Ep. 57: US Open 2025 Preview (Part 2): Men’s Draw Breakdown & Dark Horse Picks

Alvin Owusu (00:05.355)
It's exciting, you gotta get the people what they want. All right, we're back. Part two, we're gonna be going, we're back. Same faces, same places, new draw. It's, we're gonna, we're gonna dig into the men's draw here. Starting at the top, well first of all, you're listening to this episode, then make sure you go back. We covered mixed doubles and the women's draw and.

Ashley Spicer (00:07.537)
We're back.

Torrey (00:11.428)
Chuck, what was your synopsis?

Alvin Owusu (00:33.973)
part one and now here in part two, we're gonna go through the minstrel. Starting with Mr. Yannick Sinner's top of his quarter. You know, I mean, he is, think, Tori, you've had some interesting words that really resonated with the people about Mr. Sinner. Cyborg, simulation, AI spawn, I think it all.

Torrey (01:00.484)
AI spawn and unfortunately, physically a little bit under his top right now. If there is a, there's two ways to play out with Yannick. He wins this thing and has a reboot of Australia where he almost lost in that crazy match where he was shaken and had a 20 minute break. What does he put? To Holger, right? I want to add in a

Alvin Owusu (01:23.883)
against Holger. Played Holger. Yep.

Torrey (01:30.083)
quick caveat addendum to Demetrov and Wimby right right so we've seen him physically not be at his peak and I have to reference this under the umbrella of last week at Cincinnati where he was clearly not playing his best there he is cyborg spawn he is AI in real flesh he is Jarvis however I also will say physically if there's kryptonite

Alvin Owusu (01:31.734)
Yep, yep.

Torrey (01:59.265)
The physicality of the game, physicality of the schedule is his kryptonite. And right now he's not playing his best. Should he get through the first week, which all things point that he should, he will be cyborgs bond in the second week. His vulnerability, his vulnerability is his first week. That's, that's my, that's my, that's my, he's not healthy right

Ashley Spicer (02:14.587)
Well, is he healthy right now?

Alvin Owusu (02:19.838)
Is he health, is he healthy?

Ashley Spicer (02:22.043)
I mean, is he even healthy right now? I think that's the question around him. Is he even healthy?

Alvin Owusu (02:25.168)
Yeah, so like what he played five games against Carlos in the finals of CINCI, right? Showed no issues prior to that, right? But then gets to that match and he wasn't able to even finish the first set, right? I haven't seen if it was illness or whatnot.

Torrey (02:26.146)
I hope.

Ashley Spicer (02:40.527)
He said he was sick. had some kind of illness. You know, he doesn't play the mixed here. He, you know, I think that I think he's got a little pretty big question mark around him right now. Of course, he's a high level player. Of course he can do it. Of course he's all of these things. But this week, these two weeks, is he that? He means to be empty.

Alvin Owusu (02:44.296)
Yeah.

Torrey (02:48.643)
you

Torrey (02:56.579)
Heal up.

Alvin Owusu (03:02.836)
So I think that's the thing, right? We have to look at the timing of it, right? So he's got an entire, he's got this entire week of just practice. He's not playing matches. He's got a chance to heal up, And usually I would say, okay, I'm not concerned about him in the first week of a Grand Slam, but Alex Popron lurking, if center isn't exactly where he needs to be, like Alex is the kind of player that could like, I mean, he beat, he's beaten Novak in a Grand Slam. Like he's, he can, he can do it.

Torrey (03:28.611)
the

Alvin Owusu (03:32.522)
I would, if I'm in the center camp, I'm not pumped about that potential second round matchup. You'd like something a little bit more straightforward, but so the draw goes. Yeah, I don't know. think we'll, again, toward to your point, like when he had those issues against Holger in Australia, it was quite hot, right? Won't be a problem for week one of the US Open. So I think it's easy money saying that him getting through this section,

Torrey (03:41.954)
No.

Alvin Owusu (04:02.269)
unscathed is probably what's going to happen. I do want to give a little shout out to College Tennis though. If you scroll down a bit, Nuno Borges against Brandon Holt. That's fun. Tracy's son is Brandon. Tracy's son is Brandon and Nuno played a year. Brandon played at USC I believe and then Nuno played at Mississippi State. that right? And Nuno's having a great year.

Torrey (04:17.972)
Tracy Austin's son. Yep.

Ashley Spicer (04:20.122)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey (04:28.642)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (04:31.51)
a little bit higher caliber of a player right now than Brandon, but I think that should be a fun one to watch. if you're in New York on Sunday or Monday or Tuesday, whenever that match is played, wouldn't be a terrible outside court match to check out. Tommy Paul, where the hell has Tommy Paul been? I know you got engaged, got something like, what's he been doing? Not playing tennis? Just.

Torrey (04:35.842)
Okay.

Catching up on his Raptor payments is what it sounds like he's been doing. Whole nother talk show there. Tommy Paul, the demon and other players like him have been trying to hang on to where they are in a very tectonic plate filled year. They have been typically the very solid competitors and Alvin they're coming up against the players who are starting to just go through them and they're playing well right now.

Alvin Owusu (05:02.666)
Hahaha

Torrey (05:26.377)
And I think that's one of the problems with Tommy. They have not had the year they won. Casper Ruud is leading that procession. Obviously he got hurt a few terms, so he's not been playing as well. But Ruud, Dimonar, Paul, they're all right there together in their level and then their consistency. But you're starting to see the rest of the tour start to really come through at a point. They're always tough to beat, but unfortunately, if you're playing well and you're hitting the

through them on the hard court. This is that time for you to be able to shine right now. And those guys have to do so much more to counter. They just need, they need that guy to be a little bit off going forward. I think Tommy is the sleeper in this section. I'm looking forward to Bublik and Chilich. Just because I love Chilich's game. I think that could be a great one. think former US Open champion. He won two, right? Didn't he win US in another, didn't he?

Ashley Spicer (06:13.531)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (06:16.458)
former US Open champion, Marin Chiles. Put some respect on his name.

Ashley Spicer (06:18.129)
You like? I like them.

Torrey (06:24.019)
or only one, the only one. Final, right. Final Wimby, I thought it was Wimby. Right, Final Wimby. Obviously that Fuscovich and Chepavala is gonna be another good match. A lot of good matchups in this draw. Musetti and the GMP, I don't see Musetti having too many issues, but at the same time, that could be a tough matchup. So there's a lot of good matches in this section of the much unlike.

Alvin Owusu (06:24.392)
No, he finaled, Did he final Wimbledon one year? Yeah.

Torrey (06:48.991)
the arena and Eega size of the draw where there weren't anybody you could really see even threatening. There's four matches right there that you're like, ooh, that could be, should, and I say that to say, let me wrap up back on my segue with Tommy Paul. If he isn't 100%, the last person you want to play being Yanick is Tommy Paul in America. You know what I'm saying? If this match goes five and he's not 100%.

You don't want to play a crowd favorite American who grinds when you are 60, 70%. The good thing is he is going to get several days off in between. He's got four days off before he starts the main. He's got two or three days to get the first draw started and so on and so on. But, and unfortunately Tommy is that matchup toward the end of the week, right? But just saying this this draw here. There's enough players. There's enough players in this section, the draw that could

have a depth of a thousand cuts for Mr. Sinner, who's already coming in, maybe a court low.

