Ep. 20: How NCAA Tennis is Shaping the Pros with Bobby Reynolds - Auburn University

Bobby Reynolds (00:00.302)
all the different results. mean, obviously I take different players and try to watch and implement, you know, see what they're doing and move, you know, and talk to our guys about it. But if you're telling, if you're asking me what happened in the last couple of days, the Australian Open, I have zero clue what's going on. I do and I don't. feel like if you 128 guys, I might know 30, 40.

Torrey Hawkins (00:01.837)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (00:15.029)
Right, but you know some of the players though.

Torrey Hawkins (00:23.361)
Right, right, right.

Bobby Reynolds (00:24.984)
The other ones, I feel like there's so many new names coming in, you know, and somebody will say the name, I'm like, where'd he come from? Yeah, so I don't know if that's good, I don't know if that's bad, I mean...

Alvin Owusu (00:25.004)
It seems like there's been a lot of...

Torrey Hawkins (00:28.469)
no. I didn't know half the seats.

Alvin Owusu (00:28.696)
so many new players.

Torrey Hawkins (00:37.238)
Yeah. Some of this is referencing, it was the post-match interview Alvin sent me of Stefanos Vispas after his first round loss, right? Played Mickelson, right? The nepsis coaching Mickelson right now, at least has been maybe for a while, I don't know. Stefanos went at length about how...

Alvin Owusu (00:56.473)
Yeah, still is, is, yep.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04.692)
I can surmise Alvin, feel free to chime in, about how much harder it is now, about how he's improved. He's the same player that beat Fed, that beat Novak, that was obviously three in the world. And if I can paraphrase Alvin, it was almost like my best just isn't good enough right now to be where I used to be. I don't know if

Alvin Owusu (01:07.118)
Please.

Torrey Hawkins (01:35.135)
Now clearly he's had a couple of tough rounds and obviously he, you know, he wet the bed against Chris Eubanks last year at Wimby. But in my opinion, what he said and what I'm watching, I'm like, good God, the men's tour has gotten tough. I mean, it's, you're talking some no names. I watched a guy for two sets. This kid from Thailand beat the brakes off of Daniel Medvedev, Bobby, for two hours.

The only thing that saved him was the kid ran out of gas. People don't just hit through Daniel Medvedev. I mean, the guy is a wall and he's 6'6". And now mind you, he may stand a little far back in the court. Bobby, he had drops. He had rips on both sides. He had a decent serve. I'm talking came out of his shoes, tagging the ball. I'm not talking about a guy that's, know, 27, 28. This kid's like 21. You saw Fonseca did with, did Rubilev.

Bobby Reynolds (02:07.406)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (02:32.157)
I mean, you're seeing a level of guy that's smacking the absolute felt off the ball. And these kids are young. I'm like, woo. I was telling Alvin before it started, I'm like, the men's tour, we might have that top, top level we think. But I said, dude, this is deep. I mean, you've got some players that are new and that they're not taking stuff off nobody. mean, just you being a seed might be a target on your back right now.

Alvin Owusu (03:01.218)
And it's not just like, think Tistispas' interview, his post-match interview was the one that kind of like got everyone's attention. But if you start to kind of read through it, it's the same thing. Zverev is saying the same thing and Casper Ruud who got bounced, you know, first, second round. Yeah. He said the exact same thing. It's like, you know, the game has changed. And I, and I was talking about this before we got rolling. Like these guys aren't old, right? These guys are all between the ages of like, you know, 25 and 29.

Torrey Hawkins (03:14.505)
Yeah, that's what we just went out the other day.

Torrey Hawkins (03:23.667)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (03:31.169)
saying that in the last five years that the game that they have been at the top of has changed. And you're starting to see Alcaraz won his first slam in 21, right? It's 25 now. So there are plenty of players who are 18, 19 years old right now who literally were in juniors watching this guy on TV and saying, that's how I'm gonna play. And...

Torrey Hawkins (03:34.068)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (03:55.953)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (03:57.123)
you know, there's been some statistical analysis about like what the actual difference is. Like, I think there's this company called like, tennis viz and they're talking about, steal score, but I'm not sure if you're familiar with steal score, but it's like how many, how often does a player win a point when they're on defense? So, you know, traditionally we've always been taught, right, go from defense to neutral, neutral to offense. And the two guys who are heads and tails above everyone else on winning points from defensive positions.

Sinner Alcaraz and it's not even close. So now you see all these young guys, 19 years old, 20 years old, like they're all hitting the piss out of the ball. They're doing it from outside the doubles alleys. They're doing it on forehand and backhand wings. They're strong, right? And I think the underpinning I'm guessing is probably like they all have fantastic footwork and strength and conditioning program is like, you know, it's starting earlier and earlier. It's kind of crazy how it happened that fast. We're talking.

Torrey Hawkins (04:35.504)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (04:39.88)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (04:54.546)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (04:55.341)
the game was different three years ago than it is today. And you know, that's kind of a long-winded, a long-winded cold intro to say, Bobby, what's up, man? How are you?

Torrey Hawkins (04:59.88)
Right.

Bobby Reynolds (05:06.35)
You know how time is, right? Time goes like this, you know, and I don't disagree, right? And I think as I try to think back on it, what could it be? I mean, as I kind of explained a little bit, you know, I think it's for me, it might be just a technology. Right now you're talking about kids who have grown up with Luxilon string with all this, you know, technology of actually the ball just actually pulling it and throwing it since the age of now what? Three years older.

Torrey Hawkins (05:12.384)
ridiculous.

Torrey Hawkins (05:28.155)
Yeah.

Bobby Reynolds (05:35.608)
four years old as opposed to somebody who maybe started at nine years old. And then you talk to people who started at 13 years old, right? I mean, I think we all know as tennis players and coaches and all the above, you string those rackets. mean, and you rip, the harder you swing, the lower you have that tension, the more it grabs in and the more it throws in, the more the ball goes in, you're right? And finding that balance of like, okay, where can I control it?

Torrey Hawkins (05:39.282)
Right.

Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (05:55.504)
100%.

Torrey Hawkins (06:01.041)
And to that point, Bob, if I can add, you can aim lower and hit it bigger. And as long as you can control it to your point, the strings reward you. But I'm going to say at some point, you're also now, used to tell Al, we just talked about this in the previous episode, ball speed and foot speed. We used to always talk about that with you. At some point, your ball speed is going to exceed your foot speed.

Bobby Reynolds (06:28.888)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (06:29.078)
I'm seeing some guys that their foot speed is not too bad and ripping the piss out of the ball. you're in a literal, you are going from the skill to the frying pan, buddy. mean, is the ball who cast out a five-setter the other day, And he had his hands full on first round, know, Rue did. And to get beat the next round, I'm telling you guys, this tie kid, Sondrit or whatever, was amazing off the ground. I knew Fonseca was going to be good. I've been hearing about that about him.

But I'm not talking about Impesci Perricard who has 142 mile an hour second serve. He's impressive on one side of the ball. These kids can return. These kids are ripping. Brandon and Ben had a knockdown drag out that only had one break. Six, six and five. And these guys I think are hitting a little bigger than that consistently. That's what's scaring me. I think, guys, and I'm gonna go out on a

weird limb here. I think it's going to change the landscape of the tennis because they're going to start knocking out a lot of seeds early and they're going to think about kind of restructuring the whole seeds and the whole format. You mark my words, this wave I think is going to do some things to kind of disrupt tennis and slow down the, maybe add more grit to the court. Something's got to happen because I'm telling you, it's just at this point in time, these guys are just, we've already lost how many seats are about?

six, seven seats, which is standard for Australia. But you're not used to seeing them get beat down. I mean, you're not used to seeing that guy choke. You've seen a guy got hurt, retired, Demetriov obviously retired. But you're starting to see guys get beat down. And that is scary to watch. You're up and comer. Fonseca was a qualifier. A qualifier. Knocking out a 10 in the world in straights.

And Rublev didn't play horrible. I mean, he was, he just got beat. Anyway, I digress, but I'm telling you, I'm excited. I'm worried. I don't know what I am. I mean, it's just kind of, it's a whole, it's a brave new world out there right now, you know, on the ATP tour.

Alvin Owusu (08:46.863)
And Bobby, I'll ask you, you we talked about this a little bit before, but like during your playing days, like was there ever a period where you felt like, like while you're in it going from, you know, 2005, 2006, 2007, where you felt a direct like, oh, things were different last year than they are this year, so if I want to be here next year, I need to do this.

