Ep. 54: Canadian Open w/Dasef

Alvin Owusu (00:01.542)
And welcome to another edition of the Best of Pre podcast. I'm Alvin, I'm joined by Dassef. We're gonna talk a little bit about the ongoings in Canada where Ben, Mr. Ben, Big Ben, we call him Big Ben? We call him Big Ben. Yeah, Big Ben Shelton won the most recent Masters 1000 event. Actually, I say most recent, depends on when you hear this, right? Because Cincinnati just started like.

Dasef (00:17.242)
Big Ben,

Dasef (00:28.611)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (00:28.94)
five minutes ago, almost at the same time they were happening. And then Victoria Mboko, 18 year old Canadian sensation took down her first WTA event, first title on home turf. So that was all awesome. But for those of you who have been here with us for a while, maybe you guys remember Doseph from a previous episode, number two. how you living, man?

Dasef (00:38.49)
Amazing.

Dasef (00:50.946)
Hey, good man, how you doing?

Alvin Owusu (00:53.112)
Pretty good, pretty good. This feels like we're in the dog days of summer here in Atlanta. although it's not too, we got a little chilly weather right now, chilly, in the 70s and now in the 80s, a little reprieve from the heat, but I'm good right now, good right now.

Dasef (00:59.128)
That's right.

Mm-hmm.

Dasef (01:09.687)
Yeah. Yeah, I'm good with all this tennis. mean, I'm enjoying it. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:14.318)
It's nice, it's nice, right? know, I was talking to Anastasia from Groundpass last week and we were talking about how she does, her kind of vibe is like in the morning she gets up, and she's in New York so she'll wake up in the morning, make some coffee, turn on tennis and just kind of get her day started. That's because the vast majority of tennis is happening hours in front of us normally throughout the course of the year. But then when it comes around these parts, it's like, you know, it's like,

Dasef (01:21.603)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (01:38.633)
Right. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (01:44.27)
It's little different now. It's not happening in the middle of the day, which is good for, yeah, yeah, it's good for working. Same time zone, it's good for working, but like now you have like evening tennis, it's on at night. And I know we were texting last night, remember the night before about being up a little too late, watching these men's matches, but it's good practice for the US Open. Yeah, I think so. I think, let me ask you this. okay, so last night, the finals were on.

Dasef (01:44.697)
That's right. It's like we're in the same time zone. Yep.

Dasef (01:54.946)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (02:01.241)
yeah, that's right.

Dasef (02:05.376)
It's all worth it too. It's all worth it. Yeah.

Dasef (02:14.136)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (02:14.418)
Victoria takes down Naomi and we'll get to that. then kind of, think an hour after that match started or so, maybe an hour and half, Ben Shelton takes out Karen Hatchinoff in the men's event. So when you're watching, okay, so we go through this year, this calendar, this season.

Dasef (02:17.785)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (02:37.314)
where it's city to city, tournament to tournament, when you're watching these matches, watching these tournaments specifically in between the slams, like why are you watching?

Dasef (02:51.96)
besides tennis being in my veins, I think... Yeah, yeah, I mean...

Alvin Owusu (02:57.742)
I mean, it's a meta question. It's kind of a meta question.

Dasef (03:03.956)
think I'm rooting for folks like Ben to get that title they haven't gotten yet to see. I feel like there are obviously there are exceptions, but there steps to get into that Grand Slam title. And I feel like you can kind of see the rise of stars. I think Shelton and Boko are like,

representative of that. And I think that the draws are deep. I think the matches are shorter, being two out of three. I think all of that is attractive. I think there's something attractive about three out of five, but like also just being a two out of three match where first rounds are so tough. I think that's interesting. And then I feel like, you know, you also get a preview of maybe what's to come for the US Open for the big bands.

I think all of those reasons are like, wire watch.

Alvin Owusu (04:06.625)
Gotcha, okay, so you mentioned it twice and this is kind what I was getting out of. It's through, it's kind of like it seems like it's through the lens of the next Grand Slam, right? It's like the last thing you mentioned was like kind of ready for like getting ready for the next Slam and then also can you string together, I guess in these types of tournaments you're talking about six matches, can you string together a longer span of matches?

Dasef (04:17.857)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (04:29.548)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (04:33.985)
Whereas like you go to a Grand Slam, you need to win seven if you're ever going to win one of these things. So I'm of in the same vein, right? Because like the tournaments, I mean, they all obviously they carry different point values, right? And if you want to get into the rankings and all that kind of stuff, it matters, it doesn't matter, whatever. But they all, they're all just matches, right? And I like to, like I was telling, talking to, I think I was talking to, I can't remember what I was talking to about this, but it's like.

Dasef (04:50.089)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (04:56.277)
Yeah, right.

Alvin Owusu (05:02.413)
know, tennis players, probably say it here a lot, tennis players, if they had their druthers, would prefer to play well all the time. Like every time they get on a tennis court, there's no ramping it up at a Grand Slam, right? It's just like, no, I wanna play well every single time. It does not cost me more to play well as opposed to playing poorly. So definitely getting informed, leading up to a Grand Slam is, you'd rather be playing well going into New York as opposed to, you know.

Dasef (05:09.589)
yeah, of course. No, no, yeah, yeah.

Dasef (05:19.799)
for sure.

Alvin Owusu (05:31.96)
four weeks before New York. Yeah. But yeah, I think the, you know, the bin part of it, it's, I, it's hard to, okay, there's kind of like two things I think I saw or things I was considering during the tournament. It's like one, this is on the men's side, like one, this is what it looks like, this is what it would look like if Sinner Djokovic and Alcranes didn't exist. Like,

Dasef (05:34.102)
100%. Yeah.

Dasef (05:46.465)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (05:59.786)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (06:00.109)
The rest of the tour is here. I think everyone else was here, short of like, like Bublik and some of those other guys hadn't come over yet, but like this is, this is what tennis would look like if these guys weren't here. So like to your point, like you get these great matches like early, like really early. I think this was about 32, 16 quarter, yeah like Ben played Nakashima in the,

Dasef (06:02.602)
Yep. Yep.

Dasef (06:08.937)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (06:18.487)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (06:26.605)
in the round of 32 or the round of 64 actually, 64, 32, 16 quarters. But like that's a, they played so many times, it's great match. Like six in the third, like hell, had three matches that were at six in the third. Like you do get some really, really good matches. It might be the best form of like packaged tennis like that you're gonna get.

Dasef (06:28.278)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (06:40.95)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (06:48.18)
Yeah, no, for sure. And I feel like, I don't know, like Nakashima you mentioned, Karen you mentioned, got to the finals. Like, I was happy to see those guys playing some good tennis. I don't know. I feel like it's...

maybe the, you know, like you mentioned, center, Akarez, Djokovic kind of helped shine them during the Grand Slams or maybe the media's focused more on them. you know, I've been, I think their games are awesome and I just wanted to see like more of it. So I was like following them too, just to see kind of like how they navigated the tournament. And I feel like they, you know, I don't know, they did well, they represented well.

I think US Open is going to be fun.

Alvin Owusu (07:43.82)
Yeah, what are your, the been of it all, right? So Ben like really, I mean I saw Ben in DC a couple weeks ago when I was there and he didn't have the, can't remember who he lost to in that tournament. I he lost to maybe Davidovic Fikina or maybe it was Demenor. can't remember which one. Demenor, it was Demor. He just kinda, didn't have a great night but played well before that.

