Ep. 50: Wimbledon Finals Recap - Congrats to Sinner and Swiatek

Alvin Owusu (00:00.834)
Hey guys, Alvin here. Just a heads up and a bit of an apology on my part. In my excitement for today's podcast, I forgot to plug my mic in. So, Tori and I recorded almost two hours worth of post-Wimbledon wrap up in person this time with my mic unplugged. So, you'll hear some less than stellar quality from my end. Apologies for that. But the content's still pretty good and I hope you guys enjoy it.

Alvin Owusu (00:01.882)
And welcome to another edition of the best three podcast. I'm still Alvin, not in CDOB, I'm in CDOA. And that's still Tory. Tory, how you doing,

Torrey Hawkins (00:01.902)
And welcome to another edition of the Best Free Podcast. I'm still Alvin, not the CEO of EO, the CEO of A. And that's still Tory. Yes, sir. I'm doing good, Alvin. How you doing, brother?

Alvin Owusu (00:14.894)
I'm doing well. It's little interesting that usually we do this from about 30 miles away from each other. But right now, I can see you right there across the hall. Yeah, right across the hall. So we're gonna, we just finished up watching Center vs Alcares, what was their final.

Torrey Hawkins (00:19.438)
You

Torrey Hawkins (00:24.081)
We're less than 30 feet. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (00:33.486)
We just started watching Senator Maris Arthur as... I'm still not ready. I'm still not ready. I'm trying to get ready. Give me a long range throw. Let me get my thoughts together.

Alvin Owusu (00:44.142)
Yeah, sure. mean, it's, you know, center three sets to one against Alcaz. I don't remember the exact score, something like four, six, six, four, six, four, six, four, yeah. And it was interesting. We watched the match together in person, which was cool. It's always fun to do. It had its It had its moments. We had a nice little contentious crowd of other followers who came in during this watch.

Torrey Hawkins (00:53.422)
6-4, 6-4. And it was interesting. We watched a smash together. Yep, Which was cool. And had his moments.

Torrey Hawkins (01:10.658)
That's true, that's true. Shout out to, shout out to T-Rab for, for always, always bringing a very unique perspective on the tennis matches.

Alvin Owusu (01:13.73)
T-Rap 4. T-Rap 4. Always.

Alvin Owusu (01:20.372)
Absolutely, Joel Curley always throwing in the, speaking for the casual tennis fan, right, speaking on behalf of the casual tennis fan, which is, it's good for us to hear those perspectives and always make sure that we, you know, we talk about tennis at a certain, I like to consider a high level, but not to the point of excluding people, but to the point of including people, right, like helping people become better tennis fans.

Torrey Hawkins (01:23.118)
Yes, Yes, yes. It is.

Torrey Hawkins (01:39.438)
but not to the point of excluding people, but to the point of including people, like helping people become better tennis fans. My own personal mission in life is to bring people to the sport that they consider to come up in the sport. So it's always been a very similar to that. And I think my overall tennis, if you will, mantra is to help connect the game

Alvin Owusu (01:50.062)
My own personal mission in life is to bring people to the sport that didn't necessarily come up in the sport. always wanted to do very similar to our.

Alvin Owusu (02:06.968)
How could that be a real game?

Torrey Hawkins (02:09.261)
It's bigger than the game, right? It always connects us at a certain level in life. It's a microcosm, right? And, you know, I shout out to Joel and Travis for helping us to see that from time to time. Alvin.

Alvin Owusu (02:21.835)
out.

What did you think today? If you had to sum up your headline, what was your headline?

Torrey Hawkins (02:24.427)
What did you think today, if you had to sum it up with a headline, what would your headline be tomorrow in the AJC, for an example?

Alvin Owusu (02:36.948)
perfect example. too good. Synergist, he's too good. And when you take all of the things that we've talked about, not only over this Fortnite, but over the last five or six weeks or so, this being what I call a shooter's paradise, right? His weapon of choice is just raw pace. Forces his opponents to be damn near perfect.

Torrey Hawkins (02:54.945)
This being what I would call a huge paradise, his weapon of choice is just raw pace, which forces his opponents to be damn near perfect when trying to find ways to hurt him. And I think this is not that I've

Alvin Owusu (03:06.51)
We're trying to find ways to hurt him. And I think, um, this is outside the headline. We're now in the body of the, of the, of the piece at this point, outside of that, like Carlos had to do a lot to find places, like places to extract errors and points from Yannick, guess point one is he didn't find a lot of errors. Um, and point two, once, once Yannick got his grips in, that was tough sledding, man. That's what, that's, that's, he was bringing a lot.

Torrey Hawkins (03:13.709)
Right Yeah

Alvin Owusu (03:35.244)
A lot of a lot of pop, not a lot of room for error. Carlos, the magic trick that Carlos had to pull to get, from down a break in the first set at 2-4 to come back, fantastic point, like that took everything out of him to win that on set point. Like Yannick looked at that and goes, you can't do that for another three hours. And I don't think any of us felt like he could.

Torrey Hawkins (03:38.566)
Right right right Right Right

Alvin Owusu (04:05.262)
either. That would be perfect.

Torrey Hawkins (04:07.82)
And you're not gonna be perfect, right? So there it is. I'm gonna counter slash add. This will be a weird roundabout story. My father worked for Boeing for many, many years. And I remember in the mid 80s, early 90s, he was a low level executive to mid level executive with Boeing. And they took all the executives over to Japan for this big, this whole movement that Japan was going into. And it was called

Alvin Owusu (04:11.84)
other founder slash pet.

Alvin Owusu (04:30.35)
Okay.

Torrey Hawkins (04:36.928)
TQC, I remember it like it was yesterday, because my father came home, ranting or even about it, total quality control, right? And TQC, especially in the parts department and in the service department and the manufacturing was all about reducing the margin down to micrometers of what it would take to make something dependable, duplicatable, and just to last. Toyota, of course, was one of the...

Alvin Owusu (04:50.03)
reducing the barge of what it would take to make something physical, do physical, and just relax.

Torrey Hawkins (05:04.597)
know, preeminent companies at that time, But TQC and literally, right? TQC was, they had it down in the 80s and 90s as a way to make the margin so small that your part, whatever it was, was going to fit last and produce a workable machine for years to come. So I'm asking my dad, I'm 10 years old, give or take at the time, well dad, what do you mean TQC, micrometers? Okay, I understand that from a...

Alvin Owusu (05:05.326)
Six Sigma lean production.

So, a much power wrench, right? Talk one to two, one to one, plan to buy it, buy it, it, it. And my brother says, for the people of the time, he didn't realize power wrench, he hey, we're free, I have this cage. Yeah, the cage. This much, says, you got this much versus this much. And all of sudden, I started thinking about, I am in.

Torrey Hawkins (05:34.516)
certain level, but what is our range, right? Talking one to two, one to 1.25 micrometers. And my father says, Tori, we didn't know at the time, but we didn't realize our range is anywhere between a half inch to three inches. And I'm like, three inches, this much. He says, yeah. So you got this much versus this much. And all of a sudden, Alvin, I started thinking about, I am a wing nut.

Alvin Owusu (06:01.954)
Yeah

Torrey Hawkins (06:03.083)
on an airplane wing, three inches of variance versus literally 0.125. Which wing nut do I want on the airplane in my wing? I want that wing nut from Japan, case in point. I bring us back to this. Yannick Center's TQC is 0.125 and Carlos's range is three plus. His ability to be loose is there.

Alvin Owusu (06:28.974)
his ability to eat boots is there. His ability to eat are the beautiful types and his to kind of just move his range is too broad. And if he's funny, he's these corn peaches every time. But if his range is too broad...

Torrey Hawkins (06:32.915)
His ability to be unbelievable at times and his ability to be kind of just, his range is too broad. And if he's playing great, he beats Yanuk every time. But if his range is broad, he has that day in him to not be. And Yanuk will rarely be off 0.125. And that's where I wanted to bring, I would entitle my article TQC.

Alvin Owusu (06:48.13)
He has that thing in him to not be. And he will barely be off the point of... Right. Right. That's I want to bring. You know, I will... I entitle my article to TTC. And if it's not perfect or car here, you will TTC on the paper. Which is, you know, the...

Torrey Hawkins (07:02.395)
And if you're not perfect or darn near, you will lose the TQC on those days when your variance is too broad.

Alvin Owusu (07:14.92)
range of tolerance, if you will, is something that we see reflected in lot of places, especially when we're comparisons of Japanese-made things versus non-Japanese-made things. think about, like, even like Mazda. Mazda, the gap between the door and the side panel is, like, industry-leading. Like, it is so thin. Every time. Every time. They don't miss. Yannick's tennis rack.

Torrey Hawkins (07:15.312)
That's

Alvin Owusu (07:44.462)
think most people know that tennis rackets come off of the rack and with variances in their weight. Plus or minus X amount of grams. Rackets said it's supposed to be 310. They have plus or minus tolerance on brands that like three grams, which you might buy two rackets that are exactly the same or three of seven ones, three 13. They're both supposed to be 310. That's a big difference. Not Yannick's. Yannick's is like, there's one.

Torrey Hawkins (07:44.65)
Right

Alvin Owusu (08:13.134)
309 through 11, like you probably can't tell the difference. So I'll push this back to you then. As we're talking about Yannick Center, who now has, what are we now? Two Australian Open titles, one US Open title, one World title. So that's four Grand Slams, Yannick, T'Karlo's is five. Five for the Friday, that right? Yep. What is it about Yannick's tennis that allows him to

Torrey Hawkins (08:13.729)
Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (08:24.681)
Two Australian and five of them, US. And now Wimby, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (08:33.436)
I feel great, is that right? What is it about Janik's tennis that allows him to be so stable? I think it's his entire approach to the game. I think it's everything about his strokes, everything about his tactics, everything about his footwork, everything Alvin comes back to. Is this the highest percentage shot?

Alvin Owusu (08:42.872)
be so stable.

Alvin Owusu (08:56.929)
everything.

Is this the highest percent struck by the

Torrey Hawkins (09:03.311)
I can play at this time. And let's take that and let's amplify that times two. Is that the most highest percentage place I can hit it from? And then what's the most or the best and ideal contact point, strike, depth and ball that I can give you so that I can get the most likely return of that shot. And I will build my patterns from there. If AI were a person,

Alvin Owusu (09:05.87)
Okay.

is that the most high percentage place I could have gotten. And it's what the most or best ideal context for strength, depth, and all that I can give you so that I can give you the most likely return of that shot. And that's the goal I have for today. If A, I'm working person, right? If this is a working person.

Torrey Hawkins (09:31.229)
Right? If Vision were a tennis player, right? He would be Yannick Center. And I think when you look at that from that standpoint, that's what I look at. When I look at using Vision and I look at a Captain America, right? There's some other worldly things that have to happen for Cap to be as good as Cap was, is, depending on which episode of Marvel you're watching. Cap was

Alvin Owusu (09:36.014)
Yeah. yeah, from that standpoint, that's what I look at. What I look at is...

America, right? There's some other things that have to happen.

Alvin Owusu (09:58.382)
You

Torrey Hawkins (09:59.567)
amazing heart, amazing effort, amazing. Is that all you got? And then you added some superlatives to it, right? Unseen foot speed, insane shot making ability, insane strength, speed and such, right? But there's still that variability of there's gonna be a day that you can't just rely on your superlatives. There's gonna be a day where your tolerance is just too broad.

Alvin Owusu (10:28.43)
And that's what I'm made of. I feel yet late in my career. I have to admit, let's be real. I've played a pretty high percentage of matches in the franchise. Some of the things happened took a lot of own risk. He really should have won the first hit for being great. Right. It took Carlos being the most Carlos version of Carlos to prevent him from doing so. And I need to be clear here. We talk about what happened with Yannick being a double match point, right?

Torrey Hawkins (10:28.593)
And that's what happened today, Alvin. I feel Yannick played a very high percentage match. Let's be real, Alvin. He played a pretty high percentage match in the French. Some superlatives happened to allow Carlos to win. He really should have won the French if we're being real. Let's be honest.

Torrey Hawkins (10:49.96)
Right

You gotta be up, don't imagine the point, right? But, I think if we're gonna talk about ifs, like you brought this up last week when we were chatting, if Carlos doesn't have an issue with the thing in his eye early on,

Alvin Owusu (10:58.06)
But I think if we're going to talk about ifs, like you brought this up last week when we were chatting, if Carlos doesn't have an issue with the thing in his eye early on, that maybe he's able to take advantage of some of opportunities he had in the first set, and is able to steal that first set, because he was in there from the very beginning. So I say it's all valid. It's all valid. It's also valid. But to your point about Yannick,

Torrey Hawkins (11:11.497)
Right. Right. 100%. Yep. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (11:25.678)
in his very, very small margins of variance, in a space like Wimbledon, where everything is happening so fast, grass is so fast, it does not leave a lot of room for error, It's imagined to have generally won by high amounts of winners.

Torrey Hawkins (11:40.892)
Best are generally won by high-melt winners.

Yeah. Right. Double faults. Right. Right. Remember that. Yeah, that was late, late to mid, late first, early to mid second, I think was when that stat was taken. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (11:57.954)
Late first, early second, I that's way it.

Alvin Owusu (12:14.36)
Carlos had six aces, seven double faults. I think he creeped up to about nine because just in that particular game he started throwing and feeling them. But we were talking about what does that actually reflect, right? And the conversation was around, OK, so center's not throwing in a lot of aces, but he's not throwing in lot of the faults. It just kind of seems like he's not actually going that big risk on the first. Whereas Carlos, obviously the double faults are high because he's feeling pressured.

Torrey Hawkins (12:14.694)
Yeah.

Right. he was

Alvin Owusu (12:43.49)
go big on the second serve and but then the other side of it is he's also got the aces because he has to go bigger.

Torrey Hawkins (12:52.369)
fortunate enough to convert and to strike the chalk. The flip side of that Alvin is, as we watched, the aces started to tick up. I think he had no aces in the first and the second, and had seven in the third. I don't know what the stats were in the fourth, but he clearly had a few and held serve just fine. And I always felt like Carlos was, he was close. At any given time, you felt like he could turn it around.

Alvin Owusu (13:12.078)
And I always felt like Carlos was, he was close. And any good time, he felt like he could turn the level. But at the same time, he was just a bit more important thing. Did not have the ability to turn it on completely. And this is back to our TBC. I'll say, the TBC is not only hungry, his level of confidence is broad. Every time we play a good point, he was like.

Torrey Hawkins (13:21.607)
But at the same time, he was just a bit more mortal today. He did not have the ability to turn it around completely. And this is back where TQC comes in. The TQC did not allow him, his level of margin was too broad. Every time he played a good point, he played a bad point. Every time he had an ace, he had a double fault. There was one game out of him where he started the game off with a double fault, got down low 30, end up having three aces to finish the game.

Alvin Owusu (13:40.832)
everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (13:50.501)
You're not going to have three aces a game to hold serve every time. You're just not. So at the end of the day, as well as he played to help cover the spread, if you will, of his range, he also had too much, at least today, had too much of the negative of the excess, right? In the air department to really be competitive in a very competitive match. was always, he was fighting himself and

Alvin Owusu (14:04.398)
That's too much.

Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (14:19.631)
Yannick's day is what it felt like to me. He just wasn't his normal self. I would like to speak more to that down the road. But suffice it to say that he was not his optimum self. Some of it had to do with Yannick for sure. The other part I had to do with, he played pretty well all week, Alvin, last two weeks, and he played some pretty good tennis against several players. Today was not his best match. I think we can all be pretty comfortable in saying that.

Alvin Owusu (14:28.312)
So, was not his own self.

Yeah, but I mean, like we talked about this during the match and I think we've mentioned it on this podcast before. I know I have. When you look, when these two players get against each other, when you look at all the stats in the matches prior, you almost have to disregard them because what they do against other players is not necessarily reflective of what they can do against each other. The opportunities aren't there.

Torrey Hawkins (14:54.97)
know I have. When these two players get against each other, when you look at all the stats...

almost have to disregard them because what they...