Bobby Reynolds (09:11.534)
Yeah, I definitely did. And I don't know if I can pinpoint, this specific year. But I definitely think going from college, working your way through the Challengers up to the tour level and being at that for a while, I would say probably right around the 2010 area in my career, I realized you have to have some type of weapon.

Right in order to really be one of those consistent top 50 players You know where you're not dropping down it and and for me and and this is all honesty I felt like I was like a 125 to about 75 60 in the world player that was kind of my threshold right if I really wanted to be You know that next echelon players right below probably I would say the top 20 guys my next group would be you know 60 65 to like 20 25 If you wanted to be in that one consistently

you had to have something, right? And I think in my era, I pride myself obviously on the conditioning side on just absolutely what you're talking about, defense to offense to an extent, just.

being able to withstand points over and over and over again, pretty good serve, you know, from my size as a weapon. I tried to play more one-dimensional and kind of win the ad court side and kind of play more percentage tennis to not leave myself vulnerable in certain areas. But really to get to that next level, you had to have something just special, right? And yeah, and at that point, like, it's not like you can go out and work harder on your forehand and make it.

Torrey Hawkins (10:44.298)
special. Right, that's what I was gonna say.

Bobby Reynolds (10:51.328)
special you know you can't have what you had so you did see some of these guys you know nowadays that we would speak about like Kyrigos early on in his career and you saw him come out at 17 18 years old you were like whoa that's different right you know he's coming through the challenger level at 17 18 now I'm 25 26 27 and you're just like when he gets it all together

Alvin Owusu (11:05.304)
Right. Yeah.

Bobby Reynolds (11:15.886)
that's gonna be something different, you know? So you could definitely pinpoint different people even though they might have been a little bit younger, maybe a little bit more raw in their time and being on tour, but just the pace that came off the ball, the way it sounded, the way they were able to move, they were able to do everything that you did, but just a little bit better.

Torrey Hawkins (11:34.557)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (11:35.105)
Right, right. And if you were, mean, like, kind of like if you were to put yourself in the, let's say the Rublevs and the, you know, the, Ruuds of the world, right? These guys who have made a really good living, you know, in that six to 10 in the world space playing tennis in a very, excelled version of a traditional style of tennis, right? You know, the, the tennis of the 2010s, if you will, but now you've got these guys who are willing to go, you know,

open stance from the alleys on the backhand side and like, I'm not going to hit the ball high and heavy cross court. I'm just going to rip it into that corner down there. Like if they're playing this video game style of tennis, what's the, you know, what's the, what's the defense for that? Like how, how, how are the, how are the next generation of players going to, where the current generation of players going to deal with that?

Torrey Hawkins (12:13.864)
All

Bobby Reynolds (12:24.834)
Yeah, mean, and again, my question or popping it back to you guys is it just, you know, more of a mindset, right? Obviously, I think as you get older, you kind of get obviously set in your ways and how you play and how you've been successful. Whereas maybe some of these kids are coming out and what as a coach, you would be like, do not go for that shot because that is low percentage. But to them, one is not low percentage and two, they're able to make it. So they're looking at you saying.

Torrey Hawkins (12:50.213)
Right. Right. Right.

Bobby Reynolds (12:51.342)
It's not low percentage. I'm able to make it eight out of 10 times. You know, whereas you've always been coach and you know, hey, do this and kind of, you know, you get pulled out for me, you know, out to your right on your forehand, go a little bit higher, give yourself time so that you recover. Nowadays, don't kids don't do that anymore. They go over there and they smoke the ball forehand cross court, you know, like the story was saying, because they're able to hit it faster almost than some of the guys are able to run it these days. You know, whereas again, we played a little bit more defensive and like strategical.

Torrey Hawkins (13:16.678)
Yep.

Bobby Reynolds (13:21.296)
So that you could keep the point going where now I mean just again whether it's just You know kids are faster and stronger and bigger or is it the technology of different things that are allowing them to change? the way that kind of we've always Viewed tennis, you know that you know playing chess. We don't have to play chess anymore

Torrey Hawkins (13:42.052)
It's checkers now, bro. And it's turbo checkers. You got that right. It's like, like exactly like Domino's. That's a great comment you made there Alvin about video game tennis. That's what it looked like when I was watching. At one point, Daniil was laughing. Like he was literally, like this is a joke. Like nobody's this good. Like he was literally had that look to his face. Like he was incredulous.

Alvin Owusu (13:43.566)
Bang your fist on the checkers word while you're at it.

Torrey Hawkins (14:11.621)
You gotta be kidding me. Like, I'm just hoping this kicks.

Alvin Owusu (14:12.93)
And I've seen that look on all these guys. Like, Daniil had that look, and Casper had that look, and Rublev had that look. They're all just like, too good. I don't know.

Torrey Hawkins (14:19.396)
Yeah.

stunned. It's like 100 % like, Whoa, like where this guy come from. And I was almost proud of Daniil for laughing it off a little bit. Like this isn't me. This kid's just playing out his mind right now. And he weathered the storm, up, end up, ran out gas. was cramping. was doing it. But bottom line, the kid was absolutely take him to the tool shed. But I was proud of Daniil to rely on his veteranship and kind of, you know, understand, but

Alvin Owusu (14:27.224)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (14:51.461)
It won't be long. It won't be long. mean, I remember years ago, the NBA was bringing back the three pointer. And it was such a, you know, finally after years, they bring the three pointer just for you guys. I'm giving you guys a little bit of history. It was an old ABA throwback. That was like the whole deal. The ABA had the three point line. They had the multicolored ball, Dr. J with the Afro. You probably remember those days, right? Well,

When the NBA kind of took over the ABA, they were like, okay, yeah, not for that three point stuff. Well, then they realized for scoring purposes, obviously, what started, they're like, you know, let's bring my three point line. Guys were shooting so many threes that the NBA decided they had to move the NBA three back farther. It was just too easy. The college three, so to speak, right? At the top of the key, at the top of the circle and the free throw line. And I say it to say, it just moved it back enough.

that it made the difficulty, level of difficulty just a little bit more, right?

Steph Curry and others in our current era are now shooting those like free throws. The NBA is now talking about perhaps moving it back some more, right? At some point, but Steph can make it from half court pretty effortlessly. But at some point, it's a moot point. What I'm getting at is, and again, I don't want to get too far out, but I'm just thinking at some point, put more grit in the court.

Something has to happen because I'm telling you guys these kids are smacking the absolute piss out of the ball and I gotta tell you as fun as this to watch as a coach it's changing my know what's the word I'm looking for my construct my belief system you know there is no more high percentage. There is get low and racket speed period.

Torrey Hawkins (16:50.237)
and just don't give away time. I mean, it's way more about not giving time than it is giving court because at the end of the day, if I can hit it, why not? And so anyway, I don't wanna digress too much. I had a quick question for you, Bobby. Go ahead, Alvin.

Alvin Owusu (17:01.014)
No, go ahead, continue.

Torrey Hawkins (17:06.241)
I am seeing so many more former college players making their way into the top 50 and up. Every time I'm doing a little bit of research on this, because I've got to meet with Alvin a few days about our mid-tournament week, former standout A &M, former standout. I knew Brandon played at UVA, and obviously I knew Ben played at Florida. And those are guys because I know. I know Brian since I was playing. But I didn't realize all of these players that had

come through the college ranks and you probably know a bunch of them from from coaching against them for last several years. Has college, men's college in particular, shoot women's for that matter, Navarro and Payton Stearns obviously are two more, is college now coming back to being the true semi-pro, pro level, triple A if you will, of pro tennis ATP that it always should have been in my opinion, yes or no and

Why or why not?

Bobby Reynolds (18:05.238)
Yeah, I think we continue to evolve to that place where I think everyone, as you mentioned, wants it to be and it really should be. And this is not just a plug on any really college, right? But just the amount of resources, the amount of development, the amount of

financial time, everything that can be invested in these kids from 18 to 22 to 23 years old, that...

They don't have to rely on their own resources. They don't have to rely on a federation year in, year out that we know some are better than others at supporting, you know, and that uncertainty to help them bridge that gap for the uncertain times in their life. Right. I mean, we see a lot of them that go straight from again throughout the history, straight from the junior straight into, you know, the pros and get to top 50 and top 20 like this. But the amount of other ones that have

Torrey Hawkins (18:48.254)
Yep.

