Ep. 15: Australian Open Review

Alvin Owusu (00:00.43)
And welcome back to another edition of the Best Three Podcast. I am here with Tory Hawkins. Once again, TH, how we doing?

Torrey Hawkins (00:00.438)
Ha

Torrey Hawkins (00:08.087)
Right.

Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (00:23.297)
Doing good, Alvin, good morning. It's an early morning today and I know it's usually we're on the late night on the night train, you know what I mean? And so it's good to be on this early a.m. I got my coffee in hand and you know what I mean? We'll see what we can do.

Alvin Owusu (00:25.034)
It's a... It is early.

Alvin Owusu (00:31.384)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (00:37.934)
I'm fully caffeinated on this and so I've already switched over to water. But it's, you know, the Australian Open just wrapped up. So this kind of leaves us in a bit of a weird, I call it at home jet lag. I've been getting up pretty early, sometimes earlier than I want to. And now it's somewhat automatic. There's no tennis to be watched, but my body is ready to consume. But you know, that's a good time for us to chat then, I think. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (00:40.149)
Hahaha

Torrey Hawkins (00:49.884)
Exactly. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:00.159)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04.118)
100 % 100 % and some great tennis man, but some great tennis I was I know we want to speak a little bit about Madison Keys and I thought so proud of her man. I recall and I know you had mentioned your I'm gonna say fandom slash slash Hope that she had done well and I remember saying in the previous episode that if there was anybody that could go toe-to-toe and actually out

Alvin Owusu (01:12.51)
yeah we do.

Torrey Hawkins (01:32.895)
hit or strike it was Madison Keys and I was looking forward to that matchup. I was curious how she'd match up to Eega but I was not at all Madison playing her best. was not at all surprised and I was

pleasantly surprised that she brought even more I feel serve plus one against arena and let me just say this at the outset tennis needed that tennis needed Madison Top we're gonna say top two player in the world from you know, what was it 2017 when she when she got to the final against Sloan? Right tennis needed arena needs

Alvin Owusu (02:16.397)
$5.00 US Open 2017, yep.

Torrey Hawkins (02:22.334)
her counter, her bizarro, so to speak, in these days. Because only then do you really get tested and really round out your game. If she's just constantly working on attacking, attacking, attacking, through players, you kind of need that. I go back to the Serena days when she had Capriotti that could handle her pace. She had Lindsey Davenport that could handle her pace. These players, while they were not necessarily as...

offensive as she was and everything they made Serena play counterpunished which really helped define her game. She could go through anybody else. She couldn't go through Lindsey. She couldn't just blow through Sharapova. She had to strike and go toe to toe and those are some epic battles. So Serena needs a Madison Key. She needs these players to come through and be ready to go and battle her not just and wait for her to be patient and pick her spots. No, if you don't bring a girlfriend I will and that's what I as a

from a personal coaches note felt like long term that's a great win for Maddie but a great win for women's tennis arena will actually improve as a result of course Madison's down the conversation as she as she always should have been hats off to her and beyond and the rest of her team her parents everybody for the belief in her but I want you to tag in but I was so on the bigger scale very very happy to see that for tennis in general

Alvin Owusu (03:44.034)
Yeah, and I think, you know, for tennis in general, especially let's start with the American market that we're in, right? You we like to see the same people kind of show up in the later rounds of the big tournaments that we're watching on TV. And so Madison's kind of been in the zeitgeist for a while now. People, think people know her, tennis fans definitely know her. But it's, know, arena has had...

Eega for the last two years and what they've been doing in the one two kind of battle has been fantastic. It's good for the greater sport to have, you know, not only arena and Eega with very contrasting game styles, you would say, but now you have like this, you know, kind of Thor meets Hulk, like a different version of big tennis. yeah, I mean, my

Torrey Hawkins (04:24.498)
Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (04:31.375)
Right? Sure.

Alvin Owusu (04:36.938)
It's less a fandom I have of Madison. It's more of a kinship. I feel like she's my long lost little sister that I never had for no reason, no reason whatsoever. But I feel like when I say that, it's echoed within the tennis community, right? You saw the outpouring of support and congratulations that seemed to come from a very earnest place from players, coaches, commentators, like people at the USTA, like Madison's just that kind of person that.

Torrey Hawkins (04:43.045)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (04:59.824)
100 %

100%. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (05:04.525)
makes people want to pull for her because I think you get to, she comes by it honestly and I feel like you, she really wants you to be a part of her journey and she wears that on her sleeve and I shed tears during the final, but not only in the final, but also in the semi, like the semi against Eka was a, that was a, it was a hell of a match, man. It was a hell of a match. had some, she did.

Torrey Hawkins (05:17.359)
Mmm.

Torrey Hawkins (05:24.72)
It was, it was. And he got through everything at her, from the bathroom breaks to the little bit of gamesmanship. mean, to just all out grit and fight, which to me made it even more worth it for Maddie. I'm gonna say one more thing, which I think we as Americans tend to do more than anything else, which I don't like. We write people off too soon, Alvin. And I feel like, let's face it, a lot of us had written off Madison Keys. A lot of us had written off her and her level. kinda...

You know, we push things off and I'm not here to speak to the likes of your emirate, who's who's been through, you know, multiple coaching changes and had kind of a Cinderella story at the open of some years back. I don't know. She'll ever make it back to a final to be very honest with you just in terms of where the game's going and how I'm going to say how perfect that situation was for that year. I'm talking about a legit player lost in a final against another very good American player. And in our drive through

you know, here today gone tomorrow kind of mentality. feel like, you know, it was almost more of a, we've kind of moved on, you know, past Madison and I feel like the girl's still playing. She's not even 30 years old yet. You know what I mean? She's hit.

Alvin Owusu (06:34.509)
has been in the top 25. Like she's been around. She's not gone anywhere.

