know, we've talked with us before the rival restarted to kind of show themselves. Is it really EGA and arena and everybody else is a contender in that top 10?

and then everybody else is just playing for a good tournament.

Alvin Owusu (10:13.839)
Yeah, I mean, I wanna unpack the first part first, right, about the why we might be seeing, why do I think we're seeing this? It's hard for the young ones to break in, especially into the top, the upper echelons of women's tennis. And I think kind of going back to what we mentioned about Serena, really, I think that is the lasting legacy that she has is the way that she changed the women's game.

to where power is no longer a tool, a weapon, it's a requirement, right? And when you're coming out of the, you know, the times when a Martina Hingis could kind of craft her way through or Caroline Wozniacki could defend her way to a grand slam, that just doesn't, that's not the case anymore. You have to be able to hurt and quite likely off both wings to,

Torrey Hawkins (10:57.268)
All right.

Torrey Hawkins (11:09.609)
Yep. And have a surf. Right? Yep.

Alvin Owusu (11:12.316)
and have a serve, right? So that's the Serena trifecta, right? Yeah, mean, add a couple feathers to your cap if you can actually pinch one off at the net here every now and again. But I think that's the part, that's the long lasting Serena legacy is like this is now what's required because a lot of young girls came up watching her and saying, this is how I want to play. And then you got to get fast enough to do it, right? Your feet got to defend your own shots.

Right, so they're training for this. And now we're seeing that if you can't provide that level of firepower, and this is the important part, think, week in and week out over time, right? Because tennis is a very grueling sport. And some at the age of 16 or 17, like Amira Andriva, right? Can she, I mean, one, she doesn't have that much firepower yet. She hasn't filled into her full frame yet.

Torrey Hawkins (11:53.258)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (12:07.158)
Sure. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (12:07.328)
but then also asking her still growing and maturing body to then do it for 40 weeks out of the year, man, that's a hard ask. It's probably as hard for someone at the age of 17 to do it as is for someone at the age of 40 to do it.

Torrey Hawkins (12:22.487)
And yet Sharapova did it. So I come back to, I come back to, our, no question, but unfortunate for Drava, the benchmark and the benchmark high, you know, it doesn't hurt that she was six foot two and had, you know, and was, as you say, still going into her very long and very powerful frame, you know.

Alvin Owusu (12:29.429)
SharePost is the hall of fame though.

Torrey Hawkins (12:52.215)
But, you know, arguably Maria was faster at 17, you know, when she first got on the scene and was more powerful and slower, let's face it, as she got older and more composed and was more accurate. I don't want to go down too much of memory lane, but one, Jennifer Capriotti at 14, you know, reached the semis of Wimby and then took a three or four year, or five year hiatus from tennis.

right and then came back and did again, got to stage. So we understand, I guess the point I'm making is it's not out of, it's not out of question to say it can't be done. It's been done in a recent history. It's just to say fewer are doing it now. And I get, get, was a strength coach for many years as well. I get the demands of the sport more than most. I get the level of so much more physical now more than I get that way more than most. I simply say,

A lot of these younger players are still on the TBD list to me more than they are true contenders. and mind you still marinating, still getting good, you know, I hate keeping praise before it's due. And I hate keeping expectations even worse before they're truly apropos. Cause that can be the death knell of a player, but they're all of sudden supposed to be at this level. And let's be honest, it wasn't as to your point. It was just a good two weeks of tennis.

You know, and that that may be hard duplicate, you know, until they are ready and show that they can do it again. You know, Becker did this early, early in his career, one back to back Wembe's Becker's game wasn't ready. He wasn't. He was still a kid. You know, he was still a kid with diving on the corporate volleys. You know, we see it now as a thing. But Becker didn't win a grand slam somewhere else. I want to say five to seven years later. Now, he was still a good player during that time. But wasn't this fast, wasn't this unorthodox?

Alvin Owusu (14:23.541)
right.

you

Torrey Hawkins (14:46.189)
People were getting his game back. He had developed backhand. He had developed returns, you know, and so, and the game was changing while all around him. I have to say there's another good example player that grew into his very large and very powerful frame that had to figure out how to play this game, you know, aside from from a one hit or one, and let's face it, a one shot and one surface wonder.

Alvin Owusu (15:01.302)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (15:07.713)
And that's the, to borrow a phrase from the great Northeastern philosopher, one Sean Carter, you know, made it a hot line, I made it a hot song. You can put together a good two weeks, you know, and that's why we see the, you can pop up and Bianca Andreescu can win a Grand Slam.

Torrey Hawkins (15:15.03)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (15:26.919)
And then Marotta Kahnu at age, what was she 18, 19, went to Grand Slam. Laila Fernandez was 19 at the time when that final occurred, got there. But to do it over the course of 12 months and then find yourself here at the end of the year, inside the top 50, inside the top 20, that's a much different ask. And I think that goes back to what you're talking about.

And that's, know, that's just kind of the big takeaway that I've seen this year. And it's starting to solidify, you know, of the four ladies. think there are four ladies who are, you know, under the age of 21, ranked inside the top 50. Obviously there's Coco. We talked about Mira a little bit. Linda Nosková, she took out Eega in Australia, didn't really do much outside of that. and then Dina Schneider.

