Ep. 41: French Open Review

Alvin Owusu (00:01.953)
And welcome back to the best of three podcast I'm still Alvin that's still Tory th how you doing? Uh I'm uh, you know, I'm a little I'm a little tired not gonna lie. I got up early this morning I didn't tell you about this because I wanted to wait until we were recording. I Had a 6 a.m. Court time at RCS not on his lifetime First person I see when I get on to the indoor courts Calm down Browder

Torrey Hawkins (00:08.199)
What up, what up? Alvin, how you doing?

Torrey Hawkins (00:19.617)
Ha ha ha ha.

Torrey Hawkins (00:24.108)
Okay?

Alvin Owusu (00:31.617)
Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, I saw Browder. Michael Browder himself, yeah, yeah. I'm like, he's doing well, he's doing well. He lives up in that area. He does a little part-time teaching there every once in a while. Just kind of in the mornings, but it was good to catch, yeah. Yeah, it was good to see him. It was good to see him, yeah. Played a little indoor tennis this morning. It was fun.

Torrey Hawkins (00:31.659)
No way. So you're Duncan. Michael Browder himself. no way. No way. How cool is that? How's Michael doing?

Yeah.

Got it, sure. Chowder, as Dabur used to call it. That is great, that is great. I gotta reach out to Michael, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:01.504)
Hit the ball.

Torrey Hawkins (01:02.597)
Here's my question, Alvin, and I'm gonna get controversial right off the rip. What is going on with Lifetime changing half their courts to pickleball courts? I mean, if there was a mecca of tennis in the Atlanta area, as far as where all the top academies had gone through, it was RCS slash Lifetime. And I feel like, don't get me wrong, I enjoy gaming pickleball for kicks and giggles.

I think it's a great game and I honestly love the game in itself. But I'm not so sure I like all this. I do. It's a racket sport. I like Padel too, by the way. I'm saying, Padel and we had, at my old club, we had platform tennis. You heard it right here. If it has a racket in the ball, with some exceptions, racket ball, I don't necessarily like, but squash, I played time or two, whatever. Padel, I love.

Alvin Owusu (01:34.955)
That's weird.

Hey, I'm here. I'm here for Padel. I'm I old school. I've got plans on Padel.

Torrey Hawkins (01:59.285)
I mean, I just like the volleys of it. I like the quick action of it. And I'm not going to hate on pickleball. used to, but I'm not going to hit on pickleball. I want to say this because I'm getting the weeds. What is up with the facility changing so many of the courts to pickleball courts? I'm like, there's no place has that kind of it's not that much demand.

Alvin Owusu (02:15.44)
It's a demand thing. It's a demand thing. Their clientele, mean, the people vote with their wallets. They want to play pickleball. I mean, they have what, eight indoor courts? That's crazy. That in itself is unique, right? Actually, take that back. They changed half of them to pick. That's right, the back four, the back of the indoor is a pickle.

Torrey Hawkins (02:36.769)
They just changed. I'm trying to say half the indoors changed and half, if not two thirds of the outdoor have changed. That's why I'm bringing it up.

Alvin Owusu (02:44.021)
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm not a pickle guy. I am very interested in Padel. The old ITA is now ITP. They've got covered courts in pickle and Padel. I'm here for it. But anyways.

Torrey Hawkins (02:53.963)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (03:00.78)
I only say this and I want to get back to the French open and wrap up and the tour and so on. I just say it to say, I am still a tennis purist. 100%. I love tennis. I will always love tennis. I feel like, I feel like pickleball is kudzu. It is growing on, I know that sounds like a weird statement. It's growing on things that are already growing. It doesn't do anything on its own. just, it, it, it,

Alvin Owusu (03:09.461)
Yes. Yes.

Alvin Owusu (03:20.693)
You

Torrey Hawkins (03:27.788)
It's a growth. It metastasizes on things already there. And unfortunately, like kudzu, it doesn't give anything back. It smothers what's there now. If you told me that a lot of the pickleball players were not going to come into tennis, I'd say, know, this is a great symbiotic relationship, but pickleball is now taking not just the people that don't play tennis or can't play tennis or can't overhand serve anymore. It's not just taking the type.

Alvin Owusu (03:34.817)
deep cut.

Torrey Hawkins (03:54.668)
that were on the sidelines for a while and couldn't learn tennis, right? Which let's face it, tennis is a tough game, which is why I love it. You're talking about, and again, I love its appeal. I love how quick and easy it is to pick up. I'm married, I got two kids, me and my daughter, my son, my wife, we've been out playing. There's not a more social game out there that we all can play. it's a great social game. You heard it right here. I quit hating on it a while back, because I realized, look, this is a lot of fun.

Alvin Owusu (03:59.682)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (04:14.975)
Yeah, it's a great social game.

Torrey Hawkins (04:24.62)
Is it for the true tennis purists? No. Will it replace tennis ever? Not even close. Tennis is a way of life. is a calling, if you heard right here. But it's also that hard to master. It is hard to learn. It is hard to get good at, which is why you love it. And when you get halfway good at it, something happens to you. You feel like, you know what? I'm invested in this game and I want to get better. Pickleball.

Alvin Owusu (04:43.125)
Yes. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (04:54.568)
I've seen people get better within 20 minutes and there's nothing wrong with that. But it's to say that's the beauty of it. The fact, I'd have you playing pickleball in seven minutes. I swear to God. And I'm telling you, Alvin, it's quick. I heard a good stat from Austin Smith. If you or Tim is watching, shout out to you. Tim Smith's dad made a great point. Tim's already won himself a US Open in pickleball. His son Austin played one at Georgia, top player, top 20 in the world back in the day.

Alvin Owusu (04:55.807)
Yeah, yeah. That's the beauty of it though. That's the beauty of pickleball. And I'm not pickleball enthusiast. I'm just saying like it gets people...

Torrey Hawkins (05:23.849)
He said, Torrey, it's the easiest game to pick up. It's one of the hardest games to master. He says, as you know, I'm a tennis purist myself. He's about getting into this pickleball thing. I've devoted some time to it. He pushed me to keep trying it a little bit and just, you know, don't go into it with any preconceived notions. I said, you know what, Tim, you're right. I'm going to go into it and I'm going to appreciate it for what it is. Not comparing, just appreciate it on its own island. And that's what I tried to do. And I think that's where I'm at.

Alvin Owusu (05:46.046)
I will-

I'll second that in that like obviously I don't play pickleball. I've played probably twice in my life, right? And one thing that I heard that really changed the way I think about pickleball actually came from Roger Agassi. Agassi said, I can go a month without hitting a tennis ball and I can hit once a week. I'm not getting any better regardless. Like I'm not getting any better, I'm not getting any worse.

Torrey Hawkins (06:16.115)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (06:17.537)
He's like, but pickleball presents itself, presents me with a new challenge. Like it's for me to get really good at pickleball, I have to continue to play and I can play. Like I could do it four or five, six times a week and my body doesn't feel as beat down as tennis court. so if Andre can come at it with an open mind, then I can think about it that way. And then also it's a game that, you know, I go to Hilton Head once a year with my family, we're going next week and.

Torrey Hawkins (06:26.484)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (06:30.141)
Right. Body doesn't do it to you. Where tennis will beat you down at our age, especially my age, you're younger than me. Right.

Alvin Owusu (06:45.697)
They've turned a lot of those tennis courts into pickleball courts, but it's really hard for me as a quote unquote advanced player to find people to play with when I'm on vacation, but like everyone plays pickleball together. So that's the easy end. But I say that to say, I'm going paddle. I haven't done it yet. I haven't done it yet, but I've seen videos and I've seen people do it. I'm like, that's what I want. I want that handsiness with the ability to like get 360 playoff stuff.

Torrey Hawkins (06:48.756)
Yeah!

Torrey Hawkins (06:54.731)
100 % Every place pickle.

Torrey Hawkins (07:02.888)
Yeah, Padel, Padel is my- Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (07:11.493)
man.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Playing off the walls and whatnot. And platform taught me a little bit of that. Long story. Let's get forward in the other stuff. I say it to say for all of you tennis purists out there, and I'd love to hear the comments from some of the viewers slash listeners to see what their thoughts are on it. I will always be a tennis purist period. I think that, and Mackerel said it best at a, at one of the, I think it was an event at it in the wells and someone said,

Alvin Owusu (07:15.487)
Yeah, I'm

Torrey Hawkins (07:45.301)
McEnroe, you're turning the pickleball now. And he says, well, pickleball's paying. So his point was, I'm still John McEnroe, what is he, eight grand slams? I'm not ever going to change my love of tennis, but sure, I'm an ambassador of pickleball. You know what I mean? And so it was one of those kinds of things where, look guys, you know who the sponsor is. You know what it is. You know what I mean?

Alvin Owusu (07:48.703)
Right, yeah, Speaking of.

Alvin Owusu (08:07.53)
Right, yeah. Just a segue from pickleball, but next week while I'm out on vacation, I did a very quick podcast with my new friend Farron, who is on Instagram as Hot Mess Tennis. Hot Mess Tennis, she is a firecracker. I really, really enjoy talking to her. We'll probably post that one next week while I'm on Hilton Head. But she came to tennis.

