Ep. 56: US Open 2025 Preview (Part 1) - Mixed Doubles Shake-Up & Women’s Draw Breakdown

Alvin Owusu (00:05.365)
And welcome to another edition of the best three podcast. I'm still Alvin, that is Tory, and we are joined by our good friend Ashley Spicer. That's the whole thing right there. Absolutely, so glad that you're here. And on today's episode, it's that time of year, it's US Open Time. So we have decided that we cannot

Ashley Spicer (00:20.902)
Good.

Ashley Spicer (00:32.976)
Thank you guys so much for having me on. appreciate it.

Torrey (00:34.711)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (00:44.809)
go any further without discussing the mixed doubles invitational, the revamped mixed doubles before we get into the women's and men's draw.

Torrey (00:52.994)
Let's not call it anything but mixed doubles. We're going to call it a experiment. That's what we're going to call it. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (00:59.901)
Yeah, okay so let's set the table here, right? So, Tori, you just got back from New York this morning, it's Thursday evening, Draws came out today, Tori just got back, there he is, he's back in the.

Ashley Spicer (01:07.004)
I love it.

Ashley Spicer (01:11.548)
You're like, and everything, credentials and everything.

Alvin Owusu (01:14.719)
Back in the saddle of cash money records, you know what it is. So Tori was on site Sunday to Thursday. Ashley and I were like commenters watching at home.

Torrey (01:14.787)
You know what I'm saying? You know what it is.

Ashley Spicer (01:17.316)
hahahaha

Torrey (01:26.818)
And that's not a left-handed Monfist. That's a Tory that know how to flip his, flip and crop his pictures yet. But that was a recent one right there a few days ago. And I'm gonna say this, let me just say this Alvin. I've read a few articles on it, you and Ash, I'm sure have as well. The best thing about the last few days was the mixed doubles. And the worst thing about this whole thing has been the mixed doubles.

Alvin Owusu (01:32.213)
Oh yeah, that's a recent one. That's a recent one. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:54.005)
oooo

Torrey (01:54.216)
Let's appreciate it for what it is. It was a great experiment for the fans. It was exceptional. Alvin, I have seen Ash from Ruta to the Tuta. I have seen it in all its forms over last 20 some odd years. I have rarely seen opening date qualities be packed. Alvin, you're seeing my picture. Louis was just as packed and the grounds felt even more packed. I'm like, where are all these people?

Alvin Owusu (02:16.029)
Yeah, yeah, it's,

Torrey (02:22.887)
It's usually you get that kind of, and you've been, you both have been the numerous times before. You get a packed Ash and the outside's Bear. You get a packed Louie and Ash and it means it rained three days earlier and everybody's on the outdoor courts. We were packed inside Ash, inside Armstrong and outside. Which has almost never happened.

Ashley Spicer (02:31.342)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (02:36.069)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Spicer (02:42.588)
Well, that's the thing that was surprising. Well, I was thinking that was surprising last night is that came through on the broadcast. That came through on TV, the energy.

Alvin Owusu (02:42.837)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (02:51.612)
and the excitement that fans had to watch any doubles. Let's not even qualify that with mixed doubles, but any kind of doubles in our sport. it's always been relegated to if you are a real deep tennis fan, if you're like just a gung-ho about it, maybe you have a personal connection or maybe one of the top five are actually playing. You know, I remember back when I was growing up and the Williams sisters would make it deep in some doubles draw, you'd pay attention then. It was front and center. It was front and center and the fans were

Torrey (02:56.442)
That's a great point.

Torrey (03:03.19)
Back courts. Yep, yep.

Alvin Owusu (03:05.695)
Right.

Torrey (03:17.004)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Ashley Spicer (03:21.596)
excited and to kick off the US Open with that kind of energy.

Torrey (03:27.024)
Yep.

Ashley Spicer (03:27.228)
I think it does wonders for the sport. Now, I'm a bit conflicted, admittedly. I think that it does consolidate the talent in our sport to the top 20. It's going to consolidate the prize money. But if you watch the quality of tennis in that finals was absolutely amazing. was focused. She was into it. not, it had shed its exhibition feel for maybe the first couple rounds. They were playing for a million dollars last night and everyone

Torrey (03:35.923)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good.

and competitive. I want it to win.

Alvin Owusu (03:56.086)
So let's go back and reset, right? So for those who are not aware, Living Under a Rock, which I can't imagine that's the case, because if you listen to this podcast, you're a tennis nerd, right? You're with your people here. US Open Mixed Doubles format changed, right? Moved from week two, I guess technically week three, because now we're calling these Grand Slams three weeks, which is a whole new thing, but like as opposed to,

Torrey (03:56.213)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (03:57.182)
going renew it.

Ashley Spicer (04:05.008)
you found this podcast.

Torrey (04:07.937)
though.

Torrey (04:19.466)
Yeah, Pretty much is. 2.75. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (04:22.076)
Sorry.

Alvin Owusu (04:25.159)
Right, exactly. As opposed to being on the back courts during a main draw, route of 16 quarterfinals, they're now during, they're putting, they're putting, they play the event during fan week, right? So while qualies is happening on the outside course, fans come in and watch qualies, they are having these mixed doubles events and they up the ante from $200,000 for the winning team to a million dollars for the winning team and they got.

Torrey (04:31.05)
Snicking it in between finals, know, snicking it in round one early afternoon. Yep.

Ashley Spicer (04:50.512)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (04:51.381)
the they got all the top singles players to play, right? So that's kind of the nuts and bolts of it,

Ashley Spicer (04:54.018)
Correct. And they were only playing in the stadiums, right? Both in Ash and Armstrong. They were not on any outside courts. Every match was in the stadiums.

Alvin Owusu (04:58.013)
Right, that's a-

Torrey (05:02.502)
And it was, and it was four game short set scoring and they were, and they played two a day. And I think that's also part of the secret sauce is it wasn't a long and drawn out. can make your case for or against it, but it gave the fans more people to watch. It made a ticket in Ash valuable. made, it made, and the value add the whole value proposition is what we're really talking about here. Armstrong was free and ironically, Alvin on that first day, they had a lot of good quality matches in.

Alvin Owusu (05:05.737)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (05:21.001)
Right, the value.

Torrey (05:32.032)
in Louis and they had a lot of quality matches in Ash and fans going back and forth. I'm just telling you, was great to see, it was great to feel. The only thing, and Ash, you made a great point about the shrinking the field and what have you. I think the thing that I still don't want to come to terms with is you still can't call that a Grand Slam champ for the winner.

And I'm so glad that the winners end up being, you know, obviously, Arani and above the story. But the issue to me comes down to let's call this what it is. It wasn't an exhibition. It was definitely much more than that. And I, and, I love that JPEG called out Draper on that, on that point. However, I'm not going to call them the best mixed doubles players in the world either and give a Grand Slam champ credential, so to speak, even though was on the ground, on the Grand Slam stage.

Alvin Owusu (06:08.69)
It was not an exhibition.

Ashley Spicer (06:12.304)
Yes.

Torrey (06:25.51)
It was, we won the US Open mixed experiment in 2025. Call it what you want. Number one, there was a secret draw. Number two, there wasn't a qualifying, there wasn't a ranking for it. And let's face it, Irani almost didn't make the darn draw and they weren't even seated. They're the number one mixed player on the team. So that in itself, and for every one of them, there's four more of them, three or four more teams, four more teams that round out the top five mixed in the world.

Ashley Spicer (06:44.614)
Sure, sure.

Torrey (06:54.995)
that need to be seen and heard from. And my big recommendation is make those for the seeds next year. Okay, let's start there. And then we start adding in, I know Album was very partial to watching Roderic Cano and Alcares, which I think everybody was, the crowd packed best for tennis. But let's not make any mistake, Roderic Cano better up her game next time. I mean, because she was the worst player on the court that day.

Alvin Owusu (07:02.59)
Good one.

Alvin Owusu (07:11.518)
Best thing for tenni- Best for tennis.

Ashley Spicer (07:21.498)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (07:22.941)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey (07:23.493)
in that situation and that's nothing against her and the game. She's improved a ton. Former Grand Slam, actual Grand Slam champion this tournament here several years ago. So we, this is no, there's no pot shots. The doubles takes a little bit of a different skill set and I was glad that Sarah and Andrea figured that out. But I just want to say this, that's the piece they missed. They didn't miss the timing. That they nailed.

Ashley Spicer (07:38.79)
I think it showcased that, Tori. I think the fact that the defending champs won showed that. I agree.

Torrey (07:47.699)
They didn't miss the popularity and the injection of people and the prize money and having people see, love the format. What they missed was what happens when they win this thing? What are we calling it? And if that's all they missed, that's not a bad miss, right? What we have to deal with now is where does it fall within the canon of the rest of them? how much do we give this? Forget the prize money.

Alvin Owusu (08:05.385)
Well,

Alvin Owusu (08:11.698)
Ashley, what's a...

Ashley Spicer (08:11.856)
I think.

Torrey (08:17.374)
How about I make a full court, a half court shot at halftime in Hawks game. Does that give me three point champ status or does that give me a $20,000 check? You know what mean? No, I say it.

Ashley Spicer (08:23.504)
Well, think that's a bit diminutive, Tori. I think that's a bit diminutive to what those players are. I actually think that last night, especially in the semis and finals, I think you actually saw that.

it does take a different skill set for doubles. And they were able to showcase that in front of a nearly packed Arthur Ashe Stadium. Unfortunately, mixed doubles and doubles just haven't got that attention. It hasn't had that star power. I'm a bit partial to the Jensen brothers. I was coached by Luke Jensen in my college days. so, they have kind of that it factor and still didn't necessarily reach the popularity that maybe they would have had they been top singles players, right? And I think last night you got to see even the top singles players.

Torrey (08:37.395)
Yep. Right. Yeah. Yep.

Ashley Spicer (09:04.504)
aren't skilled in doubles and there is a different skill set. I think next year, some areas of improvement, you expand that draw, maybe you add one more day to the tournament. I think you make it a 32 draw. I think you include those top teams to your point, Tori. And I think then you can actually call it a mixed-level champion. I think also the difference in pressure for these mixed-levels players. They are not used to playing in front of PAC stadiums. They're not used to playing for a million dollars, right?

Torrey (09:07.391)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (09:34.398)
kind of like ups the level, right? And I think if we're talking about how do we make it a true US Open, know, Grand Slam champion.

Torrey (09:38.361)
Certainly up the ante. I'll agree with you on that. It up the ante for sure. But Ashley, go ahead.

Alvin Owusu (09:40.764)
Right, I mean.

I mean, we went from a two, okay, this is kind of my take is like, I feel like we're on the path, we're on the right path, right? Because I don't know about either of you, did either of you guys watch mixed doubles last year in the US Open? Of course you didn't, no one did. And that's kind of the problem, right? So we go from even, even better, even better. what is professional tennis? It's an entertainment product, right?

Ashley Spicer (09:56.797)
Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And I was on site week two and I still didn't watch it.

Torrey (09:59.643)
No.

Torrey (10:04.935)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (10:06.811)
You

Ashley Spicer (10:11.772)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (10:12.048)
if it is not providing a service from an entertainment standpoint, then it doesn't make the cut in its current format. So I think adding it to fan week, And having, I don't think fans actually care what their favorite players are doing. They'll watch their favorite players, right? So if you buy a ticket to Ash and you get to see Alcara's and you get to see.

Torrey (10:33.662)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (10:38.1)
Draper and you get to see whoever was playing on Ash that day. it was like, for fans, that's awesome. I'll watch these guys do anything. I'll watch them practice. Maybe I can't watch them play in this arena in the quarterfinals, but this is pretty cool too, because they're out there trying and it was, I thought it was fantastic. But Tori, I'm with you on the, if we start to think about next year, what does this evolution look like? I really feel like,

Ashley Spicer (10:39.782)
I'm Shelton.

Alvin Owusu (11:05.916)
Let's give the top four mixed doubles teams the four top seeds and then let's and then let's feed in the other eight teams that are the best singles players.

Torrey (11:06.14)
Yep. 100 % have to do it. 100 % we have to give respect where it's due. We have to give the double special where the credit they deserve. I also think and you too may or may not agree with me on this. You need to give the top women's doubles players assuming that the same but assuming that and they need to get wild cards and get to pick from a

group of players that are crowd favorites, dancing with the stars type format, right? And do the same with the men. And now let's just say you got a Sinayaka on one side and you've got, I don't know, let's say Rajiv Ram. And they get to pick, here's, hey, here's, you get first pick, Raj, you're whatever, whatever in the world right now, right? And he gets to pick one of the top ladies. And now, that now will really start to upset Sonopla Karts, because you have your current doubles, mixed doubles teams. You've got some top doubles special.

players in the mix who are now getting to choose and their seeding allows them to pick their actual partners. And then you add in a couple of crowd faves that played that just will happen to jump into the tournament. I mean, I'm just telling you guys, I think there's a lot that could happen here to woo the good singles players back to doubles, which is really to me, I've always felt is one of the fan favorites if we had them playing. And that's not a pot shot on the players that are playing now. It's just,

The tennis, the top have specialized in singles. And I get your point, Ashley. They have this different skill set. The top used to play it. You'd mentioned Venus and Serena, Macaron and Fleming. You know, they used to play it, right? It's been a choice not to, scheduled, I get it. But I'm saying, Alvin, if we could tweak it. and hey, and Cincinnati, they just finished. They just finished last week. You know, it was a day turnaround for some of these guys to even get back here. So I say it to say there should be a...

Ashley Spicer (12:41.135)
Of course.

Ashley Spicer (12:48.112)
wear and tear on the body, players are trying to play longer careers.

Alvin Owusu (12:51.187)
Well, there's not much incentive. They make so much money playing singles, like it's not worth it for them.

Ashley Spicer (12:55.652)
Right. Right. Right.