Torrey Hawkins (16:18.701)
Yep, Have saw very little ever. I think I saw the maybe one match I didn't Russian girl, right? I think she's I've seen I've seen a little bit of her. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (16:18.88)
Do you know much about Schneider? I like, I like,

Alvin Owusu (16:27.807)
Yeah, yeah, she, she went to she went to North Carolina State. She's an NC State wolf pack, a wolf pack a wolf of the wolf pack, you know, level lefty. And I'm partial, I'm partial. But yeah, so that's, that's, that's, that's kind of, I think that outside of the, you the

Torrey Hawkins (16:33.719)
Okay. Wolfpack, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (16:41.026)
Yeah, you like these lefties, don't you? Yeah, yep.

Alvin Owusu (16:52.887)
the big hitters, the top of the class, if you will, and we'll get them next. Those are kind of the things that I see. It's like there are these, there's this group of, I think it's a very actually tidy group of about 10 women at the top of the game right now that you could almost bank on. And that's one of the, like I mentioned earlier, watching a Grand Slam on the women's side, I get to kind of peek around the first few days to see what the interesting matchups are, because they have Grand Slam champions littered all over the place.

Because I gotta know, once it gets to the business end, you're gonna see a lot of these ladies there. And you're getting a little bit of maybe the best of both worlds, right? Of the top 10 players, you assume you're gonna see six in the quarters, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.

Torrey Hawkins (17:22.797)
Right?

Torrey Hawkins (17:30.148)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (17:39.951)
Yep. Yep. Yep. If they all last that long and, and take me back briefly, my other matrix reloaded question in your, in your opinion, I like we're trading places today. The, the matrix has reloaded. I would submit Eega and Arena have in a sense, the dust is starting to settle in a sense. They have now said it's our game.

Alvin Owusu (17:48.203)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Hehehehehe

Torrey Hawkins (18:10.084)
The rest of your playing catch up. And I know that anybody could beat me, but it's becoming far and far less likely that it will happen. Could, yes. Will, not so sure. There's less blood in the water. Zabalink has gotten her mind right. Eagle is always tough to beat. I don't care who you were, what time of the day it was, on any surface. And now that

is starting to express that dominance, starting to get confident with herself and not fighting against herself. I feel she is one of, with all, if anything, she's you know, she's the Ivan Drago, so to speak, of Serena. She's just everything. She's taller. She's a little, just a tiny bit stronger, maybe not as fast, especially in early days when Serena, but has, it's everything just as well, if not a little bigger.

Alvin Owusu (18:45.912)
Right, yeah, that's a big one.

Torrey Hawkins (19:08.58)
So for her to be calm and for her to be locked in, buddy, it's her match to lose. that said, with that said, now again, and that top five contender list is deep. mean, Jessupagula is nobody's slouch and I want to say career high number three. mean, the girls got, is a solid of a player against anyone any day of the week as it comes.

Alvin Owusu (19:15.393)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (19:25.197)
It's.

Torrey Hawkins (19:36.816)
Coco just won the open last year and quite frankly to some a disappointing year to me pretty good follow up year for an unbelievable year still in the conversation still won a couple of titles at the high level still still still won your championship to my point certainly not a bad year and now you're looking at especially if you look through the context of Robert Cano and Fernandez so I say to you and we haven't even talked about

Alvin Owusu (19:47.852)
Year-end championship. that?

Torrey Hawkins (20:03.898)
Vondrsova who won Bimbi a year or so ago, haven't even talked about Mokhova, we haven't talked about, but who was the other young lady, Zhang? I mean, we haven't talked about players that are legitimate players that could win Indian Wells or Miami or tomorrow. So that to me is a pretty tough list. So the matrix has been reloaded. My question, is it Eega and Arena?

Do the contenders have a real chance of knocking them out their perch and making this a three, four woman race? Who else am I missing in the contenders that you think under the radar? And I know you probably gonna say Navarro, which I love. Is there another player that could come through and bring the wrecking ball?

Alvin Owusu (20:54.756)
Yeah, okay, so let's start from the top about who's in the party, right? At the top of women's tennis, I'm gonna go ahead and start from what I believe is, and I say this with all respect, and I'm gonna give myself a chance to unpack it here, Coco Gough has set the floor so high because on her worst day, she's still able to semi-final a grand slam.

Torrey Hawkins (21:01.36)
Yup, yup.

Alvin Owusu (21:23.768)
She can play bad tennis and still beat all but maybe three people in the world. And she can play bad tennis and still maybe beat two of those three. It's just that she has a, if they're off a little bit, right, she can bring you down into the mud and she will, if it gets into the mud, she's better off there than let's say, Irina is, right? And I think their record reflects that. They're four and four against each other, which is.

Torrey Hawkins (21:23.996)
On our worst day, four or five in the world.

Torrey Hawkins (21:36.924)
on their lesser day.

Torrey Hawkins (21:53.361)
Sure. Right.

Alvin Owusu (21:53.927)
kind of startling all things considered, but not so much when you think about what she does so well as far as how well she moves, how well she can defend and even hurt on that backhand side. And she's starting to get to the point where it's not the forehand that's gonna kill her, that serve's starting to get a little bit wonky, but I mean she put it together well at end of the year. I think Coco is the floor and the floor is like three or four in the world, right? That's the cutoff right there.