Alvin Owusu (07:55.806)
Yeah, I mean, yeah, well, good actually.

Ashley Spicer (07:56.111)
I see it. I'm sorry, I was just gonna jump in. see a lot of players in here that.

that really have nothing to lose. And I think that makes him dangerous, especially, you know, stacked with some, you know, notable Americans, young Americans, even the young Australian, their school Kate. You know, I think you've got some players who are just going to go for it. And, you know, to your point, Tori, if Yannick is not 100 percent, those then become dangerous and they'll wear you out a little bit, get some energy from the crowds. You know, we'll see how how he comes back. And again, it's kind of on his

Torrey (08:25.6)
Yep.

Ashley Spicer (08:32.851)
on his terms and health, right? It just comes down to is he healthy? Is he feeling good? And can he keep his health above, you know, 85 and then 90 % to get through to the second week here?

Alvin Owusu (08:35.709)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (08:44.137)
Yeah, what we're talking about here is like even if you look at the splitting up this section of 16 here, all those tricky players that we mentioned, they're all in Tommy's side, not on Yannick's side, right? that's a second week problem, right? That's around a 16 second week problem, like Bublik and Chilich and Tommy. Center's got some time to get right, assuming that it's nothing.

Torrey (08:54.962)
Right, not all, not all, as they should be, right?

Torrey (09:09.983)
He gets past Popron. Yeah. That's the

Alvin Owusu (09:13.481)
Yeah, I think by the time he gets to the prop and match, think we'll know very well where he stands from a health standpoint. That's the one caveat I'll add in there. All right, let's keep moving. Musetti versus GMP. Yeah, GMP just hasn't been doing enough this year to really, to force me to say this is a tricky matchup.

Torrey (09:23.145)
Yep.

Torrey (09:29.32)
Yep.

Torrey (09:40.159)
There's a lot of meat in this section, Alvin.

Alvin Owusu (09:41.124)
And I think I'll have a very similar sentiment about Carlos playing El Pelca down at the bottom. Those are just kinda tricky, not straightforward matches. yeah, Mr. Impesci-Pera Card hasn't been playing the best tennis as of late, so add that with, I think we said he's gonna be fine against him. I hope so, obviously I hope so.

Torrey (10:09.279)
Brooksby, Diallo, Cabole, Gaufrin, Mustetti. This is a tough little section for Jack. Once again, Jack has not got the best of draws. It'd been better if he were a six or seven seed or if he was a three. mean, being the five, he's that high, he's that next tier seed and the top of it. But this draw here, you're right here, Cabole's playing well. mean, Mustetti's not, Simi's the French.

Alvin Owusu (10:12.349)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (10:38.271)
You know, and you got a lot of, you saw that Alvin, I gave your boy a compliment. I want, I I, that's all I'm gonna give him by the way. But I say that to say, and I've always loved W. Kofan playing house. There's a lot of meat, a lot of veterans in this side. Jaime Munoz, there's a lot of players in here that are just solid, man. This is not, this draw here, the thing I want to say Alvin,

Alvin Owusu (10:41.085)
Yeah, I was I was I was while shocking shocking giving me said he some love

Torrey (11:06.813)
You come out of this section with this many good players, you're playing good tennis. If I played a qualifier and the qualifier played okay, right? Assuming he's played three matches, right? Just to get in this thing. I'm playing okay because I'm being pushed and I'm able to match who I'm being pushed by. My next match I get through, the guy's okay, he didn't play well. I get through, but I'm not necessarily polished. I'm not necessarily tested. There are six, nah, that may be too much. There might be

GoFans the former top 10. is Ozzy Draper's a top 10, Mercedes a top 10. I'm trying to look at all the rest of the, I hate to put it this way. I think Kubota is gonna be a future top 10. There are at least four or five.

former veterans that could that have been top 15, surely top 20 that are in this section. Some of them not being that now because of age and older, but these guys are certainly good. the younger sides, the GMPs, the Brooks Bees, right, are guys that you're like, dude, but don't sleep on them though. You these guys, these guys aren't, they're not a walk in the park match. You're still going to have to beat, GMP in three sets and maybe two tiebreakers, you know, just off serve alone.

Alvin Owusu (12:15.11)
Yeah.

Torrey (12:21.36)
Mousseri's one-hander is not that clean off the backhand return to defend and hit return winners on GMP. So I'm saying even that match, this is a fairly tough section for Jack Draper and Leonel. And this is going to be a tough one for the both of them getting through this section. And then, of course, the two of them meeting each other. I have to say, whoever gets tested the most is more

ready for that matchup when they get to what is it?

Alvin Owusu (12:50.953)
Well, they're all kind of weird. They're weird matches. luckily you don't have to play, you can only play who's in front of you, right? like, Jack's not gonna have to play Diallo and Munnar, he's only gonna play one of them. And that could have an impact on which one of them he plays. Yeah, Mouseti probably has to play Gabulli, but he doesn't have to play Gabulli and Brooksby, he's gotta play one of them. And I was thinking back though, like Mouseti,

Torrey (13:02.852)
Right.

Torrey (13:09.818)
Right, but Moussaidi does have to play Kabolding, you know, if I'm working out of right.

I'll just sing.

Alvin Owusu (13:20.883)
did play GMP at Wimbledon last year, 2024. That was GMP's breakout and Musetti was able to handle him on a slicker, faster court. I think best out of five is gonna be enough time for Lorenzo to get his, like think his way through that one. He will.

Torrey (13:28.07)
Right.

Torrey (13:37.63)
He'll work his magic and I watched him in person, Alvin. I gotta tell you, my second compliment. My second, my second compliment. Your boy hits a good ball. mean, he hits a good ball. my God.

Alvin Owusu (13:42.473)
You ain't gotta tell me nothing. No, you ain't gotta tell me nothing.

Alvin Owusu (13:48.845)
here we go. Ashley, Ashley, I can't tell you how many times, how many times I've sat in this chair and done this podcast and listened to this man, Tori Hawkins, just poop all over Lorenzo Masetti. And now, now he's seen him, he's seen him in person one time.

Torrey (14:05.571)
Ashley, he's not four in the world material. He's not four in the world material. I stand by it. I lean on it. But he's every bit. He's every bit of eight in the world. Let me tell you that right now. And he's happened to be 10. You heard it right here, Alvin. Third compliment, final compliment, he's better than a 10C. Just saying.

Alvin Owusu (14:13.576)
He's, yeah, he's 10, he's 10.

Alvin Owusu (14:25.458)
Well, let's just shut the pod down now. I feel good.

Ashley Spicer (14:27.473)
I that's almost as good as a pick, you know? That's it. Pinjump.

Torrey (14:29.885)
the

Alvin Owusu (14:32.072)
That's the- that's the- I need to open it a whole drawer.

Torrey (14:34.565)
And I got Jack in four when he plays Jack Draper. Keep moving. Don't let me get soft up in here.