Torrey (13:01.628)
That way you do two things. You take advantage or you take care of your mixed doubles current top. You embrace your current doubles top, right? I can't go down to nine, 10, 15, the world doubles. I'm sorry, but what we can do is take care of the top four and give them some love. And then we're going to make that to be a 32 draw, plenty of room for some seeds of wild cards in there. And if you want to throw Venus a bone,

even better, let her play with somebody. If you want to play with somebody else, if you want to throw, if Raj wants to play with a fellow American, he wants to play with us, wants to play with anybody, he can choose that as being the top, assume he's one of the top men in doubles. And that to me is how it should go down. Now you put some of those crowd favorites in there. I'm going to say right now, and I saw the match with Novak and Danilovic, there was no reason that that young lady should be on the court with those players. She was, it was just tough for, and Novak,

You know, it's not a bad player in general, right? And I just feel like what you end up getting is, as you mentioned it, the semis and finals were solid on both semis, by the way. Pagula and Draper almost had that one, right? On a side note. But now, but now you've got quality doubles all the way through. And I'm going to come to Draper's defense. Some of those first rounds felt like an exhibition a little bit at the very least in part of what it looked like.

Ashley Spicer (14:07.505)
Mm-hmm.

They did. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (14:11.615)
yeah,

Ashley Spicer (14:16.58)
all the way.

Ashley Spicer (14:23.548)
Well, I think the players didn't know quite what to bring. Yeah, I don't think the players quite knew what energy to bring, what focus to bring. Yeah.

Torrey (14:27.419)
100%. They weren't playing true mix. They were dinking, they were showing out, were hitting. Masetti, you know, my all-time fave, Lorenzo was hitting these backhand slap over heads. my God. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Alvin Owusu (14:35.899)
get out of here with, don't, don't, don't, don't with Masetti. Don't you dare, don't you dare. This is a Masetti safe, this is a safe Masetti space. You know that, don't. Ashley, go ahead.

Ashley Spicer (14:46.092)
I do think we have to I think the biggest credit to the New York crowd for really embracing this experiment. I think that that ultimately makes it more appealing to do this next year. I think that I could definitely anticipate and see men's and women's doubles taking the same format.

Torrey (14:46.267)
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Torrey (15:00.389)
Right.

Torrey (15:06.363)
I agree.

Ashley Spicer (15:08.848)
I think I like it. I mean, think I like it from a perspective of you could see, I mean, I look at Ega and that match, I mean, she wanted to win. was, I mean, she was just as competitive as I seen her in singles for a mixed doubles. And she got a little, for the top players, there's that incentive, not just financially, but like, let's go test yourself a little bit. Let's go play some pressure points on Ash before the tournament even starts. I mean, I'm excited to see how those players do this next two weeks.

Alvin Owusu (15:09.704)
Ugh.

Torrey (15:10.971)
That was it.

Torrey (15:21.944)
Yep.

Torrey (15:32.994)
And you never want to lose Ashley

Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (15:37.33)
Right, think that's the, so I think that's kind of the interesting part. Like the players who, especially the ones who were playing last night, right, who went a little bit deeper into the event. Yeah, like how do they, how does that translate? What do we see out of them, you know, come first, second round of this event? And then also, it's, I think it's quite convenient that the players played matches back to back. Like,

Ashley Spicer (15:44.208)
Yep, summarize and finalists, yep, yep.

Ashley Spicer (15:53.02)
Yeah.

Torrey (16:03.566)
Yes.

Alvin Owusu (16:04.34)
that I want to hear like I didn't pay attention to the any of the press today, but like did the players feel like it wasn't too much of a like an imposition on their time, right? Because if you go, if you go, get to the site, you warm up, your whole process, you play one short, you play one match. And then if you win, you stay on and you play another match and then you're done. Right. Like that's and now that's that's Monday before the event starts. That's that's nothing. That's nothing. You can go practice that afternoon.

Torrey (16:15.194)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (16:31.036)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (16:32.913)
Right? And then the people who played in the semis and finals last night, that's in the evening. I'm sure they all practiced in the morning, right? They're already there. So like, it didn't really seem like it was that tough for them to do it. And the reason why don't think they can extend it is because like there are, there are like legends exhibition matches going on. Like now until Sunday when the tournament starts, like I think Roddick is doing something tonight in Ash and the Nagasees do it like, like there's stuff happening.

Ashley Spicer (16:38.556)
Sure.

Torrey (16:44.595)
Yep It's a packed schedule to be sure

Ashley Spicer (16:50.854)
sure.

Alvin Owusu (16:59.771)
It's a packed schedule. It's a packed schedule. I think like my kind of my last point is like, there's a very like there's always a financial reason to do this, right? Like ESPN just renewed their rights with the US Open last year, they're pushed out another 15 years, right? A little more investment on their part, they've got to recoup that, right? So it's everyone's incentivized to do something else with that. Something extra like that is like I mentioned in our our tech star like that's found gold. That's found money like, we have

Ashley Spicer (17:10.394)
Ha ha ha!

Yeah.

Torrey (17:19.97)
Right, something extra, something they didn't have before,

Alvin Owusu (17:28.541)
that we have qualifying going on. Our players are on site. Okay, cool. We're selling some tickets to Ash. They packed Ash with paying consumers who are also buying food and beverage and merch, the whole deal. Like, great. It's on TV. We're running ads. It's, yeah, I love it. I love it. It's great.

Torrey (17:37.593)
Packed, Alvin. Packed.

Ashley Spicer (17:38.748)
I'm sorry.

Ashley Spicer (17:43.534)
And it was packed until, what was it? Almost midnight New York time. Upper level still packed. You don't even see that necessarily in a round four match, a night match at Ash. You don't even necessarily see it then.

Alvin Owusu (17:47.783)
Yeah! Too late. Too late.

Torrey (17:52.206)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (17:55.803)
If it's good, yeah.

Torrey (17:57.387)
If it's not good, and it rarely is with some of those top players, and don't forget Ashley, it was that way outside and inside. It wasn't just, and Armstrong. I mean, I'm trying to tell you, it-

Ashley Spicer (18:07.536)
That's amazing.

Alvin Owusu (18:11.485)
So there were people who didn't have tickets who were outside kind of like, you know, the free grounds pass that they got. They were watching on the big screen.

Torrey (18:16.569)
I watched Alvin, I watched four or five of the matches on the big screen myself around about 3000 of my new found New York friends all right next to me watching the max. They got three different ones on the Jumbotron right outside of Ash. I wish they had kind of piped down the old kids, the little music stage right across the street from the fountain, right across from the fountains. I'm like, hey, hey, got a match going on over here. I mean, I'm telling you, it was people all over the place.

Alvin Owusu (18:26.173)
That's awesome.

Alvin Owusu (18:37.033)
Hahaha

Torrey (18:44.218)
And there were people then that of course grouped it out to watch the Qualies. I was happy to see the Qualies players have a crowd to play in front of and get an actual Ash experience. There's two players here from Atlanta, Andres Martin and Gary Johns that played in front of 500 to 1,000 people. They haven't had that since college. You know, since Garrett's Duke days and Andres's Georgia Tech days. He may have never played in front of 1,000 people at Tech.

Alvin Owusu (18:54.312)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (18:56.348)
That's cool.

Alvin Owusu (19:05.585)
Right, yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (19:13.323)
Unless it was a big match. And so I said to say he had that then because the people were there and it's right next to Ash, right? They're right there. People are spilling over hats off to whoever the execs were that, that, that stuck their neck out for this. Cause it was a great, great experiment and the people seem to love it. As I say, a few small adjustments, make the adjustments, come back and do it again next year with a few tweaks. Jessica Bagula did make one big point. thought it was great. And

add in some player involvement. At the very least, take the pulse and what the players think. I think none of the players minded the idea. I think it was just a matter of, hey, we are the ones that are playing the sport. You might want to run an idea like that by us next time.

Alvin Owusu (19:55.411)
Yeah, it did kind of come out of nowhere. I think, know, it seems like we all across the board here feel like it was a great, you know, a great experience. I'm leaning 10 out of 10. I mean, I was up last night watching mixed doubles, like so, and it also introduced, you know, a lot of people to Vavasori and Irani, like relatively unknown if you're not like in the tennis, like in the tennis weeds. And now they've got, they've got fans. They got fans.

Torrey (20:04.024)
Yep.

Torrey (20:09.048)
Yep.

Torrey (20:16.524)
Yep. Yep. And unfortunately unseated and then the top layers.

Alvin Owusu (20:26.386)
Yeah, I mean

Ashley Spicer (20:28.092)
I'm so glad they won though as defending champions. think that that spoke to the to their quality and then I was actually quite nervous when I went the fact that they extended the finals to full six game sets. You can see they went up for one real easy and then all of a sudden, know, Ega in her creep back and now you got a tiebreaker going on. I mean, you saw some I mean, Arani thrown in an underhand serve there because she's feeling the right. When's the last time she probably felt nerves like that playing mixed doubles, right?

Torrey (20:34.892)
Yes, it did. yes.

Torrey (20:41.1)
Yeah.

Torrey (20:44.544)
It got tight. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (20:52.902)
OOF

Torrey (20:55.816)
Yeah. When's the last time she played Igor Sviatnik? Let's put that in there. Let me say this one last piece. I know you want to keep us on track, Alvin, and a lot to go over tonight. Ashley and Alvin, my question to both of you. In a perfect world, does this experiment bring more of the top back to mixed doubles? I want to leave doubles out of it. I get your point, Ash. I think that's a great point. We'll talk about that. That's lead that to across that bridge. Does this bring more top?

Ashley Spicer (20:59.835)
Well, exactly, exactly.

Alvin Owusu (21:00.432)
Right, yeah.

Torrey (21:24.152)
to doubles, to mixed doubles. Number two, does this format, right, bring more people to the matches and tell us that the format was, and the timing was better, or is it that mixed doubles is actually that fun to watch all along? Right, in other words, are we watching the players who are top, or are we watching more doubles, and it's just when you brought it to us that we felt like it was.

That I'm having a hard time in my mind thinking that it's just mixed doubles that also got popular. It's clearly some of the players, but I'm also leaning on timing and format. That's, that's the, and, and, and, and my third question, they're all in there together, but my, the third question is we're onto something here. Clearly the momentum and all of it is speaking to something. What is it?

Alvin Owusu (22:03.571)
I'm gonna let Ashley take her.

Ashley Spicer (22:19.344)
Yeah, I mean, I think... Okay, you can go, Alvin, go ahead.

Alvin Owusu (22:19.898)
Okay, I'll let Asha go, yep.

Alvin Owusu (22:25.042)
No, no, ladies first. I insist. I insist.

Ashley Spicer (22:26.67)
Okay. Hold it together. Okay, so I think first of all, I think that the time will tell on if this is gonna bring.

the top players back, I actually think that let's see how they do the next two weeks, right? If we see some deep runs from people who played from players who were in the mixed doubles, I think there's an argument to be made that they kind of shook off some of those nerves by playing in front of a crowd on ash when there's no pressure, right? I think that there's something to be said for that and in getting a little bit of practice in those pressure situations, right? Deuces, this, that and the other. So I think time will tell, right? Hopefully it doesn't turn into like the Netflix curse, right? Where like all of a sudden the people

Torrey (22:55.784)
Nope. Nope.

Torrey (23:04.663)
Yeah, sure.

Alvin Owusu (23:07.11)
Yeah, yeah.

Ashley Spicer (23:07.934)
players who play Mix are now like dropping like flies. I hope that it's not that. I do think that

I think that it will introduce fans to mixed doubles through the top players. And my hope is that it creates mixed doubles fans, right? So maybe at the beginning, it's drawing crowds, the timing of course, the positioning of it, the format, yes. But also drawing in people and to Alvin's point earlier, I don't think very many casual tennis fans remember who Sarah Arani is. I'm hoping that there's new found interest in the mixed doubles in these very talented,

Torrey (23:15.703)
Yep.

Ashley Spicer (23:45.384)
very accomplished players who frankly have had a disservice by not getting the attention, right? And not having some spotlight on them.

Torrey (23:48.354)
you

Ashley Spicer (23:57.136)
Third, I think what I always hate, I'm more of a tennis traditionalist. I always hate to shorten formats, but I think you're starting to see this concept throughout, right? There was the Atlanta event, the intense Atlanta event, where it was a shorter format. I think you've seen it pulled in from World Team Tennis in the past. I think there's probably some room at the college level to experiment with some of this as well. I think that's where our sport is going to go for the sake of TV deals.

Torrey (24:16.381)
Yup. Bright.

Ashley Spicer (24:27.07)
and dollars, right? I just don't think that people today have the same type of attention. Borderline, I'll put this in quotes, respect for these like highly long, every day is this drawn out match play. I think there's a time and place for that.

Torrey (24:44.122)
I'm going to call it tennis fatigue and ADHD. Actually, let's call it what it is because TV's only mirroring what the fan is doing. If a fan tuned in for four out of seven sets, know what I mean? Then they'd be all for longer matches. I hear what you're saying. I just want to throw that in there. don't think it has anything. We're matching a demand here or adjusting to a lack of, right, as opposed to live around.

Ashley Spicer (24:48.294)
Sure. Sure. Yeah. Correct.

Ashley Spicer (25:00.73)
Right, right.

Torrey (25:14.059)
Keep going.

Ashley Spicer (25:14.842)
Yeah, and I my hope is that this this type of energy remains around tennis. You know, I think we're some of the attention in the casual tennis fan is getting diluted by other racket sports just a bit, and I hope this kind of energy and this excitement, whether it's due to a format, whether it's due to having the top players playing different events, I'm hoping that that draws excitement back to our sport. So I feel it waning, you know, at times.

Torrey (25:39.203)
Right. And I guess that's really the question I want you to go. That's really where the crux of my question is. Is it format induced and players, it's timing or is it right? Or is it really the issue is that if you were just had put it at the beginning and made an incentive for the top to play, people would have watched it all along. That's really and I don't want to make it that either or but

Alvin Owusu (26:04.092)
So.