Above that is where it starts to get surface and matchup dependent, I think between EGA, Arena, and let us not forget, Elena Rabacuna, right? And I think Rabacuna, her health, assuming it was a health issue, not some weird stuff going on with her coach issue last year, but she's now working with Goran, feeling good, coming into the new season. That's the one that, Rabacuna is,

Torrey Hawkins (22:42.845)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (22:54.128)
Sabalenka's foil, right? She's the only person on the tour that can legit just take the racket out of her hands. Many times has beaten her two and two. it's, it's a very, it's like, I see you over there and I can, I can take your, she can take Arena's hardest, most quality hit ball and send it back to the other corner with no problem whatsoever. With dead eye, with dead eyes and no sweat. Like just doesn't care.

Torrey Hawkins (22:56.957)
Yep, I would agree with that.

Torrey Hawkins (23:16.551)
Ron. Yup. Yup.

Alvin Owusu (23:22.918)
The arena and EGA part of it is you can, there are two women in the world that can just hit EGA off the court on the right surface and that's arena and, and Elena Arbacca, right? But how often do we get those surfaces? Not all that often.

Torrey Hawkins (23:40.414)
Not as often, not as often, not certainly more represented in the slams than in the season.

Alvin Owusu (23:46.394)
Exactly. Exactly. So and then that leaves Ego with, you know, currently reigning supreme on clay and being able to kind of dust it up with anybody that as long as as long as the clay isn't a weird scenario like like Madrid where it's really fast or okay, so she she yeah and blue one year and then she also I mean she also was

Torrey Hawkins (24:03.486)
Madrid.

Blue. And blue on the edge.

Alvin Owusu (24:12.476)
down match points to Naomi Osaka in the first round of the French Open this year, roof closed, Fast. It's very unique situations like that where you can't get her, but she got out of it, right? And then obviously Cocoa just doesn't have anything to hurt her, so she handles Cocoa pretty well. So that's the thing about the women's side right now, especially at the top. And that's not even to get into, like, know, Barbara Krishnickova did win another Grand Slam this year.

Torrey Hawkins (24:16.818)
Right, right, right.

Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (24:42.408)
because she can pop off and do that when she wants to.

Torrey Hawkins (24:48.8)
Krakov to me is a lot like Vondrousova. They just so streaky and when they're on there, you just don't play their style very often. Another lefty for your, you know, Vondrousova who I really liked her game. And because she was so freewheeling off that side, I don't think many people had played a player that was taking so many chances. And I'm so happy it worked out for her. It's, I say not to take your point.

Alvin Owusu (24:59.719)
Hehehehehe

Torrey Hawkins (25:18.559)
Are they true contenders for grand slams? Clearly for some 1000s, clearly to beat them on the head to head.

Are they contenders for slams this year? Which to me, I think is great. I think it only helps the women's tennis, the parody of the game. I think Coco is certainly of that calendar. I think Rabakina is certainly right there. I think all the players you mentioned, 100%. I'm curious about the number you said. You said after four. And I'm thinking, okay, let's take Eega and Arena out. Are there four? And are...

Alvin Owusu (25:58.069)
if you take them out.

Torrey Hawkins (25:59.725)
Right. And or five that and I mean true contenders have done it. I've done it head to head. Are there that we can look to this year and and give and could win the Grand Slam and are there one or two more that have not yet that could and that's what I'm calling the in the viral category. I think the year just ran out before she had time to really kind of get going. Had there been two more slams or the year continued, you know, when it when it ended, I think she was on pace to do some damage.

Alvin Owusu (26:07.922)
and say, could win a Grand Slam.

Torrey Hawkins (26:28.402)
And we'll see. Can she now crank it up again? My question though, give me the four or five and then are there two others, if not more in your opinion?

Alvin Owusu (26:38.695)
Yeah, so okay, so you have Egan and Irina, right? So there's two off the table right there. Rebacca has done it before, I think she can do it again. At that point you have Coco, which I think Coco will, let's put it this way, one out of every eight slams I think Coco's gonna get one. Maybe one out of six. She's not bang on for, yeah, maybe one out of five, one out six somewhere there. Not one a year, but like every other year she should be picking up one.

Torrey Hawkins (26:46.676)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (26:56.052)
Yep. I would say I would say more than that, but I agree with you. Yep. Right. I think I think that's more where I'm thinking.

Alvin Owusu (27:08.423)
And then after that, think, feel like we're, Jesse Pagula, feel like she.

I don't think she's got enough firepower to get through seven matches of doing what she needs. And I don't know, I can't really explain why I feel this way. Obviously she got through her quarterfinal barrier at the US Open. She got through her ego problem at the US Open and then made it all the way to the final and yeah, yeah she did. But I just feel like that was her chance probably. But I don't see her.

Torrey Hawkins (27:33.941)
Yeah. That's mantled ego at the open on my dad. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (27:44.053)
Yeah, maybe that was her Dominique team, know, Zverev open, you know, for her to win and perhaps, you know, may not see many of those opportunities coming forward. I personally think Pugula has the firepower for sure. I question.

As I've always questioned the athleticism to hang at that level. I question does is father time catching up to Jessica. One of the best American players in a long time has has been as gritty as solid as tell me what I can't do. I'll prove you that I can't. I mean doesn't need the money has played has played through surgeries injuries has come back from

I want to say she's had two knee surgeries, a back surgery. mean, the girl does not need to play. Her kids don't have to, her kids' kids don't have to work. And she's out there grinding one of the toughest sports of all time. I mean, and through injury, and continues to do it on her own because she can't. I mean, I could not be more. I've met Jessica years and years ago. A good friend of mine was a coach. you remember Adam Gussky and Anne's the Cargill. Probably have some compatriots of yours during the Academy days. So.

