Ep. 16: Behind The Tournament with Peter Lebedevs - Dallas Open

Alvin Owusu (00:00.29)
Eventually we'll get some sponsors and some ads here and we'll just start those mid rolls and pre rolls. That's where the money is. That's the good stuff. So Peter, you mentioned obviously it's about mid January right now when we're recording this and that means Dallas Open is starting about two weeks out right now, right?

Peter Lebedevs (00:19.857)
Right, February 1st through night, so we've got about 14 days, 15 days.

Alvin Owusu (00:24.32)
Okay, all right, all right. is, as Turned Red Director, what is your, like as you started getting into the two-week window, what is your, what do your responsibilities look like? What are the things that you've got your eye on right now?

Peter Lebedevs (00:36.146)
Right now we've got the player field so that side of it's pretty well covered. It's making sure that we're prepared for when the players arrive on a new venue that we're going to, know, Ford Center of the Star is great, but we've never done it and we actually haven't even started building the courts or even the VIP seating structure. We don't get to build that until January 22nd. So what we have

Torrey Hawkins (00:49.78)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (00:58.311)
wow.

Torrey Hawkins (00:59.9)
What's the site normally, Peter?

Peter Lebedevs (01:01.905)
It's a football field. It's the indoor practice field for the Dallas Cowboys.

Torrey Hawkins (01:07.603)
that's right. That's right. You guys are there at the practice. They're in Frisco. That's right.

Peter Lebedevs (01:11.119)
Yep, exactly. then during football season it's high school football. It's a 12,000 seat arena and I went to a state championship the other day and it was packed. 12,000 people watching high school football. To be clear, that's Texas.

Torrey Hawkins (01:15.452)
Mmm.

Torrey Hawkins (01:20.143)
Bye. Nice.

Torrey Hawkins (01:24.819)
Yeah, that's Texas. It's a religious outfit. Yeah, that's Texas.

Alvin Owusu (01:25.294)
That's Frisco at its finest right there.

Peter Lebedevs (01:28.177)
Absolutely and it was fantastic. It was great crowds, great game, lots of stuff. So for us we're bringing in a crew from arenas that is going to be building our stadium and they're going to be working for 10 days straight, two 12-hour shifts a day so they're going 24 hours straight.

Torrey Hawkins (01:45.415)
Well...

Peter Lebedevs (01:46.426)
And it's so, you know, what are my eyes on making sure that when they come in, they're ready to come in, everything is set up for them. Getting my staff in line to make sure that they're ready for all of the other aspects. And that goes from, you know, the little things of picking up the players from the airport and then the, making sure that in a new venue, all of this album is because it's a new venue. You know, it's not like a, like we did last year. There is no last year. And we have a lot of people saying, well, can you send me a picture of what it looks like right now? As I can see, was a picture of a football

Torrey Hawkins (02:09.756)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (02:16.339)
football field. those are the things the eyes are on, there's little details right now to make sure we start off and put our best foot forward on that. And also look, the other part about it from the business side is making sure we control the expenses because at this stage, everything is, hey, I need a little bit more to do that, I need a little bit more to do that, as we call it, the creep on the expenses.

Torrey Hawkins (02:39.073)
That's right. Scope creep.

Alvin Owusu (02:39.702)
Yep. Yep.

Peter Lebedevs (02:40.902)
The creep and it look it's all needed especially as a first year event because we've got to make sure that we do it right but at the same time there comes a time when as I told my team on our Tuesday call okay from now on you gotta you gotta check with me on anything we do and I'm sorry already that I'm gonna say no a lot more often than I have before so it's just that's so those are the those are the things we're looking at

Torrey Hawkins (02:44.687)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (02:58.605)
right.

Alvin Owusu (03:01.518)
So as, yeah, and so like moving from from SMU over to the Ford Center, going from a 250 to a 500, you know, besides the operational, you know, aspects of having a, you know, this being a first time at this, you know, facility, what are some of the other things that maybe you're excited about that you're gonna get a chance to do that you couldn't do previously?

Torrey Hawkins (03:03.931)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (03:24.529)
Well, look, we've we've got we go from a 2000 seat arena to a 6000 seat arena so we can do a lot more with groups and bring more people in to see and experience the tennis which is always you know, tennis is my heart. So having more people see watch become fans of tennis. That's always good. We're actually also putting a giant tent in front of the Ford Center, which is our fan zone. And that's going to be open to the public. So you don't have to have a ticket. again, encouraging people. That's something really new that we've never done before.

oh wow, just want to love to see how that turns out for us. We're going have a lot of tournament activations, know, those groups that are coming through and the wine partners that we have and some of the other partners are going to be in there as well as the fast serve contest. So Toru, we can get out there and see if you can still hit it at 140. Maybe, you used to, that's what I'm saying, let's see. So that's one of the things that's really new for us that we're able to do and also the level of production we have.

Torrey Hawkins (03:55.661)
there.

Torrey Hawkins (04:05.935)
All right.

Torrey Hawkins (04:11.136)
Yeah, used to, not anymore Peter.

Peter Lebedevs (04:24.339)
You know the back walls are nearly seven feet high so the ability to make a real great show out there is fantastic and on top of all of that partnering with the Dallas Cowboys is just a it's we're very fortunate to be able to do that and you know what they're providing for the facility and on Tuesday night the Dallas Cowboys are going to do a performance during the tournament and they're going to have a tunnel as a players walk out and if you haven't seen the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders in person it's

Torrey Hawkins (04:54.093)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (04:54.412)
It's fantastic, it's absolutely fantastic. those are some new and different things and yet we're still going to be giving a wild card to an SMU player, Travis Svajda is getting a wild card because we still as company, GS Sports and Entertainment, Gary Fuhrman has always wanted to promote and help college tennis and so when we run our events in Memphis, New York and Atlanta we've always done something for the college players and obviously a great story in Atlanta has been Chris Eubanks, you the

Alvin Owusu (05:05.176)
this.

Peter Lebedevs (05:24.135)
he got the wild card and got to the quarterfinals and had a great run. That's one of those things that we're proud of. So we've maintained some of those things as we grow to the new venue and new area.

Torrey Hawkins (05:37.024)
That's awesome.

Alvin Owusu (05:37.998)
Gotcha, gotcha. So you mentioned that this will be the first year with the fan zone, right? So I'm kind of curious with your background and your involvement in pro tournaments from Memphis to New York to Atlanta to Dallas, from your perspective, how has that fan experience changed or evolved over those four events over the years?

Peter Lebedevs (05:59.142)
Well look, it's always, as my good friend Eddie Gonzalez, who's being inducted into the Southern Hall of Fame this weekend, know, he's going to, always trying to create a fan zone. And the challenge has always been if you've got enough space to do it. And in Atlanta, when we building on our parking lot, we did a pretty good job. We did a decent job in New York with limited space. And we're doing a great job here because we have more space, you know, so that it's really comes down to that.

Alvin Owusu (06:06.018)
Well deserved.

Torrey Hawkins (06:16.363)
Alright.

Peter Lebedevs (06:29.145)
have the room to do it you can always fill it up and have the fans having a great time having the Jumbotrons everywhere and that sort of stuff. So we're really excited about this is this is the biggest fan zone we're going to have where it's 100 % about the fans. We'll still have the stage where we're to do the daily talks and those sorts of things those basics are still there but we're excited about what this is because look people they love tennis but they want to be entertained and just tennis alone it doesn't matter what sport it is you know if we look at any

Torrey Hawkins (06:30.805)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (06:43.147)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (06:58.958)
of the sports. They're always trying to do more things now. know, we look at exactly.