Bobby Reynolds (19:09.776)
been left behind that tried to follow that path. mean, we could, there's graves everywhere of those type of guys, right? You know? So now again, you're, you can't, you can't even imagine how, like I said, how many resources that we pour into these guys. And if I, if I broke it down financially per year, you would be blown away. If you just think about private coaching, think about private,

Torrey Hawkins (19:12.893)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (19:16.838)
Yeah. Yeah.

Bobby Reynolds (19:34.318)
Strength and conditioning, talk about private sports psychology, you talk about a private athletic trainer, and then you talk about any racket, string, travel, matches. mean, it's just, I mean, we're talking, you know, and I think...

I think from the American side, we've always kind of known that, right? And I think over the last 10, 15, 20 years, there's a lot more countries in particular that have also now continued to buy in. There's still some that are fighting it, but I think as a whole, you're seeing a lot more being like, all right, there's a lot of...

success in the pudding, Now it's known mean, too many college guys, men's, women's, all the above, doubles, singles guys. Okay, why not? know, like a lot less off our hands. And if we can send them to somebody that we know, you know, or a couple of different programs, we know that are going to be successful and help them develop. Okay, well we can wait from 18 and now we can start picking them back up at 22, 23, 24 years old at the end. And then now you've got 10 years with them.

Torrey Hawkins (20:16.282)
Right?

Torrey Hawkins (20:23.056)
Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (20:36.348)
and you're getting a better product at the end. 100%. I've got a quick segue question. I have always thought the USTA should have a 20 and under division. Alvin and I talked about this when I'm having my usual, you know, this would be a great idea. I feel like the 18s in my opinion is a great stage in development for the high school kid, but

Heck, let's face it, some of these kids are just now, just now filling out their frame, let alone strong enough and physically ready to do anything else. In college, we've all seen the 22 year old fifth year senior playing against the freshmen, you know, that he thought he was ready until he played college tennis and then he got his, know, I was, people don't know this and Alvin, I'll give this quick story for Bobby. Bobby?

It took Bobby almost two years to get 500 in the SEC. And I say that as I know him and I know his story and know how good he was. And Bobby was top 10 in the country. Pretty good player last time I checked. And that just showed you not only how deep the SEC was, but also how much physically better. Vandy was no slouch of a school. Obviously he had to get used to both the school load being on his own, the tennis.

And by the way, Vandy wasn't as strong as far as when he got there and he was picking up the line one, which was nobody's picnic. And so now he's coming at this like, woo. And he told me a few times, like, it just took me a time to get my head around all of it and just where I got my legs under me, the next year, third year, three, of course, NCAA finals. Now I say that to say, that's a transition in itself, right? And I think that's something, one of the test was I've always,

I've admired about you Bob was just you just kept working at it and the sec my question is 20 and under a legitimate next phase to me the 22 and 23 these guys are full-grown and they've got if they're not doing an internship at whatever Deloitte and whatever they're going to they should be playing pro or going pro in their in their in their career right is the 20 and under a pivotal area where you can see some of the kids in college

Torrey Hawkins (22:59.385)
play unto themselves, right? Not against the other 22 year old, you know, fourth and fifth year seniors. Is it a pivotal area of development? And would you as a college coach endorse an All-American for 20 and under? Why or why not?

Bobby Reynolds (23:19.214)
I would. mean, I think, mean, again, and I don't know the exact statistics. What do they say? I mean, you start playing your, you play your best tennis at what, like 27, 28 years old, right? So I think as a coach and even when we're recruiting right now, we're looking at 15, 14, you know, and obviously sometimes committing players at 16 years old, it's mind boggling to think that, you know,

Their best tennis is still 12 years away and they've been playing tennis for 12 years. It's so hard to, again, put, this guy who was great in the 12s and the 14s, well now he's in the 16s, you gotta recruit him. Well, I he might be already hit that peak and started to make his way down. And he's trying to find that.

Torrey Hawkins (23:47.234)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (24:00.386)
Maybe I'll repeat, 100%.

Bobby Reynolds (24:05.4)
think a couple things right I think it's work ethic at that point I think it's you know again have they peaked or they still have do they love the game right and from a college standpoint there's as you mentioned there's so many things get thrown at you right you've got the academics you've got the tennis you got the social life you got just everything boom you're on your own

that yeah, I mean think if you, the more you can extend and I have to give USC a lot of credit, they're trying really, really hard to partner with college athletics, right? And do however we can from a, obviously to help out the Americans, but also just college tennis in general because there is so much success and you're starting to see so much success at the ATP and WTA level. So yes, if there was some type of infrastructure or hey, you know what?

Torrey Hawkins (24:34.241)
Yeah, good.

Bobby Reynolds (24:52.494)
We're going to take all these guys from 20 and under and you're going to play maybe a six week segment. And that's going to help you get wild cards or just something to keep helping not only incentivize, right? mean, as a coach, we're trying to balance. You get a lot of the top juniors coming out and they say, all I want to do is play pro, pro, pro, pro, pro, right?

That's great if you're getting matches, right? And then you look at the PTTs or W, know, the UTRPTTs and I'm like, you know, you get to go there, you get to go make money and you get six matches, you know? So it's kind of always that balance. So, you know, to your question as far as if USDA could help out and put something together, I do. I think it would be a great product to give Americans, hey, here's another avenue, you know, whether it be in the fall, whether it be in the summer around, you know, kind of that spring season to get.

Torrey Hawkins (25:35.658)
Yep.

Bobby Reynolds (25:44.224)
You know, I mean you look at the rankings you probably could get 24 to 64 players like this of unbelievable level of just Americans if you had that between you know 20 and under type of age group

Torrey Hawkins (25:54.367)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (25:59.699)
And that's why I was bringing it up because I feel like the Americans in particular don't get the matches from the 18s going into college. ITAs can be a little watered down. think we all understand that. They're not what they used to be. And they're letting anybody and everybody play in them, which is a whole nother talk show. The 18 year old senior in high school who's a top national player. He's flirting with some pro tournament.

Right Jojo right he took a semester or year off I don't know how long it took but took you off to try to try to play which again You got it you got to do that you may want to do it for a while you got to do it to almost to to Soothe your own ego a little bit to say hey I want to just try whether I make it or not. I want to find out And then Phillips Phillips a good family and Jojo's great kid so no no shade on that but clearly He didn't make the draw for Australia right and you don't realize how hard that is and especially so many players

Now in college tennis, making that move and who made some headway afterwards, the pro tennis is just getting tougher. My thing is the 18 year old senior in high school is now in a really weird mountain top, a peak where he's only playing top juniors. And then he's playing up against pros. His UTR inflates because he's only playing up.

or is only playing guys that are also 12s and 13s like he is, maybe even an occasional 14. There's never, and there's not enough matches against other guys like him. He inserts himself into college, he gets his teeth kicked in a little bit, which is to be expected. But if he were to play with a group of other kids like him, other freshmen, even a sophomore, and they would have their own mini circuit, I think the college level would be.

the better for it because they're getting better quality players coming in the mix. You really almost would have two lineups in a sense, right? You have your upperclassmen and your lower class and they get to play a little more. I would say open it up and I think ITA should do it, not USTA. USTA can do a, and they've done that, but the futures event, that's this next gen event that was so popular for the last few years. Something like that for college to me will be great. It will really kind of show how hard your players coming in are and really.

Torrey Hawkins (28:20.593)
Hey, this is you were here. This is you are now. Really get those guys a platform. That was just kind of one of my questions. I just always feel like there's no substitute for matches. And I always feel like kids going into college don't play enough and they're not match tough. They think they are because they have rankings, but they're not match tough in terms of knowing how to play on a bad day, knowing how to get through just when they're not 100 % and can I out.

Can I out compete, not necessarily out hit or my strokes are better or, know, and then, and mind you, without my coach and my, and everything else that was literally custom made for me, you know what I mean, but before. So that was one of my, I got one more, but I'll let Alvin throw in one more on you.

Alvin Owusu (29:09.208)
Well, I wanted to kind of ask a question about the, mentioned that the USTA has been a big help lately. What type of help are they providing now and how has their involvement kind of changed from your time playing in college, then kind of moving forward into you starting to run your own team, I guess, probably a 10 years in between those two, and then another 10 years since you've taken over the program at Auburn.

how has their help evolved over the last, let's say, 25 years?