Torrey Hawkins (08:23.773)
Hot mess, I love the name already. That's what I'm talking about.

Alvin Owusu (08:36.748)
from pickleball as an adult. Yeah, it's, right, yeah. It's a very, her perspective is very interesting and I love talking to adult beginners. Like, cause I, when I see the sport through their eyes, I get joy from it. Like when I got in play, I'm chasing my best days and fighting off demons. But like, I see someone, there was a brother hitting serves. We were out there for an hour and half this morning. There was a brother hitting serves. Like the entire time I was there, just next to me.

Torrey Hawkins (08:38.794)
there you go her and probably 10 other people how about that that's amazing yeah

Torrey Hawkins (08:56.935)
Right, right.

Alvin Owusu (09:05.258)
And then like drop hit forehands. I'm like, man, just to pick this sport up in a space where you can be more cerebral about it. But about the fans, I'm gonna take a minute to talk to the people that are listening to us because it's kind of like breaking the fourth wall. We've got a lot of new fans here, a lot of new people checking in with us. So happy, yeah, welcome. So happy to have all of you guys here. Appreciate you guys rocking with us. I do wanna quickly call out maybe three of them.

Torrey Hawkins (09:05.533)
Yeah, how about that?

Torrey Hawkins (09:10.621)
Go.

Torrey Hawkins (09:14.291)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (09:22.151)
Yes, sir.

Torrey Hawkins (09:26.546)
That's awesome. Welcome, by the way. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (09:35.72)
Alright.

Alvin Owusu (09:35.953)
I don't know how to pronounce this, but it's MCCCCX. Highly, highly engaged in the comment section. Really, really thoughtful. Love the stuff that he or she is commenting on, so that's been a lot of fun. Justin Modessa, 544, and then Pican Tan Man, 9322. My question.

Torrey Hawkins (09:42.941)
Love it. Love it.

Alvin Owusu (10:02.785)
Cause I don't know, you we started this podcast cause you know, Tori and I go way back. We like talking to each other and we like talking about tennis. It's a nice place to be. This is our version of a, you know, hanging out at the bar talking about tennis and our friends get to hang out with us.

Torrey Hawkins (10:09.97)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (10:16.403)
Right. And a heated high level bar discussion. You know what mean?

Alvin Owusu (10:18.977)
It's the country club we never had a chance to build. Yeah, but I'm curious as to why people are here. So I'm gonna do this. If you want, shoot me a voice note. The email address for this podcast is alvin at bestof3productions.com. Shoot me a voice note or an email if you want. Let us know why you're here.

Torrey Hawkins (10:23.624)
100%.

Alvin Owusu (10:46.111)
Like let us know your tennis background, like where you from, like whatever you want to share with us. Because you know, this is a community. I think that's the really cool thing about tennis. Like we can build this community around this thing that we all love. And we got to have a really fun weekend with the French Open. So that was a.

Torrey Hawkins (10:56.178)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (10:59.497)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (11:04.392)
Love to hear them and love to have some of the ones that are as invested in this as we are to even be on the podcast with this in future, at future dates. Know that, and you said it before several times, Alvin, we're not media. We are tennis enthusiasts. We are long, we talk about tennis, right, we don't cover tennis and we're not here to cover, as I saw one of the comments, I was so happy to hear it.

Alvin Owusu (11:22.837)
We talk about tennis, we don't cover tennis.

Torrey Hawkins (11:32.53)
We're not here to cover play by play. We're not play by play. We're not radio. We're not paid by, we do this on our free time and out of our own volition. But more importantly, we are, because of our love and our experience, we are critics. We are gatekeepers. We are fans, high level fans, I might add. And we would like to think with our somewhat deep knowledge of the game, we have a perspective that is.

you know, more, I would like to think deeper than most and hopefully more insightful than most. And therefore that's what we bring when we're talking to each and every one of you. And Alvin, let me say this for all the listeners and to you as well personally, there are days when I get off of the podcast and I say, ah, Alvin had a good point. I don't want to tell him he had a good point, but he had a good point. And I come back and I'm like, all right, Alvin, you have me on this.

Alvin Owusu (12:23.295)
Yeah baby.

Torrey Hawkins (12:30.118)
And I think it's the same with you as well. Some of this stuff continues to grow on you a little bit, right? And that's part of the banter slash the conversation, you know, to move someone's perspective, right? Is to present a point deep enough and without it having been challenged, it may not have stood the test of time or why I or truly why it was my opinion in the first place. If it stands, then I

Alvin Owusu (12:34.421)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (12:59.42)
feel better about taking said stand at times when it doesn't stand, I go back and say, Hmm, let me think about that because I haven't had it challenged. haven't had it juxtaposed and therefore I'm not so sure about it. Maybe it was just a off the wall comment. Right. And I think it's important and therefore, and I hope that some of the viewers listeners can help us to continue that same thing. And maybe they have a few comments or

Alvin Owusu (13:16.021)
Well put. Well put.

Torrey Hawkins (13:27.949)
long held beliefs that they need. Guys, I got a question about this. I've always had a question about this. And I'd like to get it out there in the open and discussed with the community, right? And maybe our, please, 100%.

Alvin Owusu (13:37.109)
Well, I will encourage those people to please drop that in the comments. Let us know. mean, we read them. Obviously, I'm in there. You guys have seen me. I'm easy to find, that's for sure. And I will stand, I will stand 10 toes on anything that we say on this podcast. And because, you know, we're all friends here.

Torrey Hawkins (13:49.786)
Yeah.

I love it.

And to your point, this is the place to share that kind of stuff. So go ahead.

Alvin Owusu (14:00.936)
Yeah, so kind of French, we wanted a little bit of French open and kind of wrap up. Like we've talked about the finals on both men's and women's Fantastic, we got a damn near perfect semifinals on both sides. were tennis fans blessed. But as I look back at the tournament and kind of the first six months of the year as a whole, what do you think now that you did not think?

Torrey Hawkins (14:14.746)
Really did. Stammers are great. Files are great. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (14:30.709)
when we got started pre Australian open. Like I remember we did a podcast in December about some people that we were looking at and expecting more from. Kind of specifically on the American side. I think Francis made us feel probably okay with his clay court performance about where he is right now. I think someone like an Emma Navarro, is this a sophomore slump?

Torrey Hawkins (14:45.126)
Yep. Yep. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (14:59.143)
or is this a return to, is she finding her actual level? Like maybe she's not a top eight, 10 player in the world, maybe she is a 15 through 20 player in the world, I don't know. I don't know, it's probably a little early to tell. But I don't always wanna look at things through the lens of necessarily the top, top players. But the Alcares center of things.

Torrey Hawkins (15:04.9)
Yeah. Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (15:12.986)
Sure, I agree with that too.

Torrey Hawkins (15:21.766)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (15:25.855)
I find it to be so fascinating because we have now, we now have lift off, right? With this, with this rivalry. And I remember, you know, when Fed and Adol were, you know, chasing Pete and then also chasing each other for this like slams race, goat race. And this is pre Novak coming on. I remember every grand slam feeling like it had real stakes to it. Historical implications. Yes. And it.

Torrey Hawkins (15:29.51)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (15:42.852)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (15:50.903)
historical implications. Sure. For sure.

Alvin Owusu (15:54.771)
It felt like it happened kind of quickly, right around like 14, 15 slams, something like that, maybe 16. So kind of coming back, we're at now five and three, four for Carlos and Janik, which is, you know, obviously there's a long road ahead, but that can double up on you real fast in like three or four years. So do you feel like it's the same? Are we on board for the same ride? I think that's the real question. Are we on board for the same ride?

Torrey Hawkins (16:01.593)
Yep, yep, yep.

Torrey Hawkins (16:07.204)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (16:25.174)
100 % wrong for the same ride. No one starts off thinking that's the destination, right? You play your best tennis and you see what it gives you. One of the things that I have seen to your point Alvin, this is now five and three, right? This was the best installment yet. We've had a few others, right? The fourth installment was Rome, right? Not that long ago. Carlos right off, Yannick right off of his.

quote unquote, suspension and such. So to me, right? To me, what I like about all of this is it seems to be getting better and the two of them seem to be getting more comfortable in the one and two spot. And in that rivalry, we're kind of holding tennis up. We're the new torch bearers, right? For tennis. And I like that term torch bearer because let's face it, whoever is at the top is bearing the torch for where the tour is now, where tennis is now and where they're taking it.

And they're not just going around in some circles. They are forging ahead. They are literally taking the, taking the torch and they're sprinting right now with the darn torch and going forward. So yes, we're there. I like to think that Coco and arena are also there, right? arena needs to handle her post-match a little bit better, right? And, kind of get over herself a little bit, but she also needs to appreciate that. She also needs to appreciate that.

Alvin Owusu (17:46.42)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (17:52.434)
She may not be ready for Coco to be her rival, but the rivalry is being born all the same. And I think she and her mind was chasing Ega and thought that once she beat Ega, that she's now the undisputed and forgot that Coco had a word or wanted a word and wanted to have a little interjection. And I feel like that's also the great thing about tennis. Don't think that you've moved on without me. I'm not done until I say I'm done, right?