Dasef (07:48.956)
Yeah.

Dasef (07:53.151)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (08:01.971)
was given, yeah, I so.

Mm-mm.

Alvin Owusu (08:09.815)
So it was nice to see him come back and like from, you know, first match started playing some good ball in this event. And he is starting to, he's starting to become really bankable in these big events. Like he shows up, like he shows up at Grand Slams for sure. Like he always, he's always doing well in Grand Slams, like quarter finals and better in Grand Slams on across surfaces.

Dasef (08:15.893)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (08:27.447)
yeah. Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (08:37.741)
So he's he's cementing himself as a top 10 player, now moving closer to being a top five player, threatening Taylor Fritz for the top American spot, is pretty, which is pretty, it's pretty insane. I mean, I didn't think his, I'll be the first to admit, I didn't think his top level was top 10, but I have seen like,

Dasef (08:48.374)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (09:03.979)
because I go to a decent amount of offense, over the last few years, I've seen steady progressions in his game, from watching him in person. He's gotten really solid on the backhand side. Obviously the forehand is big, serves big, he's coming forward with intention. Maybe you think different. What do I sense in over here?

Dasef (09:09.492)
Yeah.

Dasef (09:22.207)
Well, first fact check against me, you were right, Davidovic. Yeah, yeah, who he lost to. And for me, I felt like Ben can beat top 10, top five. What always concerned me is also like, think that's his strength, is that he brings a lot of energy. And he plays a style of tennis that requires a lot of energy. But to be fair,

Alvin Owusu (09:27.021)
You'll see me in a bit, okay.

Dasef (09:52.873)
I also used to say the same thing about Rafa. I would say like, God, like how can he keep this up? Like so much energy is required. But you know, obviously he's one of the goats. you know, what do know? And maybe Ben can continue to keep that up too. But I feel like he definitely has the game and I feel like he was so young too, coming out of college.

Alvin Owusu (09:55.831)
Sure, yeah.

Dasef (10:20.84)
that he could make those small progressions. And I saw some of the small progressions that needed to be made when he played Djokovic, I think in the US Open, what, like two years ago? Two or three years ago? Was that?

Alvin Owusu (10:35.053)
That was two years ago. 22, 23? Is it 23? I feel like we watched the match together. That was the phone when he hung up the phone, Djokovic did. Yeah, it wasn't last year, so I guess it had to be 23. Yeah.

Dasef (10:41.012)
I don't know.

Dasef (10:45.371)
Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's No. Yeah. And I was actually texting with a friend of mine who is from Canada. And to use his words, he said that Ben Shelton plays, I think he said he plays a quote, Captain America style tennis. Very, very strong, very powerful, maybe not as much.

Alvin Owusu (11:07.283)
Yes. Yes.

Dasef (11:13.972)
finesse and angle as maybe some of the European, as much touch as some of the European players. But, I mean, all that, I mean, even with all that said, I still thought he could be top 10, which he is now.

Alvin Owusu (11:19.538)
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you, I'm with you.

Alvin Owusu (11:31.277)
Do you think he has another level? Let's say, I know he's right out, I think Monday he'll be ranked six, right? And he's not playing, he's not playing, well is he playing? Did he pull out of Cincinnati? I know Victoria and Naomi both did, so I was kind of expecting that, I mean, because he'd have to play tomorrow or something like that. So I was expecting he would pull out, but let's say he does and he doesn't play the event.

Dasef (11:40.391)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (11:45.795)
I was expecting him to, but I don't know.

Right, yep.

Dasef (11:54.898)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (12:01.45)
So he's right around, he's getting close to top four seed space, which could happen, right? Do you feel like that is, like he could get to the point where he supplants the frit, could he be the number one American? you feel like that's, like this year, this year?

Dasef (12:12.189)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (12:23.57)
think so. I think so. I think you're good.

I think, I mean, I think again, I think he has the weapons. I think he's still, he's on a like the upward trajectory right now. He still has a lot to add to his game. You know, I think working with his dad is have a great relationship and I think they work well together. He listens, still he has that freedom to kind of be himself. And I think that he can do it. You know, I believe in him. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (12:57.612)
Well, let me put it to you this way then. Let put it this way. Cause you mentioned your buddy, your Canadian friend mentioned that he plays like Captain America version of his, which I love that. I'm gonna steal that. I'm gonna write that down actually and use it again many, many a times. I remember going to, I think it was 2020, 2023 Australian Open. And I was there and I went to the Tommy Paul and

Dasef (13:07.016)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (13:13.435)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (13:25.962)
Ben Shelton quarterfinal match and I wore my, I was wearing a Team USA Olympic basketball jersey and I was really trying to create this Team America feel. It didn't work. It didn't work. But Captain America Ben Shelton, that's a thing that could happen because I totally get it, right? When he played Kabali and they were having the conversation at the end of the match and he took his shirt off and I'm like, this dude just looks like he's just this, just like Jack dude, very...

Dasef (13:32.612)
yeah, yeah,

Dasef (13:43.43)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (13:50.79)
Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (13:53.493)
like American, very, mean his swag is off the charts, like Ben is that dude, but the thing that I notice, what is the separator, what is the thing that he does not naturally, that he's not naturally able to do, like when you look at a Alkara's or a Sinner or let's use Djokovic or let's use, I wanna say Zverev, but maybe not, he does not.

Dasef (13:53.703)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (13:58.727)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (14:23.19)
have the ability, he does not manipulate the ball and the court the way that those guys do. And using different spins to not just go bam bam tennis, I think that's the question, are we at the point now where that's, is that ever going to be something that you can get by for seven straight matches in a Grand Slam and get it done?

Dasef (14:28.784)
Yeah.

Dasef (14:50.675)
And yeah, I mean, that's a question. also like, if he doesn't have it naturally, like how much of it can he learn at this stage? Because I also feel like that manipulation of the ball, I don't know, I feel like a lot of European players, lot of South American players learned that when they were young, you know? Like, I don't know. Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (14:59.658)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (15:14.954)
Yeah, they hit it with their hands and like Ben hits it with his arm. Like those guys are hitting with their hands.

Dasef (15:21.008)
Yeah, Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a certain feel that, I mean, I don't know if that's clay courts. I don't know if that's, I don't know, just a teaching style. I don't know what it is, how you develop that, but yeah. don't think, and to be fair, I mean, I don't know many Americans that do have it, you know?

Alvin Owusu (15:47.765)
Right, it feels developmental. Like it is a thing that we spend less time working on here or emphasizing whatever it is that allows you to use your hands as a tennis player. We spend less time doing whatever that is and more time doing other things, building weapons and things of that nature. Yeah, I don't know. And I guess it doesn't really.

Dasef (15:51.142)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (15:55.609)
Yeah.

Dasef (16:02.501)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (16:11.237)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (16:17.484)
to a certain point, it doesn't really matter, right? Because you could say the same thing about Taylor to an extent. Taylor's got a little more feel, a little more, but not a ton.

Dasef (16:32.401)
Yeah, what's always surprising for me with Taylor is and again, I've never seen him play in real life So I don't know but the perceived

lack of athleticism compared to other players. And it's mainly movement related. Like Ben is super athletic, but I don't get that same feel when I'm watching Fritz. But he's obviously, obviously damn good tennis player. He wouldn't have been the only American if he wasn't so.