Torrey Hawkins (15:13.198)
Right, Aren't there as often, right, right. Option A, option B are countered immediately. So we're now left with option C and D and maybe even E to your point, Alvin. He was tight on drop shots, Carlos, right? He missed two or three crucial drop shots in the second that you're like, he makes that ball easily. He made some drop volleys that were a foot, foot and half from the net.

Alvin Owusu (15:27.4)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (15:42.476)
a few days ago against Taylor that you were like, wow, that's a pretty delicate, perfectly cooked drop shot right there on a drop volley off of a reflex serving volley second shot move. That's pretty good for a guy that's not serving volley or who perhaps grew up a little more on clay than on hardcore. And today he was missing routine forehand drop shots. Even when he made a couple, there was a couple of drops as he had Alvin that were probably middle to the back part of the service box. And you're like,

Alvin Owusu (15:45.614)
Thank

Alvin Owusu (16:10.938)
Yeah, Yannick comes up and hits running forehands like moving forward at the height of the net.

Torrey Hawkins (16:14.438)
with options, right, with options. Could have gone anywhere. You know what I mean? And so at that point that lets you know, that lets you know that Carlos wasn't truly Carlos or least the optimum Carlos that we've seen. And that happens, that happens at any level. I don't care if you're playing a level six in your hometown or you're playing a level one national plays, what's going on right now. It was simply a matter of it wasn't his best day. It happened to in the final, unfortunately for him.

Alvin Owusu (16:18.36)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (16:27.086)
mean, yeah, yeah, Saturday night was easy. I went to your plan. Level 6, know, if you're on a travel plan, national plate is going to work. It still a good map of it wasn't as best day to have me in a final first round. But you have to go out to TTC, the total quality control of the area.

Torrey Hawkins (16:43.322)
But again, I go back to TQC, the total quality control of Yannick clearly affected him because when you're not playing your best and you need that best, you start to force impress a little bit.

Alvin Owusu (16:48.686)
clearly affected him. So when you're not playing your best and you're eating that best, you start to force yourself So that's my question then, like if you were, I'm gonna press this, you on this one. The level that Carlos was, that he was able to produce today, do you think that that was a Carlos induced issue or a Yannick produced issue? Because I I think, I think

Torrey Hawkins (17:00.441)
Sure. The level that Carlos was able to produce today. Do you think that that was a Carlos induced issue? Great. It's a great question. What do you think? issue is that Carlos will do this. He came up playing well. He got down, he gave up a

Alvin Owusu (17:18.542)
I think it's Yannick. the issue, not necessarily the issue is that Carlos will do this, he came out playing well, right? He got down, he gave up an early break, like he was playing well and then had a sloppy game at two, I guess it was two all, got broken, okay, because Yannick solidifies the break. And then he comes back and he pulls out this Carlos magic, right? Which he does, that can happen against anybody, right?

But in the very first game on the second set, what happens? Center breaks. Right? He's not able to get that break back. Someone else is going to slip up. Taylor Fritz or, what does that to Taylor? Let's say Andrzej Wublow, right? Is likely not going to serve and win five straight service games from that, of that break against Carl Safferis.

Torrey Hawkins (17:55.21)
Never to relinquish by the way

Sure. 100 % point well taken. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (18:17.388)
where Yacht Center is. don't get those opportunities. You mess up, he capitalizes and we're on to the third set at that point. And that's exactly what happened. Carlos did that to Taylor. First game of the match. Taylor gets broken. Carlos is gonna sniff the rest of the set. That's it. That was your chance. And you messed it up. And then we get into that third set and it was about

Torrey Hawkins (18:30.373)
It like Carlos did that to Tim. First game of the set of the match. Killing it against Brogan. Carlos was getting snipped the rest of the set. That's it. That's your chance. Exactly. And then we get into that third set and it was about three-all. We watching the match. And I said, man, this feels like a really breaking file third set right now. I think we're in the set. We're winning the match.

Alvin Owusu (18:47.214)
three all, watching the match, and I said, man, this feels like a really break and file third set right now.

I think whoever wins this hat is going to win this match. And what did the crowd say? What did the rest of you say? What did you guys say to I got one person yelling, this is not, this is going to go five. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Torrey Hawkins (19:09.132)
you

Torrey Hawkins (19:13.06)
We've we hit a low which means the magic Carlos was not there.

Alvin Owusu (19:21.408)
If it's boring, means both players are doing what they're supposed to do. At that point, we've gone hold at that point six or seven consecutive turn holds. Which means...

Torrey Hawkins (19:21.568)
If it's boring then these book players are-

does sit at about six or seven consecutive triggers. Which means...

Alvin Owusu (19:32.492)
the guy who allows more variance is probably going to slip first.

Torrey Hawkins (19:32.665)
the guy who allows more variance is probably gonna slip first. And touche, it happened. It's TQC all over again. I'm gonna go back and answer your question because I think it's a little more, at least from my micro point of view. I know you're always looking a little more macro, which I appreciate that in your perspective. Alvin, let me tell you what I saw. I saw a player that played great tennis three matches earlier.

Alvin Owusu (19:40.173)
Exactly what happened.

Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (19:53.261)
out.

Alvin Owusu (19:57.038)
that's really great.

Torrey Hawkins (20:01.858)
And I saw a player that was not on the way down in the sense that he wasn't playing up. He wasn't playing poorly. He just wasn't playing up to his optimum level. There were points in that Rubalev match, Alvin, where Carlos looked like he had every answer. There were points in the Taylor Fritz match.

Alvin Owusu (20:10.446)
You are like, cool. He just wasn't planning on doing this.

Thank

Alvin Owusu (20:26.862)
where he had the answers and element and looked like he was being tailed.

Torrey Hawkins (20:26.913)
where he had the answers and Alvin, it looked like he was beating Taylor with his B game, which was a certain volley and coming forward. I felt like if you were to arrange your tennis and I've said this before on this podcast months ago, day one, awful, day seven, perfect. We rarely have day one and day seven. You're always in between two and six and your range being three to four, right? This day to day looked like day four.

Alvin Owusu (20:34.785)
I felt like if you were to rank your tents, I'm setting this for five desks, months ago, day one, awful, day seven, perfect, we rarely have day one, day seven, we're always in 22 and six, and you're ranking day three, right? This makes the day look like day four. And I'll take it back to day three, the more I can draw.

Torrey Hawkins (20:56.578)
And Alvin, in my opinion, it actually crept further in the day three, the more the match went on. And to my point about total quality control.

Alvin Owusu (21:02.958)
control quality control the micrometer and the inches of their position were seen today. He was in a swimming pool and that meant a misproper or a shot. A big point grip inside in or a fault in a sprayed line wall at a nowhere and because that

Torrey Hawkins (21:07.479)
the micrometers of variance between Yannick and the inches of variance between Carlos were seen today. He was in between three and four and that meant a miss dropper or a good shot, a big forehand rip, an inside in or an ace or double fault and a sprayed wide ball out of nowhere. And because that variance was so wide and quite frankly, so far in between of each other, he, Carlos did not have the ability to

Alvin Owusu (21:27.854)
Because that barrens was so violent and frankly so hard to treat each other, and Carlos did not have the ability to grow company on his own with the management. He orced progress, he had to pull off seven set holds, he had to go for more of the seven serves, yet it went from zero cases and the first two tests failed. And so what this, sorry, first step, first step, and what this now happens now is

Torrey Hawkins (21:37.515)
rely on his normal magic. He forced droppers. He had to pull out second set holds. He had to go for more on second serves. Yannick went from zero aces in the first two to seven. And so what this, sorry, and third set. And what this now happens now, Alvin, is something very sneaky. You're not able to rely on you, but you're hoping the other guy stays the same. Let me find my footing.

Alvin Owusu (21:59.433)
You're not able to rely on you, but your hope and every other day is the same. Let me find my footing. Let me have a good point, guys. I'm just able to find this. If I can construct your forward points, I will take a day three and a day four. A day four can be pretty games where I'm playing well, and I can release holes. And you're not playing much better. Unfortunately, yeah, I'm playing better. And I see that we're playing better in the third.

Torrey Hawkins (22:05.994)
Let me get some rhythm. Let me have a good point where I can just be able to find it. If I can construct three or four good points, I will take a day three and a day four. A day four can be pretty dangerous if I'm playing well and I can least hold and you're not playing much better. But unfortunately, Yannick was playing better and actually got to playing better in the third. And that to me is when the wheels fell off. Now Carlos starts to press. Now Carlos, there was a few games in the third set out of it.

Alvin Owusu (22:27.502)
And that's two years when it gets horrible. So now the troubles starts to press. Now the troubles, there was a few games in the second and the first round, if he didn't ace his way out of it, he'd have beat 6-1 and a good old canvas. And now he was completely disavowable to the troubles in the back of the hat. He did good keeping the competitors to watch, considering the day and considering how much that yet picked up the notch in the first

Torrey Hawkins (22:35.733)
If he didn't ace his way out of it, he'd have gotten beaten 6-1 in a few of those games. And that would have completely disemboweled Carlos in the max that he had. He did good to keep it as competitive as it was considering the day and considering how much that Yanuk picked it up a notch in the third and the fourth.

Alvin Owusu (22:54.254)
Yeah, so that's really good point because I felt like as we were watching it, we were talking about who was winning points in what ranges, You're 0-4, 5-8, 8+. And earlier in the match, Carlos was winning the longer points. seems like once they got into the extended baseline rallies, he was able to come up with the goods. But even with that being said, I never really felt like in those rallies was he

Torrey Hawkins (23:00.302)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (23:23.426)
dictating, he was improvising and coming up with some really interesting shots while on defense and turning defense into neutral neutral offense. But that's almost part of the superpower, right? Like his ability to steal from defensive positions. But then again, if given the chance, right? If given the chance, and that's the big one. But I think his preference would be to be the one in the middle of court dictating to the corners, right?

Torrey Hawkins (23:27.138)
Right, which he's known to do. 100%.

steal from defensive position. If given the chance, there's a key. But I think it's preferred would be to be one of the more titanium support, right? Which outside of his first serve, wasn't really creating a lot. He wasn't getting a lot of opportunities to do that. Right. Even when he was winning, he was not necessarily winning with any type of variety of ways. Yes.

Alvin Owusu (23:52.962)
which outside of his first serve, wasn't really creating a lot of, he wasn't getting a lot of opportunities to do that. But even when he was winning, he was not necessarily winning with any type of variety of ways to win points. It was...

Torrey Hawkins (24:09.31)
Which was why I felt like he started to press because what do you do? You go back to what you're doing well. What am I doing well? Well, it's like a picture on the mound, shaking off the catcher signal. Nope, ain't got that. Nope. Well, what you're doing well is your first serve. Yeah, your first serve. And let me double down on the first serve. And the reality of it was that was really the only thing that was really getting him some free points, you know, or at least giving him the look that he wanted. So, hey, first of all, let me say this, hats off to Yannick.

Alvin Owusu (24:12.238)
Right.

So

Torrey Hawkins (24:39.219)
center for playing a very, very solid match, a great tournament by the way. And I just felt like, let me give you my flip side of that Alvin. Three days ago, four days ago, I lose track of the exact number. We both saw Grigor Dimitrov who had him dead to rights, right? And I want to put this in context for the viewers and listeners and you all may agree or disagree with me. I've been teaching tennis and watching this for a long time. I've dealt with this range of a good players day one to day seven for a long time.

Alvin Owusu (25:03.214)
I've dealt with this range of a good player, a player that they've up for long time. And I've watched it for multiple trends, national, are 70, some of that's 80 day long, some grand science, 14 day long, and such. And there's just this great line of the variance over a week or a 14 day time frame, right? I say, I'm sorry, most tournaments, most players, over a three day period, right?

Torrey Hawkins (25:08.8)
And I've watched it from multiple tournaments from nationals, which are seven, sometimes eight days long to grand slams or 14 days long and such. And there's this, there's just this greater likelihood of variance over a week or a 14 day timeframe. Right. I say that to say most tournaments, most of us play are over a three day period. Right. Two matches on Saturday, two matches on Sunday, a match maybe on Monday. Right. It's what it is. You got six matches.

Alvin Owusu (25:32.006)
You're not going to play that as well as you might play.

Torrey Hawkins (25:38.465)
five matches, but you're playing over the course of a couple of days. When you now take that same thing, Alvin, or you stretch over a week, different story. You're not gonna play great every day. You stretched that now over two weeks. You're not gonna play that as well as you might've played. And the flip side of that is now you're probably not gonna play that great at all, never to get back to day seven, the rest of the event.

Alvin Owusu (25:56.238)
And thing is, I just don't feel free that we have all never taken back to Day 7 the rest of the event. Because both players work at Day 7 at different times. He just wants to Day 7. Go ahead and show us.

Torrey Hawkins (26:06.133)
Please, because I think this is important because both players were at day sevens at different times. Even if you want to say day six, go ahead with your thoughts.

Torrey Hawkins (26:18.273)
Right. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (26:24.832)
in what he was able to produce against Fognini, right? Less than stellar, right? Worked his way up to decent form against Rublev, right? And so that's the quarterfinals, which was Monday, I believe, or Sunday, last week's Sunday. It's last Sunday. Okay. In the same round, Grigor, so we agree, when we watched Carlos against Andre was top, to steal one of the aneurotics terms, top flight Carlos, right?

was the best of the hits right there. Best of. In the exact same round, sorry that was the round of 16. In the exact same round, center was down two sets below against Grigor. So let's... Yeah, so let's say this is first round of a 16 man tournament. One of our players skirts out. One player plays a match in his life.

Torrey Hawkins (26:54.195)
100 % 100 % best off for sure 16 yep Down and out down for the count two sets to none straight wasn't even close

Torrey Hawkins (27:15.777)
Okay, when one of our players starts out, okay, one player plays the match and flat. Exactly. And now we're, now we're, Senator Dahl in against David Finn. Senator against the probably the best sharpening test against Novak. And then it shows up great in polls. Now, Carlos goes against, goes from playing against Rublev, brings that same match against

Alvin Owusu (27:21.802)
Exactly. now we're center dials in against the Infibend. Center gets the probably the best sharpening test against Novak. And then shows up ready to roll. Now, Carlos goes against, goes from playing against Rublev. Brings that same magic against Norrie, but thing against Norrie is that Norrie had nothing to hurt him. So Carlos is at the more or less playing an exhibition match. Right?

Torrey Hawkins (27:43.668)
ignoring it. Right. Right. Yep. Right. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (27:49.932)
and then he goes to play against Taylor Fritz which is just a different style of match. is not the same style of match that he looks so good when he played against Rublev which Rublev is maybe in this instance the poor man's version of Center, right? Or the poor man's version of Djokovic. They are all baseline driven players who are going to be

Torrey Hawkins (28:10.25)
baseline driven and in Taylor's case had a phenomenal serve. It was really, it was really, if you look at it, you know, in some ways Alvin, very similar to Fognini, you know, in the sense that there's the slapper effect and he's gonna hit his shots. You don't ever feel threatened per se. And to me, that's where day four, five, six, six and a half, back to six, back to five, back to four, we're back to that level, maybe at best day five against Taylor Fritz.

Alvin Owusu (28:21.612)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (28:39.647)
And that, and mind you, Taylor Fritz had 25 aces, if I'm not mistaken, in that match, Alvin. So you're looking at, Taylor couldn't have played better, but even though it went, was it four sets? Even though it went four, it wasn't like it was a very contested four. It was just, knew Taylor was gonna hold 90 % of the time. But Taylor didn't ever threaten, threaten a lot from what I saw. To my point, there goes your sine and cosine wave. And now here comes, he comes in here back. He wasn't playing poorly.

Alvin Owusu (28:46.717)
4 cents

Alvin Owusu (29:01.432)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (29:09.713)
certainly nothing against Yannick, but he wasn't playing, as you say, top flight Carlos. And you look at the other, right? You now look at tangent, cotangent of my main man, Yannick, and Yannick went from playing pretty good, pretty solid, had a dip. And by the time he got past Gregor, his level went very, very solid. And Alvin, you heard it right here. He beat the breaks off of Novak. I mean, he absolutely played.