Torrey (26:05.813)
because I know it's a lot of both. Album, go ahead.

Alvin Owusu (26:08.561)
I am gonna take the other side on this one. I don't think this has anything to do with mixed doubles. I don't think it has anything to do with doubles. It has to do with what it always has to do with. If you put star players in front of people, they will watch. And I think that's all it really is because no one, we weren't introduced to mixed doubles players. There was only one true mixed doubles team in this whole event, right? So like that's the, yeah, you saw a lot of the people you knew.

Torrey (26:31.765)
True. There's a lot of popular singles players playing double.

Alvin Owusu (26:38.267)
who you would normally buy a ticket to go see, you just saw them play a different version of the same sport, right? That's it. Most tennis fans do play doubles, so they get that. They understand what doubles is. They're not watching it because the top players aren't playing it. So they watch the top players. They know that the best players are not playing doubles, they're playing singles, so they're gonna watch those players. Now you have those players playing doubles, mixed doubles, whatever, cool.

Torrey (27:00.051)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (27:05.519)
I'll watch them play. Yeah, we'll do whatever you want to play shooter. You want to play the wave? I don't care. Like 105 play whatever play anything. I'll watch. I'll watch Carlos Alcares play anything on a tennis court. But sign me up. Sign me up. Exactly. Exactly.

Torrey (27:06.281)
Chippos.

Torrey (27:17.629)
Right. Bounce down again. Sure. Sure. With you.

Ashley Spicer (27:19.376)
But don't you think Alvin that there's an opportunity where through that introduction, tennis fans will find other new players to be excited about? Don't you think there's an opportunity?

Alvin Owusu (27:28.489)
Not unless, not unless we make it happen. That's why, that's why I'm, I'm for like, you know, if we've got the attention of the fan in this, in during fan week and we have these star players playing, we need to bring in more of the doubles players to show that these players can play too. And that's why I was so pumped that Irani and Vavasori won the event and pretty much they won it fairly handily. I don't think they dropped a set until the very last set. Right? So like, I mean, it was close, but it should be close. Right. But you thought it would have been closer.

Torrey (27:33.118)
Bye.

Torrey (27:47.805)
Yeah, cool, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (27:57.456)
Considering how good these stars are they smoked everybody until the final right? So I think that's like that's another boost up for Doubles players for double specialists like hey what we're doing here is like we're doing something that is is it's a different skill set you can't just walk in here and think you're gonna Take our lunch, and we'll take the 5x prize money to thank you come for half the work. Thank you come again like Great for them great for them. yeah, let's

Torrey (28:00.436)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (28:06.617)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey (28:17.463)
Sure. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (28:25.765)
Let's switch gears here, because this is not a double show. This is a US Open preview show. I feel like it's in our best interest. Let's start with the women's draw. How do you guys feel about that? Yeah. I assume everyone has had a chance to take a look at the draw. I'm going to put this bad boy up. Boom. Share. There we go. Are we good? Can you guys see it?

Torrey (28:39.303)
Sure.

Ashley Spicer (28:40.454)
Let's do it. Let's do it.

Torrey (28:53.991)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (28:55.291)
Fantastic, all right. Sabalenka, one seed, top half of her quarter. Let's get to it. Anything jumping out at you guys as we look at the first few matchups here? I, for one, not really see anything that's of concern. I would assume Sabalenka and probably Leila Fernandez move forward pretty straightforward here.

Torrey (29:25.173)
See a lot of good tennis. Happy that Leila Fernandez actually made the cut for this whole situation. I think a few players pulled out. That's what allowed her to jump in the mix there. Like with most one seed sides of the draw, looks pretty much in favor of Arena as it should. I do think it's worth noting that she has not won a Grand Slam yet this year and is defending champ.

Ashley Spicer (29:27.484)
you

Ashley Spicer (29:50.705)
Yeah.

Torrey (29:52.499)
And I think that's, I think that's more of what I am looking at when I see her name. It's not so much the players in her quarter. don't see as a few good play that there's that first of let me say this. And I always hate when I get into this mindset, each one of these ladies on in front of me from Mastro Rova all the way down to I can't see Busco, a pass Busco are all phenomenal tennis players. want to make sure we continue to press that point. However,

We're looking at one of the best of all time in Arena Sabalink. I think about when I go to her name, I think about, isn't it weird? We've had three different women win Grand Slams this year and she's been in two of the finals and has not won one yet. And although she's defending champ, she's still looking for her first for this year. So I think that's a great point to mention. I don't think there are many that can stand in her way in general. And certainly from what I see, not necessarily from this

section for draw.

Ashley Spicer (30:52.56)
I think it always comes down to, sorry, Alvin.

Alvin Owusu (30:52.901)
Let me ask you this. No, go ahead, I was gonna ask you Ashley, but you go ahead.

Ashley Spicer (30:57.724)
I think it always comes down to does Sabalinka show up or not, right? It's on, it's usually, you know, it's Sabalinka's draw to lose. She's obviously more than talented, more than qualified, has the experience. But like you said, Tori, she's been in the finals, you know, at least twice this year and just has not been able to get over that hump. Right, yeah.

Torrey (31:18.451)
And the other time was a semi. mean, the other time was a semi. It like it was second round. The others who won have stubbed their toe more than she has. And I agree with you. There's always that case with the arena. Sometimes the mental can be there. She has been the most consistent player on tour this year. I think it's a bit of an anomaly. However, it is ironic that of all the number ones, again, and she is multiple time grand slam champ and defending champ here.

Ashley Spicer (31:25.051)
Right.

Ashley Spicer (31:37.744)
Yes.

Torrey (31:47.835)
It's just ironic that she has not won one yet so far this year after being in after have been in two was it two finals Alvin two finals in one semi I think I'm Final Aussie in French and got the semi right got semi of got beat by Nissan Mo in the semi.

Alvin Owusu (31:57.873)
She finaled Australia, she finaled French semis. So let me ask you this, let me ask you this. Two, kind of two questions about Arena. Because I'm not saying that I'm concerned, but I'm a little concerned, right? If we get to the end of the year, which I think a lot of people have covered this, but if we get to the end of the year, let's say she doesn't win the US Open, but she will finish, likely finish the year.

year and number one, that's a little, that's a little, huh, right? We have, we have, but you know, Tori and I on this, on this particular show have, have made the claim that she is one of the more dominant, you know, women's tennis players that we've seen in recent history, but does she have an issue winning big matches? I think that's my, that's my real question. Like when we talk about her consistent,

Ashley Spicer (32:32.186)
We see that, we've seen that happen so many years in the past, Alvin. I mean, that's, you know.

Torrey (32:51.634)
Not anymore.

Alvin Owusu (32:55.236)
Well, we talk about her consistency, right? She's been, she has been consistent all year. She's getting to finals at worst semi-finals for most events, but when was the last time she won a tough three set match?

Torrey (33:06.097)
I'm gonna answer that Alvin in one, and by the way, let me not forget to point out Clara Towson, I think is the one girl that I think might be, she's at the very bottom, I couldn't see her earlier. I think she's in that last match in that draw. Clara Towson, hey, you gotta watch out for, know, Danish, I always forget which country some of these girls are from. I wanna say, is it Netherlands? Is it, what's the red and white, Norway? I always forget what the flag, Danish. Six foot tall, Dane.

Alvin Owusu (33:31.962)
She's Danish,

Ashley Spicer (33:33.084)
Danish

Torrey (33:35.845)
Big forehand, big strokes, that's always, Alvin, you made that term before, that's part of that profile that can always give a girl like Ariana Trouble who is much like her own profile, right? I will say this, I think it used to be. She was so much on her own case that she struggled in those matches because she put a lot of pressure on herself. I'm gonna say this and I hope I'm not being, I'm gonna say whatever I'm being. I think she slept.

on the competition. She went the other way. The pendulum swung the other direction. She thought, I got this. There is no way Madison Keys beats me. I mean, what does Madison Keys won in the last dot, She's playing Coco. Guys, it's been a great week. Maybe a little bit of a victory lap a bit early. I got this. She's got no serve. Foreign can't match up to mine. I got this.

Anissa Mova. Guys, guys, I'm right here. I got this. I'm playing. I'm playing well. I think there, if anything, it has been a little bit more of a, she's been surprised. She's been, I'm going to say, and each of these players played phenomenal in the match they played against her. So I personally don't think it's a nerves thing. It's not a arena thing. I think she was looking at the stats, her team and everybody else was looking at the

You know, the head to head, the tail, the tape, and neither one of them necessarily practiced for what if this girl comes out and plays the match of her life. They haven't thought of the worst case scenario, this player playing extremely well. And I think that's both her mental miscue and perhaps her team's mental preparation of getting her ready to play this thing as if one of these girls could catch fire. They played it as if it was a routine match.

And as we all know between Madison's, Australia, part of the best thing that she's played, Coco's best match to date. You heard it right here. Best match to date her career. And obviously Anissa, Anissa Mova played phenomenal. So good that she didn't play that well in the final. But each of those matches to me, the players came out and I think shocked her a little bit. I got to think it was a little bit of, little bit of, I've already got the trophy. I'm going over my speech in the warmup.

Alvin Owusu (35:59.248)
Ashley, what's at you?

Ashley Spicer (35:59.344)
But I think that's part of your question though. I think that's part of the point, right? Is that, okay, even if you go into something overconfident, maybe you didn't give enough credit where credit's due, maybe you didn't prepare mentally.

you're still faced with that. It's still at some point, you know, you're down in the first set, you're down in the second set, you're about to lose. What is she going to come with in that mental toughness? Where is she gonna dig deep, right? And I think that's the difference between, you know, we heard, you know, Serena Williams say a lot in the back of the day, people play their best tennis against me, right? And you, it's pretty easy to look over someone, but she always brought it, right? She could be surprised and this player is playing great, but Serena would bring it. I don't see that same type of ability to, in that moment,

Torrey (36:19.888)
.

Alvin Owusu (36:26.608)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey (36:27.248)
Yep.

Ashley Spicer (36:40.046)
click in and problem solve and turn the ship around, so to speak.

Alvin Owusu (36:44.888)
Right, that's, I think that's.

Torrey (36:45.005)
I'm pushing back on that because I think Serena figured it out. I sat through a few matches against Davenport. I sat through a match against Capriotti. No, no, no. And I say it to say, isn't that part of the maturation process he's going through now? And I hear you. think it's very well said. What I'm getting at is, no, not enough. And if anything, it's the maturation of getting there. That's where Sabalinka is.

Ashley Spicer (36:52.932)
Sure, sure not perfectly, yes. Yeah, sure.

Alvin Owusu (37:03.098)
Well, that's not an indictment. It's not an indictment on Sabalinka, though.

Torrey (37:12.011)
and I think it's lack of a true rival. I think she has to go through this to get there. That's my point.

Ashley Spicer (37:12.654)
I hope she gets there.

Ashley Spicer (37:19.324)
Sure, yeah. I can do that.

Alvin Owusu (37:20.056)
Yeah, it's I think I mean, that's more of a this this oftentimes turns into a Serena Williams appreciation podcast. And I'm not I'm here for it. It doesn't it doesn't there's no reason for it not to be. But I think that also speaks more towards like her greatness and that like it's not easy for everyone to get to this point and then and then get through it. But I think that's also the beauty of women's tennis right now.

Ashley Spicer (37:37.692)
Absolutely.

Torrey (37:38.191)
.

Alvin Owusu (37:42.372)
the playing field is so, it's so even up top. Like there are, I was going through this list of trying to figure out like who could make a run at this tournament. I'm like nine deep and I feel like I just had to stop. I just had to stop. while Oriana has been on the whole quite dominant this year, it would be nice for her to finish off the year with a Grand Slam. Like she should get one and that, we'll see if she can ride us the occasion but we don't.

Ashley Spicer (37:42.428)
There's so much parody.

Torrey (37:45.62)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (37:52.22)
Yeah.

Torrey (37:53.039)
Yes.

Alvin Owusu (38:11.543)
I think collectively don't feel like she'll have any issues in the first part of this tournament. Let's move down to the bottom half of her quarter. There is a, yeah, and this is the, we talked about this, I think maybe during the French Open, I feel for these, I'm looking at McCartney Kessler here playing against Magdalene, right? And then potentially the winner of that one getting von Drossel in the second round, you get a seed.

Torrey (38:22.863)
A lot of good matches in this one, Alvin.

Ashley Spicer (38:33.953)
gosh, it's so tough.

Alvin Owusu (38:40.495)
That's awesome. And then you get someone who's like, and then you get someone who just missed getting seated. I love, those are like the juiciest matchups early rounds. Someone seated 28 through 32 playing against someone that's ranked somewhere between 35 and 45. That's like the best.

Torrey (38:40.718)
That's a quarterfinal.

Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (38:46.575)
Yeah.

Torrey (38:50.968)
Yeah.

Torrey (38:54.904)
Yeah. And right above you, right above you is Kuda Matova and Rada Kano. mean, it's literally, this is a tough situation right in here. This section, it seemed like every open draw so far has had that one, I'm gonna say section, right? I guess we're talking about eights now in some degree. That's been a little on the thin side, heavy on the seed, right? The one seed.

Alvin Owusu (39:03.132)
That's bad beat. That's a bad beat. Yeah.

Torrey (39:22.766)
that looks like you know they have a clear path and that just under is like oof oof baby that's the 15 or 17 through 31 32 are just ridiculous with with the way things are

Alvin Owusu (39:35.588)
While we're here, can we talk about Emma for a minute? I feel like Emma Rana-Khan knew, and I've harped on this, Emma would be better served if we just don't pay attention to anything that's happened to her prior like 2024. Because she is maturing and growing as a tennis player. Yeah, she is making the strides. She just missed getting seated here.

Ashley Spicer (39:40.508)
I was gonna say.