Alvin Owusu (16:56.118)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (17:10.098)
Right, right. He finaled a Grand Slam. He finaled US Open. He did do that, he did that. It's interesting, it feels like the thing with Taylor, and I saw this, I've seen Taylor play a time or two in person, but last year at the ATP Tour Finals when he was playing center, I remember watching this match, I actually in Raleigh, North Carolina at a friend's house watching this match.

Dasef (17:14.576)
Right. Right.

Dasef (17:32.11)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (17:39.23)
And I remember specifically seeing like they have this really nice like kind of like low, low baseline angle that you could watch from. And it was like watching a game of pong. You remember that old game, pong on Atari? It's like they were doing the same things, but you could see the slight advantage that one player had in lateral movement. And like once,

Dasef (17:47.194)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (17:53.252)
Yeah, yep.

Dasef (18:05.572)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (18:08.213)
there was a glint of Taylor not being able to recover back to a neutral position that he wanted to recover to. He was a little behind in the point. And then it was like, okay, game over. This point's gonna be over in two shots. And that is the top end of his limitation, I think, from a physical standpoint, is it is his lateral movement. But that could net out to be somewhere at three or four in the world.

Dasef (18:14.318)
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yep. Yep.

Dasef (18:29.818)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (18:35.054)
Yeah, right, I know, it's like, yeah, you're so terrible. Yeah, yeah, you're only three in the world, it's like so bad.

Alvin Owusu (18:36.587)
Okay. Cool trick. Right. We're split. But I mean, we talk about this in the lens of like winning Grand Slams, like then that's what we're talking about. These small margins, very small margins.

Dasef (18:48.196)
Yeah, it's really high.

Yep. I mean, and Taylor, I one thing that I've, I feel like I kind of felt it and got little bits and pieces of it, but I think it's been coming out a little bit more through some interviews and commentators has been talking about is his tennis IQ and like how he studies the game. And I think that make it, I mean, it's, you know, it's like tennis is like a control panel. You have all these knobs and things you can.

Alvin Owusu (19:10.281)
So s- my god. So s- s- Yeah.

Dasef (19:19.053)
move and change and make up for. And I think his tennis IQ is incredible and that maybe offset some of the maybe perceived lack of athleticism that I see.

Alvin Owusu (19:28.669)
Yeah, think, I feel like that's been a, that has been a view that's been circulating over the last, would say three months. Like, he gets into these press conferences and people ask him questions and he just starts talking and going. And like his tennis IQ is extremely high, extremely high. But his dad's also a coach, right? So he's been doing this for a while. Not to say that's the end all be all, but he does think tennis at an extremely high level, which.

Dasef (19:35.992)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (19:39.858)
Yeah.

Dasef (19:46.905)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (19:57.28)
can oftentimes offset a lot of, you know, maybe, I'm not gonna say deficiencies, but like, is also, it's also a weapon.

Dasef (20:05.742)
Yeah, and it seems so terrible to call it deficiency or lack of athleticism. It sounds so bad, it's like you said, when we're comparing it to the top of the pyramid, winning Grand Slams, Alcares Center, it's unfair, but that's how it comes out. And by the way, think Fritz's mom was a pro also.

Alvin Owusu (20:23.935)
Yeah, I'm with you.

Alvin Owusu (20:29.835)
There you go. more. he's, it's, think tennis is in his blood.

Dasef (20:34.901)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say speaking of coaching to there was a moment. I need to go back and watch this with the first set when Shelton's playing Karen, catching off it was his dad gave him some instructions. I think he told them to move up a little bit further in the court. And I I but and I need to go back and listen to it but I feel like those like jewels are super important for for winning and

I think it may be something you can only get if you've played out there on tour at that level, where you pick up on those small pieces that will get you across the finish line. So speaking of tennis IQ, think Shelton's dad is on top of it.

Alvin Owusu (21:16.297)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (21:22.089)
Yeah, that's an interesting way to look at it too, like, cause I've also noticed like when they're, so when I went to DC, there were a couple of matches where on the grandstand court, I sat right behind the coaches box, the coaches, the players box. So the first one would have been, Rebecca Mboko when they played in DC, I was sitting right behind Elena's coach.

Dasef (21:38.016)
huh.

Dasef (21:50.764)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (21:51.276)
was six feet away from him. So the interactions between the players, the player, the coach, you're right there. And then I think the next day I sat behind Cam Norrie's coach. Same court, I'm like today I'm gonna sit on that side. And I was like of all the places you could sit, behind the baseline is the place to go, right? As close as you can. But I'm like well, if I can, if I'm allowed to sit right next to these guys, I'm gonna sit right next to them and just kinda see what's going on here.

Dasef (21:58.018)
Yeah.

huh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (22:17.665)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (22:18.633)
the communication style is so, it's different from player to player. So different and I've been around Ben and Brian, like around the practice course, but it seems like they have this kind of symbiotic relationship. Obviously it's very like the paternal thing, but they're going through it together. Like they're going through it together and the player coach thing, it seems like they're all kind of,

Dasef (22:22.743)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I imagine.

Dasef (22:29.453)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (22:34.923)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

But still, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (22:48.415)
to some level, they're in the match together. Like, big point, to your, like fist pump to your box, like we are doing this. It's a team effort, but then also like I was just like when you mentioned the part about moving up on the return, like Brian giving that advice to Ben, it's also like from a former player now coach, like it could also be like I want to know what this looks like, so.

Dasef (22:51.683)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (22:56.622)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a team effort and individuals for it.

Dasef (23:05.869)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (23:17.725)
if we find ourselves in this position again later on the match, I know what Karen's gonna do and I know how Ben can react to it. So it's like, we're trying all the things out here, but you're trying things on the court, I'm trying, I wanna see you try some things so we, if we get deep into this match and they end up going to a break in the third, we know what's gonna work. We know where our opportunities are.

Dasef (23:20.738)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (23:26.552)
Yep. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Dasef (23:36.728)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, here.

It's like you're probing the perimeter, you're testing to see like where's a possible weakness.

Alvin Owusu (23:44.765)
Yeah

Yeah, like it's also very like when you're thinking about it like that, like the tennis is, it's fun to watch on TV, it's entertaining, but it's also very like when you let yourself get down to these these little things, like these little parts of the chess match, I find it to be super, super, I don't know, that's the part that's entertaining to me.

Dasef (23:57.57)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (24:02.669)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (24:11.233)
I, yeah, yeah, no. So you mentioned, you mentioned Cam Norrie and I don't want to like take us off track too far, but I just had a thought. Okay. Okay. All right. do you feel like, foreign players who come and play American college tennis, then make it to the pros, do they have that manipulation of the ball ability? Do they hit with their hands or like, is it, you know, and when you said Cam Norrie, I think you play like in Texas or somewhere, right? Like,

Alvin Owusu (24:17.885)
No, we're not on track. There's no track. There's no track. We can talk with everyone.

Alvin Owusu (24:40.939)
TCU, yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah.

Dasef (24:41.366)
College, yeah, yeah. I'm thinking about some other players too, like, do they bring with them that manipulation of the ball that we see from players who didn't go to college, like Alcares or Center, or do they lose it when going through the American college program, or does it like stay with them like throughout? I don't know, I'm just thinking about that. I'm trying to think of other players who have gone through.

American College Tennis.