Alvin Owusu (29:31.758)
and how we were here, he was raised like a go-back. I he absolutely played pretty well as a tennis against a go-back going away. And it didn't look like he gave up much in the match today. that's what I say. And I know it's hard for some of us, but you have to understand, most of us might think that every player plays a certain way all the time. This is just some of the truth.

Torrey Hawkins (29:38.558)
pretty flawless tennis against Novak going away and then didn't look like he gave up much in the match today. So that's what I say. And I know it's hard for sometimes for the viewers to understand. Most viewers would like to think that every player plays a certain way all the time, which is just certainly just something not true. Everybody has some variance. Unfortunately, Yannick Sinners variance is pretty tight and he played poorly three days, four matches.

Alvin Owusu (29:57.614)
everybody has to play this. Unfortunately, Enix centers very strict times. And he played poorly three days or matches. You're actually four days ago, which I think I'll probably cover it up from you all played poorly after you played poorly. You all did play badly. So that's also true. You all played great after you played very well. You had a hard time coming out. And that's thing I want to a lot of part. Listen to this.

Torrey Hawkins (30:08.584)
three matches, four or five days ago, which I think allowed him to kind of rebound from that. You won't play poorly after you play poorly. You'll only play better. Flip side is also true. You won't play great after you play great. You'll start to come down. And that's the thing I want a lot. And a lot of our listeners, if you're good, tennis players, you know this to be true. There's just matches you play very well then. You just play great. You don't have much control over it. This is how you play. The flip side of that is, you're not gonna play much better.

Alvin Owusu (30:27.118)
you

Torrey Hawkins (30:37.555)
You know, really dial in that next match, because you're not gonna play much better. You won't, you can be sharp, you can win, but you're not gonna play it sharp. And flip side, you get through that bad match, you're only gonna play better. You won't play that bad again the next three or four days. So that's something that I think that the average watcher may not always understand. And for those of us that know competition, that know play, we know how good we play one day to the next, start to kind of track how well you're playing and then gauge your chances, your...

Alvin Owusu (30:51.982)
The average watcher may not always understand. And as I said, no competition, no play. We all have a good look at the next. So it's kind of strike, how would you play, then, in any store, chance of a store, your competition, your game plan, thing. Based on how you capture the pool, and take a lot of stock, you know, and try to go at it at the because you don't want get ready for the rest of party. And play it your way, nothing really bad at all, nobody said that. But...

Torrey Hawkins (31:05.842)
your competition, even your game style that day based on the fact of how well did I play before? And take a lot of stock if you're able to grind through a bad match, because you'll play great the rest of the tournament. And if you play pretty well, nothing to be mad at or be upset at, but you probably won't play as good. And so you're gonna have to kind of grind a little bit because that shot won't be there. That step up winner down the line, that drop shot for Carl Se, it won't be there as...

Alvin Owusu (31:21.998)
You've gone from a place group to a kind of runaway group and that shop won't be there. That's definitely not the one that's brought the shop group. It won't be there as part of that as you like.

Torrey Hawkins (31:32.934)
as automatic as you'd like for it to be. And it may have been the day before.

Torrey Hawkins (31:41.564)
Macro.

Torrey Hawkins (31:48.22)
One grand slam, together.

Alvin Owusu (31:51.82)
The center has won two Grand Slams, is obviously a post suspension, yada, yada, yada. So we've got, we're all in a hard court here for the rest of the season, Mostly indoor this, me, mostly outdoor the rest of the summer. And then following that, we'll go indoor in Asia and then we'll shut it down. How should we look at this matchup from a macro point? Like under what circumstances?

Torrey Hawkins (31:52.51)
Sure, Ozzie

Torrey Hawkins (32:03.484)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (32:12.615)
this matchup.

what circumstances.

Alvin Owusu (32:22.796)
down double, up double match point in the fourth set. Let's assume, let's live in a world in which Jannik did win that match. Three sets of one. Yeah. And then, and then very similar score to that three sets of one here in this match. Now obviously he did not win that first match. that is, that's the truth.

Torrey Hawkins (32:22.941)
down double, up double half point in the fourth set. In the French. Yep. Let's assume, let's, let's look at a world in which, you gotta deal with that match. Right. Right. For all, for all intents and purposes he should have, could have things being different would have.

Torrey Hawkins (32:45.457)
Yep. Right. The reality of it. Yep. Yep. Speak for itself.

Alvin Owusu (32:51.48)
champion, don't have to explain anything, right? That happened and we were all better off for it. What does the Carlos Alcaraz camp say or start to do as we transition to hardcore thinking about those two things? Like, yes, he won that friendship and match, but I'm sure Juan Carlos forever the first to say, would look at it from the same point of like, but he almost did.

Torrey Hawkins (32:58.301)
What does the Carlos Alvarez camp say or start to do as you transition to hard court thinking about those two things? Like, yes, he won that project in the match, but I'm sure Juan Carlos Herb, in of say, would look at it and say, what are like, what are y'all doing? If they finished that match in four, they'd have a four sets of tennis to look at and to do it, to make adjustments off of.

Alvin Owusu (33:17.806)
And so if we, if they finish that match in four, they have a four sets of tennis to look at and work with to make adjustments off of. So in the world of center versus Alvarez, right? Very similar to in the world of Federer versus Nadal. When we got to that point of once Nadal directly just took forehands to backhands religiously, right?

Torrey Hawkins (33:27.164)
in the world of center versus outgrass right very similar to in the world of better versus the doll yep to that point of once the doll directly just the forehands to backhands religiously right 100 of serve of serve to return in one match if i'm not mistaken yep

Alvin Owusu (33:46.668)
dominated that matchup for a while until later on Federer decides to step in and hit that backhand, take it up the line occasionally, did that thing start to turn a little bit. What is it that Jannik is doing to Carlos that Carlos needs to now start to adjust to? And it's hard to say that because Carlos has won five of the last six matches they played against each other, right? But always tight.

Torrey Hawkins (33:51.452)
100 %

Adjust to and what? Sure.

100%, 100%. Yep. Right. Is it now eight and five now, if I'm not mistaken, in the rivalry head to head? I think it was eight to four before and eight to five today. Here's, let me say this, and I love your term level set. Let's level set first before you make that. And let's draw this up to a couple of things. Number one, this is early phases of their careers. This is the Fed and Nadal late 2000s.

Alvin Owusu (34:16.162)
Always take.

Alvin Owusu (34:21.93)
It's close, yeah, something like that.

Good, good.

Alvin Owusu (34:37.262)
This is the Fed of late 2000s-ish. Not 2007, 2008, but also it is history.

Torrey Hawkins (34:43.068)
ish, not quite 2007, eight, nine, where Nadal starting to get his, his true foothold in the rivalry itself.

Alvin Owusu (34:51.416)
It was still, it was still service based at that point.

Torrey Hawkins (34:54.108)
100%. And to his credit, Sir Fed had the game on lockdown. I want to say in those three years, it was nine for 12 with the slams. The level set here is Carlos has been playing at such a high level that he has made everyone else catch up to him, like Fed was in the early 2000s. I feel like Carlos has now been caught. We now have a rivalry.

Alvin Owusu (35:07.458)
and play a special role that he has made.

Torrey Hawkins (35:22.852)
And I feel like at this point, not that we didn't have before, but we now have a true rivalry in the sense that now Carlos is now forced to adjust. If I am Juan Carlos and Camp, I am now thinking, okay, Carlos, we can't just improvise in the moment as much anymore. We can't just wheel and deal and just feel it and go off certain patterns, tactics, and trust your dropper. As much as all those are good plays from a given time, we now have to get a little more methodical.

Alvin Owusu (35:23.976)
point.

Alvin Owusu (35:31.086)
If I want to close and have time to deal the controls, we can't do that in the moment. We can't just do the deal and just feel like we go off certain tactics and trust the controller as much as the whole of the place, we have to put in time. We have to be a little more thoughtful in our pursuit of point construction and game management.

Torrey Hawkins (35:52.545)
in our pursuit of point construction and point and game management. We have to now make sure we have a couple of better first serve, first strike. We have to hit better targets on serve. We have to really make sure that some of our shots are not just the shots we want, but they're the shots the other player doesn't want. And this is gonna be a big learning curve for Carlos. Please.

Alvin Owusu (35:58.03)
We have to now make sure we have a little better service, right? We have to make sure that some of our shots, not just shots we want, but there's shots we want to play, because it doesn't. This is going to be a one. Oh, let me ask you there. I'm going to put this question to you right here. What shot is that for center? What shot does center not want? What is something that Carlos can expose then? He doesn't set a concrete offer.

Torrey Hawkins (36:17.595)
He did it several times today Alvin just didn't do it enough to really hurt him. The hard rip at body was a tough shot for center. The ball that goes back behind center on the forehand you take center wide hard cross court on the deuce and you take that next ball especially if center's trying to change direction you go back behind him.

Alvin Owusu (36:28.974)
hard grip at the top line was a tough shot for center. The ball that we were back on, that center on the forehand, you think center on what I hope across the court, think that's a ball, especially if center is out of shape, we're going go back behind him. Ironically, not even talking about the that's right, it's that ball back part. We don't think that's a good ball, we hit our best ball, we're going to go away, like we're supposed to. But, slash, not everybody does it. I felt like that's a play that when you go back on line.

Torrey Hawkins (36:42.733)
Ironically, not a good shot for most of us, right? It's that ball back hard. We don't think anybody will do it. We hit our best ball, you're gonna go to our weakness, right? You're supposed to. But newsflash, not everybody does that. And I felt like that's a play that when you go back behind someone to their best shot, they're just not expecting it because why would you do that? It's my best shot. But that's also because it it a weakness.

Alvin Owusu (36:57.998)
someone to their best shot. They're just not expecting it. They're probably shooting for that shot. But that's also pretty nice to me. More efficient. He went back and back and back all day long. Like, why would not? And that's one thing that I expected. So I to say, that's a shit I think almost who have you ever asked. I think almost we have to set up and draw for it. We don't want to go to it and pull out on it. The draw for shit. For you all, for the very

Torrey Hawkins (37:05.165)
Marty Fish did it for years. He went back behind you backhand all day long. Like, why would not, you know? And that's the one shot you're not expecting. So I say it to say, that's a play that I Carlos is going to have to get better at. I think Carlos is going to have to set up the dropper a bit more, not be so quick to go to it and rely on it. The dropper should be more of a, of a throw you off play, a, a, variable, not the play itself.

Alvin Owusu (37:28.672)
Executing that's

Torrey Hawkins (37:29.378)
And I feel like he's gonna have to get a lot better with the serve volley and get that first volley because as you saw in some of his first points, he's not a great passer per se if the volley is going away from him as well as he moves. He's not a great passer because he hugs the baseline so much, the volley goes past him a bit. So those are two plays right there that he's gonna have to get better at. He, Janek, to cover and Carlos has to get better executing. The third part is,

Carlos will have to get a better first serve percentage on his off days. He simply has to know when he's not serving great, the slice body worked well from the day, the flat body worked well from the day. Unfortunately, it worked well for Yanuk too, but he, Carlos has to get better non-risky first serves. He did not kick out wide enough to meet Alvin on the ad. His slice out wide was pretty good most times he hit it. And when he caught it, it was an ace or a service winner.

Alvin Owusu (37:58.542)
Carlos will have to get a better first serve percentage on his off base. He simply has to know that he's not certainly great. A sliced body would walk in today, a flat body would roll in today, of course a roll would roll in for But he, Carlos, has to get a non-risky first serves. He's a kid from the White House, he's a kid out of the town. His sliced body has to be pretty good.

Right

Torrey Hawkins (38:28.644)
But it seemed like to me, kept going for the flat out wide way too often, missed about 60 % of it, only made 40%. And if he makes it, it's still going to Yanuk's backhand. The kick out wide, especially the really sharp kick, really wide, would have pulled him out wide enough to really make a difference. I don't think he has that serve just yet. And I don't think he really hit it as well as he could have to really pull Yanuk off the court. And Yanuk made him pay for it.

Alvin Owusu (38:55.872)
I'll push on that one a little bit because I think it's reflection of the execution point that you made earlier. I'd notice, and this is, I hate to be too prescriptive around what we just saw because this is a flash in time. This is one match. It is one match. But I think the one thing that you can probably take from it is,

Torrey Hawkins (39:03.578)
I and this is, I hate to be too prescriptive around what we just.

Torrey Hawkins (39:11.866)
100%. Snapshot in time. 100%.

Torrey Hawkins (39:18.052)
from it.

Alvin Owusu (39:20.556)
The drop shots that we saw as plays seem to be a reflection of pressing a bit. Which also comes back to your point about constructing points off of first serves made. It didn't seem like Carlos really felt comfortable with hit first serve and ball comes back, ball one goes here. Because a lot of players, if he's making that first serve, the return quality is not as good.

Torrey Hawkins (39:20.762)
The drop shots that we saw as plays seem to be a reflection of pressing the pin. 100%. Which also comes back to your point about constructing points off of first serves. Yes. It didn't seem like Carlos really felt comfortable with hit first serve in, comes back, ball one comes here. Yep. Because a lot of players, if he's making that first serve, the return quality is not as good. Right.

Alvin Owusu (39:50.41)
it's it's Yannick's return quality off of the first serve and this is something that Taylor mentioned as well in the in his post match against Carlos was that his he needed to go bigger off of the first serve return try to put Carlos in a more compromised position on ball one Taylor was trying to bunt too much trying to get back to neutral and Carlos was thrown early.

Torrey Hawkins (39:50.522)
it's Yannick's return quality off of the first serve. This is something that Taylor mentioned as well in his post match with Carlos, that his needed to go bigger off of the first serve first. Right. And try to put Carlos in a more commonized position on ball one. Right. was trying to bump too much, trying to get back to mutual. Right, buying time with the bump, bump deep, and only realizing while it's buying him time, it's also buying Carlos more time to set up said shot. 100%.

Alvin Owusu (40:16.82)
Or Carlos coming flying in as well, like and now you're drop volley first. That's a different story, right? So, but now you go against Center, whose first serve return quality is, he has usurped Novak as the best returner in the game right now. And that is something, I think that's where Carlos starts to feel like he's under pressure a lot. Pressure to, to your point, execute where that is not his, his forte is dazzle, not.

Torrey Hawkins (40:21.529)
to put that you go and consider, whose first serve return quality is, and he has used serve Novak as the best returner in the game right now. And that is something, I think that's where Carlos has the pressure. Pressure to execute. Where that is not his. Not his forte, let's be honest. His forte is cattle. Right. Not a four day athlete. Right, right. And just old standard serve plus one.

Alvin Owusu (40:46.136)
boring ass execution.

Circle swap.

Torrey Hawkins (40:50.905)
And I feel like Alvin, as I say, and if you combine the two points, not his best day and TQC on Yanuk's side, both ramping up and you got a day four versus a day six on the other side of the net and you have a TQC of 0.125 and a TQC of plus three, right? You just started to see the difference in the two. Make no mistake. If Carlos is having a day six and Yanuk's having a day six,

Alvin Owusu (40:57.025)
and keep your feet on the outside.

Alvin Owusu (41:05.934)
you have a T-sphere point on to the bottom and a T-sphere plus three, right? You've just far seen the difference in two. on a state, if Carmel's having a day space and Yannis having a day space, you get critical by a lot of people. Unreal tennis. And Carmel's may just have exactly that. If we get a day in T-class, a day space, and you have a day space, well that's...

Torrey Hawkins (41:21.241)
you get French Open final, you get unreal tennis and Carlos may just edge that match out. If you get day, anything less than day six and the other guy's at day six, well, that's gonna favor TQC. So I just wanted to make sure of making the point that I don't think Carlos forced or pressed because he wanted to, Carlos pressed and forced because he felt he had to, to be relevant. And I just want to make sure, and to your point, 50%, maybe 55, was Yanuk induced.

Alvin Owusu (41:33.198)
I just want to make sure we're making the right decision. I don't think Carl was important. I think he wanted to. Carl was not important enough. have to. He wanted to be relevant. just want to make sure. And he's your wife. 50 % of the time, Carl was the only one who was And the other 45 % was introduced because he wasn't. There were some doctors out there who missed. And he had no one to talk to. But he did explain it.