Bobby Reynolds (29:41.166)
Yeah, I mean, would say, I mean, first and foremost, I just think their partnership with college athletics in general. Obviously, there's a big push from the NCAA standpoint of having the championships down in Orlando and making an event kind of like in Omaha, you know, from the baseball side and just kind of bringing more eyes and ears and just more excitement into tennis in general, right?

Torrey Hawkins (29:59.364)
Right.

Bobby Reynolds (30:08.909)
I think that's one of the big things. think, you know, I don't think there's as much of a barrier as far as going to college anymore, right? I mean, I do. I mean, I think back in the day you had some...

Again, I speak about federations being like, if you go to college, you're gonna regress and get worse and everything that happens at college and all the above. Whereas I think now they are truly seeing like, hey, there are some great programs, there are some great coaches, there are a lot of success stories where you can go and you can still keep getting better. I think there's more of a...

Torrey Hawkins (30:40.504)
Yeah.

Bobby Reynolds (30:47.118)
again, holding hands as far as some of the Federation coaches speaking to college coaches about the players, right? And hey, here's what they do well. Here's where they're lacking. Here's what they might need. How can we really find a good home for some of these American players? And there's not, again, there's no, I think the competition is gone, right? I don't think it's my player versus your player.

Torrey Hawkins (31:07.434)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (31:13.71)
competition between. OK, gotcha.

Bobby Reynolds (31:17.072)
the Federation, he's my player, you I don't want to give him up anymore, you know, he's my player, you know. And I think, you know, just with USC wild cards and just again, trying to bridge that gap and really see that college is a great avenue for, you know, 98 % of kids who play tennis, right?

Alvin Owusu (31:37.814)
And does the USTA then view that as anyone who's playing tennis within the United States, is they're all treated the same or are they still, is there still a delineation between those who were born here in the States versus those who are coming from overseas or from South America as it would be?

Bobby Reynolds (31:55.436)
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the biggest I would say in this is this year, right? And maybe this is a negative on the USTA side is that, they took away the wildcard for the the NCAAs, right? And I think as college coaches and we voice that concern going from, you know, a spring to a fall and kind of that carrot and that kind of prestige of what has made playing college tennis and playing the individual singles and doubles so special.

Torrey Hawkins (32:22.868)
Right. Right.

Bobby Reynolds (32:25.36)
special. No different than Kalamazoo, right? You knew what you were playing for. You knew what everything, the culmination was. If you're an American, you're trying to get that wild card and that is massive. I do see their side, right? You have a winner that wins it in November. How are they going to be playing come, you know, the next September, right? They might not even play number one on their team. They might not be top 50 in the country. So I do see that side of it too.

And that's kind of something I think we got to get back to. how do we find this? And I think they've done at least preliminary a good job of, right, you know what, come the summer, we're going to take the top Americans from college tennis and we're going to have a playoff that has the opportunity to win this wild card. So it's not like they've taken it back and said, okay, it's gone out of college tennis. So maybe finding that nice middle ground between that. So.

I don't know if I answered all the questions. can't remember everything.

Alvin Owusu (33:19.79)
No, that definitely did. TH, you know, TH had a question that he wanted to get off. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (33:21.811)
Yeah, nothing special.

Torrey Hawkins (33:26.815)
This whole, and I always confuse the acronym, NIL, excuse me, I think this is what it is. Tell me how much it has changed. I know you're supporting, you got the Auburn University on your chest, so I know you can't divulge everything you feel on a personal level. Tell me what's good about it. Tell me some of the possible pitfalls.

and bidding wars and you name it that we're getting into if it's if it's not if it goes unchecked.

Bobby Reynolds (34:00.886)
I'll use one of your words that you've always used since I was, don't know what, mean, you started working with me, what, 10, 11 years old? Salty, very salty. I'm salty. I just don't, you know, if I look back at, hey, why did I get into college coaching? I got into college coaching because of everything that, you know, TH you've done for me, that D. Drew has done for me, Dobbs, I mean, everybody who's ever had...

Torrey Hawkins (34:06.28)
Yep, Salty. Sure. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (34:09.39)
You

Bobby Reynolds (34:29.77)
Hand in my success. That's why I got into college coaching right is to be able to kind of give back some of anything that I have to give and in once we've moved to Paying players any amount of money That's gone out the window You know and you hear about it from the football and the basketball standpoint And I think I truly believe they have a leg to stand on right there. They're generating a lot of

for the university. There's a lot of other things that are going on that I do think that they deserve some of it. But if we just take the entire picture and you're talking about college football players now.

What did I hear that Carson Beck is going to Miami for four plus million dollars plus whatever he's gonna get in revenue sharing next year. So four million dollars is basically a signing bonus to go to Miami. Then he gets revenue sharing and I've heard upwards of 10 million dollars that he's gonna make more money than what Brock Burdee did for going to a Super Bowl. I mean, we've lost our mind as far as college athletics and...

Torrey Hawkins (35:20.521)
time.

Torrey Hawkins (35:26.908)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (35:31.511)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (35:36.24)
Right.

Bobby Reynolds (35:42.74)
Even from a football standpoint, some of those coaches are making more per year than the NFL coach. How can a professional coach, a professional coach making less money than a college coach? You know, so there has to be some checks and balances. And I think this is really just, it's a crazy time. again, I'm not.

Torrey Hawkins (35:47.043)
NFL coaches with better contracts and longevity.

Torrey Hawkins (35:54.725)
Right?

Bobby Reynolds (36:04.522)
I'm going on my ninth year and I talked to coaches who have been around in college tennis for you know 20 30 40 years right and their minds are blowing and and I'm even further off you know and I've only been in such a short time I really just think the pendulum has swung so far right now that you know NCA is just you know what you put up a lawsuit okay well back down you know and that's why that pendulum has swung so we needed to come back in some whether it's

Torrey Hawkins (36:10.459)
Bye.

Torrey Hawkins (36:25.509)
Bye.

Torrey Hawkins (36:29.189)
Coming back, right.

Bobby Reynolds (36:32.354)
You know, through Congress, whether it's through the litigation side, whether it's just through change, you know, and you asked about obviously college tennis, not college football or basketball, you know, there's numbers out there that are six digits for one year, for one spring. If you go and do the math of men's tennis,

Torrey Hawkins (36:48.56)
Yeah. Yeah, I've heard. Yeah. We're tennis.

Alvin Owusu (36:51.938)
for tennis.

Bobby Reynolds (36:54.506)
If you go and do the math of a guy who's probably top 200, 150 in the world right now, they're not net profiting six figures. They're just not. And it is just, it's not even that it's unfair from a playing standpoint and from a competition standpoint. It's unfair of what we are presenting to 18 to 22 year old kids that is not reality.

Torrey Hawkins (37:02.341)
Thank you. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (37:20.438)
It's a false sense of reality, 100%. Fool's gold.

Bobby Reynolds (37:22.936)
Whether you go and play professional tennis or you go into the working world, who's going to give you a six figure deal to come work for four months with no success, with no results, with really nothing?

Torrey Hawkins (37:30.809)
signing bonds to work.

Alvin Owusu (37:32.662)
Right. So like.

Alvin Owusu (37:37.326)
So with all that kind of being, I guess, fairly new in the last two, three years for you, how has your role as a coach changed or evolved in the last 10 years?

Bobby Reynolds (37:51.086)
Yeah, I I think in the last two years, right, it's not, I don't want to say I don't, you know, what keeps me up at night isn't as much forehands and backhands and serves and how are we going to make the culture. It's like, okay, how are we going to go out and fundraise? How are we going to go out and truly compete with, and again, it's not specific schools that, oh my gosh, you know, obviously, you know, the Texas, you know, the brand and obviously having their own network and that's just going to generate more money. But you have some of these one-off schools now that just really have a donor that has invested

Torrey Hawkins (38:03.621)
No.

Bobby Reynolds (38:21.1)
interested in men's tennis and it has a blank checkbook that just says, coach, whatever you need, you just let me know and you make it happen, right? So if you're out of university that doesn't have that blank checkbook...

Torrey Hawkins (38:22.901)
Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (38:27.821)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (38:34.243)
Or said donor.