Alvin Owusu (25:12.373)
Well, it's probably more prevalent on the men's side, right? There's a little more uniformity in the women's game, regardless of where you're playing. it's a little more so, a little more so. But on the men's side, I'm trying to think about the foreign players that have come, played college tennis, and then gone on to the pro tour and then have shown up.

Dasef (25:15.584)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (25:19.773)
Yeah, true.

Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (25:38.133)
like the top 100 are regularly playing in these Masters 1000 events and Grand Slams, right? Nuno Borges, he played at Mississippi State for a hot minute. And I would say that he is a ball manipulator. Like he is, yeah, he is a clay court player, more or less. A guy that is obviously comfortable on clay using spins, but then was able to.

Dasef (25:46.718)
huh.

Alvin Owusu (26:07.55)
do quite well in his one year of SEC tennis and then turns pro and he's now a top 50 player. think he's top 50, if not he's really close. It'll be interesting to see. I think so though.

Dasef (26:19.126)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, just a thought. Something to observe in the future.

Alvin Owusu (26:24.904)
Yeah, it's hard to remember at this point because college tennis is becoming such a viable path for players to go to the pro tour. like, well, who played college tennis? There's so many of them now that you don't even know which ones actually played in college. There's so many. Jacob Fernley is a, he played at TCU as well. Yeah, he's TCU as well. Different years, but also at TCU.

Dasef (26:28.416)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (26:43.049)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Dasef (26:50.228)
okay. I don't know. Well.

Alvin Owusu (26:54.566)
shouts to coach Dave Rodity. don't know if he listens to the podcast, but you did a great job out there coach. yeah, I think that's, that's yeah, that's an interesting question.

Dasef (27:04.32)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I'll think about it as we go through, like, make it through the US Open and see. No, not this year. We're traveling this year, but I am going to the Labor Cup this year. Just by chance, I'm going to be out there when it's happening. So I bought a ticket. I was like, go in.

Alvin Owusu (27:12.83)
Are you going this year?

Alvin Owusu (27:23.818)
Ooh, in San Francisco.

Alvin Owusu (27:33.492)
There you go. That's what I like to hear. Are they playing at the Chase Center?

Dasef (27:34.579)
Yeah, yeah, going solo, I mean, I'll be in San Francisco with Ben. Yes, yeah, I think that's what it is. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, I'm gonna experience the European style, indoor, dark, what do call it, strobe lights, spotlight months in his court style tennis.

Alvin Owusu (27:41.482)
Okay, yeah. That's awesome. I, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (27:55.339)
Yeah, it's oh my god, it's a joke. It's a joke. I don't know if they do that I'm curious to hear your feedback and I'll actually we'll have you on the pod post labor I think I think Anastasia is gonna go as well. So maybe it'll be interesting here. You're both of your your takes on the labor cup I'm gonna be in Africa at that point. So I can't go this year Yeah, but that's wild. Yeah, don't I'm curious to see if they'd go full

Dasef (28:15.116)
yeah, nice.

Alvin Owusu (28:22.928)
European with the strobe lights of the DJ the whole deal Cuz right Europe where it's in it's in California

Dasef (28:25.887)
We'll see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. think, right, right. I think Shelton's gonna play that too, right? I think so. So maybe I can give a chance to see him finally up close.

Alvin Owusu (28:33.63)
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (28:38.6)
Yeah, it's okay, okay. Okay, I think we're good on the men's side. It's just kind of like, in the back of my mind, it's almost like death and taxes. It's like, yeah, this is nice, but like, center and Alcaraz aren't here. But it's good. It was really nice to see Ben close out these matches.

Dasef (28:55.852)
Hahaha

Dasef (29:04.884)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (29:05.136)
Showing his medal like winning three matches in third set tiebreakers En route to the end in the final as well. Like that's as big

Dasef (29:15.048)
Yeah, I was worried about how much gas he had left in the tank, but he did it. So was pretty impressive.

Alvin Owusu (29:20.074)
Yeah, I mean, yeah, he was looking, he's looking a little dead in the middle of the, it was the middle of the second set last night. But yeah, we'll take it. We'll take it. On the women's side, actually before we go to the women's side, Coco Golf, you know, after her early exit in the tournament was able to bag a doubles championship there with McCartney Kessler. So that's cool. That's cool.

Dasef (29:24.808)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dasef (29:40.479)
I saw. Yep. Yep. Yeah. That's not nothing. That's something.

Alvin Owusu (29:47.627)
Yeah, I'm going home with something. I'm leaving here with something. I'm gonna win something. But yeah, exactly, exactly. So yeah, that was cool. That's neat, that's neat. Okay, so the women's side. Changing cities, changing events. Victoria Boko, know, just kind of a level set. She hits the scene.

Dasef (29:51.562)
Classic. Classic Denzel. Yeah.

Dasef (30:08.04)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (30:16.86)
right before French open, think, makes some noise there, qualifies, wins like two matches, I believe. I might be wrong, it could have been two or three, I don't remember. And it was like, this young black lady from Canada is, she's gonna be somebody. And then, she's won a lot of matches this year, just in general, like won a lot on the ITF circuit, then made her way onto the main tour, qualifiers, wild cards, she gets a wild card into this event.

Dasef (30:34.196)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (30:46.866)
And then just like goes on a hell of a run, hell of a run. Takes out Kennan in straights, takes out Coco in straights, beats for back in a six in the third, beats Osaka six one in the third. That's four wins over four former Grand Slam champions in a week's time on your, you know, with your whole nation watching and pulling for you. That's pretty cool. Like that doesn't suck.

Dasef (31:11.242)
It's insane. It's insane. Yeah, I think I saw something today that said like the youngest female player to do it since Serena Williams, I think. Yeah, since it was like 1999 or something, Serena held a record since then. But yeah, one thing I gotta say, one thing I love about her is that she has such a, I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm biased because

Alvin Owusu (31:22.986)
That makes sense. Yeah, that checks.

Alvin Owusu (31:28.137)
Yeah.

Dasef (31:41.577)
was a little bit, I've been told I was a little bit like that when I played Tennessee, but she had such a calm demeanor on the court. Like she is just like, I don't know, like she's not, she's very mature. Like just not getting too rattled, very like even, cute, like seems like she's been there before, but I just love her attitude.

Alvin Owusu (32:04.283)
Yeah, I'm with you. Yes, you were very even keeled. You are still very even keeled. That's very frustrating. But when I saw her play in DC, when she played Elena in DC, she got, know, Elena blitzed her early in the first set. And I saw her kind of like, she got a little frustrated, like typical leg smack. And then she's telling herself like, find some shape, find some shape. And like,

that was about as demonstrative as she got. She seems very comfortable in competition, which is, that's very much so beyond her. I imagine, I've never played in front of that many people, but it almost seems like maybe the transfer of, you go from a court where no one's watching you play to a national event where some people are watching you play, and then a grandstand court. Maybe it just,

Dasef (32:35.398)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (32:39.538)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (32:47.814)
Right, yep.

Alvin Owusu (33:02.525)
doesn't feel that much different and then you go to a big stadium and it's like, okay, whatever, it's fine. Although I've heard Arthur Ashe Stadium is a whole different kind of beast, but yeah, she doesn't seem impacted by any of this at all. As a player, I have my thoughts on Victoria and where she is right now and what I think she does well. What's your read on her? What do you like? What do you?