Torrey Hawkins (41:51.296)
and the other 45 to 50 % was induced because he wasn't hitting the ball. There were some droppers out that he missed. If he hit it, that would have been a clean cut winner, but he missed them in the net. Carlos almost never misses drop shots. That's how it first clued into me like, huh, he's off today. He hit some droppers that were well set up, well disguised. He missed, I think a couple of one game. He missed two within the span of about a game and a half. And I'm like, wow. And I remember one play, we talked about it.

he should have gotten on the stick volley and he waited to try to set up his drop volley. He played a drop volley, but he gave it away in the process. And I remember thinking to myself, he is so rattled right now that he can't make his drop volley, but he's spending points to get it back online. About a game later, he nailed a perfect drop shot, but unfortunately it just showed me that's a true play in his arsenal. That's not a, that's not a, I'm gonna say, that's not a.

Alvin Owusu (42:29.582)
He is so proud of Frank Love that he can't make it to the top following you. That he's spending points to get a knock on the line. A game better. He got a curtain. Don't shut it. But of course, he just told me that's a true play against Arsenal. That's not a, that's not a, that's not an extra, an alternative. That's a play. And when that play wasn't working, he was going to force Nick out of that movement and he doesn't get that point.

Torrey Hawkins (42:49.364)
an extra, an alternative, that's a play. And when that play wasn't working, he was going to force to make that play. No different than does an inside and forehand, no different than it is a step up ball down the line. That's one of his go-to plays. And when he felt like he didn't have that, he felt a little, he felt like he didn't have a sword. You know what I mean? me, it's what I saw.

Alvin Owusu (42:58.542)
No, that is a step forward. That's one is going to place. I felt like he have that. He felt like it. But even going back to your point about the the day three to day six, you know, fluctuations, of course, it also happens within a match and it happens. I yeah, it happens. Yeah. And again, back to your back to the point about variance there, though, it doesn't.

Torrey Hawkins (43:11.64)
the day three to day six, know, fluctuation. Right, fluctuation, great word. It also happens with a match. Oh, for sure. happens the most in a match. Especially three out of five. Yeah, they, again.

Alvin Owusu (43:27.458)
seemed to happen very much to Yannick within matches. His level is kind of the level. whereas, like, against Dimitrov, he never really got past day three level, right? But against Carlos, he was kind of floating between day five and day six pretty much the entire match. I will say, between game once down to four in the first set all the way to the end of that set, Carlos hit...

Torrey Hawkins (43:27.671)
seemed to happen very much to Yannick within matches. His level was kind of a level. Whereas against Vindrashal, he never really got past day three level. But against Carlos, he was kind of floating between day five and day six pretty much the entire match. I will say, between game once down the first set all the way to the end of that set, Carlos had...

Alvin Owusu (43:55.736)
day 67 tennis for a minute there and then maybe down to day four but then Yanuk never really wavered.

Torrey Hawkins (43:55.863)
Day 67, for a minute there. then, maybe they down to day four, but then, Yonah never went away from I would tell you he capitalized on some bigger serves. I would say he sniffed at the high end of day four. The only reason I can't give him day five, day six status Alvin is he had so many double faults. He had so many missed returns. He had so many backward plays after a forward play.

Alvin Owusu (44:24.238)
But not in that period though. In those six games, he was amazing. He was Rubell-esque, if you will.

Torrey Hawkins (44:26.351)
In that period, in that I would, I would say he played more Carlos S for sure. But you take the game in my opinion, you take the game at its totality and there was just a lot of mistakes and I felt those mistakes evened out. That's what I saw. I get your point. I know what you mean for that span, but you take it in the totality of it. In my opinion, they were makeups for the earlier Mrs. Is what I saw.

Alvin Owusu (44:51.534)
They were.

Yeah, and he's he's he's a, to use, to use the, oh, the kids say, the kids say vibe, vibe player. He's a vibe player. Like he, he's definitely rolls off of rhythm. And there was a, there was a time in the match where there was like, it's very rhythmless. The crowd not really, less than engaged, but the match got standard. Rally's got shorter, which does not favor. Yes. Right. Exactly.

Torrey Hawkins (44:57.077)
Various freaky player at times.

Right. 100%. Yep. Yeah. Right. Right. More routine, which favors TQC. You know? Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (45:23.938)
And then it was at about, I think in the fourth set, Yannick was serving 4-3, finally got that break, and Carlos was up double break point. And you could see it on his face, it's like, wait a minute, wait a we got a chance here. We got a chance here. And I was like, I don't think so, that's the kind of, that's definitely where we were when he hit the door open for jumping, right? But it did not happen today.

Torrey Hawkins (45:26.836)
Yeah

Alvin Owusu (45:52.078)
He was able to calm his nerves, fight off those root points.

Torrey Hawkins (45:56.796)
Yannick said, you're gonna learn today. And that's what happened. again, Alvin, cannot, I know we wanna maybe say we owe it to the women at some point, which are certainly worth giving their due with Eega. I cannot say enough about Yannick's just impervious way of attacking the game and attacking opponents where that, I'm gonna...

Alvin Owusu (46:16.238)
in

This is I can teach.

Torrey Hawkins (46:26.071)
We're gonna hashtag TQC for my purposes today. But that's how he trains, Alvin. That's how he practices. He's going for the micrometers of execution. He's not going for the razzle dazzle. He's not going for the flashy. He's going for the standard. He's going for the repeatable. He's going for the most likely. And how can I make the most likely happen the most often? And there's a certain amount of precision, a surgical amount of precision that he brings to the game.

Alvin Owusu (46:52.526)
you

Torrey Hawkins (46:54.986)
that you who play him, and I think Novak saw this the other day, you just have to be ready for a person who's playing that level of precision. Most people don't necessarily plan on playing, you know, for that length of time, nor are they capable of playing for that much of time. You almost always expect for a loose game. I used to always tell my juniors, there'll be a loose game in there. He's a big server, but there'll be a loose game in there. He'll have one game, he'll only make two or three first serves. That's the game you wanna lean on.

Alvin Owusu (46:58.072)
just have to be ready for a person who's playing that level of precision. Most people don't necessarily plan on

Alvin Owusu (47:15.382)
Yes. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (47:24.5)
make all returns, get in that game, could happen early, could happen late. You don't know. Play for that loose game. Get the break, hold serve, you're good to go. He's not a great returner, right? I can almost hear myself coaching players through the situation. He doesn't take returns off and he doesn't take serves off. So where's your loose game coming from? He may have a loose point. You may have a great point, but you're not out of the woods. There's no loose game. There's no loose, there's few loose points. So at the end of the day, what you're really looking at is a player that has

Alvin Owusu (47:45.034)
today was Disco Loose Game.

Torrey Hawkins (47:53.526)
in a sense found the way to have a force field in a sense around his vulnerabilities. He didn't have a bad back. He has a great forehand. He has a good backhand. Everything is 8.59. There's no 10 plus, but there's no sub eights. Everything is pretty good. Just saying. I don't think Carlos, there was a stat at one point where Yannick had lost one, Yannick had lost one point in the last four or five service games.

Alvin Owusu (48:08.67)
Did Carlos break him in sets 2-4?

Torrey Hawkins (48:23.453)
Not only do I think he didn't break him, he did not do any damage in those service games.

Alvin Owusu (48:25.286)
He is probably not until that three four that three four game in the fourth set Carlos did yeah Yeah, I am I'm very impressed with obviously with the air

Torrey Hawkins (48:31.8)
We were at 1540, which he lost by the way. Which he lost that 1540 game, am I that? Carlos did, to my point. Even when he was up, double break. saying. I'm very impressed. Can't help but be. The way he was able to adapt.

Alvin Owusu (48:51.624)
like the way, the way he's been able to adapt what he does well to the grass, against Carlos to really put him in, in various situations. it's, would not be my gut is like, okay, you get to hardcore. You have a little more time and Carlos, you know, gets a little more space to do more Carlos things, but also, I mean, Yannick's won the last three hardcore great slams. So like, who am I to say that?

Torrey Hawkins (48:58.793)
to.

against Carlos to really put him in various situations. My gut is like, okay, he hit the hard part, he had a little more time and Carlos gets a little more space to do what Carlos did. also, mean, he's one of last three on Slam, so who would like to say that, that he had to do that half? Carlos had to the same final on the Grand Slam since he won the US Open, like, years ago.

Alvin Owusu (49:21.422)
That's even that matches even gonna happen. Carlos hasn't made the semi-final of a Harvard Grand Slam since he won the US Open like years ago. Someone's that champion on that one, because that might not be right. But I think it's right. I think it's right off the top of my head. But I don't feel necessarily much different about either player. think obviously everyone knows that Carlos serve is a place to...

Torrey Hawkins (49:31.156)
Yeah, so it's actually pretty accurate. Pretty accurate.

Torrey Hawkins (49:38.901)
So, but I don't feel necessarily much different about either No, no. Obviously, everyone that Carlos serves in the place to improve. Improve, for sure. He started from 28th in a match in Wimbledon here that showed obvious improvement. Huge improvement, huge improvement. And he was in yet another final.

Alvin Owusu (49:50.794)
improve and that is next like I mean he starts dropping 20 aces in a per match in great in Wimbledon here that shows you obvious improvement he served fantastically

Torrey Hawkins (50:06.325)
If this was his bad day, Alvin, if I'm his team, when I step back from it, I'm feeling pretty good about what we've done developmentally. If this was his bad match and we just have to work on him peaking a little later in Grand Slams, so be it. He did play a long clay season. He did play a long French, right? And we gotta keep in mind, he's played probably 30 % give or take more matches than Yannick did through that 90 day period, right? So there's a lot of still a little bit of wear and tear, but.

Alvin Owusu (50:21.314)
This is

Torrey Hawkins (50:33.68)
again, we're back in the final. So this is a rivalry, Alvin. This to me supersedes what we see on Xs and Os and Ones and Twos and whatever stats AI can give us. This is a rivalry and both players, think if anybody, Mr. Intrinsic himself, Mr. Innate saw this when he mentioned it in the post game of the French. I'm not just gonna keep beating him. He's gonna beat me one day. And I think that's his own understanding of

Alvin Owusu (50:50.35)
Mr. President himself, Mr. Nate, saw this, he mentioned that came up with the president. He, unless he can... Right, yeah, he did say that. Carlos did say that. That's his own understanding of how to have to do his job and how to achieve it. That, yeah, I'm not going to be just a poor man in a hospital every time. That's his problem. I would like say that instead of yourself, you should be yourself.

Torrey Hawkins (51:02.548)
how tactically solid and how, take you see, that Yannick is, I'm not gonna be able to pull off the impossible every time. And I think that's what we saw today. I would even dare say that what he said to himself, he was listening to himself during said match because it felt like he kinda sensed that. Having said that part though, don't think for a second that Carlos isn't pissed that he lost that one today, that he won't come back and be more fired up.

Alvin Owusu (51:21.086)
AYYYY

Torrey Hawkins (51:31.764)
because on his best day, Carlos is a bit better. Now let's see if he can do what it takes to now improve the rivalry. Alvin, I wanna go back just briefly and go macro. I'll tell still one of your lines. Macro, do you remember the years in the early, you may not, I'm a little older than you, 70s, 80s when Chris and Martina were going back and forth? There was some levels there and I'll help you out for history purposes. Martina had come back in the...

Alvin Owusu (51:50.158)
I absolutely do not. was born in the U.S.

Torrey Hawkins (51:59.239)
Martina always had good hands and of course being lefty, she had the slice, she had the role, she had some change ups and Chris just had better ground stroke. She was just better. Martina came out early eighties, fit as a fiddle, most fit player in the women's tour, started serving volley and started bringing the game, an all-core game coming forward and Chris couldn't handle it. You know what happened in mid, mid late eighties? Guess who started serving volley? Guess who started coming forward more? Chris.

Alvin Owusu (52:18.317)
Yeah

Torrey Hawkins (52:26.259)
out of missed groundstrokes herself starts coming forward and you're always like, I didn't know she could even volley. She had great volleys. And guess who started staying back more and playing more solid, playing longer points, Martina. The two players became so good, they started in a sense mirroring each other's best tactics. I fast forward to Pete Sampson and Andre Agassi, who played some classic matches in the nineties and early two thousands, right? You saw the same thing. Pete went from coming in all the time to stand back, hit that running forehand.

Alvin Owusu (52:46.558)
Yeah

Torrey Hawkins (52:54.963)
actually started coming forward more and hitting the swing and volley. And in some matches he'd play the punisher role and would keep you back. But in other matches he would come forward and bring it to you a little bit more. You knew both players had, in a sense, like avatars, had matched the other players, you know, a gift, right? But now we're in that same level. We, of course, can't leave out the great Roger Federer and Nadal, who both helped each other, you know, ramp up that level.

Alvin Owusu (53:16.014)
the

Torrey Hawkins (53:21.347)
And you mentioned that fateful match when Roddick, when Fed finally came over the top of the backhand, he even got a coach to help him come over the backhand more with Ivan Ljubicic.

Torrey Hawkins (53:36.671)
First serve and forehand. my God. And now he might be one of the most accomplished volleyball players on the men's tour. I say it to say, overall, things start making you change and start making you get the other side of what you didn't have. And that's what rivalries do. They make you dig deeper. You're not playing for everybody else. You're playing to beat that player who you know you will end up playing. This is NBA, this is NHL, this is MLB, this is tennis.

Alvin Owusu (53:43.502)
saying, overall, things are making a change. It's making a difference out of what you have. And that's what Proudly is doing. If you're a play for an audience, you're playing to beat that play, who you know, you will end up playing. This is an Excel, this is an MLB, is a test, right? When legless selves were going back and forth, then you had Proudly beat, they had a piece of God.

Torrey Hawkins (54:04.698)
Right? Remember those years where, when Lakers and Celtics were going back and forth and then Detroit had to find a way to beat, they had to beat Chicago. And then you had years, those years where, where the Spurs had, they were putting players together, even in free agency to beat them in the playoffs. They weren't worried about the regular season. They're worried about that matchup and they had players they knew who matched up against that player very well. That's what we're getting into now with tennis, which is in my opinion, the ultimate game, because now that player has to.

Alvin Owusu (54:13.326)
your volunteers were dispersed, had they were putting players together, even a creative team, to beat them in playoffs. They weren't worried about the playoffs. They were worried about that matchup. And they had players, they knew who actually gets not play very well. That's what we need to now. can't just give up on that. They'll take it to the top, play as to the matchup. Not enough for every add to that situation. So I would feel good about this. It's rather healthy.

Torrey Hawkins (54:34.13)
the tactics, not another player being added to that situation. So I really feel good about this rivalry. It's healthy. Had Carlos ran away with it a little bit. felt like it may have even made it, I'm not going to say boring, it would have made it a little bit easier. He may have rested a little bit. has, Yannick has forced Carlos to have his full attention now on what I need to do to get better. I'm looking forward to the hard court season. Looking forward to it because now Carlos comes in saying, okay, I knew you'd beat me one day.

Alvin Owusu (54:41.87)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (55:03.826)
It has now happened. Guess what? I'm going to attack this even more because I enjoy winning too much. I enjoy being successful when I do too much. And we're about to be blessed with a magical run. I think in the next several slams, my only concern, Alvin, the rest of the tour may not be ready. The rest of the tour may not be ready for the boosters these guys about to put on tennis in the next several. Go ahead.

Alvin Owusu (55:10.926)
I enjoy being successful at a due too much and we're about to be blessed with a magical front at the end the 7th round. My only concern now is the rest of the tournament after the game. Right. want to go back to your point. With the boosters these guys left on. Yeah, I want to go back to your point about the players pulling the best out of each other and forcing evolution. I think we need to look at it from a standpoint of

Torrey Hawkins (55:36.459)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (55:41.134)
how long these guys have been playing tennis. They're not that old. They're just like 23, right? From a, when you start thinking about players, junior players, even at the highest level, it's very, oftentimes players are good in the 12th, and they're good in the 14th, and then puberty hits, you start to see some shifting in the 16th and the 18th. We're only talking about six years. That's a six year space, right? You look at 18 to 22, 23, as another,

Torrey Hawkins (55:43.961)
Right. they start to fade.