Torrey Hawkins (07:01.955)
Right All-Star weekend with basketball and It's a whole weekend now. I mean you got the slam dunk kept the dunk out this you got celebrities playing then you've got You you got the game in fact the game is actually tanked over the last, know You're doing the fan experience into that weekend has actually risen to your point do to interact due to that What's the word? I'm looking for that? interactivity give me a word Yeah

Peter Lebedevs (07:24.997)
FOMO, Fear of Missing Out, you know, gotta be there, gotta, you know, that part of it is what everybody wants. And you know what else is amazing is, and this is really since COVID for all the tournaments, a lot more people wanna go out and spend some money on a good time. So for us, the thing that's really gonna be changing for us in a big way is we have our box seats. So, you know, like you see tournaments, four seat boxes, and we're including food and beverage with them. And so they're gonna be having such a great experience.

Alvin Owusu (07:40.78)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (07:54.884)
you your box, get your front row ticket, you got your food and your drink all day and it's literally under your seat so you don't even have to walk more than like 10 steps. So the fans are really looking for that VIP type of experiences so we've got a really nice variety of different things. We have our boxes, we have our loge seats, we have our sideline club and we also have our 40 love club which is way up high but it's very private area which we're really know sub-zero.

Wolf is doing a great job with that one and we're all of our box holders are eating out there it's our Choctaw Club so there's a little bit of fun with some some tables in there and again it's all about making the fans have a good time so that's inside and then we've got the fan zone outside so as a business tennis has to do that has to create those fan zones and those things that drive interest and it's also what sponsors want. Sponsors want to be able to bring in lots of people that not only they are sitting in the stands and entertaining but they're able to you know bring

things in as well. They like to showcase their products and their things and those kind of fan zones really allow them to do that as well. All those VIP areas like I say with with our Chalk Tour Club they're going to be in there and this is what it's like. you know all of those things go together to weave a hopefully a fantastic week of tennis and fun for everybody.

Alvin Owusu (09:16.0)
Yeah. Yeah, go ahead, T.

Torrey Hawkins (09:17.179)
quick question before you go on. You've seen you've ran several years of tournaments Peter you've seen some good ones as well as at the bigger stage. two-part question what Grand Slam 1000 is your if you look at it as such your model experience right? One that you look at you mentioned Rotterdam right and has this that and third which is a know begin that's almost a rival in a sense for you right? That might be a tough one right?

Peter Lebedevs (09:44.9)
It is.

Torrey Hawkins (09:46.823)
is that's the first question. What is that model, if it is, why are they great? And you spoke with some of it, but maybe a bigger one. What are you, because I keep thinking that you're trying to become a smaller, you know, this or that, right? And then the second question, maybe a little bit more open-ended. What sport does tennis need to continue to emulate with its fan experience, with its, know, with the format so different, right? But, you know, are we

Will we ever talk about soccer's teaming right now? Right? On some stuff as far as the leagues and you got your country league, you got your champions league and so on. What sport are we best to emulate to really help propel our sport the next 10 to 20 years? Especially with, in my opinion, the upsurge of newer players and the absence of players that you all kind of knew about. In my opinion, you got to, at some point, got to revisit the model and ask is the model need to be

changed up. What do you thought?

Peter Lebedevs (10:48.179)
Look, it's

Every tournament is so unique. To say one is there are parts of every tournament that you want to have. So I would say like for instance Indian Wells. You go out to Indian Wells and where the players hang out out there on that big grass turf area out there and then the fans get to sit there and watch them. I want to take that from that event. I want to take the, we're talking about Rotterdam, the player experience for their food and their lounge and what they were doing. I want to take

Alvin Owusu (11:07.022)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (11:10.885)
Right. Right.

Peter Lebedevs (11:19.339)
that piece from it. It's a case of taking those things in Miami, their activation area down there with the activations there, triple story deck with one of their, I think it was a tequila partner, it's terrific. So I don't know if there's any one thing, what I've done with our team is we've started traveling with our VP of marketing, Justine Pletnik, and really because she's not from tennis, she comes from Philadelphia and working at the

at Spectrum where she was over multiple sports. So she comes with a different lens, which is great because that's what we need exactly. Because look, I'm an old man. I think one way and you know it's black and white and you know got to dot your own across your team. She's like, well, we can make the T bend a little bit, can't we Peter? And that's what we need. And it's interesting you talk about sports that we could emulate.

Torrey Hawkins (11:56.164)
Right. Better actually.

Torrey Hawkins (12:08.791)
Yeah, right.

Peter Lebedevs (12:15.705)
I don't know if there's again one thing I'm sort of hedging my bet here a little bit but one sport that I look at and it's not well known in the US is cricket and cricket was probably more traditional than tennis. They'd have a five day game, what they call a test match and after five days it could end in a draw. What sport do you play for five days end in a draw?

Torrey Hawkins (12:24.579)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (12:30.531)
those tests yeah

That's it.

Peter Lebedevs (12:39.154)
Here's what came out of it. ended up trying to, okay, how do we make it more fun? Well, number one, you got to shorten the length of it. So they came up with this program called One Day Internationals and they put names on the back of players. They put them in colored uniforms. They did it at night, which had never been done before. And you know, the traditionalist, oh, this is terrible. Well, guess what? That was a home run. And so then said, let's take it one more level. Let's make it a 2020. And so now you can do it in three hours. And I went to a 2020 game back

home in Australia a couple of years ago, packed because you know you got three hours, it's activity, you've got all the things. So we need to, for us, we need to look at our sport and make sure that we can control the sort of the the atmosphere of it and the timing of it because look the Grand Slams were there three out of five sets, fantastic. You don't want to touch that, that's traditional but I think we need to look at it and the doubles has done it you know the the no ad and the tiebreakers for the third because we want to get into

Torrey Hawkins (13:12.034)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (13:39.519)
format that people can absorb and enjoy enough of. So I think we need to look at that. I don't have the answers but I do think we need to look at it because look let's let's be very clear when football plays and it's kickoff at 12.01 that boot is in the ball at 12.01. Tennis walk on as it's 12.01 but then they got to change their shoes and then they got to do their water and that so TV doesn't know when you go on TV could be anywhere from 12.07 to 12.20.

Torrey Hawkins (13:55.829)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (14:01.474)
Hehehehe

Torrey Hawkins (14:08.34)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (14:08.365)
And TV, they, every minute is accounted for in it. And that's, know, so we've got to become more...

Torrey Hawkins (14:14.304)
Yeah.

TV friendly and that. Sure.

Peter Lebedevs (14:18.117)
Broadcast friendly we've become a you know those are the things we've got to keep working on for us to do and and look I can tell you that there are things Being worked on by the ATB WTA and all the slams it they're trying to work on some things So I think over the next few years you're going to see as a sport All of the the leaders are getting together and trying to make things happen So I'm I'm encouraged by what we're trying to do. It doesn't happen overnight. That's that's the you know, like anything in life. It doesn't really happen overnight

Torrey Hawkins (14:44.01)
Sure. Sure.

Peter Lebedevs (14:47.844)
overnight. But we look, we as a company by upgrading to that 500 we believe in the product, we believe in creating that more a product, raising the value of the product and giving the opportunities for people to see the best players and keep doing that more. So we believe in it and we think it's going to happen.

Alvin Owusu (14:49.07)
You know the two

Alvin Owusu (15:11.202)
You know, what's the, what is the process you mentioned, you know, the recent upgrade to the 500. So what is the, what is the process of, know, obviously, you know, Dallas for Dallas to run our beloved Atlanta open had to die. what is the, we all, we all feel away about it, but, yeah. What was that process going from a two 50 to a 500? What does that look like?

Peter Lebedevs (15:24.023)
That's a hard word. That's a hard word.

Peter Lebedevs (15:31.954)
I

Well, as the ATP is trying to increase the premium products out there in terms of tournaments, so they said, all right, we want to take some 250s off the schedule and create two 500s. One can be in February and one can be in April. But there were some requirements and you had to own two tennis tournaments already or operate or whatever different words you had. we said, OK, we will put our bid in and we partnered with the Cowboys to put a bid in this is nearly two and a half

half years ago. Well, there were 17 bids for those two spots. there's no chance we were going to hang out. I say no chance. There was no expectations that we were going to get it. There was some, as you can imagine, some amazing bids from around the world. The one in April had to be in Europe. The one in February could be in any part of the world. So in the end, there was lots of back and forth. ATP with the board, the players board and the tournament council and trying to come together. And in the end, they gave there was

Torrey Hawkins (16:03.581)
Over.