Alvin Owusu (14:37.128)
there it is. There it is.

There it is, okay. All right, Ashley, in this particular section, what tickles your fancy in this particular section?

Ashley Spicer (14:45.765)
Yes.

well.

You know, I want to be a Zverev fan. I think there's a part of me that the look of his game, the feel of his game when he's on, I'm like, yes, this is great. And he always lets me down and he breaks my heart a little bit nearly every tournament. And I'm a little tired of getting my heart broken if I'm being honest. you know, I want to be his fan. Listen, right?

Torrey (15:01.564)
Thank

Torrey (15:09.821)
Thank you.

Torrey (15:16.721)
When people show you who they are, believe them the first time. Maya Angelou.

Ashley Spicer (15:22.905)
I'm not, I haven't learned the lesson was very yet. keep going back and Sasha just keeps just breaking my heart. So, you know, obviously I think it's a pretty open draw. I, you know, I still, I still am drawn to the names like Gamowfi and everyone in there. There's a lot of qualifiers, you know, at this, it seems like they're all kind of chunked up here, which is an interesting, you know, draw kind of coming out.

Alvin Owusu (15:44.85)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (15:49.914)
Is it favorable to the very I think it's as favorable as you're going to get, know, in the men's game right now.

Torrey (15:55.855)
He's a frickin' three seed, Ashley. He's a three seed. He should be able to work through all these cats if he's true to seed.

Alvin Owusu (15:56.818)
He's got a great draw. He's got a fantastic draw.

Ashley Spicer (16:03.025)
should be in the operative word there, Tori. Again, we know he's a heartbreaker over and over again. And it's just all the pieces are there, but he can't seem to put them all together at the same time. It's, know, when's that gonna happen? Is it ever gonna happen at this point? I don't know. I think we're past it.

Alvin Owusu (16:20.39)
Yeah, it's, you know, there's a couple of, there are a couple interesting, there's a couple interesting matches that could happen, right? Zverev, think, Monfils could get himself into a tussle with Zverev because they, you know, they will both stand behind the baseline and, you know, allow each other to play. So that's, that's a, that's an interesting one, but like,

Torrey (16:23.215)
How long you been watching? How much time you got?

Ashley Spicer (16:26.777)
New on

Ashley Spicer (16:40.304)
short.

You never know with Monty. Right.

Alvin Owusu (16:47.942)
This is a great draw for Zverev. Three seed, obviously, he should get a good draw, but I feel like he's had the, yeah, he's been on the receiving end of good draws pretty much at all the Grand Slams. He's avoiding, he's managed, except for in French Open where he did get Djokovic in the quarters. Yeah, it's fantastic draw for him. I expect him to go all way to the semi-finals. No reservations about that, actually.

Ashley Spicer (16:52.709)
Yeah, it's particularly good. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (17:15.077)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey (17:16.472)
He's going to do better against Rubalev to me than he's going to against Monfils. He's going to do better against Monfils than he's going to do against Batiste Agoot, in my opinion. I'm worried about his first couple of matches, to be honest, guys. I just feel like, you know, he's and I gave him credit for playing through Cincinnati, you know, being hurt, dinged up, and I gave him a lot of credit. He fought through that, you know, he wasn't 100 percent. And to not withdraw, which I kind of give, you know, I kind of poofed it on.

Yannick for doing so. I give Alex a lot of credit. I personally feel like we're not going to change much, but Zverev, if he's anything, he's pretty consistent. He will, he usually eight times out of 10 earns his seeding. I feel like the real question in this draw here to me is does Rublev knock out a top four, top eight player in route or does he start to fade?

a little bit. That's to me, he's more the question mark in this draw than that's that's to me.

Alvin Owusu (18:19.208)
Well, that's it, mean, that's it. Like, Rublev, has to be Zverev then. Like, they're set to meet in the round of 16. Yeah, it's...

Torrey (18:23.922)
Which is a great draw for Rublev. mean, this is a great draw for, you can't talk about it's for Zverev and I agree, but it's an even better draw for Rublev. Who better to get at your three seed than Sasha? I mean, just be honest.

Alvin Owusu (18:34.856)
Right, if you're a, yeah, as a 15 seed, you could get any one of the top four seeds as your seed, and he got, I don't know what their head to head is, but at least it's a comfortable match. It's a comfortable match.

Torrey (18:42.895)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (18:50.693)
They were, yeah. You know, I'm surprised we're not talking about his Felix. I feel like he's, he's had a good season.

Torrey (18:56.504)
Because Felix is a non-starter. If you think Alex, if you think Sasha's let you down, Sasha didn't even show up to the chapel. I mean, just saying.

Ashley Spicer (19:00.357)
I know.

Alvin Owusu (19:07.816)
Look, mean, let's just go ahead and put Felix and Stefanos on the same boat and just send them out to sea. All let's just let them go. Let them go, be free.

Ashley Spicer (19:14.534)
Yeah.

Torrey (19:16.346)
Stefanos got top three, just saying.

Alvin Owusu (19:19.41)
That's true. He did final two grand slams too.

Torrey (19:21.765)
There is not a player I'm more disappointed with in his career than Mr. Aja Aliassi. There is not a player I was more waiting for his donning us with his talent and giving graces us with his presence than Mr. Felix. I am past. You're waiting? You're waiting for Sasha? I was waiting with bated breath for Felix. three years ago, I finally realized

Ashley Spicer (19:26.801)
than Felix.

Alvin Owusu (19:29.629)
Really?

Ashley Spicer (19:41.399)
Now losing Owen to the ionic just.

Torrey (19:52.036)
He's never going to change.

Ashley Spicer (19:54.735)
Yeah, surprising. It's so surprising to that he's a 25 seed here, seeded at all. I think it's a shame that we're not able to have those conversations about him,

Alvin Owusu (19:55.368)
Yeah. All right.

Alvin Owusu (20:06.728)
The points are rolling off, let's put it that way. 2026 is gonna be real, I'll show you it's gonna be real interesting when you've got the likes of Felix Alijay Aliseem and Sefano Sipas floating around in the draw unseated. Yeah, all right, let's keep popping. man, God, let's, I mean he'll still be direct entry into the event, but I know what you're saying.

Torrey (20:09.07)
You

Ashley Spicer (20:09.105)
Thank you.

Ashley Spicer (20:21.937)
Playing some challenges, right?

Torrey (20:24.921)
He ain't that tough play challenger. He's done.

Alvin Owusu (20:36.264)
I know you're saying, um, Karen Hatchen off nine seed at a boy. That's, that's, that's, that's proper. That's a, this is a, this is a proper section. Nine and eight sits a pass is in here. Um, Sarundalo Arnaldi, like this is, this is, this is a proper section. Just, uh, it almost looks like a 500 like a bit. Um, I like it. I like it. So.

Sit the the match that I'm drawn to here sits past Mueller.

Torrey (21:13.313)
Hmm

Alvin Owusu (21:14.598)
Is it callable? Like, am I gonna, yeah, I'll say it my chest. This Syspass is going out in the first round. If he even plays the match, he could pull out. Like.