Sure.

Sure sure Very pivotal very pivotal five six years Sure sure Peak right right right

Alvin Owusu (56:11.214)
space where people started to get used to their athletic abilities, right? And then now you start to look, still far away from the, remember 26 to 28 is the peak. So we have a lot left to see from the does Yannick need to get better coming forward and finishing points off the net? Absolutely. Does Carlos need to get a little more, a little sharper, a little more

Torrey Hawkins (56:27.665)
100 % Right, right

a little sharper, a little more, lower his variance. That's probably where it is against Yannick. I don't know if put it that way. A little bit sharper on the return. The person returning, he really pull out the pressure on the center on the, start of the game for the better part of that match. there are room, there's room for improvement, but there's always been room for improvement.

Alvin Owusu (56:38.99)
lower his variance, that's probably where his... against Yannick, put it that way. A little bit sharper on the return, on first-round return, right? He didn't really put a lot of pressure on Sinner on his service games for the better part of that match. So there's room for improvement, but there's always been room for improvement for every superstar, for every...

Torrey Hawkins (57:00.945)
100%. But now on the losing end, you see it more. It's come home, right? And now you are now left to deal with it. And I like that Carlos, I think if anybody's more innate with that understanding, it's him. He sees it, he knew it. He knew it then. He now got burned by it. And now he's like, okay, now I got to address it. And we're only gonna see him continue to improve. I was actually very impressed

Alvin Owusu (57:25.678)
you

Torrey Hawkins (57:30.711)
on the flip side of that with Yannick being able to match and adjust. He served as well as he's ever served, Alvin. He served as well as he's ever served in a match to this level. He didn't serve great against Novak, served okay, held serve well, but he served bigger today at times than he's ever served. And for that matter, I felt like really, when's the last time you seen Yannick hold serve three, four sets in a row? You know, with-

Alvin Owusu (57:32.088)
yet to match my job. He served as as he ever served. He served as well as he ever served. And I'm attached to this model. It's so good. So it helps a lot. But he's served bigger today than he's ever served. And that's how works.

I've seen again, hold third, three, four steps in a row. know, very, long line. And so that's being told to the deans that he was locked in on these traffic counts today. So again, the rivalry is that it's very healthy. It's very good. But I still say my only concern is the rest of the tour because we've already talked about this.

Torrey Hawkins (57:59.504)
Very few double faults I might add. You know what I mean? And so that to me told me that he was locked in on what he was trying to accomplish today. So again, the rivalry is very healthy. It's gonna be a good one. I still say my only concern is the rest of the tour because we've already talked with this offline. Three, four and five may or may not be ready. I'm just gonna say may not be ready. And you know eight through 16 ain't ready to handle what they got to do. It's not to these guys can't lose on a given day.

Alvin Owusu (58:17.742)
345 they are not be ready. I'm just gonna say not be ready and you know April 16th. You know to handle a box to do it's not just asking who's gonna get a day. It's out on Carlos. Let's get all my dad.

Torrey Hawkins (58:29.439)
If Alvin, if I'm Carlos and I'm playing at a, let's just say a 17 UTR level, my bad day, my two day can still get beat by anybody, right? That's top 10 in the world. But the chance of me having a two day, pretty rare. And the chance you have in a six day, when I have my two day, is even more rare. And that's the key. And that's what we're looking at. They're only gonna keep taking this thing up a notch. And as each of them plays their way into these tournaments and kind of really realize this,

Alvin Owusu (58:39.278)
That's what we're talking about.

Torrey Hawkins (58:57.871)
It's gonna only be some better tennis. And we were just blessed enough in the early 2000s through 20 teens with Roger Rafa and of course Novak. And now we're seeing it again. You're rarely blessed with this much greatness, this close together. And I feel like that's what I wanna see. And I really hope people don't start saying, oh, I'm kind of tired of seeing Carlos and Yannick in the final. Buddy, you're witnessing history. You're witnessing the best. It's like saying, I'm tired of seeing that Lambeau and that Ferrari.

Alvin Owusu (59:08.238)
You're very blessed with this much greatness, this close together. I like that's what I see. I feel like people gonna start saying, I'm low on cash, I'm of being a carl, I'm gonna have to go to final, but you're gonna see it, you're gonna see it at the best. It's like saying, I'm tired of seeing how you have to live your life for

Torrey Hawkins (59:26.755)
Buddy, that's two of the best. You gotta appreciate what you see. You're in the presence of excellence right here. You know what mean?

Alvin Owusu (59:27.701)
That's true. I was texting with a buddy this morning before the final and he's like, you know, and we used to use the former roommate of mine. We watched a lot of tennis matches together, especially in the Federer and Doll days. And I was a Federer fan or matches against the Doll, like really put me through the rigger, right? Like really put me through the rigger. And I was watching

Torrey Hawkins (59:44.975)
I'm a better fan.

Torrey Hawkins (59:51.3)
Well, for sure. Yeah. Almost rooting against rooting against rooting for the opponent so they could help help help fans pack. Right.

Alvin Owusu (59:54.528)
semi-finals and other matches through the lens of can other people keep keeping it all away from from getting to Federer or breaking Federer's record right? exactly it was was like it was like that in those days and I think you know fast forward many years forward now I view this rivalry when I am unapologetic I if I you have to

Torrey Hawkins (01:00:17.655)
He was was pre vision he was Jarvis

Alvin Owusu (01:00:21.518)
I had to pick one versus the other. I'm I would say I'm a Carl's Outrest fan. His game is something that speaks to me in a way that very similar to the way that Federer's game spoke to me, but I also appreciate how Novak broke tennis, like plays perfect tennis, right? Yeah, like, Senator Daniel plays perfect tennis.

Right. but in situations like this, where we are now in life, I find myself just rooting for this to happen. I told my buddy this morning, I like, honestly don't care who wins this match. I'm just so glad that it's happening because anything besides this match, short of maybe Novak versus Carlos would be just a disappointment. It would be almost a waste of a grand slam final. I don't want to see any these other contestants.

Torrey Hawkins (01:00:46.703)
just rooting for this. Right. I told my buddy, I honestly don't care if moves this back. I'm just so glad that it's happening. Right. of maybe Novak versus Carlos would be just disappointment. Right. It would be almost a waste of a chance. Right. Right. Tennis, there's the players you root for, there's the players that are the top.

And then there's tennis at its highest level. We are blessed at this point right here to have all three be two players at the highest level who are at the pushing the boundary of what the game can be. And they are now in iteration, well, we'll be number eight, I guess, of their Grand Slam, what could be their Grand Slam reunion here coming up with the US Open. And it's not to push everybody else aside. That's not the point. It's to see.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:27.246)
and it will be number eight.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:42.158)
What other chainsawing armor can be other players exposed that the top player can take a notice and expose all the way? What else? How closely can the rest of the 3-8 and 9-16 track to keep it competitive? So what if they do ultimately, as you know, counter the fire away?

Torrey Hawkins (01:01:43.031)
What other chinks in the armor can the other players expose that the top player can take a note of and expose all the way? What else, how closely can the rest of three through eight and nine through 16 track to keep it competitive? So when they do ultimately, and as you know, Alvin, counter, find a way, A champion can always find a way, whoever that new champion is. What can they do to overtake?

Alvin Owusu (01:02:06.254)
What can they do to overtake? What can they do to, by the way, those players are not working. They're not working. They're not teaming up with group. yeah, have that response. And how can they continue to stay open, stay close, and just focus on the past?

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:11.766)
What can they do in the window they have to find a way? Those players aren't, they're not not working on the game. They're not not practicing. They're not not improving. So the other guys have that much more to improve on and how can they continue to stay relevant, stay close and just hope to stay in the pack so to speak and be a stone's throw away from that match that's inevitable. Now at this point that you're gonna run into one or two, right?

Alvin Owusu (01:02:30.432)
And

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:39.002)
along the way. And that to me is what I'm looking forward to in the US Open, this whole hardcore series coming up. But also when they do face each other and it's like they'll face each other again, what will they do? What will they do and treat us to next time in the next, you know, as I say, iteration, the next episode, Dr. Dre style to show us what tennis, what is still left to expose, exploit.

Alvin Owusu (01:03:01.07)
to show us what tennis was so like.

to expose or execute in that next level of that next series.

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:08.648)
know, execute, right? In that next level of that next experience. That's what I'm looking forward to.

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:32.654)
100 % 100 % We never know we never know but but it's but it's fairly likely given the situation And that's yep

Alvin Owusu (01:03:35.52)
check in on it you know you say they're gonna play again we hope you never know but I like to yeah I like to not take any I just live in a don't take any of this for granted out of space right so let that let that grow but you know we're gonna we'll take a break here in a second and then we'll talk about the women's final and similar to how and a snowman and so you got tech first time playing for tour which is in there the same age 25 26 years old whatever it is that'll doesn't matter there are other

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:51.839)
Right. Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:04.206)
players, when we talk about who's coming up to challenge these guys. Like we're not quite sure that anyone can really consistently challenge them right now. We talked about it before. There are players that neither Jannik nor Carlos have played before, like your Fonseca and your Mn6, right? Feast has been able to, you know,

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:21.741)
Neither Yannick nor Carlos have played before. I like your concepts and your sentences. He is still on the upper trajectory. has some resistance. You said you're not as cozy or iron-mol like in person when I say his name. That's great. As often as you want to see it, Alvina.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:31.566)
He is still on the upper trajectory and has recently been able to give Carlos some resistance. Musetti, you're not, God, it's cool to see your eye roll in person when I say his name. That's great. But has- You want to see it out loud. Yeah, but he's young enough and capable enough to pose some problems.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:51.917)
Yes.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:57.725)
I will agree with you on Young Enough.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:00.174)
Okay. but then someone like, yeah, I mean, there are players that are young enough who still have some room without the scar tissue to, to say I can improve. I can see what the, the operational amount of improvement is, and I still have time to get there. My, my growth plates have not fused quite yet. so.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:05.805)
There are players that are young enough who still have some room without the scar tissue to say, can improve. I can see what the up-rash on improvement is, and I still have time to get there. My growth plates have not fused quite yet. That gives me some excitement, because the rest of them that are just 25 and 28, yeah, I don't know how many.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:27.214)
gives me some excitement because the rest of them that are ages 20, 25 to 28, yeah, don't, I'm sorry. Yeah, I did give my props to Taylor Fritz in our last episode. do think on this surface. can, he that's his, he is the- He's the best top four fastball player in hot air right now. Yes, yes. I'll give him a chance here. Any given, in the next three years, he has a chance here. He does, he does. Okay, do we feel good?

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:37.58)
Yep. Oh, you said the best, best top four grass court player in our era right now. 100%. Be on a shot of Adele. Yep. 100%. Everyone else distant fifth and out. And in my opinion, unfortunately, I wish there was a better clay quarter.

Shout out to Caspar Rood, who's obviously very, accomplished on the clay. Unfortunately lost first, second round of the French and so on. There's others that contest on each surface, but I feel like as a, as, as a body, I feel like many of them in the entire year, there isn't, that player isn't the same at spot number five or spot number six or seven that can contest or push or defeat on a given time.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:10.51)
There's other factors to have on experience, but I feel like as a...

Alvin Owusu (01:06:23.073)
is the same.

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:32.264)
And that's what made the Grigor match so interesting was that you saw Grigor not just be ahead, but he was dominating for a certain point and showed some different things. If you go back and look at the tape, if I'm team Alcara's, I'm gonna go back to that tape and see, how was he getting Yanuk in such bad spots? The slice was a big deal, serving the certain spots was a big deal and start to really see how was he making him uncomfortable.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:34.83)
that you saw rip over, not just be ahead, but validate it to a certain point and show some of the things, regardless of the type of competition, I'm going to go back to that tape and say, how was he hitting? Yeah, it's such bad spots. The slice will be a big, a certain part of you. You to such a place, have it, it's making it un-compatible, and there's all, a player won't just pass by.

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:59.435)
And there's all, you know, the player won't just match that, you know, solve that riddle tomorrow. But I will also say the same thing when you look at, you know, when you look at some of the things that Taylor was able to do to, to, Carlos, where was he serving him? Where was he making him uncomfortable? You know, what was he able to do to hold serve so often besides the 25 aces, what was he doing? And that's what other people in the camp were going to start looking at and watching in this age of AI and technology and data. You got to think they're going to do more of that going forward. So bottom line, Alvin, it's, like where this is.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:02.83)
So that was awful. But also say the same thing when we look at, you know, look at some things that failed to grow. Where was he serving? Where was he making the company? know, what was he going to put all those long designs on the basis? And that's what other people can start looking at and watching in this age of AI.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:25.486)
So I don't want to doubt it. I like where this is. I like where the whole world is now. We're pushing that pressure line. And I'm really looking forward to 528 testing, testing, and looking at the root cause of your point coming up. Obstetrics and men's six, and infection, these of course are coming up through the

Torrey Hawkins (01:07:28.393)
I like where the whole world is now in tennis. We're pushing the upper echelon and I really am looking forward to five through eight contesting as best they can. And I'm looking for the new guys to your point coming up on Zechers and Mn6 and such fees, of course, coming up through the ranks to kind of test these guys because that will only make tennis better.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:44.558)
testing fast because that will only tell you that. Right, right. So I think we've squeezed this orange. I feel good about, I don't think we left anything on the table here, so let's take a break and then we'll come back and we will discuss the limits final which happened yesterday. Cool.


Alvin Owusu (01:08:25.976)


And welcome back. back. just did the, we just covered the men's final. So if, you're watching this in an outside version of the full version, go back and listen to that one or listen to that one after you listen to this one. But as the title says, we're going to talk about the women's, the women's final, women's final won by Egos, we got tech Amanda and a some of, uh, uh, all the games to none of the games. Um, it's a,

Torrey Hawkins (01:08:44.218)
I did too Alvin I did too

Alvin Owusu (01:08:57.71)
know, didn't, we didn't, we like to do this as soon after the final as possible, but you know, some things came up yesterday and I think I personally need a little bit of time after that to... to really put this all in context. Yeah, go ahead.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:13.034)
If I may add my two cents before you, you keep going. I had to take a step back from my disappointment from the final to appreciate the road that Amanda was on. I was talking to your brother earlier today and we were talking about, for some reason it came to me, Shaquille O'Neal played 20 years in the NBA. I, know, young enough to remember when he was with the Orlando Magic.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:19.488)
I it.

mean, came to me. She killed me, I'll tell you, 20 years in a year. you know, don't remember when he was a girl that I...

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:43.019)
and they had one of their first NBA finals and how fish out of water, the magic seemed in that final. I said to say he was still pretty good. You knew he was gonna be good, but that was his first final. And it was funny to see how as hard as he tried, how's Michael Jordan, in one of his first conference, know, championships against the Boston Celtics. I think there was a spate in there where he scored 63 points in one game and 72 in another game.

Alvin Owusu (01:10:04.046)
I think it was space that we scored six three points in one game, seven seven one game. You can't score more than that in game. In a game. And we were losing after a solid idea. So you can't do more than that as a player. But really after that, the team regrouped, regrouped and started to put things together and based around that idea.

Torrey Hawkins (01:10:10.122)
You can't score more than that in an NBA game, in the playoffs. And they were in losing efforts, I might add. So you can't do more than that as a player. But clearly after that, the team regrouped, retooled, and started to put some things together, got some pieces around Michael, and a little bit of changing of coaching staff and such. But I said to say that first time out, you have to take it for what it is.

Alvin Owusu (01:10:29.87)
But did say that first time out, you have to take wins. You can't sit up and see the situation once or before. You made one of them. I'm not going to you a question.

Torrey Hawkins (01:10:35.304)
You can't say that was Ega's situation. She's won several before you made a point, Alvin. I have to give you your props on the macro. Perhaps the pomp and circumstance of it affected her. Perhaps she ran out gas like she said she did. But I just want to say it took me a minute to get my head around being disappointed through the lack of a max that it was and realize that she couldn't do any better than what she tried. And she perhaps peaked pretty well against her end of day before, right? And this is now her.