That's the best part of best of three or best of five. And I love that about the slams because this journey, this, we will come back to this over and over. And isn't that really the best part about the game? In an NBA, they get to have bragging rights for the better part of six months to a year as defending champs. And it doesn't matter what happens until the next year, you're still kind of defending champs. In tennis, you're defending champs for a whole whopping three.

three months, maybe three weeks until the next time we play. And I used to hate that about tennis. I felt like tennis needed a real season. And now I appreciate the up and down. Buddy, you got me this time. We'll play again in two weeks. You know what mean? And you love that because buddy, only time it's no longer rivalry is when I start pulling away from you and for whatever reason, you don't keep up. And I feel like that's what center and Alcaraz are both doing now.

Alvin Owusu (19:01.589)
This time, this time.

Torrey Hawkins (19:18.056)
He's up what five and now or so with the the route last five, sorry, five of the last five, but make no mistake. You and I both know center's not going away. You're right. And so you're almost like, he got away with one this time, but it was a phenomenal match. And you and I are both looking forward to the time. But not only does he notch his next win or his next, his most recent win being Yannick center, but we're looking forward to the next match. Guess what?

Alvin Owusu (19:19.731)
Five the last five the last five alcaraz is one the last five in a row.

Torrey Hawkins (19:46.6)
They are too. And that's part of the game. And I love that about tennis. So I'm going to go back and talk about where I thought both of them were in Australia. And I'm going to kind of talk about where I think they are now. I think this match, and I hate to give so many accolades and talk to them so early in this rivalry, right? I feel like I love your word organic. Let this happen organically. Let it kind of come to, let it come.

Alvin Owusu (19:46.655)
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Alvin Owusu (20:14.559)
Well, I think the organic part, though, is because like right now, everyone's paying attention, right? We just had this. Earth shattering, like truly monumental tennis match that that really brought like it, it really transcended tennis and brought people from outside of our sport to pay attention. But I think that originally happened in twenty twenty two. It's twenty twenty two and they played at the US Open the first time and that match went five sets.

Torrey Hawkins (20:15.518)
Why is this gonna come?

Torrey Hawkins (20:24.052)
How could you not? Right.

100 % right.

Torrey Hawkins (20:40.062)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (20:42.259)
and they were sliding around. I mean, they were doing their thing, right? It was a, it was a slightly younger version of what we saw on Sunday, but that was the one where like people were like, who was this Carlos Alcaraz kid? And so that was the beginning of it. And I think now we're worse. And that was not because of he hadn't won any grand slams yet, right? He was a few days short of winning his first grand slam center. I don't think it was even ranked top 10 at the point at that point. So

Torrey Hawkins (20:47.038)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (20:50.494)
today. yep. On Sunday. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (20:56.134)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (21:07.7)
Right.

Right.

Alvin Owusu (21:11.081)
very, very budding, very, maybe, maybe, Wait, was he really?

Torrey Hawkins (21:12.948)
It may have been six in the world,

I'm just saying, I'm putting it out there. I'm putting it out there. So many of my lists that made top six were on their way and a handful of the six, don't get me started. Don't get me, don't get me started.

Alvin Owusu (21:25.153)
You gotta pass through, you gotta pass through at some point. So I think that it's not too soon, it's early, but considering how much they've both accomplished so early, it's really just a hey, pay attention, it's happening. It's happening, pay attention.

Torrey Hawkins (21:36.017)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (21:40.434)
Yeah, 100%.

Torrey Hawkins (21:45.872)
It's happening and watch and watch and enjoy because Alvin in three, four, was that when Fed first started putting it down? I was traveling with some players. Obviously it determines quite a bit was watching it literally as it happened. And I want to say Fed won nine of 12 give or take slams and those within those years, like four, five and six.

Alvin Owusu (22:08.959)
He won three out of four, three years in a row. Disgusting. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (22:13.116)
Right. And it was almost suffocating the stranglehold he had on pro tennis. Not for other players lack of trying, by the way, he was just on, on another level. He had sprinted so far ahead. You were wondering like, what, where'd he go? And it was, I also bet he's playing well right now. Right. I, he was playing so well. It was disgusting. If you got a set off there, you were playing great tennis. Like that was almost the consolation prize dude.

I took a set off, I'm playing great right now. Who beats Fed? And then all of a sudden, you're Marazzi, right? Right, so these are the kind of things where you're like, wow, this is starting to all, not, and I hate people saying, oh, we're waiting for somebody else, this is getting boring. No, no, no, no, no, it's not boring. It's actually a master class in tennis. 100%.

Alvin Owusu (22:47.298)
Hachim Arazi, didn't he beat him like two tournaments in a row?

Alvin Owusu (23:04.351)
And also aesthetically pleasing too, very beautiful game to watch.

Torrey Hawkins (23:08.625)
And then at some point the doll started getting his footing in the hardcore, besides just the clay and obviously on the grass as well. And of course we can't knock out Novak who was like, hey, y'all forgot about me. We get all that. That part's obviously proven history and we refer to it almost too often. Here's what I like about these two. We've been wondering in this post-goat era who was gonna step up. And while we were asking the question, they've been quietly building the resume of, by the way,

Alvin Owusu (23:12.384)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (23:37.949)
Hello, and now here we're seeing they are not only here, but they have put together a match that in my opinion rivals some of the best. The only reason I didn't give it number one was out of nostalgia for the best matches I've seen. I would have given it one.

Alvin Owusu (23:53.07)
Right. Yeah, I was like, I came out of that match and I was like, this is one of best three matches I've ever seen in my life. I don't know what one and two are off the top of my head, but I'm not going to say one.

Torrey Hawkins (24:00.271)
ever. Right. But I can't give it to him yet out of nostalgia. However, the quality was that high. Now with that said, and I've had a day or two to come down off that high, I feel like

Alvin Owusu (24:04.619)
But god it was so good.

Torrey Hawkins (24:16.805)
It's going to be a great rivalry going forward. Every match may not be this quality, but I will tell you, we have now been blessed to see such good tennis and it being countered so that I feel like it will lift the level of tennis around the world period because now everybody else now realizes you have to be that good.

Alvin Owusu (24:39.659)
You know what, okay, I'm so glad you said that. I was thinking about this today because I saw an interview that Ben Shelton did and I think it was the, some of the guys from the Tennis Channel desk were asking him like, you know, when you're watching a match like this, what does it, what impact does it have on you and the other guys in the locker room? And he's like, you know, I didn't really watch it. started picking, he said I picked it up at six five and the fifth when I heard the match got really good. I knew it was tight and started watching. like, but when you see these guys out here, like he's like, know, they're.

Torrey Hawkins (24:57.435)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (25:07.841)
they're sliding around from the baseline there, it's crazy. He's like, as far as impact on him, he's like, you know, I don't really play that style from the baseline. And he went kind of into the, a little bit into the details of like differences in game style between him and those two. And I thought to myself,

Torrey Hawkins (25:22.864)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (25:26.515)
If you're already on the pro tour, this won't impact you because it's too late. You more or less are who you are when you are there. You can incrementally get better, but if you are a 60 in the world player for three, four years, you're not gonna all of a sudden jump to top 10 and then start threatening the top five. Tiger doesn't change stripes, right? You get a little better.

Torrey Hawkins (25:32.753)
Mm. Mm.

Right. At this time. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (25:48.209)
Right. 100%. Right. You are what you are. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (25:52.318)
You can push up in the 30s maybe have a good run, you know, get better, but you're not going to change who are as a player. And I say that to say for those who are in that age range of 20 to 28, I think they've are they're already too ingrained. Their tennis DNA is already too ingrained in who they are as players. They're not going to adapt to become players that start to hurt. the point I made it maybe, but and.

Torrey Hawkins (26:10.351)
Right, right, right. Adapt, morph, evolve, right. Probably won't happen. 20 maybe, but not 24 plus.

Alvin Owusu (26:19.669)
But here's the nuance difference between 20 and 17. And when we went through this the other night and I was talking about players that I think can challenge center in Alcaraz, they need to be young, big hitters. Center is 23 years old and Carlos is 22, right? They hit the scene, let's call it four years ago.

Torrey Hawkins (26:24.124)
Mmm, good.

Alvin Owusu (26:42.241)
Y'all found second 17 years old four years ago. He was 13. He was a junior tennis player watching these pros on TV and going, oh, wow, I can do I and then he goes out to practice and he's doing what they're doing. He's training through the sense of this is what I have to get to. And so that's and same thing goes for for Mensic. And that's why I said, like, I don't think anyone who's currently one of their, you know, contemporaries, if you will, is going to be the one to challenge them. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (26:46.905)
Right.

Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (26:59.673)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (27:03.537)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (27:10.753)
Right, right, good word. 100%. Right, to your point, some of the older contemporaries are maybe now antiquated as a result of this match.

Alvin Owusu (27:12.051)
It's gonna have to come from a generation that saw them do this.