Peter Lebedevs (16:32.374)
so many great bids they gave two 500s in February and then they gave one in April so we were lucky enough to be one of the three out of the 17 but to do that they had to take off the 250s and so Newport went away as well.

You're going to see it not this year, but I think it's in 2026. The way the calendar works as well, there's not enough weeks. There's not well, there's not enough weeks now between like I think in 2026, it goes Wimbledon, DC, Canada, CINCE like there would have been a year that Newport and Atlanta potentially would have had to be on the same week and then be one year because there'd be none of us. So that's sort of what the ATP, they're forward thinking. They've got the, you know,

Torrey Hawkins (16:57.661)
It's an extra week. Yeah. Okay.

Peter Lebedevs (17:21.221)
forward thinking glasses going on. So and again we are committed to helping improve American tennis because when when GF Sports bought those events part of the opportunity and part of the the deal was we would keep the events in the United States and not sell them overseas and you know Gary was very happy to do that because he believes in tennis he he owns and operates seven clubs in New Jersey the Center Court system so his his love of tennis goes back many many years and so when the idea of we can put an

Torrey Hawkins (17:49.468)
Good friend.

Peter Lebedevs (17:51.044)
another 500 in the United States so all of the American players can come through and not have to travel. They can get, know, between us and Washington, they can play two 500s, get the points, get the prize money. So it was really, you know, combination of things. But at the same time, we didn't know until, you know, the Nth hour about 18 months ago at the US Openers when it finally became official that we were going to get one. So it was bittersweet for Atlanta.

Torrey Hawkins (17:57.296)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (18:03.395)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (18:19.757)
for us to leave but I'll be honest I think the fans really celebrated this year and you we tried to make it a celebration of the event of the years we're not leaving because it wasn't successful we're not leaving because the fans didn't support us and the sponsors weren't there we left for one reason and that was because it was required to move up and everybody says well why didn't you move that to you know Atlanta why didn't upgrade that wasn't an option it had to be in that time and we happen to have an event in February that again was

Torrey Hawkins (18:33.636)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (18:44.558)
wasn't an option,

Torrey Hawkins (18:46.52)
Right. No. I can't see it outdoor event in Atlanta in February, by the way. That would be a tough crap shoot of a.

Peter Lebedevs (18:49.721)
by chance, that's how it came about. It's a lot of work.

Alvin Owusu (18:56.536)
Eheh.

Peter Lebedevs (18:57.702)
Yeah, no, think even back in the day when it was in April, was still little bit of an up and down when it was the old AT &T challenge back in the day.

Torrey Hawkins (19:02.232)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Atlanta club, Wait.

Alvin Owusu (19:04.366)
At the Atlanta Athletic Club, I think it was, right up north there. Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (19:07.195)
Yeah. I'm not sure if that's good or bad that I can remember those things we all do. That's how old we are, but you know, that's okay.

Alvin Owusu (19:12.334)
I remember watching Malivia Washington play there. that was one of my first tournaments as kid that my dad took me to. So fond memories.

Torrey Hawkins (19:16.58)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (19:19.992)
Yep, was big stuff. Big stuff. That some fun times. know what I mean? Peter, is tennis from your seat, tournament, rev, attendance, et cetera, is it increasing? You mentioned the commitment that the owners are having, which is awesome, by the way. He's got a vested interest and God bless him for that. We need more of that right here in the States. Is it getting?

Peter Lebedevs (19:20.077)
Let's go.

Torrey Hawkins (19:48.589)
better year over year. know that at the end of the day, there's a business end of it. You got to make sure that's everybody looking at bottom line and year over year and year to date and is it improving or the comprehensive net at the end of those tournaments continuing is New York outperforming this one. I know this is a new one here and you know without getting in the weeds with the specifics. Is it getting better?

Peter Lebedevs (20:12.865)
I believe so. If you look at almost all of the tournaments, their ticket sales have all gone up over the last three or four years. Again, everybody's adapting, creating more of those VIP opportunities in that and making sure they get the correct players in there because all that player field. But look, the business is going up. TV is becoming ...

a bigger factor globally, not so much necessarily in the US, but globally, know, tennis is the number of sort of two, three sport in the world. So, you know, there are a lot of positives, but I think just about all of the tournaments are seeing improvements, you know, year over year. It does still come down to if you have your title sponsors and your sponsors, know, and you've got to keep creating a value proposition for them. But there are enough sponsors out there that are coming forward and supporting and the sport itself can

provide those opportunities. But overall the tournaments are improving. They're not improving hugely necessarily, some better than others, but the trend is upward. So I feel good about our sport, I really do. And the changes that are happening, the thousands of events going a little bit longer, so we have more days of that premium event, having another 500, there's only 16 in the world, but having another one in the US helps that premium product in the United States and create that interest.

On top of that, look we've got a great crew of American women and a great crew of American men coming up right now. know, the Lerner team just beat Danil Medvedev at the Australian Open in five sets. Now, you know, that's a huge win for him, obviously. And so he's a guy that, he's very young guy, he's only 18 I think. And so he's coming up and then we've already got our other guys, Taylor Fritz, career high of number four in the world. And I was there in Turin when he got to the final. Fantastic.

Alvin Owusu (21:44.622)
Yeah, that was wild.

Peter Lebedevs (22:02.579)
So as we have more star players in America in that, it's definitely helping our product and making it a, people are seeing it more. So I think overall that the sport is in good shape. Got to always watch the pennies and the dimes, know, no doubt about it. But I think tennis is in pretty good shape.

Torrey Hawkins (22:13.45)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (22:21.25)
You you mentioned, know, Tori mentioned or asked earlier what, you know, what sport is tennis kind of trying to emulate right now from the live experience. And it got me thinking about the ones that were mentioned, Indian Wells, Miami. And I think both of those benefit from their, almost their topography, right? They're both outdoor events. They both have these massive layouts, right? And I think the tournaments that I've been to, you know, whether it be Miami or maybe not so much Wimbledon, but the U.S. Open for sure.

they, give this feel of you're being, you're like, you're at a tennis festival, very, very much. like a music festival, right. Whereas music festival, you can go, you can go see the bands perform, but also in between time being there is a good time. so I'm curious as to like the challenges that you guys maybe have seen, where like Miami is outdoor. It's fun. know, the weather's great. but I've been to Turin and I've, I've been to the Paris open and the Paris masters. was there.

this past year, it's this year, yeah. No, this is their last year in Bursy. Last year in Bursy, yeah. So I, you know, I'm a tennis junkie, I'll watch tennis anywhere, but indoor tennis is not, it's not fun. not, it doesn't give you that festival feel, if you will. So how do you guys combat that? know, you know, the Ford Center is a brand new facility, but how do you guys combat that aspect of it?

Peter Lebedevs (23:20.334)
okay, this year, okay. That's a new, no, that wasn't the new facility. Okay, yes, yes, yes.

Peter Lebedevs (23:46.642)
Look, you've got to get a little lucky, have a great match. That's number one. You've got to have more activation. So like as I said earlier, our back wall, our digital back wall is seven feet high. can't really, I think it's one, it's 2.5 meters. So it's a much higher, so we can create a show on the court. Like if you look at the Australian opener right now, their back wall is doing things and making it fun, making it interactive, doing things on the court. So we look at a sport like

Torrey Hawkins (23:50.515)
.

Torrey Hawkins (24:08.752)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (24:16.367)
basketball. What happens on every time out? Something, something. Shoot out t-shirts into the crowd, know, whatever it is. Cheerleaders come out, whatever. know, shoot a hoop or something. We've got to do more of that and that's what we're doing in Dallas.