Alvin Owusu (01:10:42.926)
I'm what she said to me. But I just want to say it took me a bit to get my hand around what the black hole accident was and realize that.

she could do better than what she tried and she or have been pretty well-adjusted or right, it's not her, unless today. that she will be back and she has proven to me and to herself, more importantly to herself, that she deserves to be there in the last person's life. And I look forward seeing the more weathered, more experienced person that will make this moment.

Torrey Hawkins (01:11:04.648)
lesser day, but that she will be back. And she has proven to me and to herself, more importantly herself, that she deserves to be there in the last parts of a slam. And that we look, I look forward to seeing the more weathered, more experienced version of Amanda Nisamova in these bigger matches. And let's not judge her by this one unfortunate beat down with Iga, who we know is the bulldog of all bulldogs, you know, with certain players.

Alvin Owusu (01:11:23.402)
and us not judge her by this one unfortunate detail with Higa Kuhno is the bull of both of us.

Torrey Hawkins (01:11:34.107)
And that because it was the first one, you almost have to write it off a little bit to say, yeah, first time, she didn't know what to expect. And now if that happens two or three times with that, the jury is no longer out. It's the verdict's in. But on this one here, we have to have a little bit of respect, a little bit of understanding of nobody their first time comes through that situation with flying colors or if so, very few. And only if they're playing against another underdog.

Alvin Owusu (01:11:35.534)
Because of the first one, you always have to write a little bit to say, yeah, first of all, she did know what to say. And now that I'm still a group, I'm glad you got the jury's phone on the top. It's the first. But this one here, we have to a little bit of respect, a little bit of understanding of nobody that first time comes through that initial ration of black coats or can't go through it. And all of your paintings and paintings of other people that label you as you know.

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:02.596)
know, Layla and Emma, you know, from a US Open years ago would be able to have a similar situation. If you're playing against a former champ in this case, or at least a former Grand Slam champ, it's a little bit different. And I just feel like Amanda did a great job to get there. And I want to just say 100 % hats off to Eega, but for her first time, obviously being there and winning, but she was clearly the more poised of the two.

Alvin Owusu (01:12:05.4)
would

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:29.906)
but let's not be so quick to put dirt on the casket for Amanda going forward. If anything, she might have more to show us now that she's been experienced to this level.

Alvin Owusu (01:12:36.334)
Yeah, I'll very well put it. I think the things we need to understand about Amanda and Isamela, right, and then we'll get on to the ego of it. Not only is it her first, was it her first time in a Grand Slam final, right, and all the things that come along with that.

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:42.692)
I we need to.

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:49.68)
Not only is it

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:56.7)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:12:56.942)
But when you start to talk about some things that we talked about in the earlier part of this podcast, and we've talked about it on this podcast before about how one needs to manage themselves throughout the course of a Grand Slam. If your reference point is 10 days of a Grand Slam, it's very different than 14 days of a Grand Slam, right? You think about things a little bit differently if your expectation is to be there on final Saturday or final Sunday.

Torrey Hawkins (01:13:07.36)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:13:24.628)
is you know as little as our opinion of the men and some of the changes because she lost 0-0 to Egan in the final. Just remember in the very first match, her very first round of this tournament, she beat Elena Putin Seva 0-0 in the first round. I don't think any differently of Elena Putin Seva. She was going through some things as well. Double bagels happen in tennis for weird weird reasons.

Torrey Hawkins (01:13:24.777)
is you know as little as our pain changes because she lost her very first map her very first round this remember she was you well right don't they just happen it has weird weird right it's hard sometimes it the growing score itself becomes another

Alvin Owusu (01:13:47.382)
Right? It's hard to... Sometimes the growing score itself becomes another opponent. Right? If you remember... Yeah, when you lose the first set... You lose the first set 6-0 and then you regroup and then you come out in the first game of the second set and you hope to put your stamp down, right? But let's say you get broken. And then let's say your opponent holds and now it's like... You feel a lot of pressure.

Torrey Hawkins (01:13:54.546)
Another opponent. Whatever you do, don't get bageled. Whatever you do, don't get double bageled.

Torrey Hawkins (01:14:11.155)
Right. Sure. Man, the quicksand is rising very fast up to the nostrils. Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:14:15.886)
And so, down a break. Yes, the dough is rising. The dough is rising. And so, yeah, I'm willing to put that to the side. I am, you know, I did say that the occasion could be too much for Amanda. The things that we talked about were very much so in our finals preview, best-case scenario. If both players get to their level, then this is what we expect to see. And Amanda didn't get there, and everyone did not necessarily take into consideration

Torrey Hawkins (01:14:25.608)
I didn't say that the occasion could be too much. The things that we talked about were very much so in our finals preview. If both players get to their level, is going to exciting. If either one did not necessarily take into consideration the tee-pack, played back-to-back three centers, the match she against Marina, she looked dead right into the second set.

Alvin Owusu (01:14:45.548)
the fatigue level. She played back to back three centers and the match she against Arena, she looked good in the second set from a movement standpoint.

Torrey Hawkins (01:14:55.72)
You heard it right here in the quarterfinal match. It could have gone either way. To your point.

Alvin Owusu (01:15:03.502)
Yeah, so you know when we get into that match and you start to see that what Amanda's not able to produce is not necessarily didn't look necessarily like a function of nerves. It looked like a function of just not being able to physically do it. And if there's anyone that you don't want to be a little off against

Torrey Hawkins (01:15:25.419)
It's a good thing

Alvin Owusu (01:15:28.75)
He is the worst person to be on because he is literally I mean we call the bulldog he gives the destroyer welcome to he was bakery like it She is like a boxer just ready to go. She was chopping at the bit and she was fresh She got one set against Katie McAleen. That's it. No, sir. She's been she's been busting heads, right? Ready to go and so that just was a confluence of like all

Torrey Hawkins (01:15:54.907)
Yeah

Alvin Owusu (01:15:57.582)
the things coming together for a brief moment in time. That brief moment of time was 55, 56 minutes. And I think in our Australian Open, you know, of our Australian Open podcasts, I was talking about when you're playing against Ega, the first hour is very important. Ega starts faster than anyone else. And she's a front runner like nobody's business. So within the first hour, I think this was the, I think it was against Madison.

Torrey Hawkins (01:16:24.679)
it was against Madison. don't know, is she gonna be down 6-0 for you or is she gonna be 5-6 for first time? That will kind let you know where you mentally are, but that is the actual test. Can I get into it? get into it? And can I still be relevant by the time I do get it together?

Alvin Owusu (01:16:27.182)
you're talking about. It's like, I don't know, is she going to be down 6-0-3-0 or is it going to be 5-6 in the first set? That will kind of let you know where you are but like that is the actual test. Can I hold on long enough for her to burn off that fuel so I can get into this tennis match? Right, exactly.

Torrey Hawkins (01:16:49.862)
And in her nine games, it was unfortunately 0603, right? So it's already a done deal. You're just trying to get that respect game at that point. And to your point, Alvin, let me just go over two stats. And these two stats are the most telling. EGA, first serve percentage, 78.5. First serves in. Amanda, 45. Okay.

Alvin Owusu (01:16:57.112)
Peace.

here.

Yeah, go ahead and wrap it up.

Torrey Hawkins (01:17:19.448)
not, we know the obvious, one of the best returners of the game, period, in EGA, she doesn't need any help. She would return well and beat you if you served 65%. But if you're serving 45%, you're just playing right in her hand. Second stat, and this is where it really comes down to, Alvin, only put, now listen, this is the craziest, I'm gonna put these two stats in one. Second serves in.

Alvin Owusu (01:17:37.658)
Yeah, a second-serve return put in?

Torrey Hawkins (01:17:48.688)
Give me a number, what do you think? It's weird and the stats are weird in this regard because they, Wimbledon AI doesn't always do a good job of understanding what a good stat is. No, no, second serves in, made second serves. By the way, she's over-fell twice, so keep that in mind. 78 % of first serves in, how many second serves in do you think she has?

Alvin Owusu (01:18:08.526)
In 90 90 percent 90 per total no, well, she only serves six games She probably only made three second serves eight. Yeah, okay That she put in

Torrey Hawkins (01:18:17.83)
Total, me, not percentage, a number. There you go what I'm saying. Right. Eight, eight, eight second serves. Eight, the whole match. Alvin, of the eight second serve points, she won 70 % of them. So there's my two stats. Now let's, let's, let's, let's juxtapose that. 45 % first serves in and 27 % of first serve points won.

Alvin Owusu (01:18:38.126)
Let's just suppose that 45 % first serves hit it and 27 % of first serve points won't. Of course. There's a table that is fast. And here's the second one. 23 second serves total in play in those six games. That's a lot of Yeah, that's a function of that.

Torrey Hawkins (01:18:47.329)
of the 45, there's your tail, there's your stats. And here's your second one, 23 second serves total in play in those six games. 23. You get 23 second serves in three sets, let alone in a double bagel. So I say that to say, and of course of the second serve points one, think her second serve points one was only 36. Again, as you can appreciate with that on no match. But I say that to say,

Alvin Owusu (01:19:06.158)
So I still have to say of course, of the second set of points won, I think her second set of points won was only 36. she had a pretty good home match. But I still have to say, you can only appreciate that though that just shows you how she was about herself and even was herself. I still believe that one of the things you're to do is back to the life of the person. It's quite a potential for a more blessed, you you know, that for a second set of

Torrey Hawkins (01:19:16.633)
You can only appreciate that though that just shows you how she was not herself and ego was herself. Right. And I think that's just those, I wanted to mention those two stats there. Cause I, when I saw that it's funny how Wimbledon gives you, Hey, more or less, you know, yeah, you don't want to have a lot of second serve points. know, 23 is not the better score here versus eight. Eight's much better. It's like par and golf. You don't want to have more strokes. You know what I mean? You don't want to have that many, but it was just to say,

I really felt like it was a tough day for her not to play her best. And Ega, of course, in my opinion, played pretty, obviously very solid. And hats off to her for this whole year and whole last year of kind of having a little bit of a flub and you just shows the other players in the tour, other players and whatever your level. It could be your league, could be you're playing national clays and you had kind of a tough tournament and you're not ruled out for hard courts, you know, and so on. You just don't know. And if you can get back to the drawing board,

Alvin Owusu (01:19:53.326)
and half a curve, this full gear, and whole ass, kind of have a full club, and this total the other players, sort of like what you'd be, girl, you'd be.

And

Torrey Hawkins (01:20:15.055)
Fix couple of things that you know that you're better at and fix it fairly quickly. You could have a better Kalamazoo or sole Kalamazoo than you think just because you've changed things around and the people that have done well may not have as good of a time because they did well. Just look at Coco between French and Wembe here, Madison between Australia and French and so on. there's just some, my point is to say it just, it doesn't rule you out because you had a bad match. It doesn't rule you out because you had a great, it doesn't make you a favorite because you won the last one. Here's.

know, Air Sabalink who's had close to three straight finals, it wasn't even in this final and has done great, but obviously it was a clear cut favorite for the whole tournament and then gets knocked off by Amanda. This, I love the women's game for the parody in it, but I also have to give Iga her due. Iga played some flat out TQC on the women's side and her quality control and God bless it, she played solid and completely played different than I thought she would have played by maybe stepping back.

Alvin Owusu (01:20:45.23)
So, wait a second.

Torrey Hawkins (01:21:13.573)
hitting more balls through the middle of the court, forcing Amanda to go for the shot she didn't really wanna have. She jumped on the moment, she played solid, she didn't make a lot of mistakes. She served great, returned great, and really just kinda played Amanda like, yeah, you're a little tight right now. I'm not gonna help you out by playing faster.

Alvin Owusu (01:21:28.398)
So let's go back, right? So we're talking about EGAA in the last, let's say 12 months, right? And there's a lot has been, a lot of ink has been spilled about EGAA hasn't won a tournament since French Open last year, right? And then finaled the tournament until I think was Eastbourne or whatever, the last warmup right before Wimbledon. And that's all fine and great, right? That's a nice little tight loop to look at in 12 months.

Torrey Hawkins (01:21:40.121)
Yep.

Right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:21:53.398)
And that's all.

Alvin Owusu (01:21:58.374)
let's look more at like Madison Keys, right? Madison Keys final US Open, when was that? The first one? When she lost the slump? 17? Okay, all right. Eight years later, she returns to a final, right? And wins it. So now we're talking about an eight year span, in which she was, you know, top ranked American prodigy, made the US Open final.

Torrey Hawkins (01:22:08.607)
2017 I think I'm pretty sure 2017. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:22:27.266)
final, got there and froze up a bit, not necessarily went in the woods, but kind of up and down as a 15 to 35, 15 to 50 ranked player. And then got ourselves solidly in the top 20 for a few years with a couple of spikes that bring them to never really getting back to that spot. And then finally, it's kind of just make some changes and then find yourself. And plan for Grand Slam.

Alvin Owusu (01:22:27.726)
got there and froze up a bit. Not necessarily went in the woods, but know, kind of up and downs as a 15 to 35, 15 to 50 ranked player. And then got herself solidly in the top 20 for a few years with a couple of spikes at Grand Slam, never really getting back to that spot. And then finds good tennis, makes some changes and then finds herself playing at the top of the top of of top top of of of the top top top of the top the the the top of the

Torrey Hawkins (01:22:55.989)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (01:22:56.782)
That's an eight year span, right? There was a time where Roger Federer went into the woods a little bit and couldn't, I think he went two years without winning a slam, right? There was a time when Novak was in the woods a little bit. I remember the the last good moment, he won in 02, must say, and was down to a sense of change, a represent, and after that call, the dark was the darkness. Darkness, yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:23:04.964)
that he went to hear about it. It there's Simon Novak. Novak, Pete Sampras. I remember the last, the last US Open Pete won in 02, if I'm not mistaken, was down two sets and some change to Gret Brusecki. And the match got called for weather, for darkness. Remember that? And he was like Gregor Dimitrov in some ways. And Novak had a similar match against Joe Willey, Saunga and a French. That same thing. And they came back the next day and was able to pull it out.

Alvin Owusu (01:23:26.328)
Jordan, go out in some ways and build it.

Alvin Owusu (01:23:31.95)
Same thing, I you came out to the next point, pulled out. I said to say, we look back at the stats now, the great science capital, which is of course on fire, but everything actually did not terminate out of the cut and dry, as you might have thought. yeah, that started a truck, we don't want to go back to that, it wasn't the same. It was dead right, it was dead right. We now see it hold up to a little bit, but man, must say, the hardware did not come without its...

Torrey Hawkins (01:23:34.933)
I said to say, we look back at the stats now in the Grand Slam count and the number of titles, which is of course awe-inspiring, but every match in that tournament may not have been cut and dry, you know, as you might've thought. And the annex center Dimitrov, we don't want to go back to that one, but just saying, he was dead to rights, Alvin. He was dead to rights. We now see him holding up the Wimbledon jewelry, but make no mistake, the hardware, you know, did not come without its near misses and without its issues.

Alvin Owusu (01:24:01.326)
without its realistic and localization. I like what you're saying here. I feel as women's camp...

Torrey Hawkins (01:24:04.619)
I like what you're saying here. I feel the women's game in particular, Alvin.

Torrey Hawkins (01:24:12.214)
Right?

Torrey Hawkins (01:24:15.655)
Where she was. she was.

stretch there right post party yep yep yep

Alvin Owusu (01:24:30.606)
She's not worse.

Torrey Hawkins (01:24:36.437)
Agreed. Agreed. For sure. sure. Right. She's certainly improved, but she's not much different.

Alvin Owusu (01:24:58.328)
Well, she's not she's not she's not worse everyone else as they should raise their level and get better So then what does that all force her to do fire her coach? Changes and also trying to get better. So here we are She goes a year without making without winning a tournament, but she's as opposed to like losing in finals and winning tournaments She was losing in quarters and semis, but she was losing in the first round. She didn't go away She dropped from one to eight right before the draw was made and then back up before right?