Torrey (39:57.647)
Different player now, 100%. 100%. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (40:04.12)
She is, and I hear her talking in press conferences, she gets it. She's locked into the process right now of being a professional tennis player and growing her career and growing as a player. I for one have been extremely impressed with her, especially this summer. She's played, she's played Sabalinka twice now, very tough. The Wimbledon match was tough. Home crowd, you assume, she gets a little bit of a push there, but then she played her toughest nails in Cincinnati as well.

Torrey (40:22.414)
Thank

Alvin Owusu (40:34.0)
Do we feel like Emma Rana Kahnu has, like what is her, actually what do think her ceiling is if this is the truest version of her?

Ashley Spicer (40:45.372)
I mean, think she's obviously a great player. think she's got something there. Unfortunately, her consistency, I'm struggling to see her consistency.

Torrey (40:47.278)
Nope.

Ashley Spicer (40:57.124)
in bringing the best version of herself. do agree she's going through the process. I hope that she kind of gets through this hopefully, you know, maybe another year or so to really like kind of come into herself fully as a player and bring that confidence. But, you know, I'm just not, haven't quite seen it yet. And I haven't quite seen that consistency. I think when she has nothing to lose or her perception is that she has nothing to lose, obviously she brings her best game. I see, I'm finding it hard to see her

Torrey (41:23.613)
No. I would say round three would be a big test. Would you not actually, I mean, we're back and it would be that match.

Ashley Spicer (41:27.068)
to even, you know, fourth round here, you know, and getting through some of this toughness here. So...

Alvin Owusu (41:36.727)
Yeah, cuz Kuda Murtobas played well right now.

Ashley Spicer (41:39.396)
Right. You know, second round against Robbakena. yeah, I just, it's going to be tough for her to get through this.

Alvin Owusu (41:42.905)
Well, hell even yeah, Kuda Matova in round two was gonna be tough because she's playing so well.

Torrey (41:45.837)
That's what saying. My point is, but Kuda Matova is unfortunately, you know, on the snipe and hasn't been playing some of best tennis. I'm just saying that if she were to beat a player like that, that's near that top 10 caliber and going in, I think you start looking at is she, and Ashley, you're exactly right. From my opinion, the consistency hasn't been there. That's been the problem. But she's starting to build a body of work. She's starting to put some things together that I feel has been

sorely missing from her game even with her, you know, her unbelievable run some years back against Layla this which we all thought was a bit of a Cinderella story but unfortunately it was a bit of a you know a little bit too early too soon you know it was a little bit of much too you know they that was more of a tournament of who lost and who was left standing when all the smoke cleared kind of a term and that's not that does not take that stat away from her column it that is 100 % well deserved it's just to say she didn't

Ashley Spicer (42:30.598)
Great.

Ashley Spicer (42:37.488)
right again.

Torrey (42:45.313)
beat everyone on in route and I think the consistency has never been there. I'm gonna say that part that's the problem. You think with Grand Slam that it would be but unfortunately that tournament it was not and I also say to say but it's getting better now and I think that this is a tournament to really make a big stand. It's one thing to play the top player in the world pretty tough in a match

Ashley Spicer (42:52.668)
It's fair, yeah.

Torrey (43:08.319)
It's nothing to follow it up with a good tournament right behind that to show you can get there again and face that big player and do it again. That to me would prove some consistency and to not get that far or to not get that next shot back at she's in Sabalinka's half. Then that would also tell me, yeah, not quite there yet either.

Alvin Owusu (43:29.007)
Well, she's all of 22 years old, right? We're not talking about someone who's pushing 30 here. She's still quite young. And so I allow her the ability to get past that magical US Open run, figure out what it's like to be a professional tennis player, and then actually start building towards that, because I think we're all well aware when she did win the US Open, she was not a real professional tennis player. She qualified into the event like,

just turning pro more or less, like had a good run at Wimbledon, but the same thing, quality did, like getting her feet underneath her, like what does it look like to train for an entire year to play at this level, play this kind of schedule against these grown women? You know, that was four years ago. She's now 22 years old. feel like she's in the position to make a, not just make a career, right? Because this is what we're talking about being a professional tennis player here.

She is top 20 material, but she is a very, she is a flawed tennis player like most tennis players are. She has things to work on and I think we're talking about that now as opposed to talking about the US open of things. So I just generally feel good about where she is in her journey, getting a fair shot at.

Torrey (44:45.436)
I like her trajectory. There's no question about that. I think this tournament could either answer a few question marks and really put her on really stable ground, solid ground for her future. Or it could still lead those same question marks unanswered. And to your point, Alvin, at 22, she has a lot of time to answer them. I personally think that...

Ashley Spicer (44:51.323)
Make your break.

Torrey (45:09.419)
Unfortunately, the burden of proof is on Emma Ratakano right now and we'll see. So that's, she's 100 % show me state right now.

Alvin Owusu (45:19.085)
Yeah, I mean, I didn't say she's top 10 material. I said she's top 20 material. I mean, she can't dictate with a forehead. Like, I'm sorry, like, there's kind of a ceiling put on her head there.

Torrey (45:22.699)
I agree with you and and and yet and yet she's with a great year she's still not seated and that's what I'm getting at and I'm with you I agree with you 100 % I'm just saying to your point right to your point so anyway

Alvin Owusu (45:39.919)
Okay, fair. Alright, that's fair. I think we're all in the same space then. That's okay.

Torrey (45:43.209)
Yeah. And, and I think all of us want nothing but the best for her. She, her resurgence means great matches in the round through one through four space. And it means great matchups and for her to get there clearly she's not push somebody out, elbow somebody out to get there. But I would, I would be one of the first to look forward to her. We had the podcast earlier, Alvin, I was telling you, I think I told you Emma Rodicano is a legit player. I'm now ready for her to take it up a notch.

Because right now I see her more as top 30. You know, on a good day, I don't see her as top 20 just yet, but she could, she certainly has the game to get there. No question. And has the time to get there to do so.

Alvin Owusu (46:24.814)
Okay, Ashley is Jessica Bagula on the way out.

Ashley Spicer (46:31.862)
gosh, you know, I think we've got to give her a little bit more credit. I think, you know, she obviously has the skills. I think she obviously has, I think she has a lot of the right pieces. And I think it's a matter of her putting those pieces together for a deep run here. But.

I don't see her as on her way out. I really don't. think it's easy to see some of, especially on the American side, some flashes in the pan and be like, they're on their way out because they didn't do XYZ.

Torrey (47:01.578)
Thank

Ashley Spicer (47:05.232)
But I like her game and I like her attitude and I think, you know, I like her professionalism that she brings to the court. And I think that comes from, you know, her family background and being around professional athletes. And this is what you do in the cell. You behave. think her attitude towards the mixed doubles, you know, makes me feel a little give me a little confidence in her. I know that might be a weird take there, but her saying like this isn't an exhibition. You know, let's give credit where credit's due. We are here to play for some money. She takes it seriously and she cares about it. And that to me is what sometimes I feel like is

Torrey (47:31.302)
Yep. Yep.

Ashley Spicer (47:35.256)
in some players where they wanna act like they don't care, they wanna act like it's not important to them. You know it's important to her, she brings a professionalism to the game that I can appreciate. I would love to see her make a really good run here this year, I would be really excited about that.

Alvin Owusu (47:50.467)
Okay, I mean she did final the event last year, right? She conquered some demons, she got past her quarter final hump, she beat Ega, she did a lot of positive things, got outclassed in the final, no shame there whatsoever. But I feel like we haven't seen the follow up this year, right? So is this a, is this a, just one of those years where it's just not going well for her as well as she would have hoped? Like she finished with three in the world last year, something like that?

Torrey (47:50.859)
.

Ashley Spicer (47:53.574)
Correct.

Alvin Owusu (48:19.532)
And she's seeded four here as well, but now we're looking at a lot of points to defend, not that that's the most important thing. But I guess my more pointed question is, and Tori maybe you can take this one, do we feel like that final of the US Open is going to be the top achievement for her?

Torrey (48:40.474)
I want to start off by clarifying that's a pretty good top Alvin if you told me my career was going to be defined by a Grand Slam Final I would take it I would I would run to your house on foot

Ashley Spicer (48:49.989)
Okay.

Torrey (48:50.938)
and be like, Alvin, I'll take that right now. And I would attempt to run back. And we live quite a distance apart from each other. I would simply just say that to say, Alvin, that let's just make sure we're calling what it is. I look back on certain players' career. I just hung out with Melanie Udan the last three or four days at this coaching conference. you know, Melanie looks back at how great of a run she had to get to the quarters, right? And I say that to say,

Ashley Spicer (48:55.324)
I'm

Ashley Spicer (49:08.604)
He's great.

Torrey (49:19.274)
You you think about how everything just fell into place. We were talking about her, about her run some years, those years ago. So to have it get to the final is a great accomplishment. Second, do I think she will show us some magic this year? I think she will show us a great Jessica Bagula consistent performance. I think if someone's able to catch her on her 80 % to 75 % day and they play unreal, is she beatable? Jess is always beatable, right? As are most players.

And do I think that her consistency has a higher range, right? Than most I do. Do I think, and I've said this before on this podcast, that she is the door to top five in the world. I do. She's, she's, she's, she's the key maker and the matrix. I also don't know if she has the extra to get to one or two. Do I think she could win one? I do. It'll take some special circumstances. It'll take some stubbing of the toe from some other players. It'll take something else to happen.

If those were to happen, she could sneak through and win one of these. For sure. She's a hundred percent professional. I agree with you a hundred percent. I just, you know, while she hasn't had a banner year, she's still a four seat Alvin. And that just, to me, that speaks to JPEG's consistency. You know, even on a bad year, she's still four seat. She's still top five in the world on a year where she hasn't reached as far as she would like to. do I think that she is a favorite to win this? I don't. Do I think...

Ashley Spicer (50:36.7)
Right.

Torrey (50:44.808)
that she will be everybody's bad day. And you're like, oh, playing Jessica. Yes, I do. And I think that's one of the things on hard court, which is her favorite, her home turf, defending, defending finalist, you know, do I see her being an arena this year? I don't. Do I see her having a chance to go three if arena is not bringing it? I do. It's just, but again, it's more on the other player, not on JPEG. JPEG, what she gives you is what you see is what you get. And she's going to give you a lot. And if you're, if you're good enough,

to take it from her, so be it. You know, that can happen. If you're not, JPEG will be quarter semis finals again this year.

Alvin Owusu (51:18.316)
So that is the JPEG that we've known for the past three years. And I have said the same thing. She is the litmus test for top five women's like hands down. I got no qualms with that. But what I've seen this year is non-JPEG type results. Starting, going all the way back to the French Open. Yeah, Luis Bosal was surprising a lot of people.

Torrey (51:30.344)
100%.

Torrey (51:38.76)
Sure. Sure.

Torrey (51:46.773)
Everybody's bad day. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (51:48.323)
Let's throw that out, right? Her losses after that, like, Ludmila Samsonova, good player, 20 in the world, but that's a match JPEG usually wins, right? Because of what, exactly, cut your reda, right? Loss of her first round of Wimbledon. I mean, maybe we just chalked that up to a bad day, but now we're starting to see things, and she loses to Leila Fernandez in the first round of DC. Again, now, these things happen, but...

Torrey (51:56.552)
Grand slam champion doubles, mean to your point, yeah.

Yeah, windy, yeah.

Torrey (52:10.842)
Alvin Owusu (52:15.246)
We just said that she is the standard bearer for consistency. So this is, Okay, okay, so now back to my question. When do we start showing some level of concern for Jessica Pagula? That is my question.

Torrey (52:19.56)
She is, and she's 30 years old. let's, I don't, yeah. Yep.

Torrey (52:33.896)
2026.

Ashley Spicer (52:34.198)
I think it's definitely throughout this year. think if she has a similar year next year, I think then we ask this question, next year is US Open. But I think we got to give her the respect that she deserves and she's earned and give her another year. I think there's a little bit of that sophomore slump and that's, know.

Torrey (52:38.982)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (52:41.336)
Okay.

Torrey (52:48.476)
Yeah. Especially through the hardcore season in particular, which is where she shines. Alvin, you and I were talking with this during the podcast where she put the breaks on a very surgent Alex Ialla, you know what I mean? And was able to hold off the young upstart. She wasn't playing great tennis then, but that was the consistent. Again, back on hardcore. Jessica and I love Jessica. I know Jessica personally.

Alvin Owusu (52:49.07)
Absolutely. Okay.

Torrey (53:18.019)
She's never been the swiftest of foot. She's never had the most unreal touch and feel. Jessica does what she does very, very well. And as far as I'm concerned, Jessica's overachieved on a lot of levels and through just work and belief and absolute crushing of the tennis ball has got to four, which I didn't think she'd get to at all. So the fact that she went to three and it's come down to a lowly four and it's had a few, and had a few people kind of surprised her. I'm like,

Ashley Spicer (53:38.79)
See.

Torrey (53:47.687)
That can happen. I think 2026 when we start looking to be concerned, she's already made an article about she didn't plan on playing that long. She has been through more surgeries, more injuries, more everything than many players her age. And she's that that consistency also has a cost on the wear and tear of your body. Do I think she can finish this year pretty strong? I do. Do I think 2026, 2027? And when she starts to fall off a little bit, I think Jessica will be the first person to tell us. And then at that point, we it'll go from concern.

to allow so last tournament to shoot. We miss Jessica Pagula. I think that will all happen fairly quickly between 26, 27, 28 as that two years as she's already prescribed happens.

Alvin Owusu (54:30.861)
Okay, all right, okay, 26. We'll check back in. I'll give it few months. I said what I said. I said what I said

Torrey (54:34.439)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I I say give it 18. I say give it 18 and she's still even that day she's gonna be.

Alvin Owusu (54:40.493)
18 months? 18 months?

Torrey (54:43.567)
I think that's her window.