Alvin Owusu (24:20.259)
Something.

Torrey Hawkins (24:21.776)
Yep. Yep.

Peter Lebedevs (24:33.116)
done more of that and we did that Atlanta lot too you know is the last couple of years is really just doing those things so that people when they sit in their seats and they see the ball kids run out with things in their hands I know that seems so simple but it creates more of a fun atmosphere I'm gonna get something for nothing this is great even even your VIP seats in the front row who you know getting a free t-shirt really is not that bit they love doing it you know everybody loves something for nothing type thing and so it's it is for an indoor event it is a little bit harder but it comes more in the

Torrey Hawkins (24:47.42)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (24:55.058)
Yeah. 100%. 100%.

Peter Lebedevs (25:03.059)
You know the light show and that sort of stage Idea, you know for us even the concept of we were looking at doing theater style lighting for our court if we could which is you know The only thing that's in the light is the court We weren't able to do it this year It's it's a it's a very expensive and it's a time thing as well because we don't have the venue You know for a month in advance two months in advance to pull these things up But that's how an indoor event does it and I'll tell you what if you want to go to an event Alvin

Alvin Owusu (25:14.382)
Okay. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (25:26.171)
Well, on.

Peter Lebedevs (25:32.979)
Go to Cincinnati what they're doing in Cincinnati and what the the new ownership group there from from Bennevar and what Bob Moran is doing and the plans they've got It's going to be it's going to be one you need to go and see because they're really doing some improvements for that for the fans

Alvin Owusu (25:38.371)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (25:46.95)
That one eludes me just because of the time of year. It's usually right around when my kids start school. that's a tricky one for me. it's, I'm a big fan of, I'm a go for a day kind of guy. I go to Miami for a day. I'm coming to your event for a day. I'm gonna sneak out to Charleston for a day. Australia, that was a week. not, you can't.

Peter Lebedevs (25:53.419)
yeah is, right, it's a little bit like you just sneak up there for a day.

Torrey Hawkins (25:57.914)
No.

Peter Lebedevs (26:09.809)
Yeah, it takes you two and a half days to get there, you know?

Torrey Hawkins (26:10.602)
You can't sneak till I'll show you for a day. Take your day to get there.

Alvin Owusu (26:14.85)
A quick trip is like seven days. Yeah, but like the one thing you did mention about being able to use the lights as a unique feature. I will say that was a positive of the Paris Masters event in that I got a chance to see Impesci Pericard play and Arthur, I saw him surf, Francis. You know, I always say he moves a lot better than you think for a 6'8 guy.

Peter Lebedevs (26:35.023)
You mean you got to see him serve? Got it.

Peter Lebedevs (26:44.335)
Now he does.

Alvin Owusu (26:44.642)
But between himself and I think Artrofice played the match before in front of a French crowd, I was telling, I think my wife was next to me, was like, I've never heard a tennis match this loud. It got really, really loud. So that is unique. You can't really do that unless you're maybe in Arthur Ashe or something like that. So I think that's the other side of the coin.

Peter Lebedevs (26:57.532)
Great, I love it.

Peter Lebedevs (27:08.261)
Yeah, you want to create that natural vibe in there. when, two years ago when we were at SMU.

John Isner was playing Wu Yibing in the final and we were at, it was the third set tiebreaker and I think we were at seven all or nine all or something and everybody in the crowd just started stomping on the stands. It was like that just... and so they weren't doing it for somebody, they were doing it for the whole sort of atmosphere and I was standing next to someone and said that sends shivers down my spine because that was people getting into our sport and even though look

Alvin Owusu (27:32.461)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (27:44.438)
Right.

Peter Lebedevs (27:45.784)
John lived a mile away, not even a mile away from SMU and still does. But it was they were just enjoying the sport and the spectacle and that sort of stuff. And that's, as you say, you you want to create those sorts of moments when it's loud. again, you know, I mentioned Eddie again, Eddie and I both like, hey, we should have more noise. We should have more fan interaction. You can't shoot a free throw without somebody yelling and screaming. Tennis, we have to be really quiet. Yeah, I'm not saying we yell and scream doing anything wrong.

Torrey Hawkins (28:11.285)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (28:15.667)
But we need to have a little bit and and again as the the rules makers are allowing a little more free movement during play We actually one of the things we did at SME last year is we had Food and beverage delivery to every box seat in the venue during the matches during the points These guys are taught to stay low keep underground not disrupt play and not one time in the entire event Did we have the umpire say oh, please stop and everybody's getting food delivered to their seat? It was

Torrey Hawkins (28:44.565)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (28:45.761)
We had to tell the umpires and tell the players ahead of time, guys, if you see a little bit, don't panic. And players were great. They loved it. So it was all good.

Torrey Hawkins (28:53.353)
It keeps keeps button the seats, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's the perfect situation.

Peter Lebedevs (28:55.834)
Exactly. look, if you guys ever if you ever go to Madrid, Alvin, I went, I was lucky enough to go there this last year. And Gerard does a terrific job there. And people complain about sometimes early on, there's not a lot of people in the seats. You wouldn't believe the VIP restaurant experience that's happening on the backside of it. I see why people are taking their time to get to the seats. is it's like a I think it's a two story 17 restaurants that are spread out there. You know, your VIP package is great. And it's where

Alvin Owusu (29:13.653)
Ha ha.

Peter Lebedevs (29:25.187)
everybody's hanging out and it's really good but they're not in the seats so this is trade-off you know they love doing it they're a part of the event but they're not in the seats maybe in the first round is that good or bad yeah you so it's always this you know and you can't have that many seat fillers on site you know like they do at the Academy Awards shows or something like that on TV but

Torrey Hawkins (29:33.375)
Right, right, they're playing, but the TV, the optics aren't so good. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (29:38.07)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (29:46.132)
You can fill it up with some junior academies if you can sneak those kids out of school for a little bit.

Torrey Hawkins (29:49.118)
Hahaha

Peter Lebedevs (29:49.948)
You know you absolutely can. Look, and I think you just actually mentioned something that I think that...

should happen more of. Coaches should take, you know they do all these clinics and all this stuff. If there's a tournament around your part of the world, you should say, okay I'm going to take my $50 lesson that I get. One time I'm going to inspire these kids. I got into tennis from winning free tickets from a radio station around the corner and I went up to the West Australian Open. Ray Ruffles played Ross Case and Ray Ruffles used a green Yonex OPS racket. I thought it was a cool

Torrey Hawkins (30:25.993)
Thank

Peter Lebedevs (30:27.155)
coolest thing, I love the sport, that's how fell into it. So I think more academies in those places need to do these inspiring things with their kids taken to a tournament and look at the practice courts. Like for us in Dallas this year, when you're there you're going to see all four practice courts. You can stand right behind them and you can watch those giant serves, watch those guys move, all of those things happen. We need to do more of that and everybody, give us free tickets, we'd love to come down.

Torrey Hawkins (30:30.237)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (30:45.678)
That's fantastic.

Torrey Hawkins (30:51.965)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (30:57.028)
It goes both ways. give you a discount, give you a package on it, like inspire the kids. That's how you do it. You know, I used to back in the day when I was coaching, I'd take them to a college match. Kids love that. You know, they all played college. They go and watch the doubles, that short doubles and boom, everybody's, oh, this is awesome. You coach, we love it. After the doubles, we'd go get a sandwich. And by the time we got back, we're in the interesting part of the singles for the college match. But, you know, we need to do the tennis coaches out there need to support the events and not always say, you know, because I've heard

Torrey Hawkins (31:02.685)
Right.

Peter Lebedevs (31:27.011)
a lot of times over all years, you know she'd give us tickets. Well you you guys could support the event too and we'll always give you discount but do that for your players. It's what inspires them. I mean you listen to Mike and Bob Bryan and you listen to what Wayne used to do. It was all about taking to those things and getting a love of the sport and a love of those things and like you look at Mike and Bob now with their kids and that they're continuing that. It's fantastic story.