Ashley Spicer (21:26.097)
Yeah, I've soured on T.C. Posse. He's shown me who he is and it's not good. He's the one I've given up on. Going back to Karen though, I, you know.

Alvin Owusu (21:26.237)
Yeah.

Torrey (21:35.321)
you

Ashley Spicer (21:37.225)
I think he's poised. think Karen's poised to actually do quite well here, especially given the kind of lackluster feelings we may have about Zverev, right? And who Zverev decides to be. And again, I'm just looking back at this draw. It's like how many lucky qualifier or lucky losers in this draw? Like six, right? In this little section here. I mean.

Alvin Owusu (22:02.257)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (22:03.713)
He's got a chance and at the nine seed and given his deep run at Wumbi, you've got to kind of leave some space there for him to do something here. But I have to agree that that tzitzi Paz is, if he survives, it's probably a long match and he probably goes out straight in the next one no matter who it is, I think in my opinion.

Alvin Owusu (22:27.141)
Yeah, between Altmeier and Mehatovic. That'd be tough regardless. I'm not as bullish on Hatchinoff getting the chance to play Zverev because he would have to get past Demonor first. that feels like, I mean could be a toss up, right? We're talking about it. Yeah, that'd be an eight and nine right there.

Torrey (22:34.712)
.

Ashley Spicer (22:49.509)
feels like a good match. It feels like a fun one to watch.

Alvin Owusu (22:56.091)
That's two guys doing similar things in different ways and it's gonna, it would be a grind. It would just be a grind.

Torrey (23:01.655)
Here's your stat update. I was just looking at ATP.com seven and three by the way between Zverev and Rublev and and here is this is I mean not surprising per se but Karen is two to one head-to-head against Alex against the demon. So just being what it is

Alvin Owusu (23:11.931)
In Reubliff? Okay, thank you for doing that, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (23:23.847)
Okay. Okay. On the, on the, on the Zvere, on the Zvere of Rublev matchup, what about the last two matches and when were they?

Alvin Owusu (23:36.871)
Cause I think they usually, they'll usually give you that one like stacked up there.

Cause I guess like those matchups, when you look at them long tail, it's like a lot of things happen over the course of seven years, especially when you're playing the same people over and over. But if you tell me on a hardcore in the last nine months that it's three nil to Zverev, then okay, that's what I wanna believe in. While TH is looking that up, we'll just keep moving forward here. Mr. Novak Djokovic.

Ashley Spicer (23:49.585)
Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

Ashley Spicer (23:57.841)
Two years.

Alvin Owusu (24:15.087)
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to really get a grasp on what's going on with Novak because he just doesn't play sometimes. We haven't seen him since Wimbledon. He's been going back and forth on this whole, I'll play warm-up events, I won't play warm-up events, okay, I need the practice, but I need the rest. So we haven't seen him since, I guess we saw him in mixed doubles with Ogledonilovic, but haven't seen him play singles match.

Ashley Spicer (24:23.951)
I'm

Alvin Owusu (24:42.065)
since he pulled up relatively lame against Yannick Sinner in the, it was the Sipmes?

Ashley Spicer (24:48.305)
I feel like he just always brings it and whatever his method is, it works for him. You can't even question it at this point. At this point in his career, whether he plays or doesn't play, you know he's preparing, you know he's gonna be at the best that he can possibly be for this tournament. Is he gonna face some challenges? Sure, but I don't think, there's no one in here that I'm really concerned about for him.

until you get to week two. I mean, again, I think he's got a pretty clear path and of course any given day, but it's Novak, right? And Novak is gonna Novak.

Alvin Owusu (25:28.965)
Right, but the thing is, he's said it as much after Wimbledon, it's not the, the issue is by the time he gets to those quarterfinal matchups against these, the other title contenders, he doesn't have anything left in the tank, right? So as I'm looking at this draw, mean Lerner Tien is a, he's proved to us that he's hell of a player. Can he keep Novak out there for four sets? Right, okay.

Torrey (25:30.326)
.

Alvin Owusu (25:56.54)
let's say Novak takes him in four sets, that's still a little more taxing than we want early on. He's got a matchup, he would then play against the better of two qualifier lucky losers. Okay, that's good for Novak. And then potentially maybe a Mickelson or probably a Cam Norrie who will, Cam will suck it out of him too, right? So it's the cumulative effect of these matches. he?

Torrey (25:59.511)
.

Ashley Spicer (26:17.221)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (26:24.593)
Please.

Alvin Owusu (26:24.859)
The question is, can he get out of them quickly? That's all it is. Not can he win them.

Ashley Spicer (26:27.153)
Yeah, that's been the same conversation over the last, five years now? I mean, it's all about court, you know, time on court management. I feel like that's his thing. And I think he's figured it out on some level.

Alvin Owusu (26:35.455)
Yeah, yeah, that's that's I mean, yeah more or less But that's what we're that's what we're dealing with. Can he get through these matches these first two three rounds quickly? Not get taxed so that he's ready to go week two

Ashley Spicer (26:53.137)
You know what I would love to see? I, yeah, what I would love to see from Djokovic that I did not get from the Federer, from the Nadal, win one more and go out on the, while accepting the trophy, right? Like, can we just, can we just, exactly, let's just win one more.

Torrey (26:53.573)
And not get dinged up.

Hmm

Torrey (27:08.434)
Do a peep, pull a peep, Samprus 02.

Ashley Spicer (27:14.661)
have a great retirement speech at the ready and go, go out on top. The slow dwindling of these players is so painful to watch.

Torrey (27:15.06)
and peace.

Alvin Owusu (27:26.151)
Mmm.

Ashley Spicer (27:27.107)
It's just like, it's watching your hero slowly shrivel up, you know? And I watched it with Fed, heartbroken. Nadal kind of gave me that as well. I really hope that Djokovic learns from those two and says, you know what, let's go on a different way. That's my hope.

Alvin Owusu (27:47.207)
So the counter on that one is Fed got hurt, came back, gave it a go, didn't have it. At that point he was too old. Nadal, kind of same thing. His last healthy year, he won the first two Grand Slams of the year and then had to pull out again in Wimbledon. But yes, again, the issue here.

Torrey (27:57.142)
I still blame Taylor Fritz for that match for not being able to kick him out of the door. I want to chime in Wilk but I'll be... Please.

Alvin Owusu (28:16.934)
Hold on, let me finish it and I'll give it to you. But the thing with Novak is he's almost got this, he's too close to not continue. He's lost the center or Alcara's in the last eight Grand Slams. It's like, what?

Ashley Spicer (28:29.637)
But that-

But that's what we were saying about Fed and Adol until the last what? Two years of their career. We're like, oh, they're so close. They're so close. They're so close. Like, that's the whole point. Go out while you're still a contender. Go out, win, and hang it up at that point. think...

Alvin Owusu (28:48.922)
I think he could go out as a winner, but not as a contender, because a contender makes him feel like, can still win. When Nadal and Fed left, they could not win anymore.

Torrey (28:57.604)
There we go.

Ashley Spicer (28:58.481)
That's what I'm saying. They hung on too long. They should have left while they were still in that like, they're kind of a contender. They win one more and they hang it up. let's, losing on your way out is just, it's a little heartbreaking for me.