Ashley Spicer (54:46.268)
You

Torrey (54:49.377)
You disagree? I'm talking about between playing and retiring. Playing and retiring. I'm not talking... I'm talking about retiring.

Alvin Owusu (54:49.537)
Hmm. Hmm.

Ashley Spicer (54:50.128)
Let's see where we're at next year at the Open, you know.

Alvin Owusu (54:53.387)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not talking about retiring. No, no, no, no, no. People retire whenever they want. Venus is still playing. What does retirement mean? I don't know what it means. mean, it means nothing to me. It means nothing to me. I'm talking about the player that you, that we know and love right now. When is she no longer that player? That's all I'm saying. Okay, I can, let's pick this conversation up after the Australian Open then. How about that? I'll leave it alone. I'll leave it alone. And then Tori's always compromised when it comes to Jessica Magula.

Ashley Spicer (55:01.244)
There is no such thing.

Torrey (55:09.634)
18

Ashley Spicer (55:16.092)
Fair enough. Fair enough.

Alvin Owusu (55:22.379)
Moving on down.

Torrey (55:23.128)
What up, JPEG?

Ashley Spicer (55:23.972)
Before you speak over this, Alvin, think you did skip over, you know, a player that I think if she can get hot, it's always great. Azarenka, I don't think you can ever count Azarenka out. She's definitely on the back half of her career. The fact that she's even in this draw unseated is a little bit of a shot to the heart a little bit just because you know that her previous level was so much higher.

Torrey (55:42.394)
Yeah.

Torrey (55:46.982)
And you're to blame.

Ashley Spicer (55:51.324)
Yeah, but I do I do think that you can't ever count her out. And I think that she has the potential to get to around three round four here, potentially even a quarters, depending on how some people shake out. And I think that if it gets to it, she would be a good test for Jessie. That would be a really good test for Bagula there to see if she can really get through that and beat the player she should. So I think you can count her there.

Alvin Owusu (56:15.509)
And so I appreciate you bringing it up because I also, I get sucked into the stars of our, I'm gonna say our youth, but the ones that we came up with, right? And she fits right in there. Azarenka was that, yeah, she's right in there. But like from a, this tournament's being played now, like right now. And I would not put any amount of money against, you know,

Torrey (56:21.821)
Yeah.

Torrey (56:28.102)
Yep.

Ashley Spicer (56:28.954)
Right. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (56:38.15)
Correct. Correct.

Alvin Owusu (56:44.029)
on her if she's playing Pavlova Chekhov or Yastrinskaya. Like I just feel like that either one of them should be losing to her. But if we get to a point where we've got Ozarenka Pugula in the third round, fantastic, great for the sport, great for the fans, I'll be watching, hell, actually I'm gonna be there next week, Thursday, Friday, so I would actually be there watching this match. I'll back up my stance here.

Torrey (56:58.423)
Yep. Yep.

Ashley Spicer (57:08.412)
Hahaha

Torrey (57:12.677)
I'm going to push back just a little bit on that Ashley, just to say there's been nothing of note. Vika is fun, was phenomenal. And I think we all have to just tip our hat to what she's been able to accomplish her body of work. There's a player at the bottom of this situation in Belinda Binchich that I thought could conjure up some, some old tennis and we saw it in the last tournament and the last slam. And it just didn't seem like she was able to

Ashley Spicer (57:12.806)
There you go.

Torrey (57:42.147)
to put a lot of her best tennis in front of us, which helped me understand how good she used to be and helped me understand how, you know, I don't care what gender you want to give it father time, mother time, time is undefeated. You just have to appreciate that. And Vika is always great to watch. I miss her. I miss the Vika of old, but this game wears on you. And I'm my only pushback is just from a physicality standpoint.

it's just insane. I say that as a segue into Belinda into Belinda. I think that might be a very generous seating and there is about three other players that I could see. She may run into a bus. So, you know, all things being considered because just an older version, although a powerful, more powerful version and a maybe highly more highly decorated one. I feel like this is a, these, these are the matches for.

Ashley Spicer (58:10.492)
Sure, up there.

Torrey (58:37.048)
the players in this Pavlyachinkova Samsonova, you know, to get through if they are trying to say, look, it's our turn. that's what those on Ford, Shumkova, that's what these players, that's the purpose they now serve in the tennis food chain, in my opinion.

Alvin Owusu (58:56.717)
Well said, well said. I feel good about that. gotta, these experienced players, you can't expect them to just roll over. You need to push them out. And this is what the younger players are supposed to do. They're supposed to push them out. All right, let's move forward here. We got some tasty matchups here. I feel like this is kind of a broken record. I wanna ask it in a different way. Is anyone concerned about Emma Navarro?

Torrey (59:10.318)
Right. Yep.

Ashley Spicer (59:10.342)
sure.

Torrey (59:16.708)
Solomon.

Torrey (59:26.37)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (59:26.739)
at all because she does not have the same amount of you know body of work that Jessica Bugula has. We have one year of high level results from Emma Navarro and then this year we're seeing a different level of results from Emma Navarro. So at some point maybe we're finding what her actual level is. Maybe it's neither of the two years. I don't know but I do know that she's had some

Torrey (59:34.244)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (59:55.403)
She had some trouble backing up last year's results. This would be a fantastic place to write the ship.

Torrey (01:00:01.773)
She's, this is what Ashley referred to earlier that I thought was well deserved for Emma Navarro. And that's, and that's no shame on Jess. Jess has proved herself for 10 years on the tour and done what people did not think she could have. I actually find it funny when people talk about her because I think she's overachiever. So I can't call it a slump when you never thought she'd get there.

Emma, I think has a lot of physical tools. She has a lot of, from her speed or feel. And unfortunately, Alvin, as, you and Ashley both know this well, players that have that level of what, when their category they lead in the steals and not aggressive point play or construct point construction, you're always putting a little bit of the onus on the offensive player. Can they connect and finish versus can I have a chance to steal?

And I think Emma has ran to a few people that have been steel proof. They've had some ADT security on their situation. They've had the club on their steering wheel and haven't allowed the lockdown. They haven't allowed that situation to be picked. I think she's in a very good draw for her. A lot of these players from Mboko to Osterpinko to Taylor to McNally to, mean, Danilovic. There are so many players that play aggressive and this as strong as this section is.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:59.358)
Lockdown.

Torrey (01:01:19.97)
There are a lot of people that play the ball pretty solid and that actually aids in Emma's matchups. So I think, you know, do I think she's due for a good tournament? I do. Am I worried? No, not worried. She's also a billionaire father. She's doing this for the love. She ain't doing this for the jingle, but I think she needs a certain kind of a matchup to me. And Ashley, I want you to finish. She needs a certain kind of matchup to really show well.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:29.846)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (01:01:32.081)
Thank

Ashley Spicer (01:01:39.9)
True.

Torrey (01:01:47.201)
And unfortunately that matchup is not Egos Fiontech and others that play like her and maybe just a tad better version of her. I don't think we've seen the real Emma Navarro. Alvin, I'll be honest, that's my one last take. We will yet to decide it. She hasn't yet finished developing herself at that level. So sophomore slump, she's not yet finished. And this is a great draw for her to really kind of get back to form. Ashley.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:00.182)
There you go.

Ashley Spicer (01:02:12.828)
I completely agree. I think she is such a, if she's fully dialed in and she's hitting all of her marks, she's unbeatable, right? We've seen her make deep runs even this year and what you could say is a slump year. She's had some good runs, she's beaten some top players. I think back to Wimbledon and the Merida Open and all of these tournaments where she brought her pretty high level, right?

But to your point, Tori, it is kind of on the other player's racket a little bit of what are they bringing to the table? Are they gonna wipe the court with her? Are they gonna move her off the court enough? Or is she gonna be able to kind of hang in there and win some tough points? I struggle seeing her make a deep run again this year. think you've got to look at the, what is that, the potential round four matchup with Andreva. I just, I don't envision her getting past that. Never say never, but

Torrey (01:02:36.597)
up.

Torrey (01:03:01.548)
Yeah. I'm looking at that in Boko, possible in Boko and Navarro Max. That to me could be a solid one there. Should both players get that far.

Ashley Spicer (01:03:06.605)
I think she'd be well to get to the round of three, third round here.

Torrey (01:03:19.999)
That to me is going to be a tough one there because that now to me, don't think. Yeah, that, that, that one's and, and, and, in focus got to play Krijgjikovic. mean, that's, that's it. There's, I just liked the way this section pans out to get to said matchup. And that's my point when I say, and Emma, if Emma had played her in the Canadian open, I'm just not so sure that.

Ashley Spicer (01:03:23.494)
So I'm glad you brought her up.

Alvin Owusu (01:03:26.676)
Hahaha

Torrey (01:03:47.093)
that she may have finished the way she did if she had played a really dialed in Ema Navarro type. Osaka used to be the poster child for that game style, right? I think we all can appreciate the counter punishing that she used to bring to the table. And she's just not that same Naomi Osaka. And we saw that about and as happy as I was to see her reach the final, right? It's just to say that game. So she put a lot of big pitters.

And she played a lot of players that she could go through and who, you know, let's face it, they take their cuts with the ball. Hey, I'll hold serve when I, when it's my turn. And I think Emboco really played, did a nice job of, of handling the draw she was given. I, that's my thing with Emma. Emma has not had a lot of ideal matchups in her draws. I don't like that side of her game right now, but again, also fairly young, although she's had several years in college and she's playing. just, I think that's the part of her game that she will, she will still develop, but this, this is a very nice.

draw to see who comes out of it. And I think whoever comes out of this is going to be the better for having matched up to those different types to get this far.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:56.428)
I think the Khritikov and Boko match is super, super interesting. Vicki Hallease had a great run in Canada, skipped Cincinnati, but she's played a lot of tennis this year. Her results have been up and to the right pretty much all year long, starting from early 300s up to now she's seeded at the US Open. This is now the point though where we're starting to get to some serious players.

Torrey (01:05:01.195)
Super good. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:25.632)
Barbara Krzysztof is a very serious professional tennis player and it is not going to be a run around and retrieve until Elena Rubakina gets frustrated, right? Barbara is gonna be bringing out the knife, she's gonna be coming forward, she's gonna be showing off all the tools that got her those singles and doubles grand slams. And Barbara seems healthy right now, she's well the last few weeks on hard court.

Torrey (01:05:29.495)
Yep.

Torrey (01:05:34.753)
Right. Yep.

Torrey (01:05:50.34)
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, it is. It's a great word, test.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:55.469)
That's me know health's kind of been the the dicey factor for her. So that match is a That's one of those tests kind of matches like if you're gonna if you're gonna be a professional tennis player at this level Like this is a this is a test so I and I don't I got I got no call on it I just feel like that's that's a that's a a match to watch That might be one of the best first round matches that we've got actually

Torrey (01:06:10.805)
Yeah.

Torrey (01:06:14.785)
And to my point about Emma Ashley, and they will play each other first before any of them gets to Emma. So it just helps Emma. I'm also looking at the same thing. I got to you guys, I'm a little intrigued with this Taylor Townsend and Yolanda Ostapenko match. mean, that should have get that far, which it looked like it should. That's going to be a tough situation just on match up alone. Taylor will not let Ostapenko play the way she wants to play. And being lefty and Ostapenko has that back and it's all day. mean, Taylor's

Ashley Spicer (01:06:15.036)
Correct.

Ashley Spicer (01:06:22.012)
Correct. Yeah.

Torrey (01:06:44.81)
Taylor knows how to slice, how to come forward and she's gonna run Yelena. She's gonna come in, she's gonna do her usual, no ground strokes, all volleys in the warm up and take serves. so those are each of the players that I think that could give her some trouble, all play other troublesome people first. it's not so much, but again, isn't that what you need? You need a favorable draw, you know what I mean? And as far as I'm concerned, some of the people in this draw from Barbara to Yelena, even Taylor, Mira.

Ashley Spicer (01:07:03.74)
Sure. Sorry.

Ashley Spicer (01:07:08.902)
video.

Torrey (01:07:13.568)
are all playing other people before they get to her. You know, as I say, we'll see how it shakes out.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:21.3)
And not for nothing, a factor to be considered always in New York is the weather, right? It does tend to get pretty hot during the U.S. Open, but we've got 70s next week. Week one in the 70s, I just had to double check that, but like that's, when you talk about someone like a Taylor Talented going against an Osipenko, right? If it gets hot, that changes, that's a variable that needs to be considered, but when we're taking that out, right, you have some players who typically don't do well in warm weather.

Torrey (01:07:33.365)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:50.284)
who are gonna be able to find maybe their top game a little bit easier in week one. yeah, you guys good to keep dancing here. Alicia Parks, quick sidebar. Is she ready for this? Is she ready to be somebody?

Ashley Spicer (01:07:58.875)
Yeah.

Torrey (01:08:08.255)
She better be. She's playing Mera. She better be. She better be ready.

Ashley Spicer (01:08:11.772)
You

Torrey (01:08:13.468)
I think Alicia is a very solid young lady. I'm happy to see another Atlanta player get out there. Alvin, you're never ready until you go out there. You know, we talk with Scott about this, right? You're never ready until you get out there and you see how fireproof what you're wearing is. What I will say is heck of a matchup for her. Mira has a

very sneaky power. goes, she doesn't go through you like an Ega. She doesn't go through you like a Sabalenka. She has the ability to crush back hands. She rolls some forehands. She'll get the net. She's well coached. She's well conditioned and she has a lot of tools. But if there's anybody for her to try to strike up and use her athleticism for, know, Alicia is, Alicia moves well. Alicia is feisty. Alicia has the slice. She has some things that can throw her off, but she's going to have to.

If she were to take this max three sets, I would have the utmost respect for where her game is going forward. as far as.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:11.199)
What if I?

Torrey (01:09:14.793)
Please.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:15.359)
What if I told you, because I'm not making this up, happened, Alicia just beat Emma yesterday in three sets.

Torrey (01:09:21.48)
Emma Navarro?