Torrey Hawkins (31:32.624)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (31:37.608)
100%.

Alvin Owusu (31:51.244)
You know, I'll pat Tory Hawkins himself on the back, in times when I worked for him, he encouraged us to take kids to events. So I remember taking kids on two different occasions. The first one was over down to Athens for the NCAAs when they were over at Dan McGill. And that was a, you know, we just had a conversation with Bobby Reynolds, you know.

Peter Lebedevs (32:07.057)
Fantastic.

Alvin Owusu (32:13.062)
yesterday as it was and we took some kids down to watch the national championship between Illinois and Vanderbilt and I think that was probably 2004 or something like that and it was it was amazing and then also we would take kids over to to the I think when the Atlanta Open was up north in Alpharetta at the time yeah so it's it's important

Torrey Hawkins (32:22.162)
it.

Peter Lebedevs (32:33.709)
back in the day. Now I got a question for you. Did you actually watch the very last match of that Vanderbilt Illinois match? Hang your hands, stop, stop, before you go. No, no, wait, wait, wait, wait. I coached the kid that played for Vanderbilt in the deciding match.

Alvin Owusu (32:39.732)
my god, okay, okay, so, this is so good.

Alvin Owusu (32:47.31)
No, okay, so I was this was this is perfect. So I'm sitting I'm standing there I'm right behind court three right and Bobby was standing right next to me because he finished up on court one already And so we got that straight line site down to court six Right and so that all this is fantastic. This is one of the best tennis memories of my life the the the look on Bobby's face when that call got overruled I I've never felt something for someone

Peter Lebedevs (32:58.576)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (33:17.037)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (33:17.326)
So in Tori, I didn't bring it up with Bobby yesterday, but holy moly, man, that was that was that match like set a fire and maybe I had one of my players with me at the time as well. And it was it was amazing. I'm like, this is what college tennis is all about. And that player went on to play college tennis as well.

Torrey Hawkins (33:20.752)
Yeah, next time.

Peter Lebedevs (33:32.761)
Now, could you see the call? it a good or should he have been overruled or not?

Alvin Owusu (33:37.326)
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was in, it was in, because this was when they were calling to my cell, so he pulls the out call and then umpire with the quick overrule, like nope, and that was a fun one. That was a fun one.

Peter Lebedevs (33:43.462)
Okay.

Peter Lebedevs (33:51.73)
Okay, so actually his name is Lewis Smith and I coach him as a junior. Great athlete, course. Picked up tennis, been playing it, but was a starter for football both ways. Starting point guard at his high school team. Got tennis late, went to Vandy. Terrific situation and he now lives in Dallas and he and I went out to lunch a few months ago. So it's great. I have to tell him.

Alvin Owusu (34:04.903)
geez.

Alvin Owusu (34:13.934)
It's fantastic. Well, don't point me out when I'm in town though if we're both on site at the same time.

Peter Lebedevs (34:19.629)
I said, guy said the ball was... He said it was in, man. I don't know.

Alvin Owusu (34:26.838)
that's a good time. You know, in the time that you've kind of spent in a few different cities promoting professional tournaments, what do you, I mean, what would you, in your opinion, how, what makes or breaks a tournament from a standpoint of getting people to actually come out? Like what are the, what are kind of the challenges or unique hurdles for, you know, Memphis versus Atlanta versus New York versus Dallas?

Peter Lebedevs (34:50.994)
Look, that's a great question, because each community is a little bit different. Number one, you've got to give them a good product.

Like you go to New York, which has the US open, you know, it's got to be a good product and it's got to be good value for money there because they already have something. We came to SMU in Texas and let me tell you, I always heard and Torrey, know you've heard it, Texas section really strong and that sort of stuff and love the tennis because I'd never been there much. I didn't know. They love their tennis. The stories of the days of WCT tennis with Lamar Hunt, right on the SMU campus at Moody Coliseum. The support that we

Torrey Hawkins (35:22.346)
Yeah, Lamar Hunt. Yep.

Peter Lebedevs (35:28.147)
had from day one because they wanted to see that level. There was a great challenger that happened at T-Bar They did a great job up there, but then exactly, exactly, it was right before.

Torrey Hawkins (35:36.786)
Challenger years ago. Sco played it several times. remember it. Didn't the guy that owned the Stars, didn't he run it back in those days, Peter? Or could be... Or if not, was a big... I know he was a big promoter. If he wasn't the owner of it, I know he was a title sponsor.

Peter Lebedevs (35:45.329)
can't remember exactly those...

Peter Lebedevs (35:53.062)
They look they did a great job So when you come there the market loved tennis and it's been it's been growing ever since and then we've got to continue to put out a good product of Doing those things and Atlanta the same thing Atlanta is a smart tennis crowd So, you know, we ended up creating the you know The women's the women's event that we started doing and then bringing in you know bringing in Venus and Jeannie for year one and Doing those things and then adding in some VIP seating So you've got to look at your crowd and sort of figure out

what it is that you can do and not try and be arrogant and say this is how we do it. Okay, this is how we did it here. Well, we're up here now. We've got to do it a little bit differently. And I think those are the things in all those cities, but...

Texas has been terrific for us. They really have embraced it and there hasn't been a person that hasn't said great things about tennis period, which is always good for us. And Atlanta was the same. The Atlanta tennis people, as I said, very smart. So you couldn't pull the wool over their eyes and try and sell them something that wasn't good. The hardest thing for us as tournament promoters though is we promote a player. And we did it this year in Atlanta. We promoted Venus and Venus was

Torrey Hawkins (36:46.849)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (36:56.718)
You

Peter Lebedevs (37:08.817)
coming but she hurt her abdomen and you know she she was unable to make it she pulled out of some things she's having to do at the US Open as well but that happens at the last second and then the amount of times online people say you guys you know you traded out you promoted this and that didn't happen

Torrey Hawkins (37:27.019)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (37:27.107)
And we never do, none of us ever do, because that's the last thing we want to do. When Riley Opelka came to our office, Eddie and I were in the office and Riley comes in the time he had to pull out before he played his match and his hip was bad. As we now know, two years later, he's only just coming back. He felt bad, but he has to pull out. And then the crowd's going, well, hang on, you had six guys on your poster and only one of them actually made it to the bell. And we're like, promise you, they all wanted to be here. They're all trying to be here. And so that's the

Torrey Hawkins (37:31.081)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (37:42.403)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (37:50.245)
Sure. Yeah. Right.

Peter Lebedevs (37:56.984)
biggest thing and all you have to have to do is a couple of years of you know negative stuff like that which is out of our control and it can hurt the reputation of a tournament but that's that's out of our control but at the end we know that if we keep trying to do it and do the right things and you know like when Nick Kyrgios couldn't play in Atlanta his last year that he came there couldn't play singles.

Torrey Hawkins (38:03.477)
Right.

Peter Lebedevs (38:21.209)
and he came out and he said sorry and all that sort of stuff which is terrific because that's always hard for the players but then he stayed and played doubles and of course Atlanta and doubles him and Tenasi Kokonakis winning Atlanta what a great way you know he stayed there didn't leave early to go to the next event and that's when Tenasi lost to Andres Martin and you know so Tenasi just had a very very tough loss to him Nick wasn't playing you would think they would say if they didn't love tennis and want to be there you would say sorry guys we're going we're

Torrey Hawkins (38:34.812)
Yeah. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (38:48.327)
Right.

Peter Lebedevs (38:51.136)
the next one but they stayed there the whole time played the dubs so you know the players do and you have to just keep creating that great product number one and and keep trying to do different things with that product you know whether it adding the ladies whether it be adding you know like we did this year we did the champions challenge having John and Andy and Mike and Bob in there and you know they were all talking a little bit of you know smack to each other and enjoyed that sort of competition because they're still you know all the athletes are still very competitive all the time but you got to

Torrey Hawkins (38:52.776)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (39:02.214)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (39:13.679)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (39:19.483)
Always. Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (39:21.009)
do something different and that's what we have to do and find your market.