Alvin Owusu (27:22.539)
Casper said that. Sitsipas said that. This is before the French Open, right? They were like, you know, the game has changed since we've been out here. This is the change. Yeah. Bublik said it as well. Like this is the change. This is the personification of the change. So you need to have, I feel you need to have grown up seeing this type of tennis, aspiring for this type of tennis.

Torrey Hawkins (27:28.599)
Right. 100%. Meddy, Meddy mentioned that a little bit, you know, in Australia in one of his interviews. Yup, you're right.

Torrey Hawkins (27:40.721)
100%.

Torrey Hawkins (27:45.528)
Right. I see. I'm picking up what you're putting down the

Yes, I agree. Here's the flip side. Change doesn't come easy. While it inches forward, every once in the tectonic plates overlap and you get an earthquake, that's what we have. Now we're back to the inching forward. There's gonna be a very strong arm wrestle to get this out of the hands of Novak, Zverev and such. And there's gonna be another ascendancy of the next wave coming forward.

And who are they behind it? We know one and two are going to be spoken for. I want to go back real quick about Ben Shelton and the other pros. The other pros don't watch like we watch. When I was watching players, when I was coaching players on the tour, Alvin, you're so wrapped up in your schedule, your players tournament, your players needs, your players daily, this, that, and the third. As soon as your players out of the tournament, you're shifting gears into the next tournament and you're on to training.

for that next match, the next event. You don't watch, watch. You keep tabs on. know, the fact that he tuned in at six, five and the fifth shows you he was already in two workouts, working on hitting serves. He's on the coach with his dad, on court, I should say. He was already moved on, onto the grass. He's ready to go. Somebody texted him, called him. He picked up his phone, right? Where you and I and others are glued to the TV, right? Being entertained.

Alvin Owusu (29:12.257)
We're being entertained.

Torrey Hawkins (29:15.984)
The other top 10 top two in the world were literally, unless they happened to have a reason to watch and that was their off day in that schedule that week, they weren't watching. They're going to watch the replay. They're going to go back and watch it. They're like, But I think they will be affected because they're to look at the tennis and they're going to be like, you got to be freaking kidding me. These guys are playing at a high level. I better pick it up. I guarantee you Ben goes back and watches the match. Too many people will bring it up to him and ask his opinion of it. And he will say,

course you want to set off Al Kharaz. He will have to go back and say, hmm, let me see what I did right. Let me see how he counted it. And as you watch film on anybody, you're going to watch the film with that match. You're going to be like, my goodness. I had no idea they were capable of doing that. When I played him, he only did this. He now has this level, many, levels higher than I thought. So I wanted to say that about the top and you can't judge them slash blame them. But at the same time, you can't take their word for it because they're so ingrained in their own thing.

Alvin Owusu (30:03.297)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (30:14.692)
The only thing bringing them together is the tournament and the schedule. That's what brings these guys. Everybody's so, I hate to say, selfish. They're, in their own little, they have to be. Now don't think they didn't watch or aren't paying attention or that their coaches and teams aren't paying attention. Because I walk away from that match and I'm coaching Arthur Fees, Ben Shelton, Tommy Paul, Francis, MnSic, whoever that next up and coming player is. I'm thinking to myself, okay.

Alvin Owusu (30:19.967)
Yeah, that's true. Well, they have to be.

Torrey Hawkins (30:44.117)
We normally do this 15 times. We're now doing it 21 times. The level, the bar has been raised and the coach and the player looks at me, gives me any kind of a weird hairy eyebrow. I'm like, do matter of fact, make it 25 because you don't fully understand what you're about to go up against next time you play. I'm not saying I'll play that well every time, but you heard it right here. He has the capacity to play that well every time. And he has officially thrown down the gauntlet on the pro tour.

Alvin Owusu (30:47.295)
Right, yeah, that's fair.

Torrey Hawkins (31:12.353)
and you may not get that set next time, right? It's gonna be.

Alvin Owusu (31:13.761)
Right, wait, which one are you talking about? you talking about Cedar or you talking about Alcaraz? Either or. Either or.

Torrey Hawkins (31:18.211)
I'm talking about any, either or and whoever plays them. I'm talking about if I'm coaching Ben Shelton, you got a set, nice job. You may not get that set next time. You may not. He will not give you that easy break next time. And you're going to have to do that much better just to be where you are. They have raised the level.

Alvin Owusu (31:26.241)
Yeah, that's fair.

Alvin Owusu (31:35.179)
So speaking of some of those other players as we kind of look forward to, we're almost at the right about the halfway mark through the season. Actually, I'm gonna ask you which players do you think, which players are you concerned about based on what they've done the first six months of the year looking forward to Wimbledon and the US Open? But before you answer that, before you answer that.

Torrey Hawkins (31:55.33)
Let me qualify your statement before you ask it. Define concerned. You're talking about winning a grand slam sometime soon? Because I'm concerned for all of them. Who am I concerned with falling out of the top 10? Am I concerned with dropping out off the radar entirely? Help me understand.

Alvin Owusu (32:01.595)
No, no, no, no, no. Sure. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (32:11.697)
Yeah, think someone that's an easy answer is like somebody like Taylor Fritz, are we concerned about him who finished the year number four but has not performed up to that level? Like that would be the, but before you answer it, before you answer it, I wanna go back. Someone asked us to clarify why Sabalenka thinks the way she thinks about Coco, why she thinks she is a superior player to Coco when they're head to head.

Torrey Hawkins (32:19.778)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (32:24.62)
Sure, sure,

Alvin Owusu (32:40.135)
and results in big matches would say otherwise. And I was thinking about this and I was like, you know.

Torrey Hawkins (32:40.782)
Say otherwise. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (32:48.801)
we all revert back to our 12 and unders version of ourselves, right? And the players who have the technical skills past the eye test are the ones that we always assume are the best players. And generally when we're younger, that's kind of the case, right? But then you get players, the moon ballers, the pushers who just win matches, right? Brad Gilbert wrote an entire book on this, Winning Ugly, right? So.

Torrey Hawkins (32:52.718)
100 % 100 %

Torrey Hawkins (33:11.819)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

100%. All I do is win, win, win. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (33:18.345)
Exactly, and it's very symbolic that Cocoa won her first Grand Slam with Gilbert on the bag. And that she is the highest, I think the highest achieving version of that. She can win ugly. And Arena does all the things, carries herself like a number one, blows players off the court, and assumes that that is always what.

Torrey Hawkins (33:26.601)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (33:45.885)
should be the thing that wins and Coco does the other thing to her. And that's why I personally feel like that's why she does not give her the respect she deserves. Please do.

Torrey Hawkins (33:56.574)
I'm going to go further because I think you're hitting on something, but I think it goes much deeper. Number one, a player always thinks their ways is the best. And if it's been successful, they double down on it. you know, Andy Roddick had a acronym on his Reebok shoes back in the day. FIG jam, right? So we all understand the FIG jam.

Alvin Owusu (34:00.666)
gosh.

Alvin Owusu (34:18.571)
Fig jam.

gosh, old days. You're right.

Torrey Hawkins (34:25.485)
especially the just ask me part, right? The point I make with FigJam is that you couldn't tell Andy Roddick at that time that there was a better server, that there was a bigger server, that there was a bigger forehand, that there was a guy who could do it better than he could, okay? Especially in 03.

Torrey Hawkins (34:54.765)
The Roddick now with history and some age behind him will say, I was kind of lucky to win that one in the 03. I came in just before fans ascendancy. And to be honest, I played a pretty good tournament. know what I mean? And while he was very good and I felt because of the big three robbed of about three or four more slabs, was lucky to get the one he did, right? History.

Alvin Owusu (35:05.053)
Right, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (35:21.461)
and all that will give, will serve notice. And again, Andy, if you're watching, shout out to you, brother. I'm still one of my favorite of all time. The point I'm making is, is Irina is in her own capsule. She's in her own world of all things Irina. I am working as hard as I can, as best as I can. I've had the results. I'm in every final. I will continue to get better, which is her mantra. I will come back stronger. And let's face it, she has, right?

You look at body of work. I can't say that she's not the number one player in the world. You look at her results. You look at her time at number one. You look at her overall, 100%. She is the number one. The inferiority of Coco Golf isn't so much against Coco. It's the superiority she feels of herself. And the flip side of that is Alvin, who is she chasing and who did she want to knock off in the clay court season?

Alvin Owusu (35:53.931)
Yeah, of course.

Alvin Owusu (36:10.229)
Hmm. Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (36:19.137)
It was Egor.

Torrey Hawkins (36:20.221)
Egos Fiontek, which was who she beat. And let's face it, had her own level of a Carlos Alcaraz, the Yannick center match in the semi, knocked down, drag out great tennis, Blitzkrieggin back and forth. was a great contest. In time, she will appreciate the hidden tiger, crouching dragon, whatever the movie title was, that Coco makes her play. Up until this time, she has not.

she's also still young. Once she gets older and appreciates, once she's had time to marinate and let herself understand what actually happened in the rock, paper, scissors of the moment, she'll realize that she forced because Coco made her force. And then she will take the, she will take the pill as bitter as it may taste and say, you know what? I've got to deal with this Coco golf because somebody forgot to tell Coco that she also has won a few grand slams.

and is worthy of any body's attention here on tour. She's a little bit high on herself as she has to be in that tour and that role. And she has done so much. How can she not be? But I think her issue is more with herself and who she was chasing and who she beat. And she just in her mind, in my opinion, had looked past Coco a little bit and felt like the only way Coco wins is if I play a bad match and look at all my errors. Heck, I 70 errors.