Alvin Owusu (01:09:24.425)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey (01:09:25.055)
Emma Navarro. Again, in that kind of a matchup, Emma doesn't have the weapons that Mira does. So I would actually see that being more likely than, and that's my point, I'm saying it's the player she's playing. And that's been Emma's problem. Emma.

Ashley Spicer (01:09:39.58)
Mmm.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:41.899)
Actually, what do you?

Alvin Owusu (01:09:51.263)
Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, Tori. Where were you?

Torrey (01:09:53.445)
No, I was saying that's been Emma's problem. She's played, she's come up against some buzzsaws and I'm saying, and she needs a favorable type of matchup with her ability to counter, counterpunish if she can, an aggressive type of player. That's in a sense what Alicia does to a good degree. And I'm saying that if she were to play another one, a player like her, I can see her giving the edge on that.

I don't think Mira is that type of player. And that's my point. And that's why I'm saying she's got, she, Alicia has a long way to go to get to Emma in this section of the draw. And she just happens to be going up against one five seed Mira Andreeva in the mix. And that's different player.

Alvin Owusu (01:10:40.267)
doing actually.

Ashley Spicer (01:10:40.284)
My, you I'm gonna put myself out here. I'm a big, you know, Mira fan. I'm excited to see her at this US Open. I think she's, you know, coming into it. know, you know, she's got some ankle issues, hopefully that she's overcome, but she's my dark horse favorite. I have to, I'm gonna put it out there. I'm gonna put myself in the line. I think, yeah, we're going there. Let's get to the meat and potatoes of the whole thing. She's got an it factor that,

Torrey (01:10:57.438)
I agree with that.

Alvin Owusu (01:10:57.779)
Wow. wow.

Alvin Owusu (01:11:04.906)
Wow.

Ashley Spicer (01:11:10.044)
when she's on, she's on. And I think that she's, I think your point, Tori, that she doesn't necessarily hit through you. It's a sneaky power. And I think, but she's got the size, she's got the movement, she's got this power. I think she could do something here this year.

Torrey (01:11:29.187)
I think this draw favors. Yeah, this draw favors Mira of anybody through this. Yeah. And, and, actually I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to back you on that. think this, why not Mira? Right? Why not Mira? I mean, as far as, far as it's concerned. And again, she's still got youth on her side. She's had a couple of great results so far up to this year had some, had some actions.

Alvin Owusu (01:11:29.515)
Okay, you said that out loud on the internet and people do listen to this podcast, so.

Ashley Spicer (01:11:35.694)
And when I'm right.

Yeah.

Torrey (01:11:55.304)
Didn't she lose to Benchits? Wasn't that the match she lost to? And Wemby, wasn't that the tough one, if I'm not mistaken? I don't know, I could be wrong on that one. I thought, kind of a weird match. But Melinda just literally out, just out whatever it hurt. It was one more ball, one more drop shot, sneaking in when she's supposed to. All the veteran things she could conjure up, she did. And I think that kind of-

Alvin Owusu (01:12:05.068)
Yeah, she lost to Belinda 6-6. Yeah. Yeah, she lost to her 6-6.

Torrey (01:12:22.654)
kind of showed it was a level that Mira wasn't necessarily expecting from Belinda, however. And again, used it, probably used it all up in that match because I don't think the next match was as competitive, much like Amanda's match against Sabalinka and then going to the final against Iga. I say it to say, I back you up on that Ashley. it's, there's going to be that tournament where she gets to at least a final in one, in this slam. And this could be that tournament. So while we're talking about Emma.

The story of this draw, would wholeheartedly agree with you. The story of this section of the draw, Alvin, is Mera Andreva, in my opinion.

Alvin Owusu (01:13:00.427)
Okay, I'm all right. All right, let's keep bouncing. You said it's noted, it's noted.

Ashley Spicer (01:13:01.852)
Thank you, Tori.

Torrey (01:13:03.999)
Here's here and Ashley here here's where here's where your boy Alvin has he always stubs his toe he's got just like I am with Jessica he is with Madison Matt let's hear it go ahead go ahead get it out

Alvin Owusu (01:13:17.223)
No, no, no, no, no. Look, okay.

Ashley Spicer (01:13:19.244)
Get it out, get it out.

Alvin Owusu (01:13:22.557)
I don't talk about Madison, I try to avoid talking about Madison because I know that it's not healthy for me. It's not healthy. If we find ourselves come day 10 of this tournament and she's still playing, then we can address it in the back half of the second week. But I don't need talk about it today. She should be fine against Zara Zua. She should be fine. Nothing to talk about. Nothing to talk about.

Ashley Spicer (01:13:31.886)
It's abusive relationship.

Torrey (01:13:40.198)
But. You didn't say Petra, though you didn't you didn't talk about too much.

Ashley Spicer (01:13:46.102)
I, you know, Alvin, I actually, you know, kind of want to bring your question about Pugula to Keys.

Alvin Owusu (01:13:57.18)
No, no, not Petra. No, come on, Petra is retiring. Like I got nothing to say. The same thing like Azarenka. you know, big serving lefty. Like, no. I said that at Wimbledon where she had won the tournament twice and she looked like she was already on permanent vacation. Ashley, what was your question?

Torrey (01:14:02.333)
Exactly. So she's going to be lacing lefty bombs for old times sake.

Torrey (01:14:17.122)
But she already got her time share rental forwarded out.

Ashley Spicer (01:14:17.5)
I was gonna say, think, you know, we have to echo back.

Yeah, Alvin, think we got to echo back your question about Pugula. think we've got to apply that to Madison Keys this year.

I'm partial to her. I think I'm always partial like you were saying to, especially some of the Americans that have come through and really done some things, but it has been hard to see her peaking at the right time for this. Now, I hope she proves me wrong. I always want to see a good deep run, but I'm wondering how much longer she has in the tank, if I'm being real honest. I don't know if we're having the same conversation about her next year.

Alvin Owusu (01:14:58.987)
Yeah, you know, here's where I am with Madison, right? She's having a solid year. It will turn out to be a great year because she's paired that solid year with a grand slam, right? So that's what it is. If you take the grand slam out, she's playing at the level of someone ranked between 15 and 20, which is kind of where she's been the vast majority of her career, 10 to 20, somewhere in there.

Torrey (01:15:19.3)
Okay.

Torrey (01:15:23.382)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:15:27.945)
she did win a Grand Slam, so that's what we're working off of. I think she's more or less still the same player, just a little calmer between the years, so that's allowing her to get to maybe around further in events that she would normally, as I say, around the 16th, she gets to the quarterfinals. So I'm at peace with whatever Madison is able to produce in New York this year. I'm fine with it.

Torrey (01:15:51.7)
Cheetah.

Alvin Owusu (01:15:56.841)
the gift that she gave me in Australia, like I'll never forget it in my life. I will never forget it. I cried watching a women-winning tennis match. like, I'm good. Can't say, you can't tell me nothing, Tori. You can't tell me nothing. I'm...

Torrey (01:15:58.172)
Alvin, Alvin, just as long as we are on the same page, I see her retiring before JPEG does. And let me tell you this, I cried with your brother. I was so happy for Madison. I felt like I felt like the tennis gods did me a disservice by having her place loan.

Ashley Spicer (01:16:02.36)
you

Torrey (01:16:27.353)
that opened. I had to pick one, you know what I mean? And so the fact that they have both won one now, have, I am extremely happy. Do I see her going deep, deep? Not necessarily, but if anybody could, it's her. I think she's got 18 to 24 as well. I'm just happy every year we get, every day we get Madison is a good day. It's all I would say.

Ashley Spicer (01:16:30.972)
Yeah.

Torrey (01:16:50.883)
Mojova and Venus. What do you go with? Who's got that one?

Alvin Owusu (01:16:51.498)
Okay, let me ask this question. they gonna put Venus against Muhova on Ashe as the women's match? Oh no, please don't. Because Carolina is going to carve her up, please don't. No one needs to see that. Like, day session, Louis, that would be nice. First match on Louis, like 11 a.m.

Ashley Spicer (01:16:55.237)
Yeah!

Torrey (01:16:59.461)
Don Skippy. Don Skippy.

Ashley Spicer (01:17:00.571)
have to.

How do you not? How do you not?

Torrey (01:17:05.839)
Don Skippy.

Ashley Spicer (01:17:16.399)
No way.

Torrey (01:17:19.237)
Didn't she didn't look great on Louie and mixed say that.

Ashley Spicer (01:17:19.322)
No, it's one of, I think that's, I think it's one of the, it's my top five first round match to watch.

Torrey (01:17:25.381)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:17:26.058)
To watch, to watch is different than, okay, why?

Ashley Spicer (01:17:28.282)
between men and women. That is top five first round matches at the open. That has to be, it's Venus. You have to put her nighttime at Ash. There's no way around that. I actually think it would be disrespectful to not put her nighttime at Ash. In round one.

Alvin Owusu (01:17:33.812)
What?

Torrey (01:17:34.779)
Got to.

Thank you. Thank you.

Alvin Owusu (01:17:43.784)
Okay. All right. I'm not pushing. I'm not pushing back because I don't think you're wrong. I just don't want to, I just don't really want to see it. I don't want to see it. I don't want to see it.

Ashley Spicer (01:17:49.125)
No

Ashley Spicer (01:17:58.682)
But what is Calvin? You can never count her out. You can never assume with Venus that she's out. I love her honesty and her transparency about why she's coming back and a little play on real life there. But who knows? She's still Venus Williams. Let's not forget who she is. Let's not forget what she's done.

Alvin Owusu (01:17:58.954)
I'll tell- okay, I'll-

Yay!

Torrey (01:18:19.462)
And she's got one match Ashley. She's got one good match in her. And that match could come against Carolina Mohoffa.

Alvin Owusu (01:18:20.362)
She'll be Venus Williams all her life. That's her name. My name is my name. Like...

Alvin Owusu (01:18:29.364)
We're not having this conversation if Payton Sterns doesn't poop her pants in DC.

Like that's the thing, like this is Peyton's service fault.

Ashley Spicer (01:18:36.198)
But of course, no, any, I mean, are you telling me that other people aren't gonna poop their pants against her? Come on. Come on.

Torrey (01:18:36.25)
We're not having this conversation if Venus didn't take care of business either.

Alvin Owusu (01:18:46.986)
Tori say that again.

Torrey (01:18:48.908)
I was only saying that we're also not having the conversation if Venus didn't play well in that same match as well. And I'm only saying to you, she's good for one match. Now, whoever gets through that match, let's say Venus gets through. Now, Sorana Sostella or Sierra would get a 45 year old next day, two days, three days later version. But I'm here to tell you that matchup could be tough for Carolina.

And I personally think it's a great matchup in this section of the draw. There are others, Katie Bolter who had a decent, you know, decent few matches there. I'm looking to Perry. I'm looking at Lease. There's a lot of good matches in this draw, but when I look, my name goes right down to the V and W at the bottom. And I'm like, let me just see was the match with Stearns a fluke. And at the very least I want to watch it. And I say that to say,

for all that she's given us. You know she's going to it her best. Whatever her best is remains to be seen, but you are playing a multi-time Grand Slam champ here. She's gonna be ready for round one, I gotta think.

Alvin Owusu (01:20:05.578)
I said what I said. I don't need to say anything else. I'm good. I got I got nothing else to say on that one

Torrey (01:20:08.163)
Push back, push back all you want. And it's a moot point. I don't think either are going to go that deep, whoever wins. of this matchup, that match is definitely one to watch. And Ash, I agree with you 100%. To not put that match on Ash is disrespectful. Whatever time of the day. But to not put that match on Ash is, you know, you're not paying homage to the former champ.

Alvin Owusu (01:20:35.656)
Okay, that's fine. She can have it. She can have the massive ass. That's fine. I round one night match. Cool. All right. That's fine. No problem. let's.

Torrey (01:20:37.826)
Hehehehehe

Torrey (01:20:42.009)
Can I lead with this last one as a question? I wanna ask you both about Naomi because this has been the biggest, I'm gonna say the biggest riddle to me is Naomi Osaka. I watched her play mixed. I watched her get to the final against Mboka. I watched her stub her with the barrettes in her hair in the French. I've seen six different Naomi's this year.

I'm still trying to figure out which one, which one is, will the real, Tushay, will the real Namco soccer please stand up, please stand up, please stand up. And my thought to you all is this, what are you two expecting from her? Who or where is she right now? Put coaching stuff aside, no offense to Patrick. I feel like he's a bit of a.

Alvin Owusu (01:21:12.138)
and six different coaches too.

Torrey (01:21:37.492)
manager more than a coach, no offense. I feel like there are some things that needs to happen. She played better in Canada, let's be honest. And I felt like she was almost there. Just played a younger version of a girl who was hungry like she was back in the day. won't, I won't preface anything more. What do you think Ashley? What do you think Alvin? What, what length, what depth, what

version of Naomi do you think we will see here? And I gotta tell you guys looking at this side of the draw with Cocoa, I just wanna say this. There aren't, there's a lot of depth in this draw and Cocoa's on the Schneid. I just wanna put that out there. Is this a decent draw? What's Naomi? How far in this draw and what are the implications? That's my questions.

Ashley Spicer (01:22:11.344)
Well, I think you.

Ashley Spicer (01:22:36.026)
So I think you hit it right on the head is we don't know what we're gonna get out of Osaka. And quite honestly, I've given up trying to figure it out. I think, you know, she has, it's all up to her. It's all depending on her mental, you know, where she's at mentally minute by minute, it seems like that can change. I, you know, while I think she's immensely talented, I commend her for coming back to the tour after having a baby. I love that.

Torrey (01:22:44.12)
There. There.