Torrey Hawkins (39:26.181)
I was there the year that he played Andres. I was there the year I coached Andres for several years. I worked with Cole Gromley the year he played Umber. That was a great match to watch him out there. He actually took him to a tiebreak in the first round and then Umber finally got over jet lag and then he shifted gears on with the second set. But been there for a few matches. was there at Eubanks, right at Eubanks year when he got the wild card.

Peter Lebedevs (39:28.721)
Mmm.

Peter Lebedevs (39:35.653)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (39:51.128)
He beat Taylor Fritz in Atlanta. I that's his claim.

Torrey Hawkins (39:54.556)
I'm gonna tell you the max that that max but the match I want to say was the second to last year that I took you know our club members to there was a knockdown dragout 7-6 tiebreaker in the third with one defending champion John Isner and one Ben Shelton and everybody is like who's this and I'm like guys watch out for this kid this kid's gonna be pretty good they're like what's his name again and I'm like

You don't even know what you just watched. You know what I mean? I'm like, this kid's gonna be good. This had to be two years ago. And I'm not sure if Ben got a wild card into that tournament or what. I thought so.

Peter Lebedevs (40:33.686)
22 he did get the wild card NCAA champion he got the wild chat and obviously the story with Brian being the Georgia Tech coach and winning the NCAAs and he just won the NCAAs with his son You know that was you Eddie did a great job and said hang on I I think this would be good we had a wild card I said yeah that could be a great story and John let me tell you I spoke to John and I still speak to John all the time you know here in Dallas Because he works with us on our Dallas Open. He's like yeah, you know when he walked up I'm glad I got that win because

Torrey Hawkins (40:39.964)
100%. 100%.

Torrey Hawkins (40:59.814)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (41:03.259)
I get too many wins over that guy in the next little bit because he is

Torrey Hawkins (41:05.443)
John was that close to collapsing. was tired. It was a long match and Ben was slinging it. I mean, as, as he, as only Ben can. And I remember watching, I've known Brian since, since I was playing college. He had just got done. not that much younger than Brian. went to school a little late. So Brian was, he and Kenny were starting in the early nineties when I was transferred to Georgia state, he and Brian, he and Kenny were taking over as coaches, you know, but they to plan together and plan for tech for years. And.

Peter Lebedevs (41:10.41)
yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (41:35.13)
I remember talking to Brian after I'm like, dude, I'm like, your kids like, he's pro ready. And he was, know, as Brian always does, very, you know, very, very understand. Hey, thanks. So, hey, he's working on it. I'm like, dude, forget the hard stuff. This kid's ready, you know? And, and it wasn't just John, cause it's, he's a tough matchup for John. I know the tennis part of it, but I was just looking at the level of his game and his points. I'm like, this kid.

Peter Lebedevs (41:45.134)
Understated, yep.

Alvin Owusu (41:49.159)
He's working hard.

Torrey Hawkins (42:01.37)
It's easy to go away. I've seen some players of mine that play top college ball. Cole's a good player. I just is a good player. These guys, they played a good set of tennis. They didn't, they're not pro ready. This kid was pro ready. And I was like staring down the barrel of bat. I'm like, kid's gonna be all right. Sure enough, a year later, I got members coming to me. It not the kid we saw? I'm like, yes, that all of it. I had to do a little write up to help you understand what you were watching. You know what mean? Anyway, it's a.

It's some great things you mentioned, Peter. I'm going to take maybe a little different tangent. Are there too many tournaments or are there not enough? I want your take as a tournament promoter, tournament director. And in that, I want you to kind of speak to, is it just times of year that there's too many or there's not enough? Is the tour a little too long?

And I'm getting at just in a way of and just sort of an overall arching answer not not in the weeds but I'm just wanting to know from a standpoint of You know, I've got this recurring theme Alvin I talk all the time and you know and I know it's impossible if there were a tennis commissioner Right that ran that ran the gamut of TV and his whole goal is to maximize viewership, right? their seasons most

sports have seasons. feel baseball is too long, right? I feel basketball, I really feel, is almost too long with their 82 games. It's tennis with their, let's face it, it's done in their 40 plus weeks, right? For the actual season, maybe longer now with the Masters. So that's where I'm headed with this.

Peter Lebedevs (43:36.722)
It's really, yeah, look, I don't think the difference on some of those sports like you talked about, basketball, baseball, they're just in the US. Our sport is truly a global sport. So we chase the sun, basically. They're in Oz, it's hot in Australia. They're not in the US over the December, you know, or Europe. So our sport...

travels and follows the sun and stays outside mostly like Dallas is the only indoor event in the United States the entire year. So there have been too many events when you start getting three 250s on the same week and things like that. So that's what happened. That was one of the reasons they upgraded to the 500s because they took some events off the calendar that way. And that I do think is a good thing because

Torrey Hawkins (44:12.024)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (44:18.775)
Right.

Right.

Peter Lebedevs (44:26.403)
what ends up happening, players get dinged up over the year and that sort of stuff. they're working towards and really working well with the players and working hard on that to create a calendar that works for all of them.

Torrey Hawkins (44:29.142)
Sure.

Peter Lebedevs (44:39.09)
The challenging part is at the end of the year when they're a little dinged up but they're chasing those points to make Turin. They're chasing the points for that so they play a little extra. That back end is a lot of guys but you also see guys pull out because they're hurt and things like that. So I think the season is okay. I really do. They've extended the thousands being longer just means the guys have more days between matches so and again look one player says I like playing back to back and the other guys I like having the day between.

Torrey Hawkins (44:48.361)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (45:02.664)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (45:08.821)
Sure. Right.

Peter Lebedevs (45:09.297)
there's no perfect answer. But I think the sport itself is in a pretty good position, total number of matches and that sort of stuff. think the sport is okay. Where the challenge then comes up though, of course, is all of the exhibitions.

You've got your UTS that is happening during the year. Then you've got the event that happened at Madison Square Garden, the event that happened I think in Charlotte where Ben played and Carlos played, or it Francis and Carlos and it was Ben and Carlos at Madison Square Garden. Great events, fantastic for the fans, but when the players complain about a longer season...

Alvin Owusu (45:39.054)
Carlos. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (45:50.335)
Hmm.

Peter Lebedevs (45:51.408)
You sort of, know, as the promoters were like, well, you know, they come and they say, well, Peter, I'm dinged up. If you hadn't played that event, you know, it's not as simple as that. And I'm not saying that. But so there's this balancing act. But look, the guys and the girls on the WTSA got to make their money. So if somebody wants to pay them to come and play a great event, you can't say no. So it's a balance. And the good players shouldn't say the good players, the top players have to balance it. They, you know, when they get their schedule, they plug in the slams.

Torrey Hawkins (46:05.736)
Yeah. Right.

Peter Lebedevs (46:19.195)
Then they plug in the thousands that they have to play and then they'll plug in their lead ups to the slam so they're ready for them and then they'll plug in the other events. But you know if you get into the final every week you can't play more than 20 events because you know the length of them so I don't think the season is too long but to your point of when you asked if there's a commissioner many years ago I asked that question to Donald Young back in Memphis and the funny thing is what Donald said which I was not ready for his answer he said I wish you used the

Torrey Hawkins (46:32.743)
Right.

Peter Lebedevs (46:49.132)
same ball every week. That's what I would do. Uniform the ball. And the ATP listening to the players and the problem, they're actually doing that now with their their unifying swings of tennis. Like for instance, this swing that we are a part of in in this part of the year, it's going to be a Dunlop swing. And they've taken all the manufacturers and asked them for their input and things like that. And so the ATP has put together and so we are using Dunlop balls. We always have but now we will. And during the summer, I believe it's Wilson

Alvin Owusu (46:51.734)
Oy.