Alvin Owusu (28:39.839)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (29:03.223)
They were instrumental in her when she was first getting out there on tour before Michael Joyce and so on. So I know, I know just well and could not be more proud of her. anything I'm saying is completely on a surface level of just looking at X's and O's here. I think that if anybody has my vote to win on an emotional note, it's Jessica Bullock, it's Jessica Bullock, even over Coco, the yearner right here, just because of my personal relationship with her. But that said, looking at

Alvin Owusu (29:17.483)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (29:31.542)
The window may be closing simply because of age. The window might be closing simply because now you're a step slower. We've never thought of Jessica as fast. Now we're in a situation where she may be hitting herself out of her own coverage area. And that gets tough. But I think you're going to have to take it from Jessica. She's not going to give it to you. There are four that can on a given day more, on a given day, there's four that can do it routinely now.

But those same four, she does have wins again. So it's one of those things where I think she's certainly in the contender category, to be sure. My question is, are there two more that I'm missing? And if so, who are they?

Alvin Owusu (30:15.507)
Yeah, so from my standpoint, earlier you quickly mentioned Carolina Mohova, right? I'm gonna go on record right here. I've said it to many people who know me, know me privately. She is my favorite tennis player to watch and that is hands down. I like watching her more than I like watching Carlos Arcarazin. Everyone knows how much I like. I love watching Carolina Mohova play tennis. She plays the tennis that I dream about playing.

Torrey Hawkins (30:36.567)
Wow. Wow.

Wow. And she's not even a lefty. Wow. Wow. That's huge for you, Alvin. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (30:44.32)
She's not even a lefty. Girl, that woman is so smooth. She is so smooth. She is the female incarnation.

Torrey Hawkins (30:51.629)
She's the reincarnation of Chris Everett. She's every time I see her, she's Chris Everett in a dead ring or doppelganger, whatever you call it. Every time I look at her, I'm like, God, Chris Everett had an illegitimate child back in the day. They don't want to nobody. Every time I see her.

Alvin Owusu (31:05.517)
My issue with Mooks is that when she does have a big match problem, she has this horrible record in finals. She'll wow you and amaze you all the way there, but when it's time to cut the check, she's kind of like Alice Jabbour, right? Where all that magic kind of dries up when it's time to make balls and then step up and finish points, you know what I mean?

Torrey Hawkins (31:20.151)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (31:29.985)
I was just gonna say it, Ahn's had that exact situation before in a tournament that was hers in the making, at Wimby. You know, I completely agree. Here's.

So, Mohova is or is not in your contender list. Let me go back to my question.

Alvin Owusu (31:45.143)
She's not in my contender list. Because I think winning is a skill. Winning championships is a skill. You've talked about this briefly in other episodes that we've done that you've talked about Ivan Lindell's finals record, right? He lost a lot in finals. Now eventually he started figuring it out, right? But I think winning in finals is a skill.

Torrey Hawkins (31:47.044)
Ugh.

Torrey Hawkins (32:08.356)
and continue to get there.

Alvin Owusu (32:12.878)
And she is she's no spring chicken either. think she's 28 or 29. So while the that that peak range for it seems to be on the women's tour right now is kind of 24 to 28. For people for people to hit their peaks, she's kind of getting towards the back end of it. She's had some injuries, she so on and so forth. So while I enjoy the I enjoy the show, like I'll I'll cancel things to watch Carolina Mahova play tennis. Am I putting my money on it? No.

Torrey Hawkins (32:16.782)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (32:29.292)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (32:36.612)
Yeah, right, yeah, she's so smooth. Right, you're buying the ticket to watch, you're not placing a side bet on the match.

Alvin Owusu (32:41.825)
I'm not putting my money on it, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (32:50.187)
Yeah, Queen Win is the other one that is the one that if she gets the right draw, like, as in if she doesn't have to go through Arena Sabalinka, because she's got a Sabalinka problem, I think she's the one that can win a Grand Slam. Like, I think she can. Of the ones who have not won one, I think she's the next up to win one.

Torrey Hawkins (33:00.889)
Right. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (33:06.361)
Yup. Yup.

Torrey Hawkins (33:12.001)
I think she, she might be outside of Coco. She might be an, I still call her a bikini. She might be the next sleeper right below the surface of the water that will just literally punish you through sheer lack of errors, accuracy, and will not miss a ball. And you're, and you, and you will pay for a loose game period. And she will not give it back to you.

Alvin Owusu (33:35.981)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (33:41.741)
And so I like that. like her level of play. like her, I like her, her tenacity in the court, covering the court pretty well. You know what I mean? In a, a, in a very, in a very, and I hate if I sound any ways old school or, or, you know, or even quasi racist, but you've never seen a ton of athletic Chinese people in terms of just losing speed, power and agility. And she moves very well.

Alvin Owusu (33:49.036)
Yeah, yeah, was pretty well.

Alvin Owusu (34:07.148)
Right. Fair.