Dasef (33:04.594)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (33:15.048)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (33:22.663)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (33:31.763)
concerned about if there are concerns. Just kind of what's your, what's your, what's your tennis rate there?

Dasef (33:37.64)
I mean, honestly right now I feel like it's, for me it's a little bit too early to tell because I, like, I mean even with the match with Naomi, I felt like we didn't really see the real her until later in the match. Like she needed to in a little bit. So I kinda wanna see her with.

more of these matches under her belt so we can kind of see where like kind of where her baseline is. It's almost, you know, when you see players like go on like crazy runs, I think you need to like let it breathe a little bit and then like go back and then check them out again to kind of see where they actually are because I don't know if we can get a true sense of where she is right now. But I don't know. What do you, what do you think?

What do you see? Like some technical aspects or mental?

Alvin Owusu (34:40.988)
There's one technical piece, like the forehand bothers me. It bothers me in that she has this thing where she likes to pull her head off on forehands pretty consistently. And it seems to be a, what I think, and I have to ask Tori about this, I think it is a function of she gets a little too close to the ball on the forehand side. And so when she pulls off, she's trying to create space, right?

Dasef (34:46.353)
Duh-huh.

Dasef (35:02.724)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (35:06.217)
And it becomes an issue when players bring pace to that side. And I noticed it, I noticed it, yeah, and it almost comes off like with side spin. Yeah. And it's like, I would like to see just a little more. This is kind of, it's not necessarily Nick Picky, like it did, there were some situations in which it did break down because she wasn't able to provide, she was not able to bring true top spin, safe top spin.

Dasef (35:09.927)
huh. Is this when she directs the ball like out wide? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dasef (35:33.595)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (35:34.932)
to get herself out of, like when she was under fire and some of those high intensity rallies. Like I saw it against Elena in DC, it's like okay, that thing is, she's going to struggle on that side until she gets some, like gets a little more space over there and you have to think about it like she's 18, right? She is not a fully formed tennis player yet. Like her peak is seven, eight years away from her right now. So like we got time. Like this is a,

Dasef (35:52.551)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (36:00.975)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (36:04.839)
this is something that she will work through, have no reservations about that. The one thing that, and this is something that Taylor Fritz said about Carlos that I thought was very insightful and one of those things that you don't really, that you maybe underestimate with these great players. He said that Carlos Alcarez, the adjustments that he makes during a match are like,

Dasef (36:10.681)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (36:31.631)
next level like he he adjusts he processes and adjusts in match. He said better than maybe anyone else on the tour. Yeah. So one of the things I saw Victoria do is make the adjustment of like, okay, these these women are hitting big or back of his hitting big Osaka's hitting big. She backed up to give herself more space because neither one of those players are really going to use like

Dasef (36:33.222)
Hmm.

I I heard that, Yeah, yep.

Dasef (36:50.672)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (36:56.112)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (37:02.479)
angles per se to pull her off the court. And she's fast enough to like make the court feel kind of small. Like you're not gonna hit it through her. She moves extremely well and is able to create high ball quality like while moving from side to side. Right, it's not like she's just like running around scrapping. She's running around and like hitting open stance and like giving like coming back with really high quality shots. like.

Dasef (37:05.092)
Right.

Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. Yep.

Dasef (37:20.922)
Yeah, yeah.

Dasef (37:25.584)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (37:30.565)
she almost went into this like, faux defensive position against both women to get herself back into the match. like, you could kind of see it happening. like, I'm just gonna let you beat yourself, because I don't think you have what it takes to actually close these points out.

Dasef (37:35.962)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dasef (37:48.878)
A little bit of a counter punch, like positioning.

Alvin Owusu (37:53.881)
Yeah, true a true high level counterpuncher. Yeah, but then like she can also like rip that back into the line like nobody's business to.

Dasef (37:57.456)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (38:03.076)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You remember that point where Naomi thought it was a double bounce, but she actually got to the ball. I think her, I mean, it seems like her speed is even surprising to some, maybe some players on court with her. But she's, like you said, she's obviously a great mover. So, and you have to be, I mean, like when Coco is counter punching, like she has to be able to speed around that court and get those balls. So.

Alvin Owusu (38:30.525)
Yeah.

Dasef (38:32.058)
You know, it's also gonna be interesting to see how players adjust to just getting to know her game. That's another thing, when you're young and when you're new, you kind of have a little bit of element of surprise. When you stick around for a while, what's that? Right around? Yeah, I mean, right, right, right. But like, you know, that's like a testament to someone like Jokovic. It's like everyone's diagnosed and analyzed and...

Alvin Owusu (38:46.291)
Run around and hit balls.

Just run around and hit balls. Like just run and hit, run and hit.

Dasef (39:00.782)
whatever for his game for however long he's been playing and it's still difficult to defeat him. That's insane. So yeah, let's see what happens over the next like couple of years with Vicky and see if she was, see if she's so I feel like she has a promising career though. She has what it takes.

Alvin Owusu (39:22.097)
Yeah, mean, there's like if you're gonna build a player, right? Like you want them, like there's the mental aspect that you'd love to have, right? Like just calm and to pressure. Can't handle these moments and she checks that box, right? You want a fantastic mover, like she's there. She's big and strong, like she hits a good ball, know, side spin sometimes in the forehand, like that's fixable and that forehand will just get better and better.

Dasef (39:30.425)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dasef (39:36.623)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dasef (39:48.047)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (39:49.459)
But her backend, like her backend specifically down the line is world class, like world class. Serve, will get better as she gets older and gets stronger. Like again, she's 18, so there's lots of time to improve that. and the, there's like, you know, kind of like a lot of, like a lot of women on the tour, like not all that comfortable at net. Like I don't, I don't recall like her hitting any volleys.

Dasef (39:52.847)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (39:59.375)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (40:15.033)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (40:19.288)
And like kind of interesting like, you know, to the Naomi of it, like in that match, I saw like she found Victoria found Naomi's like weakness. And like it was like, OK, if I get that ball, there was lots of instances where she was like, I'm going to I'm going to hit a low slice forehand and make Naomi come forward and try to finish points at the net. like I don't know, like Naomi's just like, I'm not coming forward. I'll hit that ball.

Dasef (40:23.759)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (40:31.828)
huh.

Dasef (40:40.548)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (40:47.424)
Yeah, right, right.

Alvin Owusu (40:48.208)
And then go back and it was like, my God, is she really hitting balls from the service line and going back to the baseline? This is this is happening in 2025 and professional tennis. But it was like it was like a little like it was like Victoria found a wound, right? A little a little weakness there. And then she's like, OK, I'm going to rip that cut open and then I'm going to pour some like diamond kosher salt in it and rub it in there like I'm going to I'm going to make this bad. This is going to be bad. And like she broke Naomi, like she broke her soul.

Dasef (40:53.592)
Backwards, Mm-hmm, yep.

Dasef (41:02.308)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (41:17.86)
I feel like Naomi could have handled, I mean, again, it was easy for me to say sit down on the sideline, but I feel like...

Alvin Owusu (41:29.158)
No, no, talk me through it because I feel like I know where you're going and I think I'm right there with you.

Dasef (41:33.39)
Like I feel like mentally...

first set I felt like she was big sis. She was like, I've been here before, everything's under control. And I think under a little bit of pressure, the mental piece cracked a little bit. And I, sorry, I see my screen says reconnected. I don't know if you lost me or not.