Torrey Hawkins (01:25:13.982)
Thank you

Alvin Owusu (01:25:27.692)
And now she's at three. She's still right there. She's still right there. Now we have this beautiful, like you mentioned, parody in the game, in women's game that's starting to show itself. We've had how many different Grand Slam champions in the last six Grand Slams. think Egan, first last year, Egan, moment of this year, and then different ones in between and all of them. it's a beautiful thing. I'm gonna let you go, but I wanted to make sure we took some time to talk about.

Torrey Hawkins (01:25:43.282)
Five? Right, five, I'll right back in I think so.

Alvin Owusu (01:25:57.59)
you know, kind of where Amanda's been.

Torrey Hawkins (01:25:57.794)
you're kind of wearing anything. Before we go to Amanda, I want to talk more to Eega and the fallacy in thinking in the women's game. We saw this in, was it 2019? Layla and Emma, if I'm not mistaken, pretty close if I'm not mistaken. Was it about five, six years ago? 2020.

Alvin Owusu (01:26:07.118)
This is the 29th webinar.

Alvin Owusu (01:26:14.478)
I it was right after...

Torrey Hawkins (01:26:19.33)
2019, 2018?

Alvin Owusu (01:26:20.558)
No, no, no, no, it was like 2021, was right after the uh...

Torrey Hawkins (01:26:24.354)
221, fair enough, 221, but after COVID.

2022, there you go. God, it feels like it's longer. The fallacy in the women's game is because we're in the vacuum of the post-Serena era, you're not good until you can win nine of 12, right? Fallacy. That has rarely been the case in the women's game outside of the old school Chris Martina. And I feel like the greats have spoiled us in our expectation. There were many years, 60s, 70s, 80s.

Alvin Owusu (01:26:40.366)
You're not going to see him or not. Right. is outside of.

Alvin Owusu (01:26:52.334)
12,000 expectations. There were many years, six, seven, eight, where the top included more, included Mac, included JETLO, included Dick, created Andre, so on. Where there were also other fighting winners that year that you didn't forget about. Then along comes a player who's tricked them on a couple of the circumstances for more. Or the greatest of all time, like Rob who wins.

Torrey Hawkins (01:26:59.081)
where the top, including Bork, including Mack, including Jimbo, including the great Pete, Andre, and so on, where there were also other slam winners that year that you didn't forget about. Then along comes a player who's pretty good on a couple of the surfaces or more, or a greatest of all time player like a Roth who wins, many was it? 14 of 18 slams, whatever, the French, that just puts it out of contention that you forgot what the previous,

Alvin Owusu (01:27:19.15)
14 of 18 slams were in first. It just puts it out of contention that you forgot what the previous standard was. But the reality was many people were in the first before him. He just had to be reflectable in several during his tenure. I say that to say for one minute, for me and I hear a lot before I buy it, are a lot of people, we always misact.

Torrey Hawkins (01:27:28.997)
what the previous, what's the word I'm looking for? Standard was, but the reality of it was many people won the French before him. He just happened to be the player that won several during his tenure. I say that to say the women is for me and I hear a lot of people talk about it, regular fans, other people, we almost discount the two, three, four, five player in the world because they haven't won a slam this year. They're still great players. And that upset player is just as dangerous.

Alvin Owusu (01:27:48.366)
two, three, four, five players in the world. Because they haven't lost slam this year, there's no great players. that upset player is just as dangerous. And the players that want to run here, who's great for the bar, that's players that are raising the bar next time. If you're lucky enough, you're gonna have a of time to see two or three players win several times. They're special. And if you're lucky enough, you have been a Steve-I-Sick player with more than five or six jobs.

Torrey Hawkins (01:27:58.483)
And the player that won it last year, who's raised the bar, the next player is gonna raise the bar the next time. If you're lucky enough in your own lifetime to see two or three players win it several times, they're special. And if you're lucky enough, as we have been, to see that same player win it more than five or six times, we don't change the dynamic and say, they're really good, everybody else is terrible. No, no, no, they're really special. Everybody else is still really good.

Alvin Owusu (01:28:17.656)
We don't change the dynamic. They're really good. They're really special. Everybody else is still really good. I that's the policy I see them thinking. As if to say the rest of the park ain't good, we don't take enough to say how much better this player is to raise her game on Skye Ferguson, on several years on it, on...

Torrey Hawkins (01:28:27.104)
And I think that's the fallacy I think I see in thinking it's as if to say the rest of them aren't any good. We don't take enough to say how much better this player is to raise her game on several services, on several years on end, on multiple services, on, you know, after people have caught her and she's had to raise the game and come back. And that's the thing to me that really needs to be said here about EGA is that

Alvin Owusu (01:28:45.006)
multiple services on your after people call her and she's had a race get her back and that's the thing to me is that we were questioning she was going to have a little fight with the way she was going to to some of the with the way she was kind of just being and their own topic was because it gone down and dare I say I was a little

Torrey Hawkins (01:28:55.326)
We were questioning if she was gonna ever make another final with the way she was playing going into some of these tournaments, with the way she looked like she was kinda just being, and her own confidence as well had kinda gone down. And dare I say, I was a little leery of Carlos during the Miami and India Well stretch. Looked like he had lost himself. Looked like he had lost what he was doing. Had no idea.

Alvin Owusu (01:29:11.662)
I think those are really those are two really really good comparisons because That kind of speaks to my longevity point like within any within any any storied career when we look at it You know big picture ago Wow look at the number at the end But when you zoom in and look at any given year any given 12-month period there will be natural highs and lows

Torrey Hawkins (01:29:38.456)
Right As a most absolute close

Alvin Owusu (01:29:41.218)
Right, Carlos just went back to back, Grand Slam final, wins French Open, won damn near every match leading up to the French Open, and then final, wins the tournament, finals Wimbledon, my man lost to David Goffin, like three months ago. Like three months ago. Right? That happened. He lost the Botic-Bender Zen slope, like not that long ago. Right? So like these things, they're humans, and we have points in our life when...

Torrey Hawkins (01:29:51.52)
Exactly. Yeah. Then it banished loop. Yep. That's right.

Alvin Owusu (01:30:11.252)
Everything is pointing pointing forward and all signals are green and we're allowed to like all our best is allowed to flow out of us and there are times when we're fighting ourselves

Torrey Hawkins (01:30:11.391)
everything is pointing forward and all symbols are green. It will allow us to like, all of our best is about to flow out of us and there are times when we're fighting. We hit the red light every way on the way to work. I mean, we're out of the neighborhood on the way to the interstate, know, traffic accident. I mean, and it just happens. And I say that to say we should look through it through that lens of every day, not from high.

Alvin Owusu (01:30:28.12)
Great!

Great!

Torrey Hawkins (01:30:39.709)
Right? Look at it from every day up and appreciate these moments, especially the women's game, which has had a lot of parody in the last five, six years. And appreciate that the game is that good. These women are as good as ever, if not better than you think. Just, just go watch them and you'll, and you'll see it. But at the same time, when one is able to replicate some success, appreciate that they've done some things.

Alvin Owusu (01:30:43.991)
special.

Alvin Owusu (01:30:51.885)
Thank

Alvin Owusu (01:30:57.688)
Just go watch it. But at the same time, one is able to replicate some success, appreciate that they've done some things, especially in the media, have respect for each other and they're running for them. She did not lack moves. She's not trying to lose. She is getting better and she's improved.

Torrey Hawkins (01:31:07.217)
especially now Egan, me and her second iteration of herself and here Wimbledon, she did not like losing. She's not trying to lose. She ain't trying to give it away. She is getting better and she's improved her serve. Her level of commitment to get better is as strong as anybody's. And I feel like we don't always not only not give her her due or give all the players their due, we take it for granted a little bit is what I'm saying. As if to say,

Alvin Owusu (01:31:20.566)
Her level of commitment to get better is at top of her inbox. And I feel like we don't always not want to give her a review of all the things we do. We don't take her command of commitment. As if to say, you know, oh, she wants that, she should go already. Like, there's just this level of pre-op player releases that make us feel better. know, once I get the call, I feel the power.

Torrey Hawkins (01:31:33.843)
You know, well, she did this, she won that, so she's good already. Like, there's just this level a player reaches and they just stay there, you know? Once I hit this level, I'm just good from now on. No, no, no, buddy, no. It's a dynamic, it's a dynamic, fluid situation at every tournament, let alone in every match. And therefore, buddy, you gotta keep grinding. You know, look at the former, some former Graham Sam's winners who are no longer even seated in this tournament, men and women, let alone.

you know, let alone players who you thought, man, what happened? You know, we were shocked that Cilic, you know, had a nice upset, upset it. He got to finals of Wimby and won the US Open, Alvin, not long ago. And he's now regarded as you know, as a has-been, you know what I mean? We got, you know, we got Mark Kata, Vantrasova and Kredjikova who were former slam winners at this tournament got bounced before the bigger rounds. And we were, we had, I know I did, had them going farther, you know, maybe upsetting some other players. So, and-

Alvin Owusu (01:32:05.002)
Yeah

Torrey Hawkins (01:32:30.586)
with history on our side, we would have been correct. But unfortunately, the other opponent said, I'd like to have a word.

Alvin Owusu (01:32:34.912)
I'm like, I like that word. Exactly. Well, speaking of history, like, EGOT now moving into, we're in a very interesting spot, not to talk much about the men's event because we already did that, between Yannick Center, Carlos Alcaraz, and EGOT now, we have three active players who are one slam away from the career grand slam. Isn't that wild? Isn't that something?

Torrey Hawkins (01:32:46.718)
between Yannick Center, Pearl's Opera House, and ESL right now, we have three active players who are one slam away from the career trans slam. Isn't that something? is, career brand slam is rare by Very rare error. But I think we as tennis fans have been so spoiled lately to where it almost seems like, oh yeah, doesn't everyone have a career trans slam? Spoiled, I'll say it again.

Alvin Owusu (01:33:01.442)
That is, career Grand Slam is rarefied air, but I think we as tennis fans have been so blessed lately to where it almost seems like, yeah, doesn't everyone have a career Grand Slam? It's like.

Torrey Hawkins (01:33:16.211)
were spoiled. The person who coined the term Serena slam, right? To your point. mean, it was just was not even a generation ago was it was just a handful of years ago. So to your point.

Alvin Owusu (01:33:16.814)
coming off the heels of the victory and big four, Serena, and then coming into the greatness of the EGAs.

Hell, Yannick Center is one double match point blown away from a center slam. Looking at Arias, right? That's kind of lot. But Ega has put herself like this woman who was so proficient on clay court, got herself a US Open win, continued to be dominant on clay court, and now has made some adjustments to get herself the Wimbledon title. going back to the...

Torrey Hawkins (01:33:40.734)
away from the center circle. Thank Looking in a rear frame. Sure. That's kind of wow. But you guys put yourself like this, this woman who was so perplexed on playing for her, got herself into the circle, continued to dominate over the quarter. Now it's made some adjustments to get herself the title. going back to the beginning of that match, when they're going through the center.

Alvin Owusu (01:34:05.868)
the beginning of that match when they're going through the ceremony and painting the royal box, like, it was so cool seeing all of the former champions, former women's champions that showed up for that match. And I can only imagine, like, going back to your college and watching all the people in the record books before you show up to watch them play. It was like...

Torrey Hawkins (01:34:09.794)
It was so cool seeing all of the former women's champions that showed up that match. And I can only imagine going back to your college and watching all the people in the record books. Right, watching. Right, right, right. That's a good perspective to think about.

Alvin Owusu (01:34:34.314)
Yeah, like see even like Martina Hingis and Martina Navratilova, obviously Billie Jean King, Conchita Martinez, like even more so recently, Simone Howlip. Like it was just like, wow, they're all here. They're all here. They've all done this thing. That was pretty cool. so I just think, I mean, and also putting it in perspective, like now at Six Grand Slams, right? Moving past Hingis, right, into the, she's one behind Venus.

Torrey Hawkins (01:34:39.963)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:35:03.886)
and justine in and are done right so like we're in cellist's that you start looking at cells at nine that's what she's going for now like let's put 24 24 her and amanda are both 24 so that's something to consider um like it seems like amanda is she seems like she's in a really good place i'm going to kind of go over to what i you know after the match like obviously the tennis was the tennis for you know six out of seven matches

Torrey Hawkins (01:35:10.172)
That's where she's going for. how old is she Alvin? 25? 24? Wow. Wow. It seems like Amanda is... She seems like she's in a relationship.

Torrey Hawkins (01:35:30.396)
Also the tennis was the tennis for 6-7 years. Sure. We got that. 100%. But then you start to look at, okay, she fell short a little bit, but Amanda Thomas-Milba for non-tennis, tennis tennis fans, was more or less an unknown thing. She popped early and then made a few numbers open, what not, went away, well not committed, went away and did all.

Alvin Owusu (01:35:33.486)
We got that. But then you start to look at, okay, she fell short a little bit, but Amanda Samoa for non-tennis, tennis tennis fans, was more or less an unknown thing, right? Because she peaked, she popped early, and then made a semi-final for a jump and whatnot, went away, well documented, but don't think back into all that. That was the story that they beat over our heads during the moment, got it.

Torrey Hawkins (01:35:59.292)
during your other work, like got it. But now she's back and she seems like she is in a good place and she's enjoying being a professional. It's a hard job. You need to deal with it. Brutal, brutal on the confidence, on on beating up your identity, you your results are who you are, not necessarily who you are is who you are. And I was so impressed.

Alvin Owusu (01:36:02.434)
But now she's back and she seems like she is in a good place and she's enjoying being a professional tennis player. It's a hard job. And you need to be in love with it.

Alvin Owusu (01:36:21.454)
I'm going to go and solve for you all in half a second.

Torrey Hawkins (01:36:27.581)
to your point, Alvin, as I know you were. I was so impressed with her presence, her appreciation of her team, her family, the fans. Here's a person that, you let's be honest, Alvin, got a little embarrassed out there in that 0-0 beat down. Wasn't playing her best, you know she wasn't. Clearly not her choice to play that, to play that un-competitive, right? Didn't feel she played horrible, but certainly didn't play her best and just got embarrassed score-wise for sure. And played a...

Alvin Owusu (01:36:36.43)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:36:43.694)
to play that on.

Alvin Owusu (01:36:49.228)
Yeah

Torrey Hawkins (01:36:56.614)
could not have been more composed after playing less than stellar. And I was so impressed with her. Her comments came from a place of reflection that came from a place of I'm happy to be here right now. And I'm not clearly I'm little, little bummed for you all and for me about how well I played, but I'm really happy to be here right now. If you'd asked me two years ago, if I would have been in a Wimbledon final.

Alvin Owusu (01:37:19.576)
two years.

Torrey Hawkins (01:37:23.77)
I wouldn't have believed you. And to have her there and to have her reflect after an 0-0 match that she was still very happy with her success of reaching that final told me she remembered the better part of the deal where a person with some identity issues may have forgotten how big of an achievement it was to get there in the first place.

Alvin Owusu (01:37:35.194)
I think that's a really really good point because I think I can cross texting with you or somebody else post match

Torrey Hawkins (01:37:48.278)
think I remember I texting with you or somebody else, post match, was the end of the match or before the ceremony?

Alvin Owusu (01:37:52.952)
Plus the end of the match but before the trophy, before the ceremony. Amanda Anisimova right now has the opportunity to introduce herself to the world. You get the microphone and you get a chance to present yourself to the world. To the greater, maybe the more casual tennis public who turns in on the weekend semifinals moving forward to the finals of a great slam. Yeah, this is Russian sounding American girl, who is she?

Torrey Hawkins (01:38:01.908)
Right. Right. Right. Who is this girl? Who's this Amanda girl? Right. American. Right. Sure. Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:38:21.068)
Right? Doesn't necessarily know her entire backstory. And she presented herself to the world in the most fantastic and poetic way possible. And I think she won over so many fans in that point. But also, I'm going go back to the beginning of the year when she was on her comeback trail, right? She went away, came back, couldn't qualify for the event last year.