Ashley Spicer (01:23:03.502)
You never know what you're gonna get. And for me, unfortunately, that makes her a little bit of a non-factor. Like I can't really, I don't really invest my attention into her because it's like, she could play a great three game, she could play a great set and then completely fall off, right? Or she can, know, does she have the skills and the talent, the potential to win here? Absolutely, she's done it before. She could do it again. But we have no idea what we're gonna get. We have no idea what we're gonna get. I think her inconsistency,

Torrey (01:23:18.36)
No. No. No.

Ashley Spicer (01:23:33.406)
It speaks for itself, right? And unfortunately, I don't imagine that we'll be sitting here. I don't know if she'll even be around next year if I'm being real honest. So that's my take on her. I wish it was a different story. I wish it was a different story because I think she's immensely talented. But it is what it is at this point. Alvin, I'll leave you with your mom.

Torrey (01:23:41.592)
Mm. Mm. Mm. Yeah.

Torrey (01:23:58.872)
The contrarian speaks.

Alvin Owusu (01:23:59.83)
I'm gonna take the other side on this one because I think we have to take, we have to kind of, this is what I do. We have to zoom out and take a look at Naomi Osaka over the last, let's say since the beginning of 2024, right? Well, it's, mean, we get bogged down into the details of each match, but then when we take a look back, she's made strides, kind of steady strides up to this point from when she came back beginning of last year, right?

Ashley Spicer (01:24:07.524)
you

Ashley Spicer (01:24:14.62)
always.

Alvin Owusu (01:24:27.805)
for her to be seated in this event, think is, I'm a little shocked that that happened. Like, she's had a, like, that's the downside is that she's always fighting against her own history, not necessarily who she is right now as a player, right? So we only compare her to the four time Grand Slam champion, right? But I think if we, we need to put that to the side and compare her to who she is as a player right now.

Torrey (01:24:30.85)
Huge.

Yeah.

Torrey (01:24:42.731)
Right, right. It's the, the, it's the emiratekano situation, isn't it? You know?

Alvin Owusu (01:24:54.363)
Sure, sure, mean, and no player really needs to be judged further back than like 90 days. It's kind of like you are, you're the ball as well as you're hitting it right now, like Tori, you said it before. They are playing well right now. And right now, in the last tournament, I saw something, well, I she skipped Cincinnati, but in Canada, I actually saw a difference in her tennis. It seems like she's kind of found this spot of like,

Torrey (01:24:55.51)
Just much more decorated.

Torrey (01:25:17.343)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:25:21.671)
being able to hit the ball she wants to hit with just enough margin now that was even different from what I saw during the grass court tournament. So I saw her playing matches and I'm like, she actually looks a little better. Like I saw her in DC when she lost to Emma. I was there for that match and I was like, she's a little all over the place today, but there were glimpses of a little more margin, I'm seeing as...

Torrey (01:25:23.702)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey (01:25:39.798)
.

Torrey (01:25:46.972)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:25:50.319)
She's actually reading the ball a little bit better. She's not reacting so much. So I feel like you may interrupt me.

Ashley Spicer (01:25:56.558)
Okay, but can I interrupt you Alvin and say you are talking about skill of Osaka. That's not the conversation. That's not the factor you have to be considering here. It is her mental.

Torrey (01:25:59.974)
you

Ashley Spicer (01:26:10.778)
game, it's where she's at mentally. I mean, you can say she's seen the ball great. She could decide that she's retiring tomorrow, right? Like this is the type of consistency that she, inconsistency, rather, that she's demonstrated. And we can get a notice tonight as we're on, she's gonna retire, right?

Alvin Owusu (01:26:11.273)
Yes

Torrey (01:26:14.907)
So, thank

Alvin Owusu (01:26:19.944)
Yeah, but-

Alvin Owusu (01:26:26.697)
Right, and she could retire tomorrow. She could retire. She could be done next year. I think it's possible, it's possible, because she's talked about it, right? It seems like her goals are quite lofty in this comeback. It's not just like a victory lap. She's coming back to aim for Grand Slam Championships, and I don't know if she's going to get there. But I think it's important to notice that the quality of her tennis has improved, which if the quality of her tennis has improved, and she sees that to be the case,

Torrey (01:26:50.513)
Has improved. I agree with that. Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:26:55.579)
then she is more mentally locked in. mean, she, kept it together all the way until like the very last, you know, back into that match against Mboko for whatever reason. I'm not worried about Naomi. I, am I going to pick her to make a run in this section? Meh, no. But, but if she can string together two matches, now we're having a conversation because that, that, that shows me something. That shows me something. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (01:27:13.82)
I don't see it, unfortunately.

Ashley Spicer (01:27:22.364)
I never think it's about technical tennis with her. think it's all mental. think it's all on who she chooses to bring to the court that day. I think it's all about who she wants to be at any given moment.

Alvin Owusu (01:27:25.289)
About the-

Alvin Owusu (01:27:36.425)
Speaking of maybe ignoring the technical tennis, Coco, Tori you mentioned earlier, we'll get them back in a second. Yeah, so Coco has had a, she's had a time since winning the French Open, right? She's really had a time. Most of that time not the tennis she wants to be producing, right? And I saw she just let Matt Daly go.

Ashley Spicer (01:27:45.052)
think we're just... Is toy still on?

Okay.

Ashley Spicer (01:28:06.0)
Yeah, that's interesting.

Alvin Owusu (01:28:06.184)
I don't know if or I don't know who's gonna be replacing him if anyone's replacing him

Ashley Spicer (01:28:14.092)
She was just seen with a new guy. What's his name?

Alvin Owusu (01:28:17.538)
yeah, the guy, the biomechanic guy that that arena worked with. Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (01:28:21.607)
Yes. Yes, she's just been seen with him at this tournament. think it's fair to say that, you know, that's that's where she's at right now. You know, I'm not. I'm not. I don't like to get caught up in coaching changes and then relying on that to to bring success or failure and that being a factor, I mean.

she's got some things to bring to the court. think her level has dipped a little bit. And with that, her confidence a little bit. And I think she's a confidence player that that's what she's looking for. That's what's being, that's what's kind of elusive for her right now. I think she gets a couple of good wins under her belt, which I think she has the potential to do here, right? She's got, you know.

Alvin Owusu (01:28:53.702)
Right, right.

Ashley Spicer (01:29:08.772)
some tests, but nothing real dangerous for at least two to three matches. I think she builds that confidence. Maybe she's already feeling that from her new coach. I think she's dangerous. I think she's always, you know, always dangerous here and she's the three seed, right? She's earned that.

Alvin Owusu (01:29:21.852)
Well, the point that you made about Naomi, it being mental, that you just said with Coco, it's, know, she's not playing that well, which is impacting her mentally. I think that is the same argument I was making for Naomi. She is playing well. She's found some elevation in her level, which is allowing her to settle in and play, you know, be a little more mentally clear with the tennis she's playing.

to your point about Coco, you can see it written all over her face, the amount of, she looks a little lost right now, and she's stressed. It's like she is playing tennis with her ears wide open, and that is not a place you wanna be as a tennis player. And I do believe that Budas Manares is playing some really good tennis right now, and that is a, that's a,

Ashley Spicer (01:30:00.612)
He looks stressed.

Ashley Spicer (01:30:08.4)
Yeah. No, no, exactly.

Alvin Owusu (01:30:20.136)
That is a problem.

Ashley Spicer (01:30:22.044)
Potentially, potentially. think, I do think that I've seen more consistency from Coco, even in this year, even in this like, you know, grass court to hardcore, you know, quote unquote slump that she seems to be having. I still think.

I think she's got more consistency overall this year. I think she can pull it together. Maybe for her, this coaching change gives her that confidence where she doesn't feel like she's playing, I always say, eyes wide open. She looks like a deer in headlights a little bit the last few months. I always want to see her do well. I'm pretty partial to Coco.

Alvin Owusu (01:31:03.656)
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. I think we all want the best for her. It's crazy that we're having this conversation about her when she won the French Open a few weeks ago. It's a pretty compact schedule. We talked about this before. From the beginning of the French Open to the end of the US Open, it's like 100 days. You get three grand slams in 100 days. She's not that far away from the heights of her tennis, if you will.

Ashley Spicer (01:31:15.334)
Three months ago. Right.

Ashley Spicer (01:31:24.421)
right.

Ashley Spicer (01:31:29.308)
Correct.

Alvin Owusu (01:31:31.58)
So yeah, I would like to see her shake it out. I'd like to see her find some form. It's not the easiest, the easiest draw to work your way into. I imagine she handles some, but the thing is it's so dependent on her serve and that's the issue right now. I don't care if you've got a great draw or a crap draw. If you can't serve, that's, I can't, I'll take you down.

Ashley Spicer (01:31:43.184)
No, yeah.

Ashley Spicer (01:31:50.136)
is all about confidence, It's true. And I would assume that's her, that's the motivation behind bringing in the technical, biomechanical guru there. I just, again, I hope that she hasn't put too many eggs in that. Say that again?

Torrey (01:32:03.58)
New coach.

Torrey (01:32:10.397)
But a tough time to bring it up during the open, Ashley.

I said tough time to bring a biomechanic in during the open. I mean, this is a tough time to, you know, those kinds of changes should be made before an event like this, especially as a Grand Slam champ, a two-time Grand Slam champ. I agree with you. I'm going to say right here, Coco has had these serve issues off and on for the last four or five years. So to me, as a coach, this seems to me to be more of a mental issue.

Ashley Spicer (01:32:22.052)
Agree.

Ashley Spicer (01:32:36.508)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:32:37.852)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (01:32:44.507)
I don't care who's taking the fall forward at this point. said the same thing about Elena Dementieva years ago. At this point, it's on you. You've won tournaments with great serves. You won the French serving your bottle and returning phenomenal. You were a great doubles player. To have your serve go south, I'll put some of that on the coach and the team, but I'll put a lot of that on you for not continuing to work on your serve as a professional and just make sure you got that down. I gave Shaq a.

hard time for years for not working on free throws. You know what mean? I'd say the same thing about about Cocoa with a serve. Just saying.

Alvin Owusu (01:33:21.288)
And the gentleman's name is Gavin McMillan who worked with Arena and is now working with Cocoa. It's just like, I applaud the move itself, like bravo, but like to your point, Tory, it's like two days before the event, like, exactly, exactly, exactly. I mean, I feel like for a short term, Brad Gilbert might have been a better help for a few weeks.

Ashley Spicer (01:33:35.12)
What biomechanics are you getting done right now?

Thank you.

Torrey (01:33:42.386)
Or for that matter, why'd you lose them in the first place?

Ashley Spicer (01:33:45.796)
Well, but the reality is...

Yeah. I mean, the reality is that that gives her confidence. Okay, so be it, right? Maybe that's what's what's gonna work for her this time. You know, I'm excited to see her turning around. I think she's capable of it. And I'm hopeful that that's what comes out of this year for sure.

Torrey (01:33:56.955)
even better.

Torrey (01:34:04.593)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:34:09.895)
Amen. Alright, moving on down here, we'll keep bouncing. Interesting, you know, another one of these American, all American matchups here, Kennen versus Kruger, and Ashlyn is also ranked in the mid 30s. This is another one of those, the Alvin specials, god I love it so much. But, you what is it about to him? I don't know, maybe nothing. Maybe everything, but I'll be watching. It's a very interesting, it's an interesting matchup.

Torrey (01:34:26.754)
you

Ashley Spicer (01:34:32.187)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:34:38.469)
Louise Balsan is back with us again. The young lady after making her run at the French Open, what are you laughing at? What are you laughing at?

Torrey (01:34:47.194)
How does a girl that gets to the semis of the fresh not qualify for the the Wimby and that's what I'm laughing at I'm laughing at I'm laughing at you saying back with us because I'm like isn't that funny sorry I just I guess I had to say it

Alvin Owusu (01:34:51.671)
You know how that happens. You know how that happens. I just kind of have

Alvin Owusu (01:35:00.197)
Yeah, but she, you know, after that she's actually had a pretty good summer. She just won a 250, I think, last week. So she's like, she is a legitimate, it's not a flash in the pan situation. She's,

Torrey (01:35:09.722)
No, no, she's good. I'm just saying the rules should change. You get to that high, somehow there should be direct entry into the next slam. I'm just saying.

Alvin Owusu (01:35:13.721)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (01:35:19.91)
true.

Alvin Owusu (01:35:19.975)
What did they do for her? They gave her a wild card into qualities is what she got. And then she lost the first match. maybe Wimbledon's like, hey, know, see, told you. This section, I don't see any, Anasumova, how we feel about her, where her tennis is right now as far as backing up what we saw in London?

Torrey (01:35:23.982)
Right, right. Really? Really? Come on now.

Yeah.

Torrey (01:35:36.068)
And she's French. They're not doing the French any favors.

Alvin Owusu (01:35:51.751)
Ashley, seem like you didn't buy it.

Ashley Spicer (01:35:56.806)
I'm ambivalent. Here's what I'll say. There might be something there. Let's see what happens this tournament. I think this is the tournament where we see what's legit, what's real. Was it just a flash? Was it just a luck, you know? I'm not quite convinced just yet. Yeah, let's see what she does here. It's kind of where I'm at. I'm gonna wait and see hold pattern with her.

Alvin Owusu (01:36:23.975)
Okay, Tori, what's at you?

Torrey (01:36:25.899)
I think we're gonna see more good stuff from Amanda. I'm looking at all of the after golf. I'm looking at every one of the Stars and Stripes down through here all the way through. Glozeman at the bottom and I'm saying to myself she's got the best chance to have a deep run of anybody here whose name is not Pagula.

with an American flag next to her name. And I will say this to say, obviously besides Coco, I will say this to say, I think the hardcore matched up well for her. I think her game matched up well. I think she's eager to have a little bit of a grand slam rebound from that awful final that we watched. think she is still seething from that kind of a match. think we're just starting to see her play good and healthy and provided she's healthy. I see a lot of from Peyton.

to, you know, to Doleahyde to who are the two, Kennan and Krueger. I just see her having a little better all around body of work than these other ladies. And I feel like in this section of the draw, I feel like there's a lot of room to do some work. And I, you've got some older players in here that are, you know, from your Maria Sacaries and others that, and even Danielle Collins that could, you know, that are.