Torrey Hawkins (34:10.918)
I mean, just almost, dare I say, very fluid, know, not just fast and not just efficient, which to me is almost little bit of a dig. She is very fluid around the court and quite frankly, very comfortable with anybody's ball, with the exception of when the rally gets bigger, you know, against a person like Sabalinka that can bring it and hit through her, you know what mean? Which is a skill only a few people can do consistently to matter.

You know what I mean? So that's another talk show.

Alvin Owusu (34:41.527)
Yeah, the issue that she's gonna run into here is that her, she seems to be about the fifth best player in the world. mean, her combined record against Sabalanka, Swiatek, Goff, and Rebecca, if I can do quick math, is like one in 13. Like that's, it's, yeah, it needs work. It needs work. So that's her task. That's her next level to get into that, competing on the last few days of a Grand Slam.

Torrey Hawkins (34:54.49)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (35:11.376)
You know, and so it's fun right now, it's fun. Kind of moving away from the ones that we think are gonna be challenging for Grand Slams next year. We did briefly talk about Mira Andriva, we talked about Karolina Mohova a little bit about Dina Schneider. Are there any other players that you are excited to watch that caught your eye this year?

Torrey Hawkins (35:38.81)
I knew her from before when she played junior tennis here in the South. Before she went up, she was her parents that had bought the love to play the LTP Academy. They moved it there and just her and her brother were both very good tennis players. A lot of the boys I coached were playing her older brother. And I remember her coming up and she was playing up in the 18s. Obviously she was like 14, 15.

Alvin Owusu (35:44.301)
Yeah, she's from South Carolina, that's right. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (36:03.654)
We all knew she was going to be good. I don't think most of us knew how young she was always playing up as that player tends to do. And then she went off to Virginia, of course, and played well. I've been watching her for a while. And I'm literally watching her from on the courts and then to see her continue to get good. I was very impressed that she shot up to top 10 that quickly and had such good results against so many players. Allah, the rise that is in her head right after college when he had his

Alvin Owusu (36:07.384)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (36:32.186)
Sure, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (36:32.464)
run at DC, right? It wasn't that I didn't think he was good. It was that he beat so many quality players back to back to back to Edify and to substantiate where he was. And so think she's done that to her own degree, obviously younger and in some ways more distinctly, know, John leaned in on the serve and played great tennis, especially his first couple of years. And obviously after that, he was a top 10 player from there on in and still holds the record.

Big John at Wimby and it'll never be broken out. They changed the rules. So that's one for the record books. But my thing for Emma is that I don't think we've seen all that she can do. I've seen her play attacking tennis. I've seen her play counterpunch. I've seen her play cat mouse. I've seen her strike when she gets the right conditions and gets the right balls. So it's one of those things where she can do a little bit of everything, which I like. And I think that once she gets comfortable.

you know, once she gets comfortable, start seeing a little more tennis from her that I think the way I think she's one of those sleepers that I said that that's not there yet that that will be soon. Hard to say about Paulini. I like her. I haven't seen enough of her to really give her a true day in court. I say the same about Miss Stearns and a few others. They're coming. They're coming. But I think they need to I think they need to be in the oven a little longer to really get good and get up to to up to temp. They're just it's too early.

And I hate keeping praise or expectation on a young player. Let them continue to develop and, hey buddy, your matches are going to come. And trust me that your time to get that title belt will be there much before you want it to. And then we're going to expect that from you again the next year. Right? So it's one of those things where, you know, I'd love to be talking about her getting better every year versus like I'm talking about Rata Cono now. Where's she been? You know what I mean? What happened? You know, and let's face it.

She may never run a condo may never get back in the top 10 in my opinion ever. And the there's just back to 100 % to my point blood and water. And again, so my point I'd much rather have a player take that extra year or two can't take more than five. I think the women's earlier episode. We talked about five years. I think women's game is three years to be honest. So but take that extra six months get your game. I be good at all services be ready to play that player.

Alvin Owusu (38:30.513)
I think that'd be the betting favorite there.

Torrey Hawkins (38:54.77)
period because there's going to be a bad day. There's going to be an injury. You know, there's going to be some you will have that gift draw open up before you realize it. Be ready when opportunity knocks is to me and in this post-goat era, the goats have gone. You've got other two others in the making and I still feel the the gelatin hasn't set yet. The jello is not yet said you could still get in there if you played the right way and I don't I don't know.

especially breaking into that group. Now, not necessarily to the top to winning a slam, but breaking into the contenders group, I think it's still got some room left.

Alvin Owusu (39:32.85)
So I think Jasmine Paolini is a really good example of how different the women's game is right now to the men's game as far as the age component. So she's been around 50, 60 in the world for a couple years and then something happened where it clicked for her. She started to maybe just started to believe and then we get to a situation where she wins a tournament in the UAE. I think she won the Masters event for the 1000 to the 500 there and then goes on a burner this summer.

Torrey Hawkins (39:46.876)
Long time. Yep.

Yup. Yup.

Alvin Owusu (40:02.45)
back-to-back French Open, Wimbledon finalist, and then did pretty well at the US Open as well. I think she made round of 16, maybe quarterfinals. So, you know, whether or not, I find that that, because she did it so late, but was able to put it together over the course of six months, maybe seven months, I think, and then also played fantastic at Billie Jean King Cup as well, I think you're gonna see her continue to be a mainstay for the next.