Alvin Owusu (37:40.182)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (37:47.731)
And that's why I saying what I said, she's not wrong. But what she hasn't given full credit to, hey, why did you make 70 errors?

Alvin Owusu (37:55.33)
There's probably a reason your opponent might have had something to do with those errors. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (38:00.607)
You didn't just say, hmm, think I'll make an error here. 20 more times. The player forced you to, and that is the true rock, paper, scissors of it. And it will take time for her and maturity for her to accept that. And you heard it right here. They too will have their next iteration of that push, pull, you know, up, down, you know.

As I say, rock, scissors of it, of the match itself. And that will continue to get better. And I look forward to their next one as well.

Alvin Owusu (38:29.673)
Yeah, so that's an interesting perspective. As you were talking, I was thinking about, we've often made comparisons here to, in terms of dominance. Irina is the closest thing we've seen to Serena in the women's game since Serena, since her peak. there's, I think there's somewhat of a nuance there that's starting to.

Torrey Hawkins (38:43.327)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (38:49.899)
100%. That's Serena. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (38:58.922)
reveal itself.

Serena, it was Serena versus the field and Serena beat the field. Like she just repeatedly beat the field. And right now it feels like it is like, does not have a rival, but she is not.

Torrey Hawkins (39:05.801)
Right. Repeatedly. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (39:21.759)
In the last four grand slams around versus the field, the field's winning, right? So it's not as like, you think about it, like she gets to the, like in our last four grand slam, she's only won one of them, right? She's gotten to the finals, or three of them. Last three in a row, right? But, didn't play well with them last year. But it's not as clear cut. It's not, she's not winning all of them. She's always there, but she's not winning all of them.

Torrey Hawkins (39:26.548)
Okay. Okay.

Torrey Hawkins (39:34.347)
I'm about to say three of the four of them, right? Right?

Alvin Owusu (39:52.897)
She's lost as many Grand Slam Finals as she's won.

Torrey Hawkins (39:53.86)
add to that.

Torrey Hawkins (39:58.612)
there was a certain Grand Slam champion named Ivan Lindell who was in the same spot, Alvin. And I would certainly not be here to tell you that that was lack of trying or lack of him not being worthy of being there. What I think that speaks to, because the others were not in the other final. It was a different person each time. And here's what I'm getting at with that statement, which proves Arena's point. I should have won that match. I'm here to say, Alvin, and this is only thing I wanna say about it, because I'm not making excuses for Arena. She needs to grow up and she needs to give her give.

Coco Herdu, but she also needs to understand why she felt forced and really internalize that and understand this is the, as you called it, 12 U tennis, the pusher versus the aggressive baseliner, but it's about 30 levels past. And that pusher is unbelievably fast and hitting an open stance backhand cross court, but then two feet of the baseline as I'm backing up, cause I was not a

Alvin Owusu (40:28.578)
Absolutely.

Torrey Hawkins (40:57.481)
appreciating that somebody could do that. And while I'm trying to go inside out again and I'm late hitting a buggy instead of hitting a step up forehand and instead of me coming forward because no one ever comes forward on my ball, she has to appreciate in true Karate Kid style somebody can beat me with this style. speed and and Coco has speed in spades and that's my point. She has not yet fully embraced the fact.

Alvin Owusu (41:14.882)
Speed is a weapon. Like she has to...

Torrey Hawkins (41:26.802)
That that is her antithesis. I'm also going to say, and this is part of her camp's job to get her to understand this and her own maturity to get her head around. She has to get her mind around Alvin. That her ball speed, we talked about this on this podcast, her ball speed, while it's a weapon, it also shows up her foot speed because her ball speed is so big. And I would tell you that Coco not only played a great match, I played a great tournament. We said it before in the preview.

Coco's speed on the clay gives her just enough time to have the edge. We knew going into this match, Coco had the edge. I'm not sure if Arena knew that. And I think at that point in time, Arena needs to understand the profile, your word, of a player that can beat me and start to evolve her game to handle that style.

Alvin Owusu (42:18.018)
Well, so that's the interesting part about that matchup though, and almost the same thing with Sinner and Alcara's, there's only one person. It's just Coco. Obviously, Irina lost to Madison in the final of the Australian Open, that was a very, very different match. She lost for a very, different reason, right? And has beaten Madison since, and has beaten her before that. So we'll take that out. The Coco situation, this was just another version of the same thing that happened in the US Open.

Torrey Hawkins (42:25.043)
Yes. That's right.

Torrey Hawkins (42:34.45)
Sure, 100%.

Torrey Hawkins (42:39.762)
Sure, sure.

Alvin Owusu (42:47.126)
conditions were different, sure, but, right, but when you get down to looking at the tactics of the match, the same thing happened, and it's hard to, right, okay.

Torrey Hawkins (42:47.568)
Great.

Service is different, right.

X's and O's tactics, right? Sure, sure. Which she's not figured out yet. And what does every person who lose to a pusher, they blame the pusher for this, for this, I a pusher, you know I played a pusher. As if the pusher did something illegal and underhanded. The pusher, what was that? The pusher made you play more balls? They put the ball in the court one more time than you did? sad, I'm so sorry for you. As if you taking that risk and that big ball, as beautiful as it is,

Alvin Owusu (43:12.898)
They put the ball in the court? interesting, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (43:23.643)
meant that the aesthetics of it should give you a 5-0 lead. No, that was your choice. And just like it was the counter's choice to put the ball back. You know what, I've mentioned this a few times to some of my players. They act as if the pusher in this case is this relegated level of player. And I've asked them a few times and it's funny, know, because most people don't realize they push when they need to. What? I don't push. buddy, yes you do. Every time you've hit a reset loop, every time you've hit a...

an open stance ball in the corner every time you hit a ball, anything back for the middle deep as you could to get back in play, a reset clay court return, you've pushed. but that was just to get my four, yeah, yeah, you pushed. So we all push, you have to, there's no time you can be on offense all the time, it's just a physical possibility. What has happened is they don't realize off of that ball, what else could you do? And this is my problem with Arena. Arena's played her a few times now.

And she had to have gone back and look at her tape and say, you know what? I see what Coco did. She hit the ball back. went inside out, like I always do. I big backhand. And I should have been going more big down line backhand to her forehand, or I should have come forward more. And I realized now why I lost that match and take the match as a learning lesson and come forward more when she has Coco on the stretch, go back behind her time if necessary, short her more if necessary, but bottom line.

continue to finish the play. She starts the play, other players miss. She hits a big forehand. She comes forward, they miss. Then you got a girl that can actually make that on the run, make that pass, make that dipper. And all of a sudden you have to finish the pattern you started. And that is hard to do, Alvin. That is hard to do. And it's a lot of burden to take on because there's a lot of risk. So now she has to do that if she wants to be who she thinks she is. If she will, she will look back at this match, Alvin and this rivalry.

Alvin Owusu (45:02.359)
right.

Alvin Owusu (45:22.56)
It's a thing now.

Torrey Hawkins (45:22.664)
Cause it's a rivalry. And she will say in two years, I'm hoping it probably more like five years she's governed, know, I want to personally thank Coco Golf for making me a better tennis player because up until that time, I thought I knew what good was. And without Coco, I would have never reached the level that I thought I could get to. I thought I was there and Coco helped me take another level. You heard it right here. I think Nadal did that for Federer.

I think Novak is in it for both of them. And I think as complete as their games look now, Al-Khwarazid and Sinner will continue to push the game to a new level because each of them is basically finishing the other one's sentence. And they are starting to realize, I got to get one more thing against you. I got to have one more thing against you. And guess what? At that point, they already have no holes. Now they're going to get an extra nuance, an extra level, a secret weapon, so to speak.

that they know he beat me with this several times. The out wide serve Alvin that Carlos hits on center on the deuce was countered this match. So much so that it wasn't even a fact until late in the match. But that shows you how fast that center's camp is recognizing the trends against Carlos. That's what Ega, sorry, that's what Arena's team has to now do with Coco. And the same thing for Coco's team. They cannot assume.

just because you out-ground her, hit some big shots, got her flustered, hit some low sights on the forehand, and was able to hit your forehand. They can't assume that you now have Arena's number. Arena will come back stronger, and that part I will give her. And now you have a rivalry. Tennis is the better for both players getting better as a result of the loss.

Alvin Owusu (47:01.674)
Right, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (47:11.106)
Well then let me then kind of like as we look forward to the rest of the year, two players, one on each side that I want to ask, do they have a chance to kind of pop in there and make this interesting? Did you see enough out of Iga in the semi to make you feel like she's back in her skin? Obviously she, okay, great answer. Do you believe in Jack Draper?