Alvin Owusu (29:01.795)
Yeah, yeah, fair.

Alvin Owusu (29:14.573)
I don't think they, I just don't think they can because if they win, they're like, well then I can still win. Right.

Ashley Spicer (29:19.427)
agree. get it. The belief is still there. The belief is I totally get it. From a fan perspective. Yeah. Sorry.

Torrey (29:19.894)
Hard to... Yeah. It kills us. It kills us. It kills us to see our heroes die a slow death right there on the screen in front of us. What I was going to say is that there were some mitigating factors. Novak was also gaining slash passing both of them. And I think, and my own personal belief, Nadal...

Alvin Owusu (29:28.282)
Go ahead, Tori.

Torrey (29:48.999)
stayed on because he felt like he'd been disrespected by Mr. Novak Djokovic. And I think he was gonna do everything in his power to try to win one, two, or three more just to keep him off the record books. Unfortunately, he was unable to do so. I will also say that Novak, slightly different caveat, the tour hasn't been good enough to let him think he needs to retire. He can beat everybody else to...

Ashley Spicer (29:54.481)
No.

Torrey (30:18.036)
tag on piggyback with Alvin saying, he's still relevant. Heck, the guy's gotten to semis twice, you know, and, and, and dinged up. But the problem is he can still win. My issue, my issue with all these guys. And I go back to Taylor Fritz with that match and quarters, what was it? Quarters of semis two, three years ago against Novak and Wimby. You should have kicked him while he was down, you know, and, stepped on his neck, so to speak. You didn't. The guy beats you and he thinks,

this guy and then he sees this guy in the draw. It's like, I beat that guy with no serve in his mind. He feels he's still relevant and if he felt that here's a no back that beat him. That's the problem. These are tour needs to be able to kick these guys. talk about the women's tour a little bit ago. You gotta be able at this phase in your career to push those guys out to the pasture. Unfortunately, our tour has not done that and they haven't

Ashley Spicer (31:12.442)
It's true.

Torrey (31:15.315)
I hope Lerner takes him five. I really do. I hope that whoever was in Cam and Sebi push him forward. I hope in the next matchup, you know, that the next few guys, really hope, guys, I hate to say it, I hope that Mikkelsen or somebody else who's out of nowhere comes out and push them five and they end up being the four hour max. But unfortunately, what he's shown us all along, he's more fit than almost anybody else.

Alvin, the profile you talk about, that profile now includes you have to be mentally tough enough. You have to have the game and you have to have the fitness to be able to go with this certain 38 year old. Otherwise it doesn't matter. He's Sugar Ray Leonard of the tennis world, but there's nobody fitter. There's nobody ready. There's nobody better at him at his Floyd Mayweather. There's nobody better at what he does at his age period. There's a few better people.

but they happen to have one or two next to their name. And that's why he's got, and hey, he's got that, he's got a better draw than dad gum Jack Draper.

Ashley Spicer (32:23.141)
Definitely. Definitely does.

Alvin Owusu (32:23.526)
Yeah, he really does. It's not a matter of like...

Torrey (32:24.839)
I mean, let's be honest.

Alvin Owusu (32:30.278)
not worrying about losing the matches necessarily. It's getting caught up in long matches that just weaken him moving into the second week. But it would like to that point though.

Ashley Spicer (32:38.95)
Yeah.

Torrey (32:42.454)
By the way, looked up Holger and him are four and three. Novak won one, lost three. He's won the last three matchups with Holger. So that's his matchup, Ashley and Alvin. has it. And best out of five. He has not beat Novak since 2023. And Novak's won the last three, to your point. Tasha's there by the way, seven and three.

Alvin Owusu (32:54.638)
And we're talking best out of five tennis too. Like it's not looking good for Holger.

Right. Yeah. So yeah. So yeah.

Torrey (33:08.755)
It was five for Sasha, three for Rublev. Sasha's won the last two. He's not beat him. Rublev's not beat him since 2023 as well.

Alvin Owusu (33:20.344)
Okay, all right, let's keep the wind behind us here and keep moving. Moving into the Taylor Fritz's portion of the draw. Pretty good draw for Taylor as well. Like, you've got the, you know, we've got the would-be second coming here with Mincek and Fonseca kinda bunched into the same area, which is interesting. But Nico Jari, there he is again. That damn Nico Jari.

Torrey (33:41.575)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (33:50.065)
You

Torrey (33:51.345)
I don't give him the same chance as Alvin on hardcore. I don't. think the grass is a special thing. think think Xiao starting to make some moves. I do think he'll have a tough against his man. But I also think that he's and also the hard hitting Mahaj Mahaj is certainly as hard of a hitter, maybe not as maybe not the same upside. But make no mistake, that's going to be a match where they're going to need balls every three games, not every not every seven to nine.

But that's going to be a match that I look forward to seeing. I feel like this matchup, don't forget, Miami was when Minsik beat on hard court, beat Taylor in that semi. And I also feel like Taylor isn't as big on hard court as he was on grass. He's a little more human. Shoot, Hicken Quinn or Brandon Nakashima. There's a lot of players that I feel could match up to him. I saw an article about Taylor Freds.

Once an American to win. I'm like, yeah, I, we all have a lot of wants. I personally feel like this draw will tax Taylor personally. I think this draw, there's enough people, enough people that think they can go through him. Yow being perhaps, perhaps number two on the list. Yaka being number one. There's a lot of players on this list that could beat Taylor in a head to head on hardcore. On grass, wouldn't be a conversation, but on hardcore, what, what say you too?

Alvin Owusu (35:19.951)
Well, I mean, he doesn't, he's, like I said before, he doesn't play all of them, right? He only has to play if it's gonna be Fonseca or Mensek, it's not gonna be Fonseca and Mensek, right? He's on the other side of them. I think, the thing, the players that tend to hurt Taylor are players that can obviously hang with him from the baseline and also create their own pace and go through him. So I don't see anybody in his first three rounds that can do that, per se.

Torrey (35:30.375)
Sure.

Torrey (35:41.531)
Go.

Torrey (35:49.27)
Right right. Brandon will push him, but he won't he won't take it. Right. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (35:49.99)
But as we look into that, Brandon will push him, but Brandon can't hurt him. Yeah, he can hang, but he can't hurt him. But so when you look at that potential round of 16 matchup against someone like a Mensik or a Fonseca, okay, there's a conversation, for sure. Then there's a conversation. But up until then, week one, yeah, I'm not worried about it.

Ashley Spicer (36:07.874)
I

I agree, I don't see anyone really challenging Taylor to that extent where he doesn't get to week two. Now again, you always gotta put this caveat, especially around Taylor Fritz, it's all, he could not show up, right? We've seen him.

have favorable draws, be seated high and lose first round, right? He's a mental case a little bit and he's got to choose to show up, right? He's not the consistent, no matter what he's gonna show up and bring his A game. So I'm hopeful to see him. I think on paper, it's a pretty clear path to week two for him.

Torrey (36:36.241)
.