Torrey Hawkins (40:20.393)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (40:30.106)
I'll give it two or three years. She is 28, right? She's not a spring chicken, I'd be a tennis standard spring chicken. Let me fully say that. But I think she can, because she's an adult, I feel like she'll know what to do and how to best take her results this year, replicate what went into it to get similar output. Maybe she doesn't finish top five in the world again, but I could see her, I think she's definitely a top.

She's probably a top 10 player hanging around eight, nine, 10, somewhere around there seems about right for her for the next few years. Assuming she doesn't get hurt. But you did mention Peyton Stearns. I really enjoy watching Peyton Stearns play. She reminds, she's like the Jen Brady 2.0. And I...

Torrey Hawkins (41:00.67)
Yup. Yup. Yup.

Torrey Hawkins (41:15.563)
100%. 100%. And again, I'm gonna have to cut you off. She has to do what Jen Brady does or did before I can say 2.0. But I'm with you and I totally understand what you're saying. I just hate giving the praise before it's due. Do I think she's gonna be good? She's already good. I think the girl's gonna be wonderful. I love. Never met a foreign she didn't like. I mean, likes a smack it. I feel like Jen.

Alvin Owusu (41:38.226)
Yeah.

Hehehehehe

Torrey Hawkins (41:44.623)
know, save for some injuries and some other things in life. thought was just, I thought she should still be in that contender list. You know, as big as her serve was and as big as she was hitting the ball, I just felt like right after Pandy, pandemic hurt her assent, in my opinion, when she was playing some of her best ball. I mean, I love Jen Brady.

Alvin Owusu (41:58.419)
yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, that's where Peyton reminds me a lot of Janet, and a little bit younger, comparatively when they broke onto the scene. I hope she can stay healthy. speaking of Emma Navarro and Peyton Stearns, actually, this was a really good year for the American women, right?

Torrey Hawkins (42:26.581)
Yup, yup.

Alvin Owusu (42:27.189)
You've got seven women finishing inside the top 50 this year, which is, know, I'm Stern's being the, you know, the lowest ranked of them at 47 and, but mean, three in the top 10 put, put Danielle Collins in there at 11. So, what's, what do you see? What is there about this group? Or maybe, maybe we can talk a little bit about what's going right. within that particular on the, on the women's side anyways,

Torrey Hawkins (42:33.899)
than the seventh.

Alvin Owusu (42:55.858)
when it comes to the American women, is it just, are they all just kind of different cases or are we seeing something? Okay.

Torrey Hawkins (43:01.677)
I think so. think so. I think timing and I think just just the sheer I'm going to say it again post goat era because of the vacuum that's now been open. There are so many different players that are now ascending to the top and that goat for lack of a better term puts a stopper on a lot of the asset of any future player. Now that goats no longer there that draws now more open.

And now you're starting to see those players have a true ascent to the top or at a chance. And some of the others who weren't ready, not ready, weren't really that good as far as championship level are now yielding to some of the players that have said, hey, I want a little piece of this. I want to my hat in the ring. So I think that's what we're seeing. It's just a little more of a timing situation. Each of them has gotten their different pass. Focal got there straight from junior straight to pros.

Emma went to college, you know, was a standout American, and she's the champion at UVA. You've got so many different types. You mentioned your girl, Wolfpack. There's so many different ways that women have gotten there. I just, and you've got, you know, some of the, if you look at each of those ones you talked about, you you're right here, I feel, and I don't think enough credit has been given to Jess Bagula for helping to give.

Coco her start with the doubles and some of the tournaments that she played early on way back in the day, just helping that next player get up to that level. Would Coco have gotten there anyway? Sure, eventually, but she gave her a foothold and gave her some momentum and gave her some, you know, that few had gotten before that. And I think a lot of credit needs to go to a player like a Jess Pagula for that. But she, if you look at those two or three players with Navarro, Coco and Jessica,

very different paths to get there, you know, and there and, know, Jesse was just a little engine that could all the way to number three in the world. Right. So there's an object, the older of the eldest of the three, I just feel like each of them are a little bit of a different situation and very fortunate we are as Americans to have these young players play. And we're very fortunate to have them all at same time, because we're really swung the watch. I feel for.

Alvin Owusu (45:05.311)
Great.

Torrey Hawkins (45:23.607)
the American audience, especially you'd like to see the stars and stripes on the side of someone's name when you go out there and watch some tennis. And I think that keeps butts in seats and that keeps the sponsors and everyone, especially at our homeslam active and boost and directly coming back to American tennis. So to me, that's the next thing I don't see. I think the USTA has done a much better job of canvassing for talent. I don't think everything has been a development.

arm of theirs. think they've given more opportunities. think they've mentored more. They've given spotlight to more, but I don't think they've done anything else different than the last 25 years. They're just much of the fruit of the labor and much of the fertile field, so to speak, has produced a bumper crop happens to be this year. And each one of them, in my opinion, each one of them has been a product of a solid coach or coaches and development.

more so that it's been the USTA Federation, you know, helping those individual players get there.

Alvin Owusu (46:26.614)
I like that. That's interesting and I know we've teased this before and I don't mind teasing it just one more time. American tennis over the last 25 years is something that we're both very passionate about. Making sure we take a deep dive into that and talking to the people about where we've been, where we're going, and what the future might look like on both the women's and men's side on American tennis. Yeah, please do.