Torrey Hawkins (47:35.228)
Yes.

Yes.

Torrey Hawkins (47:41.169)
Don't move on from Higa yet. Do I think she'll win another Grand Slam in this calendar year? I'm not so sure.

Alvin Owusu (47:46.167)
count, I don't put that pressure on her. I wanna say, is she contending? I'm always okay with players getting beat if they bring it, right? She brought a championship level of tennis to arena in that semi-final. She just got beat. She just got beat.

Torrey Hawkins (47:52.76)
Contending yes, I'm with you.

Torrey Hawkins (47:59.653)
I'm with you.

Torrey Hawkins (48:06.661)
100%. But, but I want, but I want to say something, Alvin, and I think what you're saying is very spot on, but you have to also contend with what just happened. The level has now been raised and I just, she was in the doldrums. mean, she was, she was somewhere else. Who knows where she was. God. 1000%.

Alvin Owusu (48:17.972)
Sure, but from where she was before the tournament, was in the lurch, right? But she's back in the fight now. I feel the same and I feel good about that because she's still won five Grand Slips, four Grand Slips, five Grand Slips, five.

Torrey Hawkins (48:32.88)
for sure.

Torrey Hawkins (48:38.469)
think it's four, I think it's four. Whatever it is. Maybe they can tell us in the chat. Here's my point. There you go. So here's my point. But will that be enough going forward? And that's my only issue because now she's been drummed by Coco on clay, which is her best surface. And, Arena's now beat her. So much like some of the other players we've seen, and I know you wanna move on to the other players, very similar. I just say it to say, will it be enough going forward?

Alvin Owusu (48:41.122)
Four Frenches, one US Open. I think that's right. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (49:07.908)
That's my concern and Ega now needs to also retool and create another weapon. She's going to have to get that surges a tad better. It looked the best I've seen it since I've seen her. It's going to have to get a little bit better in general. That's not to say the others won't, but hers in particular will have to get there because that's where it, now I still feel that's the, it's the biggest thing that she attacks other people's returns, other people's weak serves and hers is still attackable. You disagree with that or no?

Alvin Owusu (49:34.38)
Huh, as far as like if we had one thing to work on, I don't know that I would worry so much about that. I think that back to your original point about finishing the drill, I would love to see Arena take a little more variety when she's moving forward, right? Big, apologies, apologies, apologies. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (49:45.496)
Okay, what do think it is?

Torrey Hawkins (49:57.463)
I'm talking about Eega. I'm with you on Arena. I'm talking about Eega. Eega, Arena serves pretty good, Alvin. I'm talking Eega. Will Eega serve? She does so good job, a good job of attacking the return. And yet her serve is still attackable. This tournament, Alvin, her tournament, her serve was very, very good considering what it was in the past. But Alvin, I gotta tell you, if you make

Alvin Owusu (50:03.713)
Yeah, but I was like, I was like, I was like, T, I don't know, man. That sure is fine.

Torrey Hawkins (50:27.223)
your money off of being the one of the best attacking returners in the game. And you still have a weak serve. You know what Agassi did on the Agassi 2.0, really almost 3.0, who had some of the best returns in the world? Agassi retooled his serve, Alvin, and that almost never happens in the men's game. Andre got a pretty good serve there toward the end. Had a nice little down up, almost like a mini, it was kind of a hybrid, it was a hybrid.

Alvin Owusu (50:45.451)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (50:55.876)
pinpoint, pinpoint, he had a platform, but he had a kind of a down hit, hit on the way up, pop with the serve. And Alvin, got a pretty good out wide, had a pretty good down the tee. He got a really good drop shot. He retooled his game to allow his service games to be holds because he knew he had great returns. Novak Djokovic has done the same. He has done a phenomenal job with his serve in recent past. Novak had no serve in no form before he started out and he has a great serve now.

Alvin Owusu (51:12.843)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (51:25.518)
but hits targets, hits serves, he hardly ever gets broken. To my point, that's what Ega's gonna have to do. Because it may not be enough to just be the Ega before, as you say in her scan, it may not be enough going forward, certainly not enough to win a grand slam with these two out there right now. That's what I was getting at. And I wanted to make sure we didn't move on before saying that, because getting back to where she was is great, but what if that is only four in the world level going forward? That was my question.

Alvin Owusu (51:43.305)
Okay, okay.

Alvin Owusu (51:50.242)
I think back in the fight, as long as she's back in the fight, right? Because we can live in a world where someone else got better, which is Irina, right? Irina got better. Okay, now maybe.

Torrey Hawkins (51:55.075)
I get you.

Torrey Hawkins (52:02.083)
Okay. But what if five players out of the top 10 got better and that now puts you at six and you're a former Grand Slam champion. Is that, is that better? Is that good? Is that okay for you?

Alvin Owusu (52:10.487)
Yeah, that's what I I don't I don't know that I'm ready to say that quite yet That's the part where I feel like when I say back

Torrey Hawkins (52:16.131)
Fair, fair. If the serve doesn't get better, she'll be saying it, Alvin, whether she likes it or not. That's just the facts. Other players will do so. think Jazza Panellini's in the same boat, has to get that serve better, period. It's just what it will demand. It's not me saying it.

Alvin Owusu (52:23.67)
Yeah, okay, that's...

Alvin Owusu (52:32.14)
Well, I mean that you could could you could you could then run that out about any the vast majority of the women on the pro tours like second serves are are attackable. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (52:36.579)
And we'll say it and we'll continue to say it. Thank you. And Emma in the borrow is classic case number one of, hey, by the way, in case you didn't get the memo, all WTA players inside the top 10 will have to have a good serve going forward. See, see said memo.

Alvin Owusu (52:51.168)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so the Draper of Things, right? Who is the one that, okay, Jack's the same age, right? He is kind of sniffing top five. I think he's in the top five right now. We're going into Wimbledon. It's going to be, it's gonna be a wild one for him. Like, good looking strapping dude. Now he's a top 10 player.

Torrey Hawkins (52:57.867)
Jack Draper.

Torrey Hawkins (53:13.016)
Yep. Home service ramp. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (53:19.392)
Like he's got all this stuff, like it's going to be a, it's going to be a fun ride. Jack Gripper at Wilmington, but you know, we saw him show proficiency on the clay court. I'm not going to say what I saw against Casper got to the finals of Madrid, whatever. but what I did see was proficiency. He did not look like a, like a lost boy out there. we've, we've seen him make long runs on at the U S open, right? He has beaten Carlos at, was it Indian Wells?

Torrey Hawkins (53:19.511)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (53:39.427)
100%.

Yup.

Torrey Hawkins (53:48.823)
Yep. Any other wealth? Yep.

Alvin Owusu (53:49.812)
Okay, so he's in the conversation. Can he further himself into that conversation? Can he, because he's kind of the one that's there, right? In that top space, you don't believe in Mazzetti. Six through 12 is whatever. Novak is, Novak showed that he can still compete at this level, but this level is, they're going one way, he's going the other way. Yeah, and then Zverev has obviously shown that he is impotent in this space, right?

Torrey Hawkins (53:53.709)
Yep. Great.

Torrey Hawkins (54:05.313)
at all.

Torrey Hawkins (54:13.205)
It's starting to pull away, 100%.

Torrey Hawkins (54:19.583)
Impotent would be a compliment at this point.

Alvin Owusu (54:20.193)
I'm feeling, I'm feeling, I had a good day today. So, but then that leaves Jack, right? So do you feel like Jack?

Torrey Hawkins (54:30.495)
Is it Jack's for the taking? Yes. Jack is right-handed who learned to play left-handed. And just like Nadal, he never had a huge serve. My only issue with Jack is how big can the serve get? How many freebies can he count on? It is grass. His backhand is all day. Everybody knows that his forehand's ironically, given that the backhand's that big and he's right-handed.

I always, I've coached some players, Alvin. Shout out to my main man, Carlson, had one of the best forehands on both sides that I've ever seen at that point in time. Number one at Georgia, top player in world, got to about 400 in the world ATP. That other hand is just never going to have the speed that the other hand will. And I understand the Ami better than most, I've coached a lot of players that have been opposite hand and served, where this hand would serve the other hand and so on and so on.

Alvin Owusu (55:25.976)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was just kind of thinking through what you were saying. Okay, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (55:29.236)
It's, difficult and they are phenomenally skilled because they can do it on both hands. But the serve was always a bit of a, a bit of a mystery in certain terms of actual speed and, and to have that strength slash racket speed in that hand. Here's what I'm saying, Alvin. I don't want to get in the weeds with it. Jack Draper. is his tournament to, it is his for the taking to maintain for and try to get to the semi. I would do three things. Number one, I would hire Andy Murray.

because I would need somebody extremely, not only obviously from Great Britain as the country, but also to understand the pressures of it all, but also to push me to limits I've not been pushed to yet myself. Number two, I would continue to work on whatever I can to increase the fast twitch in my left hand on serving things. I don't care if that's playing Padel on the side. I don't care if that's doing wristers a hundred a day to work on that snap to just keep working on it. I saw my old school buddy.