Torrey Hawkins (46:53.005)
and

Peter Lebedevs (47:19.235)
Leading up to the US Open so the players each week are using the same ball and that's and that's happening and look I'll tell you hot off the presses We have to now use a an online system to do practice courts for the players

Torrey Hawkins (47:22.183)
Same ball. Like that.

Peter Lebedevs (47:34.002)
And so what's being done on that is of course player injuries, overwork, overuse type things. So now there's going to be a database that's created of okay, Torrey's on the court two hours a day every single day for 20 weeks of the year. Torrey's doing too much. why he always breaks down in September, you know, making this up. But they're really doing a good thing to help the players and that'll give us data to find out, yeah, are they practicing too much? Is the season too long? So I think those things are happening. I don't think the season's

Torrey Hawkins (47:34.035)
Okay.

Peter Lebedevs (48:03.985)
too long. I think we're cutting it down to about the right. Previously, it had been too large and there were too many events fighting for the same players. But I think we're getting very close to a good mix because we truly are a global sport. And that's what people don't remember. know, like that's why for us, COVID was for us in our sport. These guys, I've got 14 different countries represented in my Dallas Open. Out of the 32 guys, there are 14 different countries represented. Well, you know, when you couldn't travel around, our sport really was a

Torrey Hawkins (48:17.243)
Right. Right. Right.

Peter Lebedevs (48:34.055)
We couldn't put you in a little room where nobody could be there. Yeah, the bubble was so hard. was... Yeah, exactly.

Torrey Hawkins (48:36.539)
bubble and play all your competition right like the NBA yeah no

Alvin Owusu (48:42.616)
And you did mention a little bit about the, well, kind of two questions here. The swing that you guys are on right now, does that take us from Dallas to Delray and continue to Indian Wells and down to Miami, or is it, am I reading that right?

Peter Lebedevs (48:56.146)
It actually includes Doha, Dubai, Acapulco, Rio. They're all going to be using Dunlop tennis balls. That entire, I don't know what you call it, not really spring, spring-winter swing in that part of the world is going to be using the Dunlop balls for that. mean, that's a big step because that's challenging for a ball manufacturer as well, getting that many tennis balls out there and doing all that sort of stuff and that thing. But the HB has done a good job of really working with the players to create that.

Alvin Owusu (49:01.346)
Okay.

Peter Lebedevs (49:26.099)
and at the end of the day I think it's going to be better for the players. If we can eliminate reasons that they feel like they get hurt and they do get hurt, if we can eliminate those by simply being consistent with something and still maintain the value for the tournaments.

the economical value that they get from these the ball providers it's a you know it's a good situation to be in so because look we want these players to be playing for a long time we want them healthy we need them out there playing

Torrey Hawkins (49:56.43)
It helps everybody doesn't it?

Peter Lebedevs (49:58.51)
It does. It does. If we, you know, we have a few barnburner matches, the Aussie open and those people get known and then they come out and they play for a few more years. I mean, that's why we've, I think probably we've been in an unbelievable generation with, you know, Roddick. Andy was the last great American player at one of us land. But when you had Roger and Ruffa and Novak and those guys playing out there and Andy Murray, you know, it's unbelievable. We've just been in such a the greatest guys, the greatest tennis players, arguably.

sort of the whole package in those four guys for a long period of time and we've had the greats you know as I mentioned Andy was a great who you know always unfortunate I think if Roger hadn't been around Andy would have won a few more slams and I think that you know McEnroe and those guys and Conners and all of them were great but they left the game so early these last four guys have hung around a lot longer truly because they love it Andy Murray loves tennis I mean he you know he had all the surgeries on his hips and he's still out there you don't do that unless you love

the game you know and that's that's the beauty of it and I think that's what you know you mentioned Ben Shelton it'll always be in the record books his first ever ATP event was the Atlanta Open but he he started playing competitively sort of relatively late and so he loves the game you know for him everything's fun and that's that's what creates great players along to a love of the game and then we as the tournament's can help them with a correct length season and helping them out with a you know the the right kind of tennis balls

Torrey Hawkins (50:59.352)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (51:09.761)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (51:09.922)
There we go.

Torrey Hawkins (51:15.072)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (51:28.263)
the right conditions to plane and make it as good as we can.

Torrey Hawkins (51:28.972)
All right. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (51:31.758)
You know, a bit of a nerdy tennis question here. You did mention the economic impact for tournaments. And I know that the Grand Slams kind of have their revenue breakdown is more so skewed towards revenue coming from rights holders. So we're in that 55 to 60 % range. then you kind of split up the other three categories from ticket sales and F &B and merch and then probably sponsorships. I'm assuming it's the third.

How do you guys tackle that beast when I know that your broadcast rights are handled a little bit differently than let's say your US Open or Wimbledon?

Peter Lebedevs (52:09.305)
Well, the US Open, it's somewhat handled the same, but by different people. The grand slams are able to work on their own. mean, they have their own broadcast rights. Like the US Open has done an amazing deal and they're actually taking production in-house, which is a huge...

Gamble is not the right word, they're really they're controlling it 100 % by doing that for us What the ATB does is we pull our rights to ATP media and so ATP media goes out and sells all of the tournaments and so you know when you've got one person going out there and saying to you know, Network or saying to Tennis channel or saying to you know, whoever it is guys You can buy all of tennis all of the torrents all of the matches. That's much much better and they

Torrey Hawkins (52:43.468)
.

Torrey Hawkins (52:57.226)
Right. Then piecemeal. Right. Right. Right.

Peter Lebedevs (52:59.545)
and the broadcasters. Exactly. mean, you know, for me to go out back in the day, I was having to sell, you know, my rights to the RSNs throughout the US before tennis channel really came on. I mean, that's that's a hard slog out there and you weren't getting much money for it. And they loved it. But, know, one tournament standalone wasn't really good. What they can do now is they tell the story of the whole tennis season leading up. And, you know, in Europe, tennis is so huge, it's like number two or three sport behind basketball and soccer out there.

Alvin Owusu (53:09.004)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (53:29.475)
So that's the way we do it now and that helps us. know once we all the tournaments once they got into the pooling they all saw their their rights.

go up. Some had some fantastic deals and maybe didn't go up as much, but by pulling our rights and having one person which is ATP Media sell it, it's been fantastic for us. And this is part of Andrea Giddens' plan is to really make sure that we get that broadcast and that aspect really as a group. Because right now there are seven different entities in tennis. There are the four slams, ATP, WTA and ITF. And we don't all sell together. ATP sells together. The majors

are so big that they sell on their own. And there's work to try and bring them all together. That's, you as I said.

Torrey Hawkins (54:11.38)
Bye.

Peter Lebedevs (54:17.387)
all of the leaders are trying to get together to do it where they could, you know, if we could somehow rather get all of that media aspect and brought together and so that we're selling our sport to the world as one unit. So you always know where to find your sport. That would be, you know, really beneficial when you see all the graphs that were shown. That's what we're trying to head towards. But that's a that's a huge part for all of us. And that's the goal is the broadcast and betting. As we all know, tennis is the second most bet sport in the world. There's a lot

Torrey Hawkins (54:37.541)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (54:47.431)
of money coming in from all of the sports, all of the tennis tournaments because of betting and as people can bet on who wins the first set, who wins his point.

Alvin Owusu (54:54.53)
How do we feel about that? How do we feel about that as tennis practitioners? I feel a little, anytime I hear about betting in tennis, I get a little uneasy because it's such a personal game. the people, individuals out here.