Alvin Owusu (42:01.052)
No, you're good. No, you're good.

Dasef (42:01.975)
Okay, okay. But I feel like, I don't know Naomi's like thought process. I'm not sure what's going on inside her. I don't know if her expectations are just so high and that she's not hitting it exactly like she wants to. And so she gets down on herself, but I feel like if she had been in a better like mental state, she could have recovered.

Alvin Owusu (00:00.782)
Yeah, so you were saying that, okay, so Naomi, in the first set, was like, her mindset seemed like, I've got this, I'm more experienced, I've been here, big sis, little sis, and guess she even found out before the match that Victoria, she used to look like, she was her idol when Victoria was younger, like five years ago when she was like 13. And Naomi, that girl, was that woman?

Dasef (00:11.388)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Dasef (00:19.024)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (00:25.766)
Yeah.

Dasef (00:29.157)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (00:29.914)
doing things like winning Grand Slams and whatnot. So, but what did you see in that? What did you see in the second set? When did it seem to turn?

Dasef (00:32.602)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (00:39.439)
I think it turned, if I remember incorrectly, I feel like it was around five, whatever the score was, five one, five two, second set. Almost felt like Naomi tanked it, like tanked that last game or something. Like her demeanor completely changed and I felt like she just started like, I don't know, I couldn't tell if she was giving up completely or if she was just trying to get through.

that set so she can start fresh the third set. But when she started the third set, I didn't feel that energy, like she was there to compete. yeah, think it was even actually, maybe even before 5-2, I think she started serving faster. She wouldn't, like I think she took like 20 seconds or maybe like 10 seconds or something in between each serve when she was on serve. And the commentators even mentioned it and they were like, look at Naomi, she's not...

Yeah, she's not giving Vicky any time. She's just like kind of speeding up the play. And I feel like, I don't know, I just feel like she was kind of so frustrated. She couldn't get out of her own head to actually compete.

Alvin Owusu (01:52.686)
Yeah, like, okay, so I remember like it was two all of the second set and I had to go do something with the kids. came back and it was like five two and I was like, what happened? And Naomi, I was like, she looked like she was taking. I'm like, what is, what is going on? And then, so she, she breaks Vicky at five two and then she holds at five three and like she was serving really fast, but she had a really strong service game.

Dasef (02:02.958)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Dasef (02:13.552)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (02:18.255)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (02:22.335)
and then they go to switch sides on the changeover and I'm like, okay. And then the commentator's talking about like, know, name is broken four times in this set. And I'm like, okay, that's not great. But you're right there. It's still four, five. Like you're down a break in this young woman who now has to serve out this set. Why are you not just like, you're a champion. maybe that just kind of shows like how far

Dasef (02:33.977)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (02:38.17)
Yep. Yep.

Dasef (02:49.389)
Yeah

Alvin Owusu (02:51.521)
Like what, she is very far removed from winning Grand Slams. she has not won one recently. She is not that person anymore and maybe she's, as much as she tries to exude that she's still that person, like there could be those demons that she's still fighting of like, do I even think I'm still that person? Because she was there, she was there. Like she was there. I think she was up 30 love in that game too.

Dasef (02:54.937)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (03:10.615)
huh. mean, yeah. That's, I mean, I feel, I mean, I don't know for sure, but I feel like she kind of psyched herself out. I don't know. Like I feel like she could have competed better and given herself a higher chance at winning. And I feel like she kind of got down on herself and kind of gave up on herself a little bit. And it makes me sad actually, because I feel like...

She has way more potential than she showed us she thinks she has.

That makes sense. It's like, we're rooting, know, Tyra Banks meme. Like, we were rooting for you. Like, feel like she, like, yeah. So.

Alvin Owusu (03:54.378)
Yes, I hear you. yes, yes, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (04:03.103)
Right, yeah, like...

Alvin Owusu (04:07.937)
And like, that's the thing. Like you try to put yourself like as former, we play the game. And so like, you know, there are times in matches when you're just like, it matches ebb and flow, right? You feel certain ways like throughout the course of a match and tennis matches are chaotic. Like we're not playing drop and hit games. We're not hitting cross-court. Like it is a roller coaster and you just gotta hold on and.

Dasef (04:22.158)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.

Yep, for sure. Yep, emotional. Nope.

Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (04:35.505)
as an experienced player, would think, you would expect her to go, I know that this is a roller coaster and I've just gotta get, I can't turn a bad couple games into a bad set, into a bad hour, which it just felt like she just like let go of the rope when she was still in the match.

Dasef (04:45.708)
Right. Yeah. Yep.

Dasef (04:55.523)
That's, I think what you just said, she has experience to know that this is kind how it can go. And so I expected that experience to kick in.

Alvin Owusu (05:00.767)
Yeah. And like, yeah, yeah. And like she did, she seemed like she just wasn't, she wanted to win, but maybe she wasn't up for the fight. Cause when it was going well, she was bouncing fist pump. Like she was, she was fully engaged and looked like she was going to get this thing. And then it got tough. And she just like, she checked.

Dasef (05:08.814)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (05:12.491)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dasef (05:22.018)
Like, is tennis harder for her now and she expects it to be easier? Easier or easy like it was five years ago for her? Like, it, you know, like has her, you know, has things changed? Has her body changed? Has the game changed? And her expectations are still from 2020 and not like, hey, no matter what I expect, I still need to go out there and compete.

Alvin Owusu (05:32.543)
I'm in.

Alvin Owusu (05:53.006)
Right, I don't know. There's something about being on the other end of this thing when you're like Victoria, like you're 18, 19, you don't know any better. Your whole career's in front of you, all these experiences are in front of you. Versus being on the other side of that when you've done everything. You are a global icon. I often go, what is she even playing for? I'm gonna say she's done everything. It's odd, she's never been number one in the world.

Dasef (06:01.922)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (06:11.458)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dasef (06:16.387)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (06:24.631)
She's only won three tournaments outside of the four grand slam she's won. Like it's kind of wild when think about it. Like, like four, it like four. Like she won, Yeah. Someone's won four grand slams. You would imagine they would have been one in the world at some point, but like outside of those, I mentioned this in a previous public outside of her four grand slams that she won in a three year period, she's only won three other tournaments.

Dasef (06:29.687)
What, how high she gotten ranking wise? Four, okay. Wow, yeah, that's surprising. You would think she would have been, yeah.

Yeah, at some point. Yep.

Dasef (06:52.671)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (06:53.163)
That is not a resume of the number one player in the world. You didn't win 300 % a year to be number one in the world.

Dasef (06:57.368)
It's true. It's, yeah, it's odd.

Alvin Owusu (07:01.165)
It's odd. So what is Naomi Osaka? Like, what is she?

Dasef (07:02.465)
What's up with that?

Dasef (07:08.407)
She's in her own lane, I guess. Because there hasn't been anyone that we can compare to that has that type of record, Not that I know of.

Alvin Owusu (07:19.321)
I mean, there have been people who have won one Grand Slam. like, yeah, you don't, like, yeah, like your, like your Amaranta Condos, like your Bianca Andrescu's, even like Barbara Krachikova. I've gotten between pronunciations on her name. Like someone, it's like, I want to say Krachikova, but then I've heard Krachikova, and then I get in the middle, and then I go, Krachikov, I don't know how to, like, I don't know who she is.