Lex Carrington's dad with the actual buggy whip doing snaps in a couple of Instagram videos. I know Lex well and I know his dad. His dad was old school, old school and a good player and a great player back in the day.

Alvin Owusu (56:30.972)
yeah, you- do you know him?

Alvin Owusu (56:39.7)
He's got an Instagram account where he's posting a lot of videos. Is that the guy you know or that's the dad of the guy you know?

Torrey Hawkins (56:45.31)
buddy.

That's the dad of the guy I know. Arthur Carrington is the dad's name and Lex is the son. know Lex pretty well. Bottom line, Arthur is a character. I've met Arthur on a few occasions. buddy, and buddy, he is one of my favorite old school characters. I mean, the guy's awesome. mean, long story. I mean, he needs to be doing, he needs to fly to Arthur and get a quick lesson on the snap of that left hand is where I was going with this whole conversation.

Alvin Owusu (56:49.121)
Okay, yeah, his stuff is good. Yeah. Yeah, I...

He's got the ribbons and he's doing the thing.

Torrey Hawkins (57:17.258)
And number three, he now has to continue to finish his pattern, finish the drill. I know that's a big thing with you. He's got to finish the drill Alvin with his coming forward and doing what he did on hardcore. Let's face it Alvin, the guy first breaks through. You don't think the guy's really serious. You don't think he's that good. He kind of surprises you. Now you know he's that good. You prepare for him.

He now has to be ready for the onslaught of guys ready to take him down because now he's the hunted, not the hunter. And I think between those three things, finishing his drill, bigger serve slash buggy whippin' and snap, you know, on that left hand and hiring Murray to understand the burden of doing so in England, right, is tough. And I think he needs to understand that that's gonna in itself is not an easy feat.

I'm just saying it's his for the taking if he doesn't. Another person I think is going to struggle this year that has a lot of expectations who's playing well as of late is Emma Raducano. I don't know if she's fully ready to make that next jump back to the semis.

Alvin Owusu (58:21.525)
You think she's gonna struggle at Wimbledon or you think she's gonna struggle the rest of this year?

Torrey Hawkins (58:29.441)
I think Wimbledon in particular, because there's a lot of pressure on them. We have to understand the pressure that a country puts on you to do some of those same things. And I feel like it's a difficult thing, Alvin. It's a difficult thing to be from that country and have the whole country watching, pulling, and ooh and an on on your good stuff, and the whole country taking a sigh and holding their breath when you don't do something so good. It's a tough thing. We don't...

We're not in a country that small to understand how local that is. You know what I mean? It's a big deal over there. You know what I mean? Huge deal.

Alvin Owusu (59:00.082)
Yeah. So what is, I let's take, let's take, mean, just kind of, you know, the Emma of things, not saying I'm getting sidetracked because I don't really have anything to say on. am a sidetrack. let's take her, obviously take her Grand Slam out of this. Like what, what is her, what do we believe her ceiling is? Cause I think in the last episode I said she is her game style and you know, having grown up on grass court, I feel like she is a

you know, in that second tier of contenders for making a deep run there. But what do we think her ceiling, yeah, what do you think her ceiling is? Like when you say Imurata Kanu, best case scenario, what is, what is, what number's next to her name? Like where do you, where do you rate her as a player?

Torrey Hawkins (59:33.168)
I couldn't agree more, low, but second tier.

Torrey Hawkins (59:47.551)
Best case scenario.

Alvin Owusu (59:48.374)
Yeah, she's healthy, she's playing her best tennis. Is she a top five player? Is she a top 10 player? Okay, yeah, I had six in my head.

Torrey Hawkins (59:55.039)
five or six, a hundred percent, which is, which is phenomenal. I don't think she's close to that. She's not there now and it will take some tough sledding to get to five or six. Make no mistake. This tournament is one she could do it on because we all know the points and the, the, uh, and the impact of this tournament can do. She's playing well now and she's going into this playing well, not, not, not, not playing well. And it's her home quote unquote, her home slam. I think this could be a good term for her.

I do know the country's hopes are on her again. And you have to have a certain metal to understand that and to take and embrace that. know, Hemmings spoke to that quite a bit. Hemmings would be another good addition to the, either one of them's camp because here's a player that was top five in the world for almost his entire career for the bulk of his, the latter end of his career who did it and always seemed to get to quarters or semis of Wimby every year for those six, seven, eight years he was out there. And again, was always in my opinion, underrated.

in terms of his value, but always seem to be there getting the duck. I mean, just kept getting that, and I loved him, Tim Heman for that. And of course, Andy Murray for coming through with both the gold medal and the Wimby, you know, for the country, which I thought was great. So all that to say, I think it's just a little bit of a bigger load on those two players because of the home slam. That's all I'm saying. And there's not many more behind them. Let's be honest. There's not like there's this whole country of people behind them. You know I mean? There isn't. They are it. I don't think there's another good one or two.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:54.507)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:10.027)
Sure. Sure. Okay, that's fair.

Torrey Hawkins (01:01:22.591)
What's the cute little black girl's name? Heather Watson. Heather Watson's done. mean, she's done, done, coming through. I don't know if there's another girl. I did see a good girl from England in the girls French Open. I she got to the final in the junior. So she might be another girl coming up. Anyway, I need to research her and do more before I speak on her. those are, you like seeing that. You like seeing that those players come from up on the clay of all places. You know what Like, hey, how about that? So anyway.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:35.779)
yeah, I don't-

Alvin Owusu (01:01:48.363)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:01:50.468)
look forward to seeing what she does in Junior Wembe.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:52.45)
Okay, okay. I don't have a ton else. I just wanted to make sure we got a chance to really put a bow on the French Open, because I feel like tennis, are moments in time where our sport gets a chance to shine, right? Like really take front and center. Especially here in the US, right? You know, we don't necessarily know what the global impression of tennis is. Like no one does, because you only get it from where you are, right?

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:11.495)
And it did so this past weekend.

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:18.591)
Right.

Right, right, you see it through your lens. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:22.197)
But for TNT Sports to get this gift on their first go-round of having the French Open, a fantastic tournament, I hope we got some new fans. I hope there are more people wanting to still talk about tennis and get excited about it because it's still exciting. We have a lot of awesome characters and if it takes matches like Sabalenka versus Iga or Sabalenka versus Coco or...

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:27.742)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:35.209)
god.

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:38.963)
Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:51.361)
Alcara's versus Center to get people into our house. Whatever, come on in, enjoy it. We've got lots of rooms here, there's lots of space.

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:52.211)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:55.646)
Right, right, right. Yeah. I would add to that match. I would add to that center versus Novak. know, that was another good match of passing the torch, right? And people understand who these people are. They don't necessarily know the game. They don't necessarily know all the X's and O's behind it, but they know who that player is. And to beat that player on that day is a big deal. Tennis has thrust itself back into

Alvin Owusu (01:03:04.383)
Yeah, absolutely.

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:25.83)
relevancy Alvin in on the national and the international scene, which I love. Not that it never is not relevant, but let's face it. Sometimes it can go up and down and there's, it loses its prominence. I love the fact that tennis literally kicked the door down like, Hey, in case you haven't watched tennis in a while, this is what we're doing out here now. You know what I mean? And I thought it was a great tournament. And let's face it, those two players, those six players,

did the sport a huge favor in pushing it forward into this new age of players, both the players that are coming up, the fans that are starting to tune in. Spike Lee was courtside, Alvin Furr of the final of both matches, and Dustin Hoffman and such. We haven't seen those kind of big, big time names outside of Wimby and US Open. They're traveling to the French just to support some of these kinds of players. That was huge. And I want to say this, Alvin, because I think it's important.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:07.924)
You know, that's the thing.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:23.889)
When the sport starts, you said earlier about transcending, when the sport starts to transcend its normal audience and starts to be a front page deal. And the fact that all this hubbub has come from how much credit we're giving these two people over some of the game's greats. I don't care about who said it and what he said. The fact that it's an argument shows you how quality the level is right now. You know what mean? I don't care that Matt got in trouble for saying he could beat Prof and his Prof.

It doesn't matter. We'll never know. But the fact that it was that good and that he, I listened to Mats Milano talk about, and Mats is a former French Open champion, got two or three slams to his title. Maybe more. Forgive me, Mats, if I'm cutting you short. Nothing short of respect. But he's saying it took him a minute to get his head around what he just saw, which let me know, like me, like you, like those who are watching and listening, they also are like, wow.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:54.089)
Right. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:20.692)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:21.745)
That was quality tennis right there. Matt's made people look stupid on the clay. mean, here's a guy that put tennis on lockdown in the mid to late eighties like, dude, is that all you got? I can do this 20 more balls. What were you talking about? And for him to give that kind of credit, these guys aren't the types to give a lot of credit. They're top in the world. They are top of their game. They don't give credit easily.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:44.768)
Yeah, the greats don't easily give that out and when they do, you need to pay attention. You need to pay attention.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:50.939)
And when they give it out in copious amounts, woo, pay attention. So the fact that they, those players have earned that level of respect. Again, I don't think the next match will be quite as fireworks as this one was, but make no mistake, I'm looking forward to the next match and the world is looking forward to the next match. So, and that's what's great about the game.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:08.169)
And I really...