Alvin Owusu (36:50.853)
was gonna push back on that, cause I remember him losing to like Brandon Holt first round at US Open, like not last year, but the year before, obviously not last year, he finaled last year, and I was gonna say, you he's matured through that, but he did lose to Gail Monfils in the first round of the Australian Open this year. That did happen. Special case.

Ashley Spicer (36:56.304)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (37:00.091)
Yeah, yeah.

Ashley Spicer (37:07.761)
Exactly. At this point, I don't know if he is ever going to mature through that. And I think it's his sheer talent that keeps him relevant, if I'm being honest. He's a great talent.

Torrey (37:08.167)
Yep. Talent slash serve slash slash keeps him in it. By the way, one and one against Mensik and Mensik won the last one, of course, in Miami. Taylor hasn't beaten him since the US Open of 2023.

Alvin Owusu (37:33.263)
Yeah, that potential round of 16 matchup against either Fonseca or Mensek, that's interesting. That one's not straightforward. That could be somebody's coming out party. Let's be honest. That could be the, we've been looking for, right, we've been looking for both of these guys and we've talked about them as being the two torchbearers of that younger generation that could, if anyone's going to challenge the centers and the Alcarazes, it's gonna come from that next.

Torrey (37:44.314)
percent. You're right. 100%. Yaqob or Yaqob or Yaw.

Ashley Spicer (37:44.357)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey (37:59.374)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (38:01.018)
that next tier guys who are under the age of 20 right now, and those two, those are the top two, but they gotta break out at a, they gotta do it at a slam, and this is, if they're gonna do it, this is kind of a good opportunity to go through one another and then take down a player that they both match up fairly well against. I think Jakub may be a little better than Yao right now.

Torrey (38:29.697)
Right now. Right. A little more belief, a title under his belt. know what mean?

Alvin Owusu (38:31.053)
Right now, right now. And I think Taylor's just smarter than Yao as a tennis player. That would probably serve him well, but Mensik's got it. He's kind of a little more complete of a player right now, and I think that could be troublesome for Taylor if they were to meet in the beginning of week two. All right.

Torrey (38:41.614)
Bye.

Torrey (38:45.827)
Bye.

Torrey (38:53.675)
My question for both of you before you move on. Before you move on, is Taylor our best chance of a US Open of an American champ at the US Open? Yes or no?

Ashley Spicer (38:54.085)
This is the one I'm excited about. We finally got to it.

Alvin Owusu (38:58.941)
okay.

Ashley Spicer (39:04.377)
No, we're about to get to our best chance. We're about to get to our next chance, Tori.

Alvin Owusu (39:06.133)
No, yeah, I'm with I'm with Ashley. think it's I think it I think it's probably been because Ben tends to show up deeper across the board. In the Grand Slams.

Ashley Spicer (39:17.041)
Can I just say how great Ben Shelton's energy was in the mix with Taylor as a doubles partner, showing up, giving her the credit as a double specialist. I just like this kid, you know, he's got...

Torrey (39:33.998)
Good kid.

Ashley Spicer (39:34.863)
You know, the personality, he's got the presence on and off the court, you know, with his girlfriend, Trinity Rodman. He's a hype boyfriend in a way. I love to see their relationship and even his relationship with his family, right? The call-outs to his sister, getting more PTO. And I'm a big fan. You can probably see my face just light up as I talk about him. I am just a Ben Schalken fan. I...

Torrey (39:51.555)
Thank

Alvin Owusu (39:58.392)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (40:01.009)
I'm excited to see what he can do. I love that he comes through that college tennis pathway and is really making an argument for the American tennis again. I think that he's our best shot. I think he's got a lot of promise. And I think he's got the right people around him off the court to make that happen. Yeah, I can't say any more positive things about it.

Torrey (40:14.172)
Yeah.

Torrey (40:27.351)
I will pick up where you left off. I'm a Brian Shelton fan and I will say this and Brian's a quality guy as come and if he has Brian Shelton as his father, he's a quality individual. I love this young man. I love his potential. I was on this podcast telling Alvin, I think this is our next guy. He'll be top 10 soon.

Alvin Owusu (40:27.607)
I'll, I'll, I'll-

Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (40:33.658)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (40:40.997)
So.

Torrey (40:49.871)
potential this year. I remember Alvin agreed with me with potential, maybe not on the timetable. And I think I was right on that one. I love exactly where he's going. I'm right there with you, Ashley. I like him for all the other reasons besides his pathway and his family and his character. He has so much more to get better at. He is still raw. The guy is still improving. Right. There's so much tennis that he still can get better at.

Ashley Spicer (40:50.405)
Yep.

Ashley Spicer (41:10.789)
Yes, I didn't even get to the tennis part. Toria didn't even get to the tennis part. You're exactly right.

Torrey (41:18.123)
And it's funny, we were in this conference with all the other HP coaches with USDA Play of the Dominant over the weekend. And Brian very admittedly saying there's still so much he's got to get better at. And I am looking at him saying, you know what? I was in a group of coaches seven, eight years ago talking about Francis and every one of us put on his technique. Every one of us put on how has served that foreign is going to break down. We all ended up seeing.

France was do okay. And so I say, was there with Novak when Skoll played with him in the 04 Australian. His serve was horrible. Volley, couldn't volley. He couldn't hit a ball big enough to get into volley. And now I see the same Novak as 24 Grand Slams. What do you not see? Do you see the ability to him get better and to improve? You're right. There was a guy named Jocelyn Juana who was the best player I'd ever seen on the junior tennis court, but he was finished.

You can tell he, there wasn't much more he could improve on. Little grip issue, but he was big, six, five, 130 mile an hour serve. What more you going to get better? He's not going to be a 180 mile an hour server. Novak had no serve and was in the semis. So how does that guy get better? I see that with Ben. He will only get better. I love his potential. I think he's got a decent draw. Casper Rueb, we're going to find out if he's healthy or not, coming from his long, you know, his long situation.

Ashley Spicer (42:25.573)
Yeah.

Right.

Torrey (42:44.27)
I know I'm looking pretty far down, but there are, you're talking about between Greenspur, Manorino, Chorich, there's lot of guys here that have been on the Schneid, health was, Jordan Thompson. There's a lot of guys, Karina Busta is on the older side. There are so many players that are older and that are a little bit more checkered past. The only two that light up on my, for what I see, and I gotta,

say that with a caveat, all of them are good players. Casper Rude is the one player that could present because he returned so well, could be the one player that Ben could have some trouble with on paper. And with that said, I think Ben comes through this with some momentum. And if he really handles these players like he should, Alvin, want to let you give him a chance to speak on Ben. I think.

Ashley Spicer (43:16.913)
course.

Ashley Spicer (43:27.313)
show.

Torrey (43:41.151)
Ironically, he's got a better draw than Jack Draper. Would you agree?

Ashley Spicer (43:45.733)
Totally agree.

Alvin Owusu (43:47.437)
Yeah, I would agree. mean, there's the thing. I want to go back to Ash's original question. Tori, it was your original question. Is Taylor Fritz our best hope for an American to win a Grand Slam? I don't think we actually have. As our hire, yeah. I originally wanted to go with Ben because Ben's younger and Ben shows up in Grand Slams and Ben is only lost to, and then.