Torrey Hawkins (06:37.43)
Right. And resurgent as she was, was like, you know what? Matt's gonna have a good tournament. I she's not playing bad tennis. And I just feel like, while I'm thinking about it, think Sloan still has one more tournament up her sleeve. At the very least, she recommits back to her fitness and gets back with some of the teams that have had her playing her best tennis. She clearly can strike with the best of them. And to that end, I won't go outside of the American players, but clearly I gotta make a head nod to Naomi Osaka. But there's so many of these players

that if they brought their A game back, could easily be back in some of the top five. And I say that for Madison in particular, because she's just showed it, but I say it more from a standpoint of Americans, I feel like we've gotta just give these players the space they need to kind of get around, get their head around. She made a quote that she finally was okay with not winning one. And that allowed her to win one. It was like this whole burden. And we don't realize, you know, the huge,

Alvin Owusu (07:28.652)
Right, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (07:37.939)
Millstone that's around these players necks about making this and being considered one of the greats. You got to win one and how that just carry it just it just man it brings you down. You can't swim with a millstone around your neck right. So I feel like to some degree without getting off topic. I think Coco still trying to she's trying too hard to win another one right to kind of to support her to support who she is instead of saying you know what I'm just gonna keep working on my tennis and the next one will come you know I was so happy to win one it was great but

To be honest with you, I got a lot to work on. Let just keep working on my game. The results take care of themselves. And that mentality, I feel like, is really what has propelled, along with some few minor game changes and serve improvements, has really helped Madison. So hats off to her, man. Hats off to her team. Really proud of Bjorn. Taking full credit of some things he's helped. Man, which I didn't like that part either. I feel like a lot of it is a bit much.

Alvin Owusu (08:26.061)
A lot of it, I mean they were shoveling at him. It's a, know, can only, it was a bit much. It was a bit much.

Torrey Hawkins (08:34.016)
But I feel like I was very, very excited to see Madison just believe in herself and get through. And as I said, man, she looked good, bro. She looked good. the second when Arena won, Arena made some nice adjustments. But I'm telling you, I was really happy to see that side of Arena and the fact that she had to. She hasn't played a play like that all tournament. You know what mean? That could actually be what she is.

Alvin Owusu (08:50.807)
She did, she really did.

Torrey Hawkins (09:01.085)
And so to defend that, you could tell how in those first three or four service games, she was shell shocked like, whoa, where did this come from? You know what I mean?

Alvin Owusu (09:07.851)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, she played against Clara Towson, I think maybe second or third round, who hits a pretty big ball. Obviously nothing as big as, I mean, no one hits it bigger than Madison Keys does, right? But Clara does hit a really big ball. But I mean, if you go back to last year's US Open semifinal, right? Like where Arena was down, I guess Madison was up a set, 6-0 maybe 4-1, something like that, 6-0 3-1, something like that. So like Madison has put Arena on her heels before. Now,

the mental kind of baggage of not getting through that match when she probably should have is one thing, but as far as the tennis, what's happening on the court, I think both players go into that match, go into that final knowing exactly what was possible because they've seen it four months ago. Arena was very well prepared for what could happen, but the best case scenario for Madison did happen.

she didn't miss a ball for the first 30 minutes of that match.

Torrey Hawkins (10:08.937)
100 % and had good margin, was coming forward. I'm just gonna say, Arena kept waiting for the storm to pass. And it was Hurricane Harvey and it did camp for five days. mean, was just, buddy, settle in. ain't going nowhere, you know?

Alvin Owusu (10:19.455)
Yeah, yeah, because there's always a drop, right?

Alvin Owusu (10:25.376)
Yeah.

Yeah, it was like that match, I guess we'll focus on the final here, that match was a, know, tactically it had kind of everything. And I love the fact that both players were able to make adjustments. Like Madison came in with a very clear game plan, executed early, got control of the match, Arena showed her championship medal, stayed calm, made some adjustments, wasn't looking at the box a lot. She was like, I know what I need to do.

Torrey Hawkins (10:39.592)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (10:44.403)
Yup. Yup.

Alvin Owusu (10:58.232)
I just need a chance to do it. And eventually this player will come down, right? The jet fuel will burn off after takeoff a little bit and you just gotta be there and be ready. And she's an experienced champion, she knows that, right? So when the situation, when the opportunity was presented itself in the back end of the first, beginning of the second, like Arena was right there for it. And I think like her making those adjustments using the drop shot, she served a lot better in the second set, right?

Torrey Hawkins (10:58.546)
Right. Yep. Yep.

Sure, sure.

Torrey Hawkins (11:24.369)
So about the drop shot, I think the drop shot use for her is gonna be a big tool going forward. She's got pretty good craft, got pretty good feel. I was really, really impressed with her use of that. I don't think Madison saw that coming. Nor do I think she's as swift, I she's six feet tall, to be able to run that kind of ball down. And how often are you gonna drop shot Madison Keys? You don't get chances to drop shot Madison Keys. You know what I mean? Right. The sixth time she had a chance.

Alvin Owusu (11:29.461)
Yeah!

Alvin Owusu (11:43.029)
Right. Yeah, you need time to set up a well executed drop shot.

Torrey Hawkins (11:50.215)
She has dropped us on all six. I mean, it wasn't like it was 16 and it definitely wasn't 16. You know what I mean? So I thought that was a, it was a well played shot, showing some versatility and just changing up, making that person move in a little bit more to cheat in on the drop and sticking them on the next step. think drop shot is one of those plays when you do it well, a la she did and a la Alcares. It just keeps you on your toes like, ah, I gotta watch out for that ball.

And when you cheat in a little bit, you become more vulnerable to the depth. And when you stay back too far, right, you know the dropper's coming. It's just one of those check, checks and balances in a, especially in a high tempo battle between two players, two titans, so to speak, that hit the ball, hit the cover off the ball. So it was, again, good to see, it was good to see her change up and it was so good to see Madison continue to hold serve. You mentioned not many people hit as big as, but I don't think anyone hits it bigger than Madison as far as actual ball speed.

Alvin Owusu (12:41.673)
No, no. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (12:43.749)
And I think that needs to be said because when you're now talking about, you're you're not going to Madison's ball speed. What you could affect is how you parry and how you defend and absorb and redirect. But. Arena's game is to hit through, right? She that's her style. If anything, I feel has better punish behind her big ball. And I feel like that's also something that I've been waiting for Madison to accomplish this. Where is her finish? Where is the?