Ashley Spicer (01:37:46.448)
Just, was about to say, Tori, you missed the stars and stripes there without mentioning Danielle, I mean.

Torrey (01:37:50.768)
No, no, I did not miss Danielle. By the way, I saw Danielle take a swinging volley off a reflex volley, almost hit Taylor Townsend in the face. I mean, her hands are incredible. I think she should stop playing a little bit of singles and start playing more doubles. I don't see that as anything against her singles, but her doubles is actually pretty darn good. Her and Christian, I mean, in a set out there, I think the sex life got pretty close, she routine Taylor and Ben both.

Ashley Spicer (01:38:02.511)
Incredible.

Torrey (01:38:20.208)
Ben's ball did not affect her at all. Now, I also questioned if Ben was hitting the right ball. I don't want to go back to the mix, but I just have to tell you guys, I saw that match. I was there. Danielle Collins was probably one the better players on the court that day. So let me just put that out there to say that. I think she also has struggles with some mental things back and forth. I think there were some issues. I think she played Taylor right in that match. Not what, a weeks ago, was it? And she had a little bit of a mental situation. She's going through some things in her personal life.

Ashley Spicer (01:38:22.33)
Nah. No.

Ashley Spicer (01:38:39.932)
way.

Good. Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:38:43.621)
Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:38:48.923)
Back spasming up, shoulders not right. She's a little, she's, mean, this is what happens, right? We all get it, we get older, right? We get older things, we get more things to come up.

Torrey (01:38:51.667)
my god.

Right. So that's why I did not mention her name, Ashley. has nothing to with her game. I literally saw her be the best doubles player. And Taylor is a Grand Slam champion in doubles. So make no mistake, this is a phenomenal player she's played against. And to take a reflex volley after about three or four exchanges and take a swinger, I mean clean, she hit it like she was waiting for the next one. Like, hey, bring it back. And I'm looking at this saying, ooh.

Ashley Spicer (01:38:56.54)
and fall apart. Go.

Ashley Spicer (01:39:06.266)
Alright.

Alvin Owusu (01:39:07.345)
number one in the world.

Ashley Spicer (01:39:19.92)
Right. Right.

Torrey (01:39:21.87)
Danielle, whoa, you know what mean, easy now. Go ahead.

Alvin Owusu (01:39:24.199)
I wanna circle back, not to cut you off, but I wanted to circle back to the AnnaSmo thing because they just kinda hit me and I think, I feel like, and actually tell me if I'm wrong, what you guys are getting at about Amanda is her top level is always, we know her top level, we've seen it, right? We know how good she can be. I think it's the margin between her top level and her B game is what leaves us with a meh.

Ashley Spicer (01:39:53.37)
Yes. Yeah, there's a it's a wide spread there, right? It's a wide spread.

Torrey (01:39:53.519)
Question mark.

Alvin Owusu (01:39:54.521)
I don't know. I, it's, yeah, and like, she doesn't really have much B game, so like, cause she's not, I mean, she'll never be a great mover, right? She can, you know, she can get as fast as she's gonna get, as agile as she's gonna get, but her tennis is, it's very high risk. It's not, it is not inherently safe. I mean, that backhand though, you can put that thing in the, you know.

Torrey (01:40:06.425)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:40:22.616)
in the Louvre, it's perfect. But I think on hardcore, like that's where it becomes a little more of a, you know, even playing field for everybody. like, she win this tournament? Sure. Could she lose to Maya Joy in the second round? Yeah, sure. Probably not, but maybe. It's possible because she could have a day where she's not serving well and Maya's running all over the place.

Torrey (01:40:38.766)
.

Alvin Owusu (01:40:52.698)
That is the, until we've been proven otherwise, two or three slams down the road that this is the new, Amanda Anderson is back and better, but right now I think that's where I sit. I'm just, I want a little more evidence.

Torrey (01:41:00.719)
Alvin, I'm going to add to your point. I would agree with you if I didn't see some names. Maya Joint, Haddad Maya, Boisson, Zachary, you know, I just no offense to the players in this section of the draw. They're winnable. That's on paper on court.

Alvin Owusu (01:41:25.702)
They're winnable. She's better than all of them. She is better than all of them.

Ashley Spicer (01:41:29.222)
Sure.

Torrey (01:41:30.536)
and on hardcore. these were all, if this were a clay court situation, I'd be worried. Right? Even Svitolina who let's face it plays a lot like, is a lesser powered off the backhand side Amanda. Right? I don't see any of these ladies being able to go through on the backhand side. Amanda's got a pretty good serve. She's darn near six feet tall. She's younger than most of them. And if she's healthy, that's always a big question, but assuming she is.

Alvin Owusu (01:42:00.198)
She seems healthy, yeah.

Torrey (01:42:00.416)
I feel she seems healthy. She's looking healthy. And I do think there's a little bit of a edge on her to redeem herself from that final situation. I thought she did a great job in the, in the post game and the post in the press to admit to how poorly she played. But I think as a player, they has to get to you. think she may want to avenge her last televised performance to that level. And if there were anybody else in this draw,

I could see her beating. I would say it. I just don't. none of these players have that level. All of them can beat her. Don't get me wrong. She can have a bad day. But I don't see any of that can just beat her too. Yes, I that one. I saw that one. And honestly, I don't know. I just don't see Tatiana being able. I see Svitolina being able to give her a little more problems. Being able to do that more than her. Just for me. And again, and I.

Ashley Spicer (01:42:38.34)
You've got Tatiana Maria down in there as well, who's on the scene here.

Alvin Owusu (01:42:41.443)
Hehehehehe

Alvin Owusu (01:42:50.854)
I see Spitalino takes care of that. Yeah, yeah.

Ashley Spicer (01:42:53.18)
Sure.

Torrey (01:42:57.078)
And that's not just because I love mom fees. That's just because always and 100 %

Ashley Spicer (01:42:58.268)
She's always dangerous. feel like Tatiana is always dangerous. Like you said, there's a lot of parody in the women's game right now. just, you she's at, I think she's at the highest ranking of her career, right? Kind of on an upswing in 2025 unexpectedly. And I think that type of confidence makes her dangerous, right? And I think, you know, of course on paper, experience wise, you know, some of these, these Fidelina definitely should be able to handle her, but you never know, right? You just never know with her, especially this year.

Torrey (01:43:04.641)
Other.

Torrey (01:43:08.447)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (01:43:23.437)
Yep. That's that section Ashley that it looks, there's a lot of names you recognize and hey, hats off to the WTA. Alvin, I got to think the majority of these players are between 40s and 50s, give or take, right? Between 30 and 50. Right? So the fact, and a lot of them were former seats, right? I mean, from back to the COVID days to now. So this is not an easy section. I mean, make no mistake, it's not as deep as some, but I don't think there's many from what I'm looking at just off my eye test.

Ashley Spicer (01:43:42.523)
Yeah.

Torrey (01:43:53.485)
There's not many 16 out in this section either. this is like this is like round 32, round 16, round 32 in of a 1,000. I mean, these are all good players that would have made the cut at a 1,000 and they're all in the same draw. They're all in the same section of the draw. So it'll be a interesting piece. I do look to Amanda to push through in this situation.

Alvin Owusu (01:44:21.062)
All right, last, half of this final quarter here, Ega section. I've been so impressed with Ega. Like she is on one right now. What are you laughing at? What do you find to be so funny about that statement, Ashley?

Torrey (01:44:25.173)
EG

Ashley Spicer (01:44:37.542)
I mean, I like her, don't get me wrong. She's got a great game, obviously, she's number two in the world. I think of any of the former top two women's tennis players, I think she's very beatable. And to me, that's exciting.

Torrey (01:44:54.86)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Spicer (01:44:58.778)
You know, I hate to bring it back to mixed doubles. I know we're off of that. Spent enough time on that, but she's got some mental stuff there that I think is a little hidden and I think she does well to hide it. But once you break her mentally, I think she's, she really struggles, you know, with some of these, these, these top names. And I think she's going to get deep as usual, but does she get over the hump again? I just don't know. Just don't know this year.

Torrey (01:45:11.629)
.

Alvin Owusu (01:45:26.096)
You know, I would say, I say we all have some mental stuff under the surface that we're dealing with. So, so she's human, right? And I think that's the, you know, I feel like she did in the early part of her career when she became number one, she did a lot of running away from these things. And now I think she's had to face them kind of head on. And, you know, she's also 24. Like, I mean, she's still got a lot of like maturity as a person, but like we've got another four years of EGA, SUI Tech as,

like someone who is competing for the number one spot, not someone who is defending it all the time. And I think I like this version of Iga. like where she's at. She seems like she's okay with what you just said, like having to play tennis as a.

Torrey (01:46:01.352)
Okay.

Ashley Spicer (01:46:09.616)
But she likes to present herself as kind of this ice queen, right? Like her persona on the tour is kind of this icy queen, pretty, you know, pulled together. And I think that that, I think that sometimes if she could like let it out, I think I'd love to see that from her just a little bit more. You know what I mean? Like, I tend to always.

Torrey (01:46:21.707)
you

Alvin Owusu (01:46:27.526)
Well, I feel like we got it. I feel like we got it at Wimbledon though. Like it seemed like we got a little more of a little more of that. Like. It's I just I feel I mean, I say I say as much as I'm happy with the tennis that she's that I've seen her play in the last two months, but then also I've also been very impressed by Callen Sky in the last few months as well. So like we've got we've got a third round potential match up here that I am very intrigued in. How's guy can play?

Ashley Spicer (01:46:31.696)
Maybe,

Torrey (01:46:38.092)
I agree with Ashley from a standpoint of I think Wimbledon bailed her out this year. Her level of play give her credit.

Ashley Spicer (01:46:55.398)
short.

Alvin Owusu (01:46:57.328)
Like that woman can play. Go ahead, Tori.

Torrey (01:47:07.84)
bailed her out. But I think with Anissa Mova being in there, maybe not quite ready for the moment, with Irina not being there, giving her a chance to win, I feel like she had the rebound from the French that she hoped she would have to stay relevant in the Grand Slam conversation. I will push back on what Ashley said about her Icy Queen persona.

I think she just wants to win and she's a bit neurotic about winning as if that defines her. And I think that's a problem for her, but that's also part of what drives her. So is it one part manic? Yeah. Is it one part working? Yeah. So there's this issue that I see where she's at, but she's not won a grand slam this year. Does that make her more dangerous or less dangerous? I say it makes her more dangerous. She just got to the finals of this mixed to your point Ashley. We'll put a bow in it, but

You heard it right here. I saw, and I only saw this part on TV, it's already back. And I saw Naomi play mixed. And I'm going tell you, I saw six different, eight different top women play mixed doubles. And I have to tell you, Ego looked the best out of all of them in terms of handling the guy's ball and in terms of handling the shot she had. There were some points where Alvin, where Ego was going toe to toe, right? With both Vavasori and with Arani.

Like bring it. Yeah, I'm not the doubles player you are, but don't sleep. I am Egosfiontek and last time I checked, can hit a ball. And it was just almost where she was giving respect to them being doubles players. She was also saying, but you guys aren't top in the world yet either, are you? And let me just say, I can hit the ball as good as you. I'm willing to say better. You may know this double sing better than me right now.

Give me a few more weeks of doubles. Let's play again. And I think that has with some of the issues she's dealt with now, Alvin. We don't always look at these players in a composite form of where they are through their own journey. She's come out of the French. She's won Wimby, which is one of her goals and she never won it before. I feel like Ega has a similar weak draw. I don't want to say weak, not as deep of a draw as

Torrey (01:49:33.748)
her counterpart on the top side. But I also feel like you give her more matches. You give her a little bit of confidence. Ika is more difficult to beat with every ensuing match she plays. I don't think it's Icy Queen. Ashley, you know what I think it is? It's a little bit of manic depression. And if she loses, you'll see depression. And if she's winning, you'll see manic.

Ashley Spicer (01:49:55.234)
I think you're articulating it.

Torrey (01:50:00.938)
and manic in a good way. She will dial in with the best of them. And she's like a lock jaw with a pit bull once she gets her teeth in the match.

Alvin Owusu (01:50:10.117)
It doesn't, it just doesn't matter. The why is not important. The output is what's important. Right, right. Okay. Let's do this. Let's take a tiny break. We'll come back in part two and we will knock out this minstrel. Yes, yes.

Torrey (01:50:14.398)
But why does it matter? The output, the lockjaw is what I'm getting at.

Ashley Spicer (01:50:31.046)
Wait, before we do that, say it now. Who's your pick? Who's your pick for the win in the women's draw? Tori, who's your pick?

Torrey (01:50:38.922)
Arena Sabalenca

Alvin Owusu (01:50:41.925)
I'm picking Eager.

Torrey (01:50:43.888)
Arena Sabalenka.

Ashley Spicer (01:50:44.369)
Ooh, Stubble Lincoln Arena.

Alvin Owusu (01:50:45.878)
I feel good about

Yeah, and I don't see, we bring in a new player here and I usually get away with not having to make any predictions on this silly podcast and I just got pressed. I got pressed. I got pressed. Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (01:50:49.385)
She's... She's do. She's do.

Torrey (01:51:00.59)
Get him Ashley.

Ashley Spicer (01:51:04.764)
Let's put it on the line. You gotta put it on the line a little bit, right? You gotta say what you, I'm actually gonna lean towards Tori. I think it's Sabalinka. I think she's gonna put it together. That's my hope. Let's see what happens. But it's an exciting tournament nonetheless. I think there's so many good matches that I'm excited to watch and my energy is already there for this year's US Open thanks to the mixed doubles.

Alvin Owusu (01:51:29.509)
There you go, there you go. All right, we're gonna take a break and then we're gonna come back in part two and knock out the men's draw.