Bobby Reynolds (38:36.758)
that donor, right? Or you don't have some of the other intangible things that I think over the last 40 years has been attractive to college men's tennis, right? You've already, you're already behind the bar pretty far, you know? And you're looking up and you're like, all right, well, those 10, 12 schools have this, those 10, 12 schools have this. Okay, now we're fighting between, you know, 20 and 40 with all of the rest of us who are kind of, you know, competing under the same pre-ten type of thing.

Torrey Hawkins (39:03.939)
Right, right. It's gonna be a crazy time to your point. I hope for your sake and other coaches like you that the pendulum swings back because you'd like to think it was about coaching at the end of the day. I'd like to think that it's coaching at the highest level. I'd like to think that it's coaching all the way through and this little aberration I'm gonna call it, it's a little tough right now. It's tough for me to see. Thank you for the kind words. You were one of the absolute best players I coached and one of my most favorite. My story.

There was a player and I won't call the other player out. He was also one of my favorites at that time. Probably the best player I had worked with. We're at the sporting club, Alvin, at Windy Hill. And some would say that I was a little tough on the conditioning court back in the day. And we were doing three court suicides. Three court suicides. It was the end. They were getting ready for Southern. You know, back in those days, we didn't have the luxury of the

you know, long breaks and the wet bulb, dry, or whatever, wet bulb, dry, globe test hadn't come in yet. It was straight up old school. And I had these three players doing conditioning at the end of practice. Three of our best, by the way, all these guys are top in the country. Bobby Reynolds starts off in true tortoise and hare fashion, just slow and steady, but would not give up. We are on probably the fourth

three-court suicide, right? The player and this other player was probably the best athlete I had worked with up to that point in time. Speed out of the wazoo, graceful when he did it. He hit a wall, Alvin. He hit a wall. And just in his mind, he could not make himself finish this one particular exercise. Bobby Reynolds says to me, fourth three-court suicide. This is not...

After drill, this is not fresh, you know, he just has an extra, you know, he's doing blood doping in the corner. This is, he's dying. And he says, yells this.

Torrey Hawkins (41:15.903)
I'm gonna get him. I'm just gonna outwork him. I'm just gonna outwork him, TH." And I was so, I was laughing because he saw the moment and that was his time to catch this player who at up to this point he was still trying to catch. He may not have known it then, Alvin, but that mantra was in the making. He went on to be obviously a top college player, went on to be a top pro and obviously,

a top college coach and I say it to say I saw that on some random day in the summer at, boy Bobby, 17. You had to be 16, 17 years old. And I remember thinking to myself, his medal was forged in some of those sessions. But each time that happens, you get more and more, your belief grows. To me, people say, success, great success. Well, I agree with that to a point.

Before you have success, you have to believe. You have to have a mini win that allows you to have some success in a bigger win. Those mini wins, and you remember all the times at old school Chattichou Plantation Bobby and all the stuff we were doing. There were days I was making up exercises to just to give you guys to do from plyos to stuff with bungees, stuff that tennis world was catching up to now, we were doing back in the late 90s, early 2000s.

It was almost Bobby would come to the gym and say, TH, what you got for me today? Like he was almost looking forward to the torture. He knew it was gonna be tough, but he was looking forward to what was he gonna get pushed to today? And those are things that I look back on as a coach. I looked forward to those days. I looked forward to, this is gonna be good here. Bobby, I got something for you today. And he's a.

Alvin Owusu (43:09.262)
And that's a good segue to my next question, like kind of the, you know, between the collective experience that you guys have, like not only, you know, Bobby, your time on tour, the time you spent playing at a high level in college and then tour your, you know, the experience that you have with junior players, the role of the coach, how does the role of the coach change as we move from, let's say, good junior to top junior, top junior to college player, college player to pro?

Torrey Hawkins (43:25.413)
you

Alvin Owusu (43:38.954)
and I'll let Bobby kick it off there.

Bobby Reynolds (43:42.942)
man, know, when I look back again, as I spoke about all of all the people that have helped me along the way, you know, I really think maybe it changes, but it doesn't really change. it's knowing the people or the person that you're working with and what makes them tick and how am I going to motivate them to be better that day? And you know, I know you can't see this on this podcast right now, but like,

there was no chance between age 13 and 18 or 19, and probably still to this day, that I would look at TH and tell him no for anything. You know? So that was never an option, right? He told you you're gonna go run and you're gonna do it this many times, you're like.

Yep, right. I'm gonna go do this. Right. And that's like, again, that's what is so great about being a coach and being a mentor. Right. And he knew right, he's not going to do anything and put us in any harmful way and detriment, but he's often also not going to go soft on us because at the end of the day, he's doing he's doing wrong by us if he doesn't push, right? If you don't push them, if you don't help them along. And I think that's the biggest thing again, as I try to go, you know, get guys from

Alvin Owusu (44:31.0)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (44:51.629)
I Sure.

Bobby Reynolds (45:00.862)
juniors and then obviously work with them for three or four years and hopefully help them out as they go on. It's it's finding what makes each guy tick right and when they fall short how do you you know pick them up how do you continue to motivate them how do you make sure they understand the big picture right and and I think that's what I felt as a coach and there's no two people that are the same.

Torrey Hawkins (45:24.826)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (45:26.126)
Also how do you manage that across a team of eight to 10 guys?

Bobby Reynolds (45:33.12)
I mean, I'll tell you, that's as far extreme as, I've had people, you know, when they fall short or they, you know, fall short of expectations. I've had guys go out and paint equestrian rails so that they are seen by their peers at the equestria, you know, on the equestrian side, the women's, of something that they fell short. I've had guys,

Torrey Hawkins (45:54.65)
Thank

Bobby Reynolds (46:01.132)
you know, clean the indoor tennis course. I've had guys do conditioning early in the morning. I've had sit down with guys. I've had, you know, it's just there's, I feel like you have to find, I mean, we're managing nine, 10 different guys and what I could make one guy run for an hour and a half straight and it wouldn't serve its purpose. And I could make him sit in my office and just tell them how upset and how he's let his team down and how he's let his parents down. And that has a far greater

Torrey Hawkins (46:03.61)
Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (46:13.338)
that player.

Bobby Reynolds (46:31.217)
effect on him than making him run for an hour and a half.

Torrey Hawkins (46:34.872)
.

Bobby Reynolds (46:37.314)
You know, and that's the bad side of things, but the same thing on the motivational side of like, okay, how am I going to make you a better tennis player? Right. And it's just, I feel like it is drastically different depending on who you have and you ask me specifically with each player, then I could say, okay, I do this for player A and player B and player C. But I can only imagine from the junior side and you know, of how many guys, again, you you're working with so many more players that come across your court day in, day out, and trying to figure out.

Torrey Hawkins (46:48.652)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (47:01.944)
them.

Bobby Reynolds (47:06.55)
how to get the most out of them at the end of the day. Gives you the most fulfillment at the end, Is everything invested in them, you know, and the hard times, the great times, the bad times, and then seeing where they end up in the end.

Torrey Hawkins (47:08.669)
Yeah, I Yeah

Torrey Hawkins (47:19.586)
tell you that it's easier than you think because while you look at a lot of numbers there was only a few kids and those numbers that tried as hard wanted as much and really kind of dialed in to the frequency you were you were putting out.

You two were two great examples of that. I remember talking to Alvin. I forget what tournament it was, Alvin. It had to be, I want to say it was Pelham for some reason. We were at a tournament in Pelham at some rando tournament. And you and me talked for the better part of an hour and a half and watching some matches. have been Travis playing and you were asked, and you asked me, you were probably 15, 16 at the time. And you had asked me six of probably the best questions. And I'm like, Alvin.

You think a lot out there, don't you? Maybe you think a little too much, but you think up. Exactly, exactly. You're gonna think up exactly. And I remember looking at you differently after that tournament. Shoemake would always tell me how my, Alvin, I'm telling you, Alvin. And I'm like, okay, all right. But I hadn't really had a lot of experience with you. And after that point in time, I said, you know what? I like that Alvin Owusu. We now had, I now saw you as a kid who wasn't just bashing the ball. You were thinking your way through it.

Alvin Owusu (48:10.466)
I was just getting you ready. I was getting you ready for this podcast actually just 25 years ahead of time.