Torrey (43:58.573)
Right.

Ashley Spicer (44:01.841)
personally.

Torrey (44:03.053)
As our highest seat, that was what I wanted to say.

Alvin Owusu (44:16.972)
in the three Grand Slams this year, he's lost to Sinner twice and Alcaraz once, right? So I can see that he is, I'm not saying he's closing the gap, but I can see that his ceiling could be three in the world right now. It's between him and Taylor and Zverev somewhere in there. What does that mean though? Like, does, even if he has these things to improve upon, do we feel like,

We obviously center in Alcara's are not going to stop improving. Is he going to improve enough to close the gap and surpass them? Like, I don't think so. I don't, I don't see that. I don't, I don't, I don't see a circumstance under in which they meet in the semifinals and Ben is able to take one of them out. Like now could he get, and that's why you're here. That's why you're here. I, I, I see, I feel like I can see Ben ceiling.

Torrey (45:04.081)
Hmm.

Ashley Spicer (45:05.337)
I disagree.

Hahaha!

Alvin Owusu (45:14.818)
And that is, it's right behind those two. That's where I see him sitting now. Now could he win a Grand Slam if something were to go awry? Like Carlos, those in the stinker in New York every now and again, right? Like, yeah, okay.

Ashley Spicer (45:29.649)
I definitely think it's the three of them are in the conversation, right? But I don't think that Ben is that far outside of that conversation. And again, I go back to the type of people he has around him.

He's going to continue to make improvements. He's not getting the ego stroke that think like a Taylor Fritz has gotten right over the last however many years, right? And I think that that's important because he's in a growth mentality and he's had a growth mentality his whole career. He's not peaking now. He's gonna peak in three or four or five years. And that's the point, right? Are we already seeing the center pink peak because he's hurt, he's sick.

Alvin Owusu (45:49.849)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (46:04.666)
Sure.

Ashley Spicer (46:12.529)
I think it's kind of disgraceful that he walked off the court in the finals, right? You'd have to be throwing up on a court, pull me off, you You think back to the level of commitment. I see that from Shelton. I see that level of commitment. And again, I think that that's an piece that-

Torrey (46:25.356)
the

Ashley Spicer (46:34.553)
It's not about technique. It's not about this, that, and the other. Of course, those are factors, but where's the heart, right? You see the heart from Ben. You see him at the US Open in New York City? Come on. I mean...

Alvin Owusu (46:49.188)
I'm with you on all those accounts, but Ben is 22, Carlos is 22, Yannick is 24. That dispersion of age is not changing. I'm as big a Ben fan as anyone else. He is the best thing that has happened to American men's tennis off court. He is that guy. We have a true superstar amongst us. Is that gonna help him? Good.

Ashley Spicer (47:01.883)
but they're cool.

Torrey (47:08.699)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (47:13.841)
It's about their career path, right? Again, he's not trying to peak at 22. He's gonna peak at 26, 27, 28. Where are these other guys in their career path? Now Alcáez, I agree. He's nearly been handed the...

Torrey (47:25.003)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (47:32.513)
next in line after an adult, right? It is so clear the pathway. But I think Ben Shelton's in that conversation. I think you're talking about the three of them together. And I'm not completely sold on the longevity of center at this point, given kind of where I've taken an assumption on where his heart is when it comes to the sport. Controversial take, hot take.

Alvin Owusu (47:54.34)
The long the no the longevity portion Has me thinking that one that one has me thinking a little bit

Torrey (47:56.001)
It's controversial. Yeah, that's tough. will. I'm going to I'm going to jump in what you think. I think center has been gifted a lot of things. Physicality as a person, let alone biologically, it seems like there's always something wrong with him. I'm not sure what and he has maximized what he has almost in spite of it. I agree with you on.

been in his upside in the next three or four years. I 100 % agree with that. I think he will only get better in the next three or five years. The issue I think comes to, we have to take those two outliers though and put them outside of this equation. Will he get to a point where he will threaten those two 100 %? He's playing them now. He will threaten them in the next year or two. The problem I have is,

Ashley Spicer (48:48.527)
He's there. Yeah.

Torrey (48:52.709)
unfortunately for everyone else. Those two have hit stride, have won slams, have the belief, have beaten each other and beaten everyone else and are shifting gears into sixth gear when most of these people are four and five speeds. Now is that to say that Ben should stop now? Heck no. I think Ben's only going to get better, but Ben's going to have to now overcome the

I never thought I could beat you by the time these guys have won 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 and 8 slams each before he beats them at that point which makes his job a bit tougher and that's my only issue.

Alvin Owusu (49:36.098)
Yeah, I don't even know. I don't even know why we're talking about beating them like he's not threatening them He's playing them and he's losing handily. Like it's not like we It is but not if you but eventually Yeah, but eventually like there is this accrued damage of continuing it to lose Yeah, he lost the Alcaraz in four and he lost out guys for in French open. He lost his straights to center and Australian and Wimbledon

Ashley Spicer (49:36.273)
I'm going to go back.

Torrey (49:43.679)
But playing them is big though, Alvin. But playing them is big because he's at least playing them.

Torrey (49:53.532)
Did he lose to Alcraz in four and in either Rome or?

Torrey (50:01.492)
Crenshaw.

Alvin Owusu (50:05.292)
Right, so we're talking about 10 sets here against them collectively nine to one, right?

Ashley Spicer (50:11.345)
But what I think we're seeing again is, I think what we're seeing is almost replant. I'm go back to what you said, Tori, about Novak Djokovic. He didn't have a serve. And he's the one who outlasted them all. I think we're seeing a repeat, almost mirroring Fed, Nadal, and who's the Novak. And I think Ben has the potential and has positioned himself to be the Novak and come in and take that position.

Torrey (50:11.988)
Just saying, it's getting there now.

Torrey (50:22.068)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (50:41.509)
We're not, can't look into the crystal ball, but I think in New York, I think given where he, the upswing, I think he challenges and I think he could beat Carlos when they meet. I think that's potential that we look at in week two.

Alvin Owusu (51:00.291)
There are all signs point to, like on paper, that he could or should be the third. Age results up to this point, progress in the last 12 months. everything except for what I watch when they play each other. Like that's the part that makes me go, I just, can't get there. I can't get there.

Torrey (51:08.394)
Right.

Ashley Spicer (51:19.217)
But think about when you used to watch Djokovic against Fed and adult. I used to feel the same way, admittedly.

Alvin Owusu (51:27.331)
Yeah, less than. I felt like Djokovic and Nadal were pretty close early, the Fed of it, considering the age gap, Like Fed's so much older than Novak is. So you're looking at players in very, very different parts of their development. know, Novak was 18 and Roger was 23, 24, right? But this one here, you're giving me...

Ashley Spicer (51:30.213)
Think back 20 years ago, Alvin.

Alvin Owusu (51:54.743)
I'm thinking hard about this because I've never considered it before that the third contender could be right here in front of our eyes except for I just

Torrey (52:04.455)
Yeah. Yeah. Up to this point. Up to this point. I am hoping that he maintains momentum. Let's be honest, Ashley, he's got to knock off number three. And that being one, Sasha Zverev. And he's got to be able to then take more than a few sets and be a five set.