In the coaching world, I look at a player who has an aggressive baseline game, I know they got a big serve, I know they got a good plus one, I know they got the ability to step up forehand. But if that ball comes back, are they comfortable around the net? Are they comfortable taking the second step up or the swinging volley? Are they comfortable finishing what they started? Because it's the dunk of a nice play or a nice alley-oop. It is the, wait, I know how to set it up and I can finish and then that alone,

Alvin Owusu (13:12.342)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (13:41.39)
puts its own pressure on you for points to come. It isn't just the shot, it's what it means. It's the momentum it delivers.

Alvin Owusu (13:49.28)
Right. And that's, think that's kind of the, know, with all the praise that was heaped upon, coach Bjorn, that's, that's, that's not his job to be looking around the corner. And, know, Bjorn was a hell of a player in his, in his, in his own, right. and I think that is probably enough for him to be able to see the keys. He's obviously seeing something clearly and he knows his player. That's, you know, obviously very important for coach, but at age 29, you gotta be thinking about, okay, how much, how much runaway do we have left? Right. She probably, let's say she's healthy.

Torrey Hawkins (14:02.286)
Great doubles player.

Alvin Owusu (14:18.881)
Another three years, maybe four, maybe probably three, but let's just, let's just talk about the next six months, right? What is, what's next on the plate for development because development never stops. Right. And I think that's the part of her game that is, that is addressed, that is addressable. Right. You can't, you can't really do much about how well she, how well she moves to a doubles alley. Right. She's, she, she, she's a power player, but I think there is her mid court game.

Torrey Hawkins (14:22.583)
Sure. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (14:47.99)
and her finishing game at the net do leave a lot to be desired, right? As big as she hits it, even in the middle of the serve, in No Man's Land, that next ball, if it's not a high forehand at the service box, that kind of transition ball is shaky. I think players will adjust. So like you said, if she's hitting that big ball, if someone can check it with quick hands and redirect, she's gotta be there for that next ball. Gotta be there for the next ball.

Torrey Hawkins (14:57.218)
next class.

Torrey Hawkins (15:03.074)
All right. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (15:15.81)
It's every aggressive baseliner's Achilles heel. It just is. And when it comes back, it's tough. It doesn't often come back. And so that's part of the problem, right? You don't see it come back as often and done well, you shouldn't see it come back. But doesn't mean that it won't. I think, you know, I won't go into Zverev and my main man Sinner.

Alvin Owusu (15:25.259)
It doesn't come back, right?

Torrey Hawkins (15:39.317)
you know, too early, but that was another piece of that match. I felt like when that ball comes back, you start to kind of see, you know, they just don't see that come back that often. So hats off to her. This is a weird thought. I would love to see Madison play a little bit more doubles. I don't care if it's with Coco. I don't care if it's with Sloan. don't care if it's whoever she can choose a bevy of players to pick from JPEG, right? Somebody love to see her ingest the rule. That's my personal, my personal choice.

Alvin Owusu (16:02.487)
That would be fun. Maybe Charleston. They're both playing. That'd be cool.

Torrey Hawkins (16:05.033)
Right. Now, and here's why I say it. Players are getting a little older. Players are getting up to that level. The serve and the return, I don't think anybody serves the returns perhaps better than those two on the American side of things. You arguably could put Coco in that and that makes him a few others. But as far as on the older side of the players, that generation, I would love to see the two of them extend their career a little bit. Fran Tangelos found a way to extend his career was with lot of doubles, not quite as high.

and singles as we, as the American population would have hoped, but his doubles has gotten really good and did a nice job. And I would love to see personally, I would love to see him work that side with her, Sinner career a little bit. I think doubles is a bit of a loss. This is a weird tangent. I'm to go here. A lot of the players are unknown. And so therefore you don't follow the doubles as much because you don't know who they are.

Alvin Owusu (16:53.517)
Please go.

Torrey Hawkins (17:01.318)
In my days growing up, Alvin, we had a guy by the name of John McEnroe, which everybody may or may not have heard of. But you didn't necessarily have to know Peter Fleming was. You just knew that he was John's partner. You come up through those next few years, and there was a guy by the name of Ken Flack. And you didn't necessarily, you you heard about Ken and his younger brother Doug, but man, Flack and Saguso were fun to watch in doubles. And then we had...

these two guys by the name of the Jensen brothers and so on and so on. And then we had these two guys named the Brian's who happened to be twins and it was just, well, what am I getting at? They were identifiable and you started watching doubles because you knew they were. The women's side were very similar, Martina and Pam. Who didn't want to watch Martina and Pam out there on the court? And you knew how lefty righty and tall one and a little shorter one and one had the great hands, one had the big serve. It was just fun doubles to watch. So I say that to say, summertime, I was just watching some of the doubles final.

It's just, there's no offense on any of the good double specialists that are out there, but you just don't know them. And I feel like there's a bit of a loss. I bet you in the Olympics, when Nadal played with Alcaraz, I bet there was more viewership in that match when they played, was it Ram? Who did Ram play with? Who did play doubles with? Who did Ram play with? I'm trying to...

Alvin Owusu (18:11.115)
yeah, at the Olympics.

Alvin Owusu (18:19.565)
Uh, do you play with Tael? No, no, Taelor played with Tommy.

Torrey Hawkins (18:22.27)
no, lefty, American lefty.

Alvin Owusu (18:27.469)
It'll come back. It's all good.

Torrey Hawkins (18:28.669)
Anyway, it was such a, but that match showed just how, you know, we know Rafa's not a doubles player. We understand that, but you tuned in because, dude, it's Rafa. I wanna watch. I remember, was it Labor Cup? Maybe a year or two ago when Faux and Soc were playing against Rafa and Fed, right? You love watching that. I mean, these two aren't doubles, and they don't play doubles together, but you watched because, wow.

Alvin Owusu (18:50.795)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (18:57.949)
wonder what these guys can do. Now you give relevance to how good these other guys really are in doubles over that. So that's a side tangent to me, but I wanted to mention it because I feel like it needs to be said. Austin, check. It was just something I feel like I wanted to mention because I feel like we've kind of gotten away from, you know, my opinion, some of the players playing both and I get it. They need to save themselves for singles, especially in these, but I also feel like doubles is kind of going down.