Torrey Hawkins (48:36.341)
You had an issue or two like everybody and I'm like, huh. And I then want to help a kid like that more. Why do I get into coaching? I want to help. I want to help a kid get better. I love the coaches that helped me get better. I look back at some of those times that were hugely important to me. I wanted to be that for that person. A little bit of a, I had a little bit of salt at my, Bobby, Bobby brought my horn back. I had a little bit of salt at my college coach because I felt like I tried so hard.

to get to that level, only to get to college level and the coaching I thought was atrocious. I'll be honest. I felt like I didn't learn much. I went out, I was here in quick little backstory. I went and played summer league basketball. I played basketball and tennis, but more basketball than tennis. And there was a few coaches at summer league at old school sports life, Bobby, you remember old school, you both remember way over there in Cobb. And a couple of coaches gave me a couple of pointers, watched a couple of games, a couple of players.

I was like, I'd learned more in this two weeks at this summer pro league deal than I've learned in two years at Morehouse. And I was pissed because I'm like, it didn't take a lot. I did two at first summer I came back, I was playing ball and the coaches are like, looks like somebody's improved over the summer. And I was like, yeah, no thanks to you. And in my mind, I was so pissed because I'm like, guys, I'm.

Alvin Owusu (49:58.007)
Yeah

Torrey Hawkins (50:01.587)
I'm not wanting, you know, back in the day, I'm playing D2 basketball. I know I'm not going pro, but I do want to be better. And so I left Morehouse, Synopsys, even Georgia State, and I said to myself, I'm going to be the coach that I wished I had. I'm going to take an interest in those kids. Who knows what these kids are going to do? And if I can't go pro in sports, maybe I could go pro as a coach. Maybe one of my kids I coach could go pro. And I'll kind of experience it that way. And that will kind of...

you that'd be enough for me. And that's kind of where I was. But I say it to say, you and you were both those kind of players. You gave back what I thought I was putting in. I remember one day, Bobby, was some random day, 12, 13. We remember the front courts at UTA, old school UTA. You were playing some match with somebody. And I remember I was eating, I had gone to McDonald's, I was eating lunch and.

You had gotten fired up from some big point. I rolled my window down because I heard the screaming. Of course, it was Bobby playing on court one, hooping and hollering on some big point. I was eating my lunch, watching. I moved my car over where I could watch while I'm eating lunch. And I was like, I always love it when Reynolds is here. It's always, you can always, he's always firing. You know he's going to compete. And I remember getting out of my car like,

like hyped to do drills, like, oh, it's gonna be a good day. Be race here, it's always gonna be Monday today. And it was one of those things where I always look forward to those days when you were in drills because of the attitude, the energy you brought. So it was hard not to, if anything, I'm like, how dare me not be ready, not be up for drills, you know what I mean? And so it kind of, it starts having this kind of two way thing, right? Where you're coming out to give it,

I'm coming out to give it. We're both going to kind of feed off each other's energy. There were 20 other kids out there. Sometimes I can't even tell you names. You know what I mean? There were moments. I remember when both of you were on my court and I remember moments with my point is so it's not the masses person. There are 60 kids out there in drill. That's great. But really it was those 10. It was those eight. It was those maybe those 12.

Torrey Hawkins (52:28.08)
that you really bonded with and had that relationship with and then to your point and then you learn kind of what motivates you. And at eight to 10, a little different because every kid at that age is kind of wants to be competitive, wants to be the champ on the wave, right? And at 12 to 14, okay, what kids really wanting to actually change and learn? 14 through 16, are they going through that timeframe where they still want to work or their school pulling them away or parents to it? Then you got to kind of navigate and mitigate some things like that. 16 to 18 is obviously at that point it's really more just

Did you do the work eight years ago or four years ago to make it happen now? But I would tell you that Dabur made a point one time, Bobby, you'll appreciate this. It takes a good player to make a good coach great. it takes a good coach for a player takes a good coach to make a good player great. And I thought it was, I forget the exact wording of it, but bottom line, one couldn't be one without the other.

And I think that symbiotic relationship is really important. And I would tell you that I've been blessed to have you two on the other side of my net for whatever those years were. And now that we're on the same side of that, so to speak, it's been it's been even better that I really that I really cherish. I've asked you as many questions, Bobby, as you you've asked me, you know what I mean? Post post your time at the drills back at UTA. And it's been it's been a neat exchange. You know what I mean? I remember the days with Brian Bailey and obviously with you and

It's just been neat to see those times and see that the progress you guys continue to make. Obviously both you guys as fathers and as men and in your career. So it's been pretty cool to see those relationships formed from when a kid who just dared to try enough to let a coach take notice of them. And at that point, that built, that was a foul. That's all we needed. You know what I mean?

You tried, you cared enough, right, to try and to improve. I showed up, I chose to come here today to look for a kid like you to give that kind of energy back and buddy, I'll be darned if I'm not gonna reciprocate, you know what I mean? And maybe more than you want today, but I'm gonna bring it. And if you're gonna bring it again tomorrow, I'll be here tomorrow, I'll be waiting on you. And I just feel like when I get kids like that, man, you know, so, and I've just been, I've had the good fortune of having.

Bobby Reynolds (54:39.896)
Okay.

Torrey Hawkins (54:51.03)
kids like you guys come across me and as I say, you guys are, we're men now, you know what I mean? But it's such a neat thing to see and there's a lot of power in that word, coach. There's a lot of, of, short of father and a few other titles. I remember my main man, Bobby, I'm having an older moment, my main man, Stanford coach, Goldie.

Bobby Reynolds (55:15.63)
See

Torrey Hawkins (55:17.002)
I remember Paul told me that one time was like, and he made it and he said it in such a Goldstein savvy Stanford way. was like, probably the second best thing you could ever call someone as coach, after dad or, and I was like, you know what? I'd never thought of it that way, but in a lot of ways, a lot of us are, and Alvin, you've coached a good bit as well. You really appreciate that reference power you have and that position you are in a lot of kids' lives. So anyway, without.

the diet's not going too long. thank both of you, you know what I mean, for all that and what's going on. I do have one last question for you, Bobby.

Bobby Reynolds (55:54.446)
was going to say one follow up to you. You were talking about me hooping and hollering. I was going to say it must have been like a Monday, Wednesday, or Friday because I definitely had the Tuesday, Thursday no talk days implemented by you coaches. So it definitely could not have been that day.

Torrey Hawkins (56:01.792)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (56:02.83)
You

Torrey Hawkins (56:10.122)
my god. So some little kids. I'm gonna take you back. My first, my first recollection Alvin of watching Bobby Reynolds. I'm walking into old school sports life. I'm on a far court. I'm working there taking care of the courts. I got a membership there so I can hit tennis balls and I'm going back and forth to Morehouse. they, so I'm gonna have to pay. They let me get a job there and that was my little part time job.

There were these two, I think one was nine, one was 10. I'm talking to the moms up there and I'm like, who are these two guys here? And I thought it was funny because their names were kind of the same. And I'm seeing Robbie and Bobby and these two little boys down there and they're playing. Somehow the state doubles tournament rained out. They got them into a courts over here. And these two kids are, I mean, tiny, pumping their fists. I mean, just running around the court. Who knew that Robbie Gennepri and Bobby Reynolds were at this young of an age?

And I happened to buy, I'm like, kids aren't too bad for some little guys. And mean, volleying, mean, neps was down low at the net. mean, crouching down, I mean, yelling switch and they're, of course they're lobbing, of course they're hitting, you know, lobs and drop shots. And then, you know, yours, you, you. And not one ball went past 20 miles an hour, you know what I mean? But they thought they had the arm bands on, I mean.

Bobby Reynolds (57:22.67)
you

Torrey Hawkins (57:35.206)
Had to head backwards. mean, these two are just ballin', pretend. And I laughed at it. Eight years later, I'm getting back, I'm actually getting into coaching after all of my condition days that I'm like, know, Drew pissed me off and told me he didn't think I was gonna do this and I was coaching. I was like, I'm gonna show you. Sure enough, then Drew leaves me with Bobby playing Robbie in the finals of Southern's. And it now came back around full circle. And so, and then even past that,

one of the pictures of my background, Bobby and Skull play doubles together and knocked and took a set off the number ones at the world that day, York against my main man. Who was it? Was it, was it who, the Swedish guy, my main man, great returns.