Alvin Owusu (52:05.368)
What you're saying makes sense except for what my eyes have seen. At this point, at this point, but I'm willing to entertain it. Yeah, up to this point.

Ashley Spicer (52:09.307)
Fair enough. Fair enough.

Ashley Spicer (52:23.354)
Awesome.

Torrey (52:30.633)
I'm gonna say this in a weird way loser before he becomes a five-set winner, right and I don't disagree with you I think he's got a he's got a he's got the most chance of anybody I want I want to get back to the the draw here, but I said to say Ben will Eclipse Taylor I feel in this tournament and Ben will I hope push it one notch farther off of heart character and

Ashley Spicer (52:37.211)
True.

Torrey (53:00.137)
And growth to your point Ashley alone. Here's my question. How will he position himself through this tournament to get a better crack at them and get closer in 2026? You've to beat the man to be the man, but you've also got to lose close to the man and not be routine by the man to get close to beating the man the next time. You got to believe and the guys got to believe you can beat him.

Ashley Spicer (53:04.209)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (53:24.507)
I think

Torrey (53:28.262)
That's what really happened with Sinner and Alcoranz's past year.

Ashley Spicer (53:29.617)
think that this year, yeah, I think this year, given the arc that Shelton's on, I think that this year, if it is a true, you know, through to the quarters, and it's a Shelton Alcaraz quarters, if Shelton takes him here, I think we're at that point. Now, that's my hope. You know, I think worst case scenario,

Torrey (53:44.646)
Yep. I would agree with that. It's certainly really hope and hope and unfortunately is not a strategy. The words of a famous Adam Gusky. Hope is not a strategy. However, go ahead.

Alvin Owusu (53:54.883)
Hope? Hope?

Alvin Owusu (54:01.536)
Not a strategy.

Ashley Spicer (54:03.419)
But I think this is a pivotal tournament, Tori. I think this is a pivotal tournament for Shelton because again, American on US, New York, you know that's gonna be a nighttime match on Ash, right? Against Alcáez. I think this is the year, given his arc, now could he, anyone can crash and burn, right? But all signs are pointing to this is the year that he takes it. This is year that he pushes, if not beats Alcáez in the quarters, making it to the semis.

Torrey (54:12.968)
Yep.

Yep. Yep.

Torrey (54:21.115)
Right?

Torrey (54:28.04)
Yep.

Ashley Spicer (54:33.147)
I don't care if he loses in the semis at that point. He's proven that he can do it. He's proven that he can beat one of those two guys. So.

Alvin Owusu (54:41.037)
We're aware that Carlos is like, he's finaled like seven straight tournaments in a row, right? He's playing well. He's playing well. Yeah, that is a major caveat that we shall not overlook. He's playing well.

Ashley Spicer (54:44.733)
I'm told he's phenomenal. He's playing phenomenal. That's why it's critical. Critical point here.

Torrey (54:48.017)
Right now.

Torrey (54:52.69)
Yeah.

Ashley Spicer (54:57.937)
All of these points are because he's so good.

Torrey (54:58.053)
Yeah. And I think...

Alvin Owusu (55:03.681)
Right. Exactly. Exactly.

Torrey (55:03.848)
Ashley brings a point, Alvin, that I think we need to speak to. I think we are so ready for an American to threaten, and we are so ready for a kid with all the right goods to be in that conversation. I get what you're saying, Ashley. I may disagree with your timeline, but I agree 100 % on who it is. And Alvin and I disagreed on how soon he even cracked top 10, let alone top five. And I think he's there ahead of schedule.

Ashley Spicer (55:19.376)
Yes.

Torrey (55:31.944)
Do I think it'll happen this year? Maybe, maybe not. I don't, in my heart I say no. But if he gets closer this year, it bodes well for him down the road. I am really looking for, and I gotta tell you guys this, and as far as I'm concerned, I am looking for.

And I've been pleasantly surprised and I'm going to say this getting back to Alcraz. I know you want to get back on track Alvin. We saw the French and guys, I got to tell you, I was worried. I saw, I'm a little older than both of you. I saw Borg-McEnroe. I saw that rivalry take off and I was like, oh snap. These two could be the one and two for the rest of the next 10 years. Every tournament is going to be McEnroe-Borg.

Ashley Spicer (56:21.243)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey (56:22.587)
And out of nowhere, out of nowhere, Borg retires after six Frenchs and five Wimbys, five in a by the way. And all of a sudden, McEnroe in a weird way was kind of floundering without that rival. I saw Pete Andre and they kind of, they had some great matches. And then all of a sudden it wasn't. I was worried that they were going to get to the next three or four finals and each of them was going to, we're going to push.

Ashley Spicer (56:38.383)
Yeah.

Torrey (56:51.878)
push each other at such a high point, the rest of the guys couldn't keep up. We did not see the same final in Wimby as we saw in the French. And we saw in Sensi, no final. Your boy kind of threw in the towel. And so I'm actually pleasantly surprised that the window is still open. And I'm hoping that the window will stay open just long enough for a bit, even a tailor.

Ashley Spicer (57:16.207)
Yeah.

Torrey (57:21.718)
Even an even a top somebody to just sneak in the Alex. I mean, I don't feel happen Sasha, but I'm hoping it does somebody the sneak in there to be able to disrupt the flow because if another French final happens and another one happens in 2026 and maybe two happen, they will continue to be the Fed Nadal the Nadal Novak, whatever.

Alvin Owusu (57:22.626)
It's

Ashley Spicer (57:35.43)
Yeah.

Torrey (57:51.282)
of the next so many years and at that point guys they're just playing too good a tennis to let the rest of them catch up and so that's what I'm hoping I'm somebody dings them enough to pause that from happening Alvin

Ashley Spicer (57:58.737)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (57:59.073)
Right, I think.

Alvin Owusu (58:05.345)
Yeah, yeah again, hope, we hope. And I think we want certain things. Like there would be nothing better if the Ben Shelton that exists with all of his charisma, his on court flair, his off court personality, like he would be the best thing that ever happened, not ever happened, but like he's the best possible thing that could happen to American tennis right now on the men's side, right? He is the, he is the,

Ashley Spicer (58:08.623)
Ha

Torrey (58:29.968)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (58:33.506)
the pair to Coco, right? And you've seen them in commercials together. Like if we could have both of them at being successful, winning Grand Slam at the same time, that'd be great. And I'll be the first to admit, I've been wrong about Ben Shelton every step of the way up until now. TH, you've been on it. I've been a little less confident in what his ceiling could be. But I don't think the argument that I'm making is about his ceiling.

Ashley Spicer (58:36.495)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey (58:40.746)
Yeah.

Torrey (58:58.482)
Yep. Right. Lack of a feeling. No, no, no, no. Biddleby Hall of Fame. We're talking about best of all time. They are competing with five of the best of all time. Labor.

Alvin Owusu (59:03.86)
It's about the other two. We're talking about what I think we all agree is we're talking about, we're talking about Hall of Fame players in front of him. He's good. They're great.

Ashley Spicer (59:06.907)