Alvin Owusu (01:06:12.129)
And I like that, I remember in the, I think the Fed and the Dahlkamp is gonna be used a lot moving forward. there's a certain aspect to it that we have to keep in mind that when they were one and two for so long, you had this anticipation building because they both had to get there. as they moved forward in the tournament and if they had a close match or something in the round of 16 in the quarters, you're like, ooh, am I gonna be robbed of?

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:27.996)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:37.153)
Fed Nadal final and you get to the semi finals like oh could be possible to get fed Nadal in the final and I think that's where we are right now it's like when when Lorenzo You know pieced out against Carlos. I was like, well, don't care. That's fine. At least I'm gonna get something I'm probably gonna get Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it. I didn't really I didn't need more tennis today. I'm good. I'm good I'm good. And I think the last thing I'll finish with is like especially in the United States

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:38.288)
Right? Right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:44.122)
Nope. Exactly.

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:50.908)
Keep it moving.

Check, check please, Garcelle.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:06.969)
Roger Federer cut through to the American audience globally, but specifically in the American audience like he made tennis cool in a space where we didn't have any American stars right on the men's side and I think that's what you're getting from Carlos He makes he brings people who appreciate sport They can recognize that he's doing something unique and cool and then Coco is just She has this magnetism to her that

Torrey Hawkins (01:07:14.03)
over.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:36.937)
that brings people wanting to support her, wanting to be.

Torrey Hawkins (01:07:37.895)
Yeah. Yeah. It's a magnetism. It's a youth. It's a humility. It's a young person who is getting comfortable in the space that she's created for herself, which is always awesome to see. And as we always say in our culture, game, recognize game. And when you see that level of player ascending to that level, the highest level,

at the highest stage, know, what did Chris Carter say? Big time players make big time plays and big time games, right? And so, you know, and that's what she did. So you have to appreciate, know, Sabalink is not gonna be okay with that. You know what I mean? How could she be? She's a big time player and she's not gonna appreciate that that's happened, but she will come back stronger. As she said, she will, I believe her. And it will be, I'll be looking forward to that next installment. And I'm really looking forward to the Madison Keys, the Ecosphere on Tex.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:11.238)
Okay, okay, that's...

Torrey Hawkins (01:08:35.332)
I'm looking forward to the Paulini's. I'm looking forward to the Badoz. I'm looking forward to all the ones. Mira, what's, Rebecca. I'm looking forward to all of them having their say in, Hey, you forgot about me. You know what mean? I'm still here, you know, and I look forward to that. I look forward to Draper. I look forward to Lorenzo. I look forward to all these players. I look forward to all these players getting that, getting their game, getting their mind right and starting to, and starting to keep up with these guys because Alvin, if they don't.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:55.093)
Wibbled in semifinalists last year.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:05.53)
These two guys can run off with this thing for the next six to eight slams. Let's be honest.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:09.695)
If you had to guess, I'll leave you with this. If you had to guess if we got to Wimbledon to the final on the men's side and one of Carlos and Sinner is not in the final, which one of them is

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:22.171)
Mm.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:28.762)
It's hard to imagine either of them not being there. Which one?

Alvin Owusu (01:09:33.377)
There's only one right answer.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:35.426)
outside of an injury or something weird happened, right? Outside of something crazy. The only player that has a higher high and a lower low to me is Carlos. He's the player that still could have to me, could still have a bad match. I don't know what it is that Yannick is doing. I don't know if Yannick has a bad day. If he has had one, he flew it past me so low under the radar.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:36.801)
Yeah, they got beat. They got beat.

Torrey Hawkins (01:10:04.794)
didn't recognize it. Carlos, I mean, his bad days are nine out of 10. It's like, oh, I had 13 or 14 errors in a day. It was a tough day for me. I mean, Carlos could still lose to an unknown player on a given day. He's just brash like that. He's young like that. I don't know about Yannick, man. Yannick doesn't. Yannick clears his schedule, man. He has...

Alvin Owusu (01:10:05.812)
It is kinda weird.

Torrey Hawkins (01:10:29.786)
He has once somebody in his team doing research on the guy, 361 in the world. He would never have lost to Blasso. I'll tell you that right now. He would have Blasso's tape like it was the head of the NSA. He'd be looking at him, see you beat so-and-so in 2015. Yeah, I watched that match. mean, that's just what he seems like to me. He's got you figured out. I noticed when you were 15, you switched rackets. I mean, he just has that kind of mindset. Carlos would be the one to answer your question at the same time.

Carlos is the one that I could see not losing a set going into the quarter or semi if he's playing well. so as I say, his high is high and his low could be low, but buddy, you better hope. And as my good friend Adam Guski always said, hope is not a strategy, but you better hope that he has a bad day.

Alvin Owusu (01:11:19.339)
I just want to make sure we're aware of the fact that Carlos has won the last two Wimbledon's. I'm just going to say it. He, he, I don't think it.

Torrey Hawkins (01:11:26.246)
no, no, to my point. That's why it's hard for me to assume that he will not get there. And he beat the brakes off of Novak in his own passing of the torch match last year. Let's not forget that either. Dinged up, bandaged up all as he was.

Alvin Owusu (01:11:35.938)
That Novak, know, while we have him and I, well, while we have him in this kind of like wild card role, I really like this Novak not in the top four seat, because it gives some anticipation to the draws. like, where's he gonna land? And it's like center and Carlos is like, all right, where is he gonna be? Where is he gonna be?

Torrey Hawkins (01:11:50.778)
for sure, for sure.

Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:11:59.85)
One of us has to get them, Right, right.

Alvin Owusu (01:12:02.227)
And whoever doesn't have to deal with him is like better off for it because I still think I still think he could win this tournament

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:06.266)
My last question for you. for sure. But, but he's got a tough road to hoe. Here's my last question. We can put a pin in after this. You, Mr. Alvin Owusu went so far as to think that he was going to retire very quickly after this is after Miami and such, think five weeks was the over under.

Alvin Owusu (01:12:14.273)
Alright.

Alvin Owusu (01:12:21.44)
after.

Alvin Owusu (01:12:25.279)
I said, I said he, I said he was calling it, he was calling it, he was calling it a day after Wimbledon. That's what I said. I said that. Yeah. I said that.

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:31.564)
That's a Wimbledon. Okay, good. I'm glad you put it out there. Are you still standing by that?

Alvin Owusu (01:12:35.361)
I'm still, I'm right here. I'm not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere. I said what I said. I said what I said.

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:38.041)
No.

I think he's bowing out after Australia, but to your point, I do think he's bowing out. Do you think he bows out better now knowing that it's in good hands or because he feels like he can't win one now because they're in his way? That's my question. And I know it's mocks. I know it's 50-50 on both sides of it, but which is 51?

Alvin Owusu (01:13:01.867)
Wait, what's the question again? Tell me, give me.

Torrey Hawkins (01:13:04.301)
The question is, is it time or does he feel like he cannot beat the either of them if he runs into them? So therefore what's the point? I can't get 25.

Alvin Owusu (01:13:17.151)
mean, NoVac logic is not anyone else's logic, but I will say this. Sinner got him pretty clean. I mean, he beat him. He beat him. Beat him clean.

Torrey Hawkins (01:13:24.121)
Agree?

Torrey Hawkins (01:13:32.919)
He beat him. Yeah, right. He didn't lose to him. He didn't let him lose. He beat him.

Alvin Owusu (01:13:36.513)
We've played two Grand Slams this year and one Grand Slam center beat him in the previous Grand Slam Novak beat Carlos. So I don't think that Novak is sitting here right now saying I can't win a Grand Slam. The center thing is an issue, but I think on grass, he still has a really good chance here. Like I've said, he's old man in the post. he will just shoot. Yeah, he will body his way into the semi-finals of this event.

Torrey Hawkins (01:13:45.913)
Hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (01:13:50.839)
Hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (01:14:02.541)
Yeah, yeah, Moses Malone.

Alvin Owusu (01:14:06.465)
And if he, I mean, yeah, he's lost to Carlos in the last two finals, but very, very different ways, but he just beat Carlos. So what does all that mean? I feel like, still feel like it ends up with him leaving after this. I don't think he's going through a hard court run. I don't think he needs to come back to Australia. think, I think this is, I think this is it. I still think this is it. And shit, we'll be in Cincinnati and he'll be there out there hitting balls.

Torrey Hawkins (01:14:32.108)
would ya? I got you.

Torrey Hawkins (01:14:37.88)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:14:38.112)
Whatever, whatever. All right, let's get out of here. Yeah, I'm Alvin, that's Tory, that's the three. Please, if you're watching and you like this kind of stuff, consider subscribing. That's a cool thing. You'll know when we're back out here. But yeah, that's it, we're out.

Torrey Hawkins (01:14:42.04)
same, bro.

Torrey Hawkins (01:14:56.514)
Peace.