Bobby Reynolds (58:14.51)
you

Bobby Reynolds (58:20.398)
It wasn't Mirny, who do play? And there you go, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (58:22.151)
It was Mierney and Bjorkman. You guys played Mierney and Bjorkman. And Bobby, I remember that match that was yesterday. Alvin, they beat him in a tie break and were just ballin'. I mean, just playin' some ball. The second and third said we won't talk about, but let's just say they were, let's just say that Mierney got a little pissed off. And I remember Bjorkman hit a couple of returns and I was like, oh my God.

Alvin Owusu (58:47.746)
You know, in that space between Robbie and Bobby at age nine and 10, you know, all the way to the the Myrnean Bjorkman days, there was a lot of, know, because I'm only a year younger than Bobby. like as a player kind of in the shadows of these two guys who are at the top of the section and then eventually top of the nation, like there were a lot of like random Robbie and Bobby instances that would just kind of pop up. And one of them was actually happened at my high school. And this was like a very, very funny

Torrey Hawkins (58:54.117)
Yeah.

man.

Torrey Hawkins (59:01.702)
Right?

Torrey Hawkins (59:06.074)
Right?

Alvin Owusu (59:17.166)
funny, weird, would never happen in high school tennis, but Bobby, I don't know if you remember this, like you, there was a high school invitation at McEacher in high school, and you were at Harrison, and I was at McEacher, and then Robbie was at Wheeler, and Wheeler was supposed to play Harrison, I think on a Friday night or something like that, and so one of the chances that you got, I'm 16 at the time, so you guys were probably 17, so you got two of the best players in the country.

playing against each other at a high school tennis match, right? An invitational tournament, no less. But the kicker was, Robbie wasn't in town. He was at a tournament. So they were supposed to play on ours. This is at my high school. We have two sets of courts, right? We have the six lighted courts and then we have the four courts that are like the, just the courts over there with no lights on them. So I, and Bobby, I've always wanted to know how this happened or how this was agreed upon.

Torrey Hawkins (59:48.517)
Alvin Owusu (01:00:14.078)
Somehow Wheeler versus Harrison got put on the, courts with no lights at like six o'clock and like the fall. It's like, who, who, who, who let this happen? And it's like, Robbie's not here. So obviously they're not going to this match in. And then it got pushed back to the next day. And it's like, okay, Saturday morning, there are people everywhere to come watch a high school tennis match in West Cobb. So.

I don't even know if this even like, if you remember this. Right over your head. Okay. This is what it, yeah, it was a...

Bobby Reynolds (01:00:46.19)
I do remember but but did I play you in something at McEacher? I remember playing

Torrey Hawkins (01:00:48.356)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:54.03)
Uhhh...

Alvin Owusu (01:00:58.645)
Maybe. Maybe.

Bobby Reynolds (01:00:59.438)
I cannot remember, but...

I don't remember that.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:03.702)
Yeah, it could have happened. Whatever it was, it was probably pretty quick. But, yeah, I do remember that match getting pushed to the next day and then magically both of you guys showed up and like, we got a tennis match here. But.

Torrey Hawkins (01:01:15.343)
Yeah.

Bobby Reynolds (01:01:15.682)
Well, did I end up playing Robbie in that? Because I think we both only played maybe one year of high school tennis.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:20.928)
Yeah, I think it was that, I think it was that, I think you guys ended up playing that match. I think you guys ended up playing that match last Saturday morning.

Bobby Reynolds (01:01:25.582)
Well then it was probably another win for him because you know how many wins I have over him? This many. So you know what? That's why I don't remember any of them because I am a goose egg versus however many versus him.

Torrey Hawkins (01:01:35.756)
That's funny. That's... Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:36.641)
Yeah, join the long line of us. You know, there was one other question I did have for you and we'll let you get out of here. since, you know, this came up in another episode that we had talking about how college tennis had become so viable as a gateway to the pro tour, right? And I can't remember if it Tori or another one of our guests mentioned that part of the special sauce is that the quality of coaching has gotten better. And so you've been involved in college tennis for, you know,

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:00.683)
and

Alvin Owusu (01:02:04.526)
as a player and as coach for like almost 20 years now, is that true? And if so, what else can you attribute to like the shift? I would say that major shift from a coaching standpoint.

Bobby Reynolds (01:02:24.174)
if I can say that the college coaching has technically gotten better. What I think I can definitely say is the college coaching as a coach now is more year-round. I think you had some great coaches even back in our era that were coaching at some great schools, but I just think the...

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:42.209)
Hmm.

Bobby Reynolds (01:02:53.56)
when you talk about what the role is of a college coach, it's no longer just, you know, from January to May, and then we'll see you later type of thing. I really think you have some, it's more of, as I spoke about earlier, it...

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:02.47)
Right, right.

Bobby Reynolds (01:03:09.976)
we're not just selling a lie. What we ultimately would love to happen is that if I have nine or 10 guys, that they are using Auburn as their home base, right? Obviously they have their home where they are, but like...

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:21.406)
bright.

Bobby Reynolds (01:03:25.166)
You're here for the fall, you're here for the spring, and then during the summer, right, when we don't have any rules and when we can help you out and everything's still covered, you're coming back and we're having that constant communication as far as, okay, you're going out to play these two futures or you're going out to play these tournaments, but you're coming back to us for the week, week and a half, two weeks of training in between the next one, right? And you're coming back and you're seeing our sports psychologists, you're seeing our nutritionists, you're seeing our athletic trainer, you're seeing our sports

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:33.32)
Yeah.

Bobby Reynolds (01:03:55.132)
strength and conditioning coach, right? You're coming back to see your team. Whereas I think if I rewind back 20 years ago, right? You know, when we were done with the fall, again, I love my coach, Coach Flack. mean, one of the greatest guys, but it was like, I didn't hear from him and he didn't hear from me. We had no cell phones. We had no communication from the time.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:10.399)
Right.

Bobby Reynolds (01:04:13.858)
practice ended until I showed up for the first day of class. And then we would go from the first day of class to the end of the season, and it would be like, all right, I'll see you next year. And you would go back to your home coaches. And so I just think that infrastructure of what we're able to provide, along with, again, you have a lot of coaches that have a passion to coach, as we talked about earlier. It's a mentor. You're not just building the relationship so you can spend.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:17.319)
Bruh.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:22.602)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:23.022)
Hmm.

Bobby Reynolds (01:04:43.34)
the better part of, let's say, really our season, if you really break it down, is about six months. Like, we're not six months on, six months off, right? We are truly on 12 months, and how can we help you? How can we make you better? And I think that is what's making college tennis players that come into the system that much better when they end up leaving.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:54.29)
No.

Bobby Reynolds (01:05:07.054)
But like I said, if I think about coaches that have recruited me that are still in the college game to this day, they're great coaches now and they were great coaches then, it just really has evolved. And the funny thing is, and I'll give this kind of as an example, I had Lester Cook with me last year who had come on and.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:07.074)
Gotcha.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:15.333)
Right. No.

Bobby Reynolds (01:05:25.358)
wanted to really get into college coaching, had done some real estate, had dabbled in a bunch of stuff, been successful and said, you know what, I really think I still have a empty spot in who I am to get into college coaching because of the coaches that have helped me. within the first three or four weeks, six weeks, we're sitting in my office and he goes, my gosh, like.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:40.574)
Sure.

Bobby Reynolds (01:05:50.496)
I didn't realize this is how much work you guys actually do on a day-to-day basis from 7.30 in the morning until 6 o'clock at night. And he goes, and that's not even taking into consideration the recruiting that you then do at the nighttime. You know, he goes, I.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:53.67)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:05.82)
Right.

Bobby Reynolds (01:06:10.51)
As a student athlete, I just don't think you truly understand the spectrum of what college coaching is going through, right? From the administrative standpoint, you know, recruiting standpoint, through budget, to then what are we going to do in practice? And then and just everything. And I really think when you take a step from being a student athlete, and we have one right now who was, you know, a great guy and he's my second assistant now, same thing. He comes in and he's like, oh my gosh.

like it's non-stop.

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:40.955)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:43.064)
So what does a typical day look like then? Now I'm curious, like what does 730 to 6 PM look like in your world?