Torrey Hawkins (46:38.926)
100%.

Torrey Hawkins (46:52.066)
Yep. I'd to add one more point to that when we come back to that, to that issue. College tennis has not gotten its due for the development and the platform that it has given players. talked to Jen Brady a minute ago, Danielle Collins, Emma Navarro. Now there's so many players that have had success at that level that I feel much like the men's game when, you know, years ago and players are starting to go through. I coached the top players, you know,

Sco, I had wanted Sco to go to college at least one year, maybe two, both maturity level wise, as well as to establish himself at that level. Right. I felt the Pro Tour was a huge jump. he was playing against men. The Pro Tour was getting longer in their span and being at the top. and while the money and the contracts and stuff were there, I did not feel, I did not feel that it was in the best interest of a young player who was going to need to be out there six plus years to really make it.

was well served by jumping over the whole college tennis. I feel college tennis deserves its due for what the platform of the international platform that it has given has given players. I feel like the college coaches are younger now, they're former players themselves. And I feel like we're getting out of the old, the good old boy network and the old, you know, I'm going to call it old coaching style.

just make balls, push, just get that ball back and play one more time. They're starting to develop these kids games. Kids are coming in playing six, three years later playing one, a year later playing pro tennis, top 50. That's a huge testament to the coaching that's going on in college tennis today. Not everywhere, it's not everywhere yet, but players are coming out of nowhere. And I feel like that's a testament to the college system continuing to prove that it's viable. And I feel like there for a while, a player was almost, especially on women's side,

what looked at as good enough. So you went to college and I feel like we're changing that narrative a lot now with these players coming out of school and having a chance to be on the tour. Not to say you can't go pro, Coco's done it, but I feel that Coco's are a lot more, especially in the United States, is a lot more rare, her trajectory than it has been at least in the last 10 years, than the Jen Brady, the Emma Navarro, Daniel Collins, et cetera, et cetera.

Alvin Owusu (49:14.908)
Yeah, the college, those are really, really good points. I've got a bunch of questions now. As soon as you start talking about college tennis and all the different layers, with college tennis now in the states, offering opportunities for players to come in, train, world-class facilities, get really good competition, participate on the USTA Challenger circuit as well.

have an opportunity to play in professional events, it's becoming more and more of an avenue, more and more of a true feeder system into the pro tour on both men's and women's sides for not just American players, but also for international players as well. And so as you get more and more quality players into the pool, the overall talent level goes up and it becomes more and more competitive. And I think we've heard a lot about...

Torrey Hawkins (49:48.172)
percent.

Alvin Owusu (50:05.87)
the system itself, college tennis itself, being a vehicle that can produce more ready to go professional players. But this is the first time that I've heard someone mention the impact that the new wave of college coaches has. Like a good, a former, wouldn't say, we weren't, we're the same age, we weren't on the same courts. Myself and Bobby Reynolds, you're one of your former.

Torrey Hawkins (50:32.944)
Sure. Sure. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (50:34.477)
Former players, he, you know, obviously had a very strong, strong career both in college and then, did, think it did himself proud on the pro tour as well. but he's been, he had top 50, he's been coaching at, at, at Auburn for quite some time now. It's been almost, gosh, almost at least 10 years, maybe close to 15. Yeah. So, but having players like that going into coaching and then staying at a program, can only do wonders for.

Torrey Hawkins (50:44.56)
50

Torrey Hawkins (50:49.328)
or, yep, at least 10 years, if not more than that, 100%, 100%.

Alvin Owusu (51:03.669)
for to having getting that kind of information you referenced. Sco has been a college coach for some years now as well.

Torrey Hawkins (51:09.586)
for many, many years. I feel, I mean, even players outside of our own network, right? know, Drake Bernstein did a phenomenal job at UGA with those players. And Jamie Hunt just took over after for Manadias, you know, a few years, a year or so ago. There's so many good young coaches that are coming up through the ranks and helping these players get to a top level. I've got to plug in here that I think the, personally feel, and this is me, I personally feel they have

brought almost the extension of, we used to talk about this all the time, the 20 and under academy. know, the 20 and under, you know, in a sense, you weren't finished, right? You weren't physically, you weren't physically mature enough to truly finish. And now here you are at a point where we're starting to really put all this together again. And college becomes that elite academy, right? Where all of your top, top players go. And you heard it right here, Alvin, you heard it right here.

Alvin Owusu (51:47.265)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (52:03.639)
Right, yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (52:09.041)
Tennis is one of those sports that needs it. Maybe not in the majors, maybe so you can make your case for it in the D league and also AAA for baseball and others, a former system that they used to have for many, many years. But you heard right here, tennis needs it. You need to get your skills sharpened. You don't know what you don't know and you have not performed yet at that level. Many players that were big hitters, aggressive, needed to fine tune and develop some consistency. The consistency players have to get better.

hitting through the ball, the player that was big at 12 that by the time there were 16 same size everybody else, the player that grew late at some point with so many juniors playing up 12s are moving 14s 14 sometimes skip over 16s altogether play up in the 18s. You start to lose that how proven are you and then you take those first few couple of tough losses and then you kind of see well, maybe they weren't that good. I would submit.