Alvin Owusu (19:05.58)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (19:10.593)
Cry check. Cry check.

Torrey Hawkins (19:26.424)
And these players, especially a player like a Madison that are getting a little older, people want to watch and they want to see it, but they want to see a familiar face. And you don't get enough serve and return practice, you know, play a more of a limited schedule, but add more doubles to me. And I think money wise, think the slams clearly are going to be profitable. It's profitable to some of these 500s and whatnot. But I also feel like it's something that the fans want to see.

Alvin Owusu (19:34.487)
They wanna see familiar face.

Torrey Hawkins (19:52.827)
and can really appreciate how that might extend the career just a little bit longer. So that's just my two cents and hope I see it.

Alvin Owusu (19:56.973)
You know?

The doubles aspect of it, and obviously you have more experience watching a longer bank of doubles than I have, but in the last, I've noticed in the last, let's call it six years, you are seeing those players before they make, before they pop, right? Like, especially, primarily on the women's side. So on the men's side, you don't see it much. But on the women's side, you had Pugula and Golf playing together.

pretty extensively, you know, up until like last year. And then you had like, you know, before Arena became Arena, yeah, and Katie, yes, yes, Katie Meadow. I was gonna mention her another time. Maybe not today either, but how she got direct entry into the Australian Open, first round, I have no idea. So, but then also like Arena, she used to play with, I believe Elise Mertens, right? Is that correct? Was it Mertens that she played with?

Torrey Hawkins (20:32.89)
And Kater McNally,

Torrey Hawkins (20:39.81)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (20:51.416)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (20:56.206)
I think so, but this is before she became arena, right? Before she became a player who's gonna be in the last two days of the tournament pretty consistently. So I think it's happening before the people become who they are. I think that's probably part of the problem. I think the women do a better job of it than the men do, especially at the Grand Slams. obviously the workload time on court is more of an issue when you're talking about Grand Slams at three.

Torrey Hawkins (20:59.684)
Thank you.

Torrey Hawkins (21:22.851)
Yup. Yup.

Alvin Owusu (21:24.505)
best of three versus best of three versus best of five. So, you know, there, I think it's there. The opportunity is there. The ask is probably pretty, there's not really much in it for the top men, if you will. But I think, you know, everyone who's watched a tennis match or been to a tennis tournament knows how exciting doubles is. Especially, I think it's more exciting actually on the women's side because they do more stuff.

Torrey Hawkins (21:38.755)
Sure, sure.

Torrey Hawkins (21:46.234)
my god.

Torrey Hawkins (21:51.245)
you see how complete some of their games are. And to that point, I think it helps them to that end. So again, it was a side tangent, but I feel like for the fanship and for the overall experience and quite frankly, for the game development, I think it just, you don't get those same type of transition balls. You don't get the number of returns. You don't get that level of tempo. mean, doubles is fast, man. mean, as far as I'm concerned, one of my old partners and...

Alvin Owusu (21:53.139)
Yeah, you do more stuff.

Alvin Owusu (22:10.881)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (22:18.772)
from roommates said, it might as well be a different sport. Just happen to be playing on the same court.

Alvin Owusu (22:22.253)
Yeah, Doubles is as different from singles as pickleball is from tennis. it's a whole different.

Torrey Hawkins (22:27.768)
100 % and I thought I that was a great way of capsulating it. It's such a different game such everything about it's a bit different even though obviously what has a lot of similarities. So anyway with that being said I feel like the top players are we are the losers for not watching them or being able to watch them at some high level. So with that I know we can move on but

Alvin Owusu (22:45.674)
Yeah. No, well, I think it's, I think it's important that you mentioned something about the doubles that you do that you that one of the benefits for singles players playing doubles is the reps of one serving, serving under pressure to returning, returning under pressure. Right. And some of the big changes are kind of points of emphasis that kept coming up when talking about Madison Keys was like, you know, we'll kind of go in reverse order here is like last year during clay court season, she changed from a hybrid.

poly gut to straight poly, right? To start pulling the governor on some of those big strokes, right? And I remember watching, there's probably Madrid, I believe, when this came up and she was raving about it, like, oh, this is fantastic, I don't know why I didn't do this sooner. Okay, that's one, two. Back in the last year, she starts experimenting with a new racket, right? And that was very obvious, they talked about it a lot during the broadcast, right? They never mentioned the racket manufacturer.

Torrey Hawkins (23:16.705)
Straight parley, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (23:33.996)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (23:42.186)
Yeah, too many of them have Wilson in the pocket.

Alvin Owusu (23:42.446)
So maybe they haven't worked out the T's and C's yet. Well yeah, exactly, they haven't worked out the T's and C's of how much we're gonna be talking about the Japanese brand. yeah, it's like no, we can't say it. We can say it, but not say it. But I think the last part, I wanna talk little bit about the racket before we change over to the men, but the last part that they talked about a little bit was Madison and Bjorn working extensively on returns of serves.

Torrey Hawkins (23:50.943)
Now, Wilson's below is sitting there, don't see it, don't see it.

Alvin Owusu (24:12.321)
between matches and this is something that you and I talked about in previous episodes. We talked about it at Nausium at this point, like the biggest weapon in the women's game is the return to serve and the biggest liability being the second serve specifically. So in matches and like her last two matches, would say Madison did those two things extremely well. She served fantastically.

Torrey Hawkins (24:25.918)
The second thing, for sure.

Torrey Hawkins (24:33.289)
Very, good.

And what happened in the second set? Arena moved inside the court, put pressure on the second serve and literally trounced her in the second to my point. And that was the big adjustment that Madison made in the third, A, don't miss as many first serves. Which is number one, know, hello. But it was such a thing to me that it just showed you how lopsided the start can be and how much advantage the serve can be. You couldn't have served better than Madison Keys in that first set. I mean, she was serving.

Alvin Owusu (24:39.799)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (24:48.525)
One. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (25:05.978)
I mean, she was serving big. mean, corners out wide, that little slider she has out wide, her flat out wide miss, I mean, she hit every target you could hit in those first three or four service games.