Torrey Hawkins (01:38:30.811)
And I think she won over so many fans at that point. But also, I'm to go back to the beginning of the year when she was on her comeback trail, right? Obviously, it like, one way it came back, couldn't qualify for the end of last year. It started to slow the building last summer. And then she said to her team, she she was very open about this afterwards. the match, said, my goal at beginning of the year

Alvin Owusu (01:38:50.222)
and then started slowly building last summer. And then he said to her team, she was very open about this afterwards after the match, she's like, my goal in the beginning of the year was to be top five. And that lets you know about the type of player we're dealing with here. She is not a, she's not new to this, true to this. This girl is no joke in juniors.

Torrey Hawkins (01:39:14.858)
100 % I saw when she was in 12th. Yeah, Yeah, no doubt.

Alvin Owusu (01:39:17.998)
I saw her when she was 18 in Orzammel. She was the number two ranked girl in the world coming out of juniors. She made the semifinals of the French Open at age 17. This is not a joke. She's not a fly-by-night kind of player. Cards get dealt a little differently. Her father slash coach has not passed away. She might be one of only a few Grand Slaves right now. Yeah, exactly.

Torrey Hawkins (01:39:30.683)
100 %

100 % Constantine 100 % 100 % much like much like sabalinka, you know when she went through some things like that for sure

Alvin Owusu (01:39:46.188)
Let's take that one. Let's put all that behind us. This is where we are right now. She's seven in the world. She'll be seven in the world on Monday. With six months to play and she understands what's in front of her. She said, I got to this point in the tournament with a average serve. My fitness is getting better. It's not where it needs to be to, she said specifically, to be able to compete in seven straight matches. Right? Now that is, and this is a player who just got beat 0-0.

Torrey Hawkins (01:39:51.695)
Yeah. With six months to play. Yeah. Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:40:16.042)
Sounds like she is letting herself move through the process Exactly so now that that gets me as a fan Excited about okay What is a manna gonna be able to do in the next three months? Like it's like do we did we just get another one? This is great

Torrey Hawkins (01:40:19.482)
That's right. And understands where she is in the process reflecting back on six months ago with the progress and what's still left to be done. That's a great point. Let alone three years.

Right. Yeah. my God. That's right. That's Who can contend with the top? And what I like about this, and you and I have talked about this on several occasions, and don't think Arena's gonna take this line down, right? Don't think Madison is not still working. And don't think that Coco is back saying, good for her.

Alvin Owusu (01:40:43.82)
This is a boom for women's tennis right now because not only do we have, you know, four straight different Grand Slam champions, but now we got another person to do. This is awesome. Exactly.

And don't think the reason why people don't like it. Sure, I'm just still there. Don't think that's still working. And don't think the cocoa is actually all good for it. I'll just take that to him. And that makes the rest of the world more competitive. And that is the truth.

Torrey Hawkins (01:41:09.562)
I'll just take top 10. You know, no, no, no. And that makes the rest of it more contentious, more competitive. And that makes the tournament that much more fun to watch because you have no idea who is going to come through that day. And that makes for great content. makes for great tennis. makes for the tour to get more competitive. As I say, it's, it's, it's really a neat thing. And I appreciate your perspective. I, her post match interview helped me appreciate how much her

Alvin Owusu (01:41:23.566)
Thanks for the great content, thanks for the great intense, thanks for the tour we've all had. As a state, it's been really, I appreciate your perspective. Her post-magic energy helped me appreciate her years.

Torrey Hawkins (01:41:37.888)
year or two that she took off was needed for her for her perspective and for her to get where she's got to now. And I felt better about her future after listening to her because she remembered the important parts of that match, which was getting to the match, not that match itself.

Alvin Owusu (01:41:53.473)
And she's she quarterfinal French Open a couple weeks ago lost to arena in a really competitive match Previously stated that she semi-final she's semi-final French Open before She's sniffing

She's sniffing. don't know if it's this year. don't know, but it feels like another good offseason and. Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:42:08.709)
I don't know if it's this year. I don't know if it feels like another good off season. Stay's healthy, keeps training. We could be in for something even as soon as Australia or late in the year. You're absolutely right. Maybe even maybe US Open, we don't know. But I want to say one last part about Ega. I know you made a comment earlier about, you know, perhaps we don't give Ega all that she's do. Let's face it. Let's say right here. Sometimes you don't

give the champion their due because it's understood. And I want to make that point. I don't often give the top, top player in the world, especially they've been a top player in the world their due because unfortunately and fortunately we base the top off of them. And so therefore it's easy to come, I'm comparing Amanda to Eega. I'm not comparing it the other way around. So when Eega is Eega, I say the comments,

Alvin Owusu (01:42:38.85)
out.

give top time.

Alvin Owusu (01:42:47.352)
because

We next.

And so therefore it's easy to come up with. I'm not comparing it. So when I say that how is she? What does that mean? To be the best of the world?

Torrey Hawkins (01:43:05.08)
She didn't have enough today. What does that mean? To beat the best in the world. Who is Ega Sviatnik? When I say that Ega is proved herself and previous former multiple Grand Slam champ, I am also saying in everything that comes with the experience, the level, the consistency, the TQC, right? Her total quality control. She doesn't have many bad matches.

Alvin Owusu (01:43:15.31)
I

Torrey Hawkins (01:43:33.079)
I think it's important to review that this point because it was four or five months ago. I said it. You may have even said it. I was worried about Ega. I was worried about her blow to her confidence, a big part of her game. She...

Alvin Owusu (01:43:43.79)
think it was a reader like one and one in Madrid, something like that.

Torrey Hawkins (01:43:47.651)
Did not, well, Polo, yeah. I don't think she was playing her best tennis. I don't think she was in the right place. However, as a champion will do, one of my favorite quotes in the, and ad taglines, champions adjust. And she has adjusted with the best of them. And I look at where she's at now, Alvin, and I couldn't be more proud of her and her team. As I say, it's only going to help the rest of the tour continue to move and to progress. But.

hats off for her for not losing confidence in herself. Confidence in her as hard as she works for it, as so hard as she trains. And let's face it, her results and her identity are kind of wrapped up in one a little bit, right? So she, to not win, must have been devastating for her to some level, some core level. And for her to bounce back, double down on herself, work harder, know, says a lot about the kind of person she is.

Alvin Owusu (01:44:18.282)
And almost settle in with

competing for it all. Like she really enjoyed being number one in the world, but almost to the point of needing to defend it as opposed to embrace living it or competing for it. Now it seems like she's seen the highs, she's seen the quote unquote lows, eight in the world. Um, and now she's in that spot where she came into Wimbledon and she seemed happier. She didn't look stressed. She looked ready to compete and enjoy.

Torrey Hawkins (01:44:46.166)
Right. Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:45:14.808)
repeating.

Torrey Hawkins (01:45:15.311)
Look that way in the French too Alvin, let's be honest. Look that way in the French. I still say the best match of that French Open, no disrespect to Coco or Arena, or Coco specifically, that semifinal with her and Arena was one of the best French Open women's matches I have seen ever. I mean, it was just phenomenal tennis. And I say that to say, she played that good then. I knew she was back when I saw that match. No disrespect to Coco. Coco played a great match and matched up better, obviously to Arena. That being said.

I felt like it was important for her to go through this phase. She's come out on the other side. She's better for it. tennis is better for it. The tour is better for it. But I want to make sure we, specifically gave her due, gave her props. The commentator made a point which I always don't necessarily key in on. First Polish person to win Wimbledon ever. And that kind of stuff is a big deal. You're talking about sometimes there's

Alvin Owusu (01:45:50.542)
you know.

Alvin Owusu (01:45:56.024)
gate party.

I don't want to say all of them, but I'll Keenah. First Polish person to win book. And that's such a big deal. Sometimes it's a country that has a lot of good books. First one to win a book.

Torrey Hawkins (01:46:11.361)
country that in Poland has had a lot of top players over the years. First one to win, male or female, and that just lets you know that is a big deal. Clearly that's a big deal for her. you know, it just shows you how you can transcend your sport. You can imagine billboards back in Poland. You know, you're going down, coming from the airport, congratulations, you see on tech, you you come out of Warsaw and you're sitting there looking at that billboard and you're an eight year old girl playing tennis, you know, and you're like.

Alvin Owusu (01:46:23.63)
It just shows you how you can transcend your sports. can back to the workforce, to both. You're going out there with a character. You're at the next biggest contact. coming to shut up. at next biggest contact. contact. You're at the the the You're at next at the You're You're You're You're the the You're You're at the You're at You're the next You're You're contact. You're at the next biggest You're at biggest contact.

Torrey Hawkins (01:46:40.568)
There's my idol right there, Iga. And now you don't realize, like we saw with a couple of sisters that had braids and beads in their hair many years ago, and how that impacted our game down the street from where we saw. And you don't know how much you're transcending the game before you as you're playing it. And she's doing that for many girls around the world. And it just was really, really fun to see. And again, for her to get back to that top perch after having been dethroned slash fallen off.

to get back to it was a big deal for her and clearly it came with some work and so happy for her and her team to rededicate themselves to the goals. And at the end of the day, all you can do is put in more work, maybe a little more applied, maybe a little more specific work, maybe a little more, maybe some changes, but double down on what got you there in the first place and Ega has done that in spades.

Alvin Owusu (01:47:20.142)
Maybe it won't.

Alvin Owusu (01:47:26.99)
Yeah, And I think just even to add on that, think Center, I think he's the first Italian male to win Wimbledon. I'm not sure if he's the only Italian to win Wimbledon, but these people are also still people from places that have tennis players coming up. Claudia Panetta, yeah, did she win Wimbledon? Yeah. But these people are people from places that have...

Torrey Hawkins (01:47:33.175)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:47:41.623)
these people are also still people from places that have... Right. I think it was Flavia Panetta back in the day. I think so.

Alvin Owusu (01:47:52.814)
also have the responsibility of going to the sport where they live. are players, this thing about tennis, tennis keeps on going, there are always players coming up behind you. So,

Torrey Hawkins (01:47:56.639)
Right. Shout out to Italian tennis, by the way, Alvin Cabelli, Jasmine, my girl, Coach Yobeta. Yeah, Coach Yobeta. mean, they've been putting out some, this didn't happen yesterday, right? These players, don't start this week and get a great Wimbledon turnout by next Friday. You know I mean? This has been years in the making for the Italian Federation. So shout out to them.

Alvin Owusu (01:48:08.782)
I'll do it.

Torrey Hawkins (01:48:27.254)
Jasmine made a comment in one of the tournaments about how we're all, we have a great Italian contingency. We're all supporting each other. And at the time she said it, I'm like, I'm looking around like who else, know, who, and sure enough in this tournament, we see Corcioretti and we see Cabelli, you know, get that far. of course I know my boy, you know, have to give him his props now, Lorenzo and, and others, but there's others that I've seen, Mossetti and others that are, you know, that are,

Alvin Owusu (01:48:36.428)
showed up this time and we speak, you know, get that form and of course it's on point.

I'm gonna get across now, Lorenzo, others that I've seen, David Massetti and others that are, know, are- Sadego, like for instance. Sadego, you know, played a great match there against the Bay, sounds actually rare to me. There's just many others that have been playing.

Torrey Hawkins (01:48:54.742)
Sonigo, know, who played a great match there against Ben. That was actually a very entertaining match. There's just been so many others that have been playing such good tennis. Shout out to Fabio Fagnini, you one of my all time favorite Italians, you know. So there's been so many good ones that have come through. Whatever the team Italia, Italy has been doing has been well, well noted and very much deserved with their success. They've been putting it down.

women and men and just continue to make a nice push. so, you know, obviously, CENTER being the crown jewel of that, of the country, just very, happy to see them get all the success that their hard work has deserved.

Alvin Owusu (01:49:37.322)
And last shout out in that same vein, US tennis, while we haven't had the male champion that we've had in years before, prior to the big three.

Torrey Hawkins (01:49:41.264)
US hivis, when we had it at the mail, she

Alvin Owusu (01:49:50.606)
On the whole, we're getting a lot of opportunities. We've had four women, four different women in four consecutive Grand Slam finals going back to last year's US Open, Jessica Bagula, obviously Madison the Australian, Coco in the French, and now Amanda here. Last day of the tournament, there's an American woman. And I love the fact that there are different American women. Now your question goes to one of

Torrey Hawkins (01:49:51.183)
my god. Right, different women.

Right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:50:09.001)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:50:17.358)
why the hell didn't we the Village and King Cup? You know what? This is different conversation. we are, think, the, we should, you know, and we have some guests lined up that might be able to speak to this a little more broadly than we can or should at this point. But there is a lot of value in getting as many shots at the goal as possible.

And eventually, hopefully on the men's side, Taylor's doing a fantastic job. He's made semi-informal there now. He finaled US Open not that long ago last year. Ben's been knocking on the door.

Torrey Hawkins (01:50:39.093)
eventually.

Torrey Hawkins (01:50:46.421)
Ben has re-asserted himself as a serious threat to every quarter in semi, which we thought, I thought, bit of a flash in the pan when he first came out, but just happened to have a good run. And now he's gotten there in my opinion, the hard way, which is the doing it again, right? Easy to do it when no one knows who you are, you know?

Alvin Owusu (01:51:02.446)
and how he's out there, which is good hint. He's doing a lot of good sports. He seems really good at getting through week one of a Grand Slam. He's learned how to manage getting through week one of a Grand Slam. And so now he's semifinal, semifinal in the US Open, or Australian Open this year. Yeah, I he's semifinal US Open last year maybe, quarterfinal here. Quarterfinal, yeah, he's going.

Torrey Hawkins (01:51:12.261)
And that in itself is a big deal, right?

Torrey Hawkins (01:51:19.541)
Yeah. Quarter Aussie quarter here two years ago quartered here this time.

Alvin Owusu (01:51:27.168)
semi it semi it did he send me or no semi quarter quarter the fridge open just a week ago lost Carlos there but he's losing to no back no back losing to Carlos in the center like I mean so what does that tell you he's living in that four through eight spot like what does you know what what is left for him

Torrey Hawkins (01:51:36.277)
He's losing to... Losing to Carlos. Right. Right. Losing to Carlos Novak. You know what mean? Right. He's right there. Yep. Yep. Just just in the top 10. Just in the top 10. And he's still he's still a lot of years to go. So to your point, USTA player development is doing a great thing. I hope and we don't have this conversation. I hope the US continues to appreciate each of their paths.

that have gotten them there and embraces every path that continues to bear fruit. They don't always have to go through the, this is the model, this is the type of player that we've unfortunately cubby holed ourselves to in years past. We've got to look at different ways of getting there. We got to look at different pathways and different game styles that match perhaps the different services and continue to help those and those teams and things continue to get to that level. And I feel like in times past,

Alvin Owusu (01:52:24.824)
for our student services and the team that helps those and receiving the case.

Torrey Hawkins (01:52:33.256)
We have so many players. It's hard to give a lot of love to everybody, but it's easy, very easy to start getting very laser focused on one or two and not the 10. And when you, to your point, four straight in the last four slams, all different types, all different ages, all different types of gaming backgrounds, cultures and races. That to me says, you got more here than you realize if you just continue to get...

Alvin Owusu (01:52:33.294)
so many players it's hard to get a lot of everybody but it's easy very hard to get very late to focus on or two and not ten. And to your point, four straight in the last four times. Yep, absolutely.

Alvin Owusu (01:52:54.286)
That to me says, you got 400 people on stage, you know, just continue to do your part. Continue to do work and evade the problems of society. Absolutely, absolutely. think that's enough words on the internet for us. For in the Grand Slam season, I think we're good.

Torrey Hawkins (01:53:02.152)
to continue to do what you're doing. And if anything, double down on all those efforts, not just one or two.

Torrey Hawkins (01:53:09.684)
Have we reached max is it max max text characters on this one here

Torrey Hawkins (01:53:22.522)
Yeah

Alvin Owusu (01:53:22.734)
And get back to regularly scheduled programming, which you we don't just always talk about ATP and WTA We like to explore all the things that interest us within tennis and we'll continue to do so in between the slams and masters Alvin and so we'll get back to that for a few weeks before Before we get to let's let's say like Toronto Montreal Cincinnati and then leading up to the US Open but I think this is where we put the pin in it Pin. All right, that's three. We're out

Torrey Hawkins (01:53:50.887)
Alright, that's three. We're out.