Bobby Reynolds (01:06:49.678)
I mean really when we're in the spring or we're in the heat of it, you're doing individuals from 8 o'clock till 10 o'clock every single day. You have, and this is at least our schedule, then you have about 10 o'clock to about 1 o'clock as far as administrative recruiting, anything you need to do from that standpoint. And then about 1 o'clock, we start practice at 1.30, we go 1.30 to 3.30.

four to five is conditioning or lifting, right? And then you're kind of tying up loose ends at the end, you know, getting out of there by five, five, 30, six, you know, depending on what's really keeping you. And then, yeah, you're, you're scheduling, you know, recruiting calls, right? You're trying to keep up with the guys that you're recruiting and it's only getting longer right now that we can recruit two years in advance, you know, where it's not just, you know, that short window as we, you know, we know it from, you know, senior summer until

Torrey Hawkins (01:07:30.021)
Right. Right.

Bobby Reynolds (01:07:44.8)
November for the signing period. We're really talking to kids from their summer after their sophomore year. So again, I see some great points to that and I see some negative points to that. But the great part is, is obviously you're building that player coach relationship that earlier and ultimately what we're trying to do.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:52.134)
wow, okay.

Torrey Hawkins (01:08:03.649)
earlier. Right.

Bobby Reynolds (01:08:08.044)
But the negative side of it is what the player feels that they have to commit so early and, my gosh, I have this pressure and, you know, it has to be right now. You know, I just started talking to coaches in June and July of my sophomore, junior year, and I want to commit by October. And you're like, whoa, how could you possibly know everything that you could need to know and or where a program is going to be in another year and a half to two years and or where your progress is going to be in another two years?

Alvin Owusu (01:08:31.681)
Yeah.

Bobby Reynolds (01:08:37.968)
You know, so like I think we've lost in at least in that time period when I speak about recruiting is the

getting to know, like, you know, of like, hey, I'm not gonna commit and still my senior year, but now I've gotten to know, you know, 10 schools with 10 different coaches and 10 different programs. And I'm a year later and I'm a year more mature, you know, in the whole process. But yeah, it really is nonstop. You know, I think if I say we have a little bit of downtime, we got a little bit of downtime, you know, right after Orange Bowl.

Torrey Hawkins (01:08:46.617)
Yeah.

Bobby Reynolds (01:09:09.186)
you know, into the holiday season. But I said, I mean, our guys were back a week before even school started, you know, because they want to come back. They want to train. They want get back into the system. You know, they're not like, OK, how long can I stay at home and just kind of relax on the couch? and you have a lot more.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:15.437)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:22.861)
Yeah.

Bobby Reynolds (01:09:26.08)
Again, full circle. You have a lot more guys that want to play professional tennis and truly want to play that and they value what they're getting so that they are willing to invest and come early and take advantage of what they have presented to them.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:31.545)
Bye.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:40.696)
Yep, well said. That's well said. I've got a question and a favor and I'm gonna ask the favor first and the question will be for next time if the answer is yes. The favor is would you come on again? We'd love to have you again. The question, and this is a loaded one, our good friend and my former player is now the head of the USTA.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:42.136)
Nice. Nice.

Bobby Reynolds (01:09:57.954)
Yes.

Torrey Hawkins (01:10:11.551)
You are hypothetically speaking, head of the NCAA. We're going to say you're at the request of the athletic directors at all. You are going to speak for the men's college coaching symposium. And you, along with Brian and others in the responsible positions, are going to craft out the ideal.

schedule wild cards tournaments you name it for the integration of the NCAA and the USTA the question is for next time what does it look like

Bobby Reynolds (01:10:58.444)
Man, you didn't prepare me. Okay, that gives me some time to prepare then.

Torrey Hawkins (01:10:59.733)
So that's for next time. It's a big one. There's just some time to prepare. And most importantly, I'm looking for why. What don't we have now? It's easy to say, well, there's one of that. You're have give, there's a grace and give and take in there. I want you to think about it. It's a weird one, but I think there's nobody more prescient than you to think about it and to speak to it. There's no better relationship you have obviously with your former...

Alvin Owusu (01:11:03.19)
Hehehehehe

Torrey Hawkins (01:11:28.116)
Big brother, you know what I mean, on the court with the men, Brian, and who knows? It might just be a competition we have with them one day. So it's something that I bring to your attention. I know we've got some, there's some earthquakes and some tremors going on with the USTA right now and all that. I think it would be wise for a coach like you to have at least in mind what it should include, let alone what it should look like. And perhaps just in my own, you know, how do we look?

down this road in five years, what does it look like to make it better, to make it be even more complete, as opposed to just pot shotting what we need is and this and that's wrong. So that's my favorite, my question. Now we have some time to think on it. And I would be very, very curious to know your answers and your reasons why. And we look forward to having you on the next time.

Bobby Reynolds (01:12:20.61)
Yeah, no, I would love to. I would love to do that. And I think, you know, you obviously been with Brian a long time. I think there's he's a great ambassador and person to be heading up the USDA, right? He's he's.

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:29.96)
Yeah. 100 % Couldn't be a better person for it, in my opinion. I just wish his term were longer to actually get some things done, as with all of them. I love Katrina when she was there as well, good friend of Katrina Adams. I just feel like the way it's set up is a little bit tough because you're only there for like a whirlwind. It's really 12 months. They say it's 18, but it's really only 12 months before you know it, you're gone. You know what I mean? It's like, it's just difficult to get any kind of thing done. So I'm curious to see what

Bobby Reynolds (01:12:40.931)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:59.123)
He chooses to choose to have his priorities and when he chooses to try to initiate in that short period of time, I'm glad that he's giving back and wants to be involved. Brian and I used to have some knockdown drag outs about the USTA, this and that and the third. And so to me to see him get involved, I was really happy to see because it's one thing to have something to say about it, nothing to have an attitude about it, nothing to get to roll up your sleeves and get involved and make some change for me inside. So whatever it is,

I'm sure, and he's a sharp guy, I'm sure he's already thought that through. But I bring that up to you to say, envision it as if the Haley himself is across the table from you, who also was a former top college standout, NCAA finalist and such, top junior, also from Atlanta. So that would be a fun conversation to see. Also 50 in the world, you guys have a lot of similarities. So what, and then you're in it.

Bobby Reynolds (01:13:53.814)
As long as it's not an argument, because I've never won an argument against him. He is that big brother that has beaten me down too much.

Torrey Hawkins (01:13:57.458)
And you know Brian, you know Brian. Shut up Reynolds. So what I said to say, if it were to ever come up, I think it would be good for you to be prepared, but also to truly think about where the game's going. You're in it right now. know what I mean? So Brian didn't do a lot of this on that college side of things. He went on into whatever he's doing, wealth management, hedge funds, and all that other sort of thing with his double major.

Alvin Owusu (01:13:58.831)
You

Torrey Hawkins (01:14:26.358)
I'm just mentioning it. think it'd be a great question. I'd love to hear the answer regardless whoever hears the solution besides our listeners on this podcast because I think you're at a point now Bobby we're going in year 10 and I know you had many years as an assistant as well. You've seen several different schools. You played the band. You're at Auburn. You're at Oklahoma. You know and probably a few schools that I've forgotten about that you were at. You have seen it.

You've seen SEC, you've seen, you know, you've seen Big 12, you've seen, I guess I'll use technically part of SEC now, but all that changed back then. You know, know what was. It was Big 12. think, heck, when I was, when I was coming, it was Big 8, you know what I mean? So I just showed you how long it was back in the day. But you've seen this, you've seen the other coaches, you know it. At some point, not just the whole money issue and Title IX, there's a lot of things going on. What?

Alvin Owusu (01:14:59.949)
Hm.

Bobby Reynolds (01:15:00.667)
Now!

Torrey Hawkins (01:15:21.156)
would it look like and what comprehensive things would we do and why? And that's all, yeah. We'll talk to it next time. And I, for one, I know I speak for Alvin, we really appreciate having you on and we can't wait to get you on again. And good luck to the, good luck War Eagle, right? And good luck to the Auburn Tigers this year and look forward to seeing how your team does this year and we'll be checking things out.

Be watching some Australia. We'll be asking you a lot what you thought about some of the matches and how things kind of shook out at the end of draw when we talk again.

Alvin Owusu (01:16:00.662)
And I think we'll put a pin in it there. Bobby, thanks for joining us. TH, always a pleasure. And we will be back at this again next time.

Bobby Reynolds (01:16:00.782)
I appreciate you guys having me.

Torrey Hawkins (01:16:09.251)
Always a pleasure.