Alvin Owusu (25:14.945)
which was a direct contrast to how she started the match against Ego where neither one of them could hold serve for six games. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (25:20.42)
100%, 100%, 100%. But shows you that it's there. It's just between nerves, whatever. And especially because it gets big. You kind of have that pressure that I have to serve big against you. Eega, don't get me wrong. Eega, especially the way she jumped on Emma with serves, mean, that was a clinic in itself with the second serve. But I just feel like those two, for whatever reason, settled into it little quicker. And it was good to see.

Alvin Owusu (25:24.493)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (25:46.323)
It's the second serve man. The return of serve in general and the second serve return in particular is a dude. It is just a gorilla with a flashlight man. mean, you know, it is no light at the end of tunnel. It is a gorilla with a flashlight and buddy, you're gonna get beat up every single time. Don't do it again. You know, so I was, to me that match was a quintessential women's tennis show of display of this is how you win at the highest level and really all.

Alvin Owusu (25:56.961)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (26:14.109)
top levels of women's game, you know what I mean? From juniors, college to, you know, even club players, the return will absolutely be a death knell if you allow it to be.

Alvin Owusu (26:23.115)
Yep. And then the last thing I want to talk about is the, is the, talked, they talked a lot about the racket switch, right? And so for those who aren't aware, Madison went from something like a Wilson Ultra, tighter string pattern, more of a control focused racket. I'm using air quotes here, focused racket to, she a, okay.

Torrey Hawkins (26:28.85)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (26:38.713)
And she had the Blade years ago, know, which I always thought was a terrible racket for her, you know, and I thought the Ultra was a good fit for her. Perhaps Ultra with some poly back in the day. But that Yonex she's got now, man, I know a lot of the girls like that Yonex. mean, hats off to Yonex for making, you know, and they keep getting, ironically, more un-Yonex in their head size, right? Remember the old, it gets a little more circular every year. I swear to God, back in the Martina days,

Alvin Owusu (26:51.387)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (26:59.502)
It's getting a little more circular every iteration.

Torrey Hawkins (27:07.761)
Man, the thing looked like a darn, looked like a rectangle with the handle on it, you know what I mean? And, aw, was right, longer, but 100 % right. it could, I remember Krychek had, Richard Krychek played one. Remember, he had that red one. And it looked like a Yannick Stole the design of a old school head tournament edge or something. One of them old school round, was more round than it was square. I think we can all appreciate that.

Alvin Owusu (27:11.647)
Right, exactly. It looked like a pickleball paddle, know, long as... Right.

Alvin Owusu (27:21.526)
yeah, like probably the RD, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (27:37.079)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (27:37.324)
And in fact, you didn't know it was a YarnX because you're like, huh, but that's, but it's not square though. And so anyway, I say it to say it seems like they've continued to kind of evolve a little bit. They still have that shape, but it is the one that Ben's playing with now, that blue one that a few other players have had. think, I think your girl, looking at her name, Jessie's used one right.

Alvin Owusu (27:42.176)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (27:47.863)
and

Alvin Owusu (27:51.938)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (27:56.398)
I mean, Jesse uses one now Madison, Ben, Francis, Tommy, they're all, mean, Yannick says, I mean, obviously Naomi.

Torrey Hawkins (28:05.903)
But a little different one though, because even the one that Varinka played with is kind of a, it's like a whiteish, it's like a little whiteish one, it's like a white or matte gray looking one. All of them are a little different. I don't know Yonex as well as I know the other sticks to know, I know the E-Zone and the red, I think the ones that they're playing with. But it was just, my point is, they're starting to have not only a wider range of models, they got a lot of different players playing with it. I say it to say, you know anybody with a good backhand probably got, you know, on the women's side probably got to with Yonex.

Alvin Owusu (28:10.041)
that's the old school. But it's... The pers... Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (28:35.479)
and I always felt it more of a good ground short racket. Some of these players are now playing with it who aren't too bad around the net and have pretty good serves. that to me was always the rub was ground short racket, know, deep. If you have good groundies, you probably want the extra reach to the yard. The sweet spot moves up a little bit due to the design. Anybody who plays more all court needs to play more with the Wilson. That was the old thinking. And obviously if you're ahead, you're just a pure ball striker. You don't really need much help. just...

you need a ball that's going to reward you if you hit in the right spot every time. Clearly Zverev is one of those classic, I hit the ball pretty clean every time. I don't need anything else from it. I just give it to me and make sure it's the same every time. So it's been neat to kind of see where he's at. again, I see it to say, I think it was a great change for her. She's clearly the results are kind of speaking for themselves. And I think that's still says a lot for a lot of people. We should always kind of go back.

and revisit technology from time to time just to see, just to see, can I be, is there something more it can give me that my current racket isn't? And I think, you know, there's so many racks coming out all the time now. It's just, it's almost like a planned obsolescence, right? They're trying to, hey, how about a new racket? You know, you might as well try it.

Alvin Owusu (29:35.285)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (29:51.278)
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think it's probably, you know, I've been a, I'd say a babalot guy for, since probably 2001, 2002, something like that, part of my first year in college. And I've always felt good with a babalot stick in my hand. And I remember back when I was working with you, when I was working for you.

and I first got my hands on that arrow racket, like that was like, man, where was this? Where have you been all my life? Now granted, I was in my late 20s or mid to late 20s at that point, so I was a different, you know, different body, a different player at that time. And that racket felt like it was like made for me, the 2000. Yeah, and this is the old, with the old Cortex and you know, it was like the 2010 version, like that was good stick, good days.

Torrey Hawkins (30:33.739)
Right. Well, you're left till you had spent. I mean, how was it not?

Alvin Owusu (30:45.178)
you know, and I've kind of stuck with Babylon and specifically that arrow, line, say for a few years when I was working in an academy, that was a Wilson Academy. But I bring that up because I did once play with a, Wilson and pro staff 98 L. And I tried both the regular and the light version. The light version was perfectly balanced.