Dasef (07:22.42)
Right, yeah. Yeah.

Dasef (07:28.312)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dasef (07:36.629)
huh.

Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh huh. Me too.

Alvin Owusu (07:47.149)
But she's won two Grand Slams in singles and she's never been one of the world, right? So like, it's not unheard of, but she won four. Like, she won four Grand Slams. Huh.

Dasef (07:49.281)
Yep.

Dasef (07:57.001)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I think it was last year when I learned that Pugula hadn't won a professional tennis tournament ever until like, was it Pugula? Until last year when she won, was it DC? And I was like, what? That can't be right. And I was like, that is crazy. She was like, she's like.

Alvin Owusu (08:19.014)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dasef (08:24.684)
She's been like probably as high as what, four in the world or something.

Alvin Owusu (08:27.38)
Yeah, maybe even three. Like she's been a top five player for the last like four years.

Dasef (08:29.097)
And yeah.

And they're like, oh yeah, this is their first WTA win. like, that can't be right. Yeah, so who knows? I don't know. No analysis on that one.

Alvin Owusu (08:37.174)
That's wild. That's wild.

It's the women's, the women's game, women's game is gnarly, but like, yeah, like it's interesting. Like, like you went for girl slams. You're out of, you're obviously going to be in the hall of fame, but like, what do we make of Naomi's career? And when I, and when I put it to you like that, then what does that change? What you actually expect of her.

Dasef (08:59.788)
Well...

Me? No, I expect great things from Osaka. I see objectively the skills, the talent. I was concerned when she said that if she doesn't have the year that she wants to have, she's thinking about retirement. For me, I felt like a little bit of...

Alvin Owusu (09:18.71)
Sure, yeah.

Dasef (09:27.979)
I don't know, a little bit of doubt was like sinking in or slipping into her mental. And I would have preferred for her to say like, let's take it one tournament at a time. And then like, let's evaluate it at the of the year instead of like already thinking about like, well, this doesn't go well on retiring. And we're like, no, no, no. And so it kind of just, I don't know where her mental.

Alvin Owusu (09:51.09)
Yeah, yeah, that would have been ideal.

Dasef (09:57.771)
space where she is mentally and you know I mean I don't you know it's not I think there's a lot of things going on I think traveling a lot being away from your kids a lot I think trying to figure out what you value what you want to sacrifice I think probably all those things are happening

And I think that has to be resolved before she can play some really good tennis.

Alvin Owusu (10:27.094)
But I mean, well, let's look at it though. She is playing good tennis. And even when she lost to Imurata Kano in DC, after that match, she's like, yeah, feel fine. I like the direction we're going right now. I know what I need to do. I like where my game's at. And then turns around, six matches. I think probably six matches. Gets to the finals within one set of winning this thing. And she was right there.

Dasef (10:31.083)
you

Alvin Owusu (10:55.53)
She was right there. So I would say her tennis is her tennis specifically, like she's moving well. I felt like in this, in this tournament versus DC, I felt like she is seems like she's reading the ball off of the racket better. Like she seems a little earlier, which allows her to create a little more shape in high tempo rallies, which I feel like what I've seen this year is like she gets into these bang bang rallies and then she gets behind a little bit and then she ends up

Dasef (11:11.647)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (11:25.324)
She's up with errors in the net a lot. I saw there's a level of safety that I saw in her ball this week that felt new. So I'm gonna go on the other side of fence and say I think she's playing fine. That mental piece of connecting the, okay, I am playing fine at large. So if I have a dip within a match, that's fine. I can.

Dasef (11:27.571)
Uh-huh.

Dasef (11:31.915)
Mm.

Dasef (11:35.37)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (11:40.328)
huh.

Alvin Owusu (11:54.187)
I could get it back and maybe something else happened. I don't know. Maybe she had a panic attack.

Dasef (11:54.975)
Get out of it.

Alvin Owusu (12:01.878)
Don't know. Because it was pretty stark.

Dasef (12:02.379)
Yeah, yeah, but we but we all saw yeah, we all saw a demeanor body language change like we all What's driving it? We're not coach Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's I'm glad you mentioned that was other thing I was gonna say I mean we can't I mean Boko playing at home And having the crowd behind her Little right reminded me a little bit of Cocoa versus sabalinka at US Open have a crowd like really

Alvin Owusu (12:09.052)
Yeah, crying under the towel. Like did the crowd get to her?

Alvin Owusu (12:29.416)
Right, right, yeah.

Dasef (12:32.924)
influence that match. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (12:34.796)
Yeah, and that's rare. You don't get that often where like, yeah, it's almost like a sliding doors kind of moment where, I like the symbolic part of Jeannie Bouchard, the last great female. I think we forget how good Jeannie was for a time. Jeannie was top five material. But her saying goodbye.

Dasef (12:51.306)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (12:55.614)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (13:03.02)
to the Canadian people and then the Canadian people seeing someone else saying hello. I thought that was beautiful. But yeah, it's gotta be tough. It's like damn near like a Davis Cup match, which is like, what are we doing? This is a Masters 1000.

Dasef (13:06.783)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (13:15.146)
Yeah.

Yep, no, agree.

Alvin Owusu (13:21.44)
Yeah, I'm curious to see what, I don't know if she's had any public comments. She probably hasn't, I just haven't seen them of like what happened out there, because that was strange.

Dasef (13:30.994)
Yeah, no, I haven't seen it. didn't watch her press conference. did see where she... And to me, sounded like classic Naomi. Like her... This afternoon, she released a statement saying, like, congratulations to Vicki. She was like, I'm sorry. I congratulate you doing the speech. She was like, I didn't want to have another moment like I had last time. I think where, I don't know if you remember that, kind of went viral a little bit where she asked the player what she likes to be called. And she was like, Jennifer, Jenny, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (13:57.766)
the Jen, the Jennifer Jen Brady. Thank you.

Dasef (13:59.594)
Yeah, yeah that moment and then she had another moment where when she was doing a speech so she was like I don't want to have one of those moments so she was like I just wanted to cut it short and you know but But yeah, we'll see if she I'll go and check out that press conference to see if she talks about a little bit

Alvin Owusu (14:16.798)
Yeah, just kind of like overarching question. Men's tennis versus women's tennis. Where are you leaning these days as a fan?

Dasef (14:30.25)
Do I have to pick one?

Alvin Owusu (14:34.348)
Not pick one, like I'll say, like I find that if I had to, you know, pull stats from my TC Plus account, it's like, I'm probably watching more women's tennis. Like if both are odd, I'm probably picking WTA matches more frequently than ATP matches right now. Cause I just feel like there's so many, like one through like 30 is littered with

Dasef (14:54.014)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (15:04.78)
players that could win the tournament. Like literally could win the tournament. It may be even like one through 15, like the top 16 seeds you would like, like could win any tournament. The number one player in the world right now, Harina Sabalinka has not won a Grand Slam this year, right? Okay. A, you know, obviously Madison and then who she listed in the French, Coco.

Dasef (15:07.196)
Uh-huh. No, for sure.

Dasef (15:22.41)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (15:34.11)
Ega, it's, but you also had some players kind of pop up out of, not necessarily out of nowhere, but like Mazik, he's making the finals, like winning the Australian Open, like didn't have that one on anyone's bingo card, right? Like Amanda Anasamova popping up to the, finaling Wimbledon, huh, what? Like, so I feel, but like there's these matchups that happen early and often on the women's side that keep it so interesting. Like I can't.