Peter Lebedevs (55:09.329)
Look, I don't look people people want a thrill of betting on something. I don't look I think the integrity of our tennis players I don't I don't think twice that a players throwing a match because of some betting or something going on like that So I don't I don't think the integrity of the sport is bad. But look Everybody's betting on anything and what color power rate or Gatorade is gonna be pulled over the winning coach at the you know at the Super Bowl They bet on that. I mean really and and so look if it's gonna bring bring revenue to

Torrey Hawkins (55:31.227)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (55:39.236)
to our sport and then you can make your challenger level better and your 25,000 tournament level tournaments better because you're driving revenue in so we can do more for the players. That's a positive. Yeah, exactly. I'm not, you know, obviously we're not allowed to because of integrity or any of those sorts of things and that, but I'd never say.

Torrey Hawkins (55:48.761)
Right. So be it. Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (56:01.849)
if there's no fixing. You know always just worry about the fixing of matches but you know it's definitely not happening that I know of you know at this level of tennis and that sort of stuff so I don't mind it.

Alvin Owusu (56:15.79)
Fair, fair enough, fair enough. we're getting pretty close to time, but there's a little segment we like to have here, considering your coaching background, we like to call it Coach's Corner. So we're gonna take off the turn of director hat here, we're gonna put on the old coach's hat. We had a very insightful conversation recently about some of the changes that we're starting to see, specifically on the men's tour, right?

Torrey Hawkins (56:17.093)
the

Peter Lebedevs (56:28.731)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (56:44.622)
as your Zverevs and your Medvedevs and your Casper Roods are starting to get into their later 20s, they're starting to, what we feel like is represent the, you know, kind of the, they're the youngest version of the old style of tennis, if you will. I'm gonna say old as in like in the last, the relics of the 2010s, if you will. And what we're seeing now with, you know, Carlos Alcaraz and Yannick Center and their ability to really turn our sport into a bit of a, a bit of, call it video game tennis, right?

over the last four years of, you know, Alcaraz and Sinner being, you know, very prominent in the sport, you're starting to see the wave of youngsters who were in juniors when these guys hit the scene. Now you're seeing them do their thing with the João Fonsecas and the Jakub Menšík and even, you know, to a certain extent, Learner Tien, right? What do you think is the underpinning of the way that these guys are choosing to attack this style of tennis?

Peter Lebedevs (57:43.162)
I mean, it's natural.

Athleticism is improving. They are better athletes than they were 10 years ago I'm not saying hand-eye coordination and that sort of stuff because that's not the same but you know these guys The average yet height now, I think is probably about six four or six five. That's a better athlete They get about 20 more pounds on them. So as a better athletes in any sport, they just hit it harder They move faster all of these things So I think that's what's happening. That's why the the game developed

envelopes, you know, on its own, somebody comes out doing something a little different and it's the athleticism that has changed so much. mean, when you look at it and look back in the day, Lender was the first guy that did all the super training and became super fit. Why? And then everybody had to get fit. And then, you know, I always look at this. This is a funny thing. Have you ever seen Novak or Roger or Ruffa's off court training videos anywhere of what they do? that's a no.

Torrey Hawkins (58:21.891)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (58:30.243)
All right.

Torrey Hawkins (58:38.627)
All right.

Alvin Owusu (58:39.694)
No, no.

Peter Lebedevs (58:41.807)
That's their secret sauce that makes them who they are. know, Roger did one thing one time, I think, you know, where he was with his his trainer, maybe a 45 minute video. But look, they're all becoming better athletes. And that's where it is. And, you know, Perricard, who's serving that second service. I when you're averaging, what is it? 142, I think, with his average second serve speed or something. That's just a guy that says, I'm this tall and I know that I'm going to make one out of every two balls that I hit like this, because biomechanically, I'm better.

Alvin Owusu (58:52.536)
Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (59:11.851)
And that's the other thing, tennis was late to the idea of videoing and doing all that kind of analysis. And that's why now more of the shots are looking more similar. In golf, look, they all look the same almost now because they're just going to the correct biomechanics and those sorts of things. So I think it's the athletes have just changed the game. And the next wave of athletes, I don't know what they can do, but I'm always amazed. I didn't know you could swing that hard. I didn't know a guy of Sinners height.

Torrey Hawkins (59:17.891)
it.

Torrey Hawkins (59:26.881)
All right.

Torrey Hawkins (59:38.286)
They'll be swinging it faster, I guarantee you that.

Peter Lebedevs (59:41.43)
That's exactly what it is. mean you look at Riley Opelka hit a on the run backhand down the line the other day in his match at the Aussie Open.

I mean Riley's 6'11", 7 and he is moving like a cat. Back in my day, I'm 60 so that's a long days ago, give me a 6'6 guy, 6'5 guy, he couldn't move, he was clumsy, know, great, lob him all day because he couldn't move backwards. Now they're they're cat like, know, mean Ben's another example of that. mean Ben moves and does things and the speed his arm is so lively so you know I think it's the athleticism that is, from me, that's changed and allows the guys to, you know, they can hit more

Torrey Hawkins (01:00:01.642)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Peter Lebedevs (01:00:18.963)
spin because they can swing that racket faster. So yeah, athleticism, that's the coach's aspect.

Torrey Hawkins (01:00:21.834)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:28.366)
I'll take it. Tori, anything you wanna add to that?

Torrey Hawkins (01:00:28.724)
Works for me. I don't. I love hearing his take on it. he's, Peter, you see a lot of the tennis at the top. see obviously a lot more juniors and I compared to the top and, know, 15, you know, almost 20 years ago, was at all the tournaments, you know what With Sco and Jamie and obviously Bobby and a little bit with Brian, so with Behaley. So, R now.

USDA president, Mr. Bailey himself. So it's, I've seen, and then over the years, obviously, you you kept, I kept your toe in it, but not necessarily, you know what I mean? I think I've, I think I've ran more tournaments than I have been to tournaments, you know, in the last 10 years. But I think it's something that I love hearing his perspective. I was catching with Peter at Atlanta Open this last, this last summer and was just talking about things and just, you know, kind of looking at it. So he's seen a lot of it and

Peter Lebedevs (01:00:57.378)
Absolutely.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:58.444)
All hail the chief.

Torrey Hawkins (01:01:25.212)
And I think his take is spot on. And I always like getting a different take. Whether I agree or not, I love his answer, which is what I love.

Peter Lebedevs (01:01:34.482)
That's right there. If we all agree, it's not good. And you see the special things with those players. The thing that they need to focus on all of the great players is they focus on the process and not the outcome.

And that's the biggest thing. They're not out there to try and win the match. They're out there to improve their serve. They're out there to improve their back end. Oh, and if I do that, I win matches. know that doing those little things, that's the other thing that great players, they're not talking about when I was in the locker room, I took a play to Wimbledon a couple of years ago and she qualified and won around there. So was great. And just talking to her, it's all about the process, not worrying about, okay, can I beat this? No, let's hit 75 % of first serves in. Let's hit more balls out wide.

focusing on that process is what is so important and what the great players really do. They're not looking to win a match in a sense. They improve on those little things. know, Alvin, you and I talking about Roger later on in his career came over his backhand more, you know, and what's Novak looking for? He's won 24 Grand Slams. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:37.404)
But came to net less and Novak's coming in more, ironically.

Peter Lebedevs (01:02:41.441)
Coming more and he hires Andy Murray because he's looking for something more even at this stage of his career He doesn't think he knows it all he's like how do I be a better athlete? How do I be and I think probably more than anything how do I be a smarter tennis player? Because that's the other thing about it all of those guys in the top 30 top 50 is you know Tory They can all hit a target, but who can hit it at four or 30 or on the fifth set That's the guy that has the confidence and as you know has a process. I'm gonna hit the target not or it's 40 30

They're like, I'm hitting a target because I want to and that's way easier said than done. Believe me when I say I make like as blood say much much much harder to to do than say but

Alvin Owusu (01:03:23.214)
Fantastic. Well, Peter, we'll let you get out of here. Thanks so much for joining us. Tori, always a pleasure. Peter, we will see you in Dallas. Hopefully everything goes smooth for you guys on the load-in and we'll call it a wrap there. See you guys soon.

Peter Lebedevs (01:03:38.684)
Thanks guys, I appreciate it.