Torrey Hawkins (31:03.017)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (31:11.315)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (31:11.423)
It was the right racket. had it weighted up at the throat just a little bit, but I felt like I could generate more spin with a light racket than I could with a, than a racket that was built with four spin, the, the, like the Pure Arrow. Yeah. And so I, I fast forward to now and I've been playing with the newer version of the Pure Arrow for about past a year and a half or so. And shout out to, shout out to my boy, Brad, Wakely, a friend of ours, friend of the pod.

Torrey Hawkins (31:19.199)
Right. for sure.

Torrey Hawkins (31:26.825)
Right, the spins work,

Torrey Hawkins (31:38.217)
Yeah, be awake.

Alvin Owusu (31:40.354)
V-Waix, we'll have to have them on to wax poetic about Babylon and tell us why, tell us why everyone should be playing with a Babylon racket. But I'm going to say this in the last three years or so, when I've taken the time to tip with new rackets, those Yonex rackets, they're making a good stick, man. They're making a good stick. It feels solid on contact. Like you feel connected to the ball, but yet you don't feel like you're lugging around the old like.

Torrey Hawkins (31:46.123)
So, go.

Torrey Hawkins (31:56.555)
100%.

Torrey Hawkins (32:06.622)
The old...

Alvin Owusu (32:06.921)
heavy the heavy bat, you know, they do it they somehow they've got some something in their magic where you're allowed to carry a lighter stick and still it still feels like a player's racket and I think that's been

Torrey Hawkins (32:15.654)
And to your point, it is very evenly balanced. And I think that's where they weren't always. You know what mean? They weren't always that way. So yeah, no shout out to them. And they've always done some nice things. It's happy to see it. know, happy to see it. I still kind of go back and forth. I still like head rackets. I still like the Prestige. That speed, they have now a speed.

and the Speed Legend, think, because obviously due to Novak and I'm telling you, that racket feels good, man. The head's big, good lord, it's a racket. And the Wilson Ultra, right, the gravity's a very good one.

Alvin Owusu (32:43.69)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (32:48.974)
Yeah, the gravity's a nice racket too. The head gravity's a good racket. The gravity, tour. The heaviest one is, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (32:56.98)
tour right that's their heavy one I think Wilson calls them pros I think Wilson calls them tours and and whatever I think Bab calls them are they are they tour are they

Alvin Owusu (33:07.309)
They went away from the heavy moniker, but they have the team, the yeah, Mm-mm. They stopped making it with the, I think I got a broken one up here.

Torrey Hawkins (33:09.993)
But they have teams, they have team for the light one and the regular for the normal. I don't think they make many tours anymore, the Babylon. I'm not sure. Right, so, but anyway, whatever they are, I think the heavy ones, whatever they are, I think they're all good sticks. But hats off to all the racket companies to just continue to apply that trade and really make them all better. I felt like Wilson got a little gimmicky there for a little bit. They got a little spin this and open string pattern and blah, blah, blah. All it did was make you...

break strings a little faster in my opinion. You're breaking strings every day. mean, it was like, yeah, notice this man. I'm like, yeah, notice my stringing bell. You know what I mean? But with all that said, I think it was a great switch for her getting back to Madison. Obviously, great, great match, great tennis. As I said, I think tennis is better for it. And I'd love to move on to the men and speak a little bit about my main man, Sasha Zverev and young.

Alvin Owusu (33:39.021)
boy.

Alvin Owusu (33:45.963)
Eheh

Alvin Owusu (33:59.168)
Yeah, let's

Go ahead and speak on it. We're gonna transition over. Not even gonna take a break. We're just gonna keep rolling. I think that was a bit of clinic tournament from Mr. Yannick Center. He was pushed once by Holger. Everything else was pretty straightforward. It reminded me a lot of the US Open. Yannick didn't drop a set in the US Open. No, he dropped his opening set, sorry, against McKenzie McDonald in the US Open. But same thing here. He drops one set in the, maybe two sets in the tournament.

Torrey Hawkins (34:14.246)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (34:23.1)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (34:33.069)
It's starting to look pretty surgical outside of his matches against Carlos and Novak to a certain extent, On hardcore anyways.

Torrey Hawkins (34:38.269)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (34:42.963)
I agree. I agree. And I would tell you that for some reason, I'm going to put my asterisk on that comment and not go any further. For some reason, the brother's just playing some, you said surgical, the precision that he has on serve percentage, return depth, and his ability to get out of trouble on that first ball that you run him with.

Alvin Owusu (34:54.188)
Yeah

Torrey Hawkins (35:13.44)
are unparalleled. The biggest ball all the guys have big serves and the best guys have great serves to spots when they need it. You can't argue enough with Ben Shelton and as far as the youngness the youth of him and how live his arm is. He I want to say didn't he beat Ben in straights? I mean he just has the ability and I want to say it was like one and a breaker and then like two and three or something like that after it did it was kind of going away which and Ben's got a cannon.

Alvin Owusu (35:31.905)
He did, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (35:36.299)
Yeah, yeah, fell apart pretty quick after that.

Torrey Hawkins (35:40.227)
I mean, an absolute Megatron cannon on that side. You're like, dude, I actually felt that helped him in this match against Vera because in the opening two games, Vera served pretty well. But I think Yannick was just used to that. He had had that ball already and he had just seen it. Like, dude, you're not gonna serve much, much bigger than Ben. I handle Ben serve. I think the thing that I wanna speak to more than anything, Sinner has depth.

on his return that is unparalleled Alvin. When I tell you his ball is probably within the back six to eight feet of the baseline on a return. So he's taking your 130, 135 mile an hour circle to a corner and hitting the ball back within the back six to eight feet of the court. That is phenomenal.

It's not just that he makes the return. It's that he hits the ball back so deep to you. And mind you, he's back eight feet himself off the baseline. It's not like he's Novak, taking the ball early, absorbing your pace and redirecting. He is back hitting it. And I feel like there's a lot to be said for a lot of his return. His return's traveling 80 some odd feet and he's giving it an absolute rip.