Dasef (15:41.46)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (15:50.609)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dasef (16:00.455)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (16:01.405)
I can't stop watching it's like every week it's like, like Amanda Anasso is playing against like Barbara Krachikova in the second round of a tournament. like, okay, gotcha. I'm here for that.

Dasef (16:06.32)
Yeah.

Dasef (16:15.688)
Yeah, I feel like I watch maybe like all of the women's tournament and maybe like certain matches of the men. But so I can probably consume more WTA. But then there's some matchups for the men that I love watching. And then also like, you know, Big Ben is, you know, box office. I watch him a lot.

Alvin Owusu (16:23.059)
Right? Yeah.

Dasef (16:43.994)
Obviously, if you see a center Alcares match, watching. I'm wondering if it'll ever get boring, if people will ever get tired of seeing them in the finals playing against each other. At the moment, no.

Alvin Owusu (16:48.373)
Sure, sure, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (16:53.607)
I don't, man, it's, I've raised that question before, it's like, the brand of tennis, the type of tennis they play is just inherently entertaining, so I don't see that getting boring. It's not like they're both 6'5", just hitting aces or something like that. They're doing unearthly things from the baseline. It's fantastic to watch. But yeah, I think I'm kinda with you. The men's tour right now is more matchup dependent.

Like Zverev was playing Hatchinov in the semis, I believe it was. And I'm just like, I know exactly what that match looks like. Like I know what that match looks like. Whoever wins it, it doesn't matter. It's just like they're gonna be these two long armed dudes just hitting from the baseline. It's just like I don't actually want to watch that tennis match right now.

Dasef (17:23.592)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (17:33.789)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (17:37.297)
Yeah.

Yep.

Dasef (17:47.462)
Yeah, no, I didn't watch it either. Who did Ben play before?

Alvin Owusu (17:53.514)
Uhh, Fritz, he played Taylor.

Dasef (17:55.304)
Yeah, that's I need to watch I didn't I didn't watch that one Not because of choice, but I just didn't have an opportunity to I want to go back and watch that

Alvin Owusu (18:03.433)
Yeah, I think that match was happening at the same time. Rebecca and I was playing, in Boko. So I got, I got caught up in that one and could not make myself watch more tennis after that. actually I ended up watching Osaka versus, Towson right after that. And I was like, Taylor Ben, it's too late, man. I can't, I can't, I can't mess with you guys. but yeah, like it's a first, like it's almost like first week of a tournament, like first few rounds, like the women's.

Dasef (18:09.138)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (18:12.509)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (18:30.411)
There's the higher hit rate of like intriguing matchups. but then also like on the men's side, like if I'm at a tournament, like you can sit down and watch almost any, any match and like, just be amazed by like what these guys could do at like that speed. with that pace of ball, it's like, this is not real. It's not real.

Dasef (18:34.876)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (18:49.709)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. I saw someone today say something like 94 mile per hour forehand is like would make news back in the early 2000s, but now it's just like kind of standard for that level of tennis nowadays, which is crazy. Which is why you don't see many guys coming to the net, too, because the ball's just moved. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (19:06.499)
Yeah, yeah, they're all sliding. Right. It's kind of it's hard. It's hard to get to the net. Like, right. You can't like create these opportunities anymore. It's almost like a guy leaves the ball hanging in middle of the court. Like it's like it's you're not you're not getting to it. It's not you're not doing anything with that. Yeah. Well, cool. Since Cincinnati coming up, you know, big boys are back. Seven Link is back.

Dasef (19:21.777)
Good night. Nah.

Alvin Owusu (19:35.115)
Carlos and Janik are back. little final tune up. I'm gonna plug the, so Cincinnati, Cincinnati Open was kind of under siege a couple years ago when Ben Navarro, Emma's dad, bought the tournament, right? And there, he was also at the same time looking to build a state of the art facility in Charlotte, North Carolina, right? So there was a lot of talk about the tournament was gonna move.

Dasef (19:37.88)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (19:53.308)
Uh-huh.

Dasef (20:02.033)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (20:04.875)
It was looking it was looking that way and the you know the municipalities and powers that be in Cincinnati at both, you know city County state level Really rallied around that that cause because they did not the tournament like the tournament's rich history they couldn't imagine losing that event it means so much to the community so They really pulled together and were able to

Dasef (20:25.297)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (20:33.503)
present an offer that made it make sense for the tournament to stay there and they improved the facilities. I say that to say they filmed a documentary about it. It's like a multi-part documentary. The first part dropped last week. I think I you the link, but I'll put the link in the description. It's a fantastic watch so far. I love this kind of like behind the scenes stuff and just kind of like tennis is, it's not all what we see.

Dasef (20:38.919)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dasef (20:48.455)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (21:01.131)
at the Grand Slams, like a lot of it is just like these events are at very small facilities a lot of these times. Sometimes public facilities that get turned into tour stops for a week or two out of the year. But you know, it's the people that show up year after year in these communities that make these events special. So yeah, I'm making a note to myself. I'll put that in the description. Yeah, in description.

Dasef (21:05.264)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (21:29.845)
But anyways, yep, Cincinnati's coming and then US Open Fast on its heels, so we got a lot of tenants coming up here in the very near future.

Dasef (21:35.034)
Yeah. And then if anyone's listening out here in Georgia and Atlanta, if you feel so inclined, please bring back ATP tournament, WTA tournament. We'll take it here in the city. We need one. It'll be very important for the community. I'm sure local state, county government will make you an offer.

Alvin Owusu (21:50.948)
gosh.

Alvin Owusu (21:56.242)
Yeah, yeah, we had Peter, uh, Peter Lebanon's on the, he's the tournament director for the Dallas open. Uh, it wasn't her director for the Atlanta open. Um, we had him on the, on the pod a couple months ago, maybe in February and he, um, long story short, he did say that, you know, Atlanta didn't do anything wrong. They had, they had the opportunity to get a 500 and.

just kind of the stipulations of like who was eligible and so on and so forth. just caught like the they can only have they had to take their two 250s and turn them into one 500 and it needed to be in February. So Dallas got the 500 bump and Atlanta had to go because it was in July, not in February. So that's why we lost the event. But you know, tennis in Atlanta, professional tennis Atlanta is interesting. Like we do have a women's 125 at the.

Dasef (22:25.637)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (22:38.991)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (22:50.743)
Atlanta athletic club now. you know, but we used to have a men's 500 there back in the day. The Atlanta open used to be on clay, right? And we got all the good, like a lot of, remember going up there, like it was, was fun. Like go watch these, these pro players play on clay up in Alfredo. It's good stuff. But yeah, we should, we, yeah. Well, maybe we should, maybe we should start up petition.

Dasef (22:56.003)
huh.

Yep, I remember.

Dasef (23:04.869)
Mm-hmm.

Dasef (23:11.673)
I'm just throwing it out and yeah, just put it out there in the world and maybe it'll come true somehow.

Alvin Owusu (23:17.715)
Maybe so, maybe so. All right, cool. Well, Seth, I appreciate you coming out. That is another episode of Best 3 Podcasts in the books. And we will catch up with the people next time.

Dasef (23:29.317)
It's been a pleasure. Thanks. Peace.

Dasef (23:35.545)
I won't, I won't do it, I won't do it.