Maybe they didn't play enough tennis before they got to that stage. And if they played a little more and were proven, now we're going to see a better level of tennis out of those players because they have in fact proven themselves. I remember talking to Genevrey one time about, don't want to get long winded here. Genevrey told me he had about a five year, you know, where he did not make a big crack at some of the slams, but he kept telling himself.

Alvin Owusu (53:23.886)
And that's what.

No, no, please go.

Torrey Hawkins (53:38.247)
Mind you, ran into Agassi two opens in a row. mean, that's a tough, during Agassi's peak. So that's a tough person, one of the goats of his era that he had to get through. He told me, but I had won five challengers. So I knew it was only going to be a matter of time. Guy gets to the semi of the open one year, has a phenomenal run. Now, what does that tell you? Well, it tells you that the guy had matches under his belt up until that point in time. Not many players, in my opinion, go, whether it was the old school pro circuit,

top college. And because of that, you don't have those wins, you don't have that confidence that I can win at that next level. We always think of pro as the only next level. But in my opinion, that next level, it's tough. And I think college needs needs a compliment and needs its voice heard. We talked the other day, one of the episodes about the tennis commissioner, the ITA having a seat at that table. And my reason for that was it's an international sport for one.

And for number two, college has helped spit out a bunch of players that we would not have seen otherwise that have made their chance on the tour. And it's a pathway for the majority of the top players to play and it's economically viable for many. And I think that's a big deal for us to talk about that that keeps these players playing. And I think it deserves its due. I think the format is phenomenal. I loved it. I coached it myself, played it. know.

Alvin Owusu (54:54.896)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (55:05.524)
You've been saying, we love watching some good matches of the NCAAs come around. You're you're always excited to watch the true format of team tennis, right, in the college setting. But I just think it needs to have that level, you know, of just appreciation, notoriety, and be looking for those top players. We've got to get back to the point where we're starting to get those wild cards, those wild card tournaments. I'll get off my...

Alvin Owusu (55:16.048)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (55:33.392)
my stump, but don't sleep on the tennis commissioner and that whole series. When we come back to that, I have a whole thought about the qualifying and the challenger and how college tennis could play a huge role into that and call it a winter NCAAs open format that I think could be absolutely phenomenal that could really turn the tennis world on its head. If done right.

Alvin Owusu (56:02.108)
I like that, I like that. We're gonna wrap it up here. We're gonna wrap it up here, but we can't leave the people out without taking a trip to Coach's Corner. So Tori Hawkins, I submit to you, what is the biggest opportunity in women's tennis? If you can add one thing to your game, what is the thing that probably pays the most dividends on the women's side today?

Torrey Hawkins (56:28.863)
serve. Easy answer the serve most it the biggest weapon in the women's game is the return of serve. Unfortunately, the biggest weakness in the women's game is the second serve. If you were to develop a very, very high level second serve, you would be better at whatever level you're playing. I don't care if you are an aspiring pro trying to break into the top 200. I don't care if you're top college player trying to break into your own lineup. I don't care if you are a free five lady.

trying to play high in the lineup on your own ALTA team or your USDA team. If you develop a serve, it is a game changer. I think more young girls should be out there throwing the football with their with their brother and sister and dad and mom. More young girls should be out there throwing in general. I think more girls should be spending more time on their serves that have hitting ground strokes to the blue in the face. The serve is a game changer. I've seen so many girls over time.

that had a serve and were relevant and the ones that didn't were just the days of Alana Dmitrieva and having 23 double faults and Wimby are over. You have to have a serve to your point. Serena has brought that to the point. And having a serve is the single biggest difference maker you could have in your game. You have to double down on one stroke, spend that much time on your serve and your practices. Spend, in my opinion, if you're not spending 20 minutes a day,

on your serve in some level of instruction. It is the point starter. It is the biggest point in my opinion, the women's game. And I think that if more, let's say girls, junior girls, young ladies, professional women start to work that more in the game and the ones who are there already have, they would see huge dividends in their game. You look at the top now, every single last one of them has a good serve. You might even say some of them have a

have arrived at the top because they finally figured out their serve. Cocoa, when she won the open last year and then year in championship this past year. Arena's got a cannon. Iga's beefed up her serve. Mix it up, she has a good kick, she has a good slice, she can move it around. If she were to get her serve even better, Iga will continue her dominance over the women's tour and the rest of the ladies are talking about could only, Ravakina is, she gets a bigger serve, look out.

Alvin Owusu (58:27.431)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (58:32.189)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (58:52.37)
I think she is that sleeper that everyone's talking about. She can hit it, but she's, again, if there was one stroke for her to really spend some time on and really just to dial in, if she got that, buddy, she has everything else.

Alvin Owusu (59:04.979)
Yep, all right, well, for those who are still with us, thank you for joining. Again, like, subscribe, follow, rate, review, all those things, and we'll catch you on the next one. Tori, take care.

Torrey Hawkins (59:18.198)
Love to hear some questions from our listeners too, Alvin. Love to hear some things they'd like to hear from and maybe even on some of these wild and crazy tangents of ours, this whole tennis commissioner thing. I'd love to hear some thoughts from some other fellow fans, what they would like to see us not only talk about, but some of their own thoughts on the tennis commissioner idea and the season, television season of tennis. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Alvin Owusu (59:44.287)
That's right, flood those comments, flood those comments. All right, Coach, take care.

Torrey Hawkins (59:47.157)
Ha ha ha ha ha.

You too. Thanks, Alvin