Alvin Owusu (36:50.551)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (37:02.678)
And now you're in a sense where if you don't have great footwork and great anticipation, you're not looking for your ball to come back with that kind of speed. And therefore that alone either rushes your first strike or it makes you short hop it, which doesn't get the same penetration. So there to me is why he's breaking. Years ago when Novak was so good at it, he was taking your return so early, you didn't have time. Years before that, it was Andre Agassi who would just rifle a return.

kind of where he was but Agassi always he also missed quite a few returns for taking such a big cut at the ball. Yannick has kind of morphed the two and he said look I'm gonna go back bigger I'm gonna rip through I'm not gonna roll and the doll would roll and go heavy and reset get back into the point. He's found a way a sweet spot to be just far back enough to rip but not have to roll and be not so far up on the court to not give himself time but he can still rip the ball.

Alvin Owusu (37:43.339)
Yeah, back up, roll, reset, yep.

Torrey Hawkins (37:56.002)
And that to me is the one piece that no one's really talking about in my opinion, tactically, that he is so much better than everybody else. just can't get, unless you ace or hit a service winner, you just can't hold as easy as you would like. And over the course of a service game or a set, you have that, just that eerie Jaws music in the back of your mind. Here he comes. You know what mean? Every time, and you know it's hard and harder to hold serve.

Alvin Owusu (38:22.273)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's two things you mentioned there that I noticed. Well, one I noticed and the one you brought up, he does sometimes he will back up. did back up against Ben. He didn't back up so much against Alexander, but he did back up against Ben. But then he does this thing where he'll hit that return, especially on the ad side, right? He'll take that return deep cross court. And then he comes right back up to the baseline and he hits that first ball almost like it's an

as opposed to hitting a good first ball from the baseline and then like striking mid court, he's just doing the same thing, but six feet back. So like he'll hit that return. And then when he comes up to that next ball, that what you would consider to be neutral ball right on the baseline, he tags that thing like an offensive ball, almost like saw one that he hit almost as like a lift and land from, the baseline. It's like, that's we're building from here now. Okay. Fine.

Torrey Hawkins (39:10.208)
Correct. And closing the door on any building you as a server might have.

Alvin Owusu (39:19.253)
Right, and that kind of backs into my other point where where Alexander kind of has no chance in this matchup, the anticipation part, a lot of the guys, because the game is so fast on the men's side right now, aren't attuned to, in my opinion, hitting that first serve and then looking to strike on that first ball, because generally it's coming back pretty big, pretty quick. And there are opportunities, but sometimes they're not ready for them. I'll say some players, specifically Alexander.

He's behind the baseline waiting on that first ball off of his own first serve that he's 130 at a 70 % clip. It's like that's the big difference from him and the lip service he gave about like I need to I need to be more aggressive. I need to step up and it's like well you need to do it like right there. There's an intention there and that he's not he's not bringing of like from the serve I am then going to take that next ball and I'm not going to back off this baseline.

Torrey Hawkins (40:10.954)
Yep. Right.

Yep, I will add, first of all, two great points you mentioned there, specifically for Alexander, his whole approach to the game to me is a little more of a war of attrition. He wants to get in that backhand rally. He wants to hit eight balls. He wants to kind of wrong foot you a few times. He doesn't mind hitting, hurting you on the move to his forehand, and he counters well in the backhand. He doesn't really want to take the backhand line as often. He doesn't want to be as aggressive.

Alvin Owusu (40:43.682)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (40:43.902)
The problem with that is against Yannick, if you give him too many chances, he will be aggressive if you don't. And you don't like that matchup if he's being the aggressor, especially on your service game. I feel like his changes, like that he's made on the surface, his service was great by the way. So hats off to Misha and his dad and the camp for making some of those changes. I feel like he's only going to get better. As you mentioned at the outset, continue to develop. He's got that to develop. You could tell there were some points where he was going line on the backhand.

He just wasn't as comfortable trying it that early. But should he continue, he'll get that ball. He's got a great backhand. It's just a matter of him making himself do it. I feel like the two pieces that he needs the most from a coaching perspective, addressing his court position better and just being willing to go for those, the inside out, inside in, or the backhand cross to the forehand or the backhand cross, backhand on the rise. And then let's see what I got.

maybe backhand line, maybe come, maybe go one more backhand, roll across and break your ankle to come in on the volley. But he is not, he is not looking for that exchange. I call it combos in a lot of tennis. You mentioned neutral ball. You and I are going neutral to neutral in a certain shot. I take my first ball big, big cross, be it big on the rise, be it inside out. The combo is really a two shot situation where you hit one to get one.

And if I connect on the second, that makes a combo. If I don't, it's just a good shot and I may have to neutral back. I may have to slice back, depending on how good your ball is on me. I can't depend or I can't necessarily forecast what I'm going to get back. There's a good chance I'll get one if I do it right. But the combo is dependent more on the bow than the calm, if you get what I'm saying. He hits a lot of combs with rarely a good bow behind until he's ready.

Alvin Owusu (42:24.77)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (42:29.857)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (42:37.499)
And I saw it in the Sinner match. He likes to go back in the back. He did it a lot with Novak even in that first set that was almost an hour and a half long. He just wants to stay across. And I feel like that's a good thing in some ways and a bad thing in some ways, especially if lack of depth creeps in, which unfortunately it tends to do. So the combo for me, for Zverev, for his next char, his next chunk of this year is can I get the ball in that?

back nine feet more often, ideally the back six feet. And more importantly, can I look to strike a little sooner? I don't have to necessarily bring my margin any worse, just keep the depth and move in more. What Senator did, and you mentioned this, he hit the return from six to eight feet back and his next ball is within two or three feet of the baseline on ball two. So any window, any window of you having to run him is now gone. And should you run him,

Alvin Owusu (43:26.188)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (43:35.054)
He's on the move, he's not on the run. Big difference. On the run, six to eight feet and three to five feet out wide of the alley. On the move, two to three feet baseline, maybe within the alleys on that next ball on the run. And on the move is comfortable, especially for Sinner. On the run, he can still handle that too occasionally, but when you have him on the move, you might be in worse shape than he is.

Alvin Owusu (43:57.676)
Yeah, and I think the big thing is whether he, with that backhand, ways to create more depth, right? And then what do you do off of that ball? Those are all kind of variations on the same thing, right? A good way to create more depth is to not make the shot so damn long, right? Why don't you come up a little bit, right? You gotta be able to take that ball off the rise and that will then give you some more depth on that backhand cross. And then number two, it's like, okay, well what happens after that?

Torrey Hawkins (44:04.217)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (44:23.371)
You can go inside in, you can build inside out from there. I know he doesn't like to, but you can go backhand line. But again, you don't want to be picking that ball up and going backhand line. You want to be driving through that ball going backhand line, which again means you gotta come up, which all comes back to the anticipation part, right? You gotta be looking for it, building for it. you know, that's kind of the, it's a very thin line between the winner circle and clapping, know, clapping from the back. And I think,

Torrey Hawkins (44:30.999)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (44:38.745)
Agree, Yep, yep.

Alvin Owusu (44:52.53)
The thing that is, you know, it's hard to argue with his results. The man is two in the world. He has, you know, he did final the French open. did, you know, final the Australian open, but just because the line is thin, doesn't mean that the line isn't there. There is a clear line between those who can win Grand Slams, those who are willing to take it. And in this, in this, in this space we in right now, that is a three man circle and one man is limping his way out. Right. And.

Torrey Hawkins (44:57.582)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (45:08.213)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (45:17.623)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (45:21.633)
That doesn't mean that there's room for three that Alexander is just going to assume the position. He's going to need to force his way in with a little bit of intention. And, you know, we've talked about it before, say it again, you know, these things aren't given to anyone. I do think he can win one. I just think he's going to need to full on sell out and commit to what it takes. Yeah, just what it takes.

Torrey Hawkins (45:29.305)
100%.

Torrey Hawkins (45:40.823)
taking it early, taking that ball early, getting it, and he should put on his back court, on his practice court, wherever in Germany or wherever their home base side is, put that Melbourne superimposed and every time he's on it, there should be a, he should have a shot spot that is telling him, dang it, I'm on it again, and make him stay within that and put a bunch of steel pokers and pikes and pails on, know, pointing at him if he backs up at all and just have.

Alvin Owusu (45:56.779)
Yeah

Alvin Owusu (46:07.532)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (46:10.197)
Misha back there poking at him. Move forward Sasha, move forward and have him hitting that ball. I'm telling you, the kid is fun to watch. Quick side note. I loved his defense of Novak after that match when the crowd, some of the crowd, not all, were starting to boo a little bit. Novak's easy to boo. We all know he can either love him or you hate him. But he was so quick to come to his friend and

Alvin Owusu (46:34.145)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (46:39.447)
fellow competitors defense. I Sasha to me has not has never been in my opinion one of the louder guys on tour and for him to make that stand as humble as he is as kind of almost self deferring as he is I was so impressed everybody else came out in the press later from McEnroe to Martina to whoever how about how yeah that bad but he did it right then

Alvin Owusu (47:08.705)
On the spot. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (47:08.821)
with the mic, court side. I mean, in the moment, I was so impressed. had so much, my stock, I always liked Sasha, but that, at that moment, he went through the thermometer on my, in my opinion, and spoke to the crowd about if anybody has given their life sentence, it's Novak. This guy has won tournaments hurt. If he can't go, he can't go. Trust me. And I just felt like he did, he,

put all of him aside and spoke to the crowd and really, I thought that exchange with him and Currier was a great one, but more importantly, I felt like he really was a professional there and in a nice way, he wasn't chiding them, but he was quick to point out, hey, you guys are a little bit out of place on that one. And I thought for another pro who's a rival, friendship or not, rival to speak that way to the crowd when he just won.

You know, he's still a little disappointed we didn't get to go, right? And then I just felt like I wanted to mention that because I thought that needed to be said how awesome that was for him, for the sport. And some of these guys, you appreciate how good a people they are. And just, you could just tell there was some good home training there. just, it was just a great comment in the moment that you couldn't have crafted. He didn't have a day or two to think about his response on social media. It was right then, right there. It was pure, was honest.

Alvin Owusu (48:11.138)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (48:33.174)
Right, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (48:37.105)
It was well delivered and timely, but most importantly, it was real. And I just wanted to make that point. Hats off to you, Sasha, Zverev. That was a great, great response. While still being respectful to the crowd, was very quick to point out, hey guys, we can't do that. This is one of the greats of the game. So it was big.

Alvin Owusu (48:55.406)
Yeah, I thought this was a good time to maybe share my own personal funny Sasha Zverev story, but I'm not going to. I'm gonna save it. I'm gonna save it. I'm gonna save it. It's a good one. I think about this story often. I occasionally will text my boy, Mahir Kumar, to laugh about this story, but I'm not gonna share it today. No, I'm not. We're gonna...

Torrey Hawkins (49:05.818)
Ugh!

Hahaha!

Torrey Hawkins (49:21.522)
Yeah, fair enough. You're leaving, you're dangling the cliffhanger. I love it.

Alvin Owusu (49:26.189)
We're gonna, we're gonna leave it there. We're gonna put a pin in it. We're gonna say, we're gonna bid farewell to my favorite city in the world, Melbourne, Australia. I love that place. No place I'd rather be in January of any, any year. Um, and it was, it was fun to, to kind of share it through this lens this year. This was, this was a lot of fun and we'll, uh, I think we'll get better, uh, with our, how we look at tournaments and whatnot moving forward. But it also allows us some space between this one and the next one to, uh, to kind of talk about the stuff in tennis that we want to talk about.

Torrey Hawkins (49:32.348)
Melbourne, same, same.

Alvin Owusu (49:55.829)
Right? We got some, we got some cool stuff coming up for the people in the next few weeks and months that I'm excited about. know you're excited about as well. But yeah, thank you all for rocking with us. Let us know what you think. And until the next time, Tory, always a pleasure.

Torrey Hawkins (49:55.878)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (50:11.278)
Alvin, always a pleasure brother, always a pleasure. Look forward to it.

Alvin Owusu (50:15.318)
Absolutely. All right, Peace.

Torrey Hawkins (50:16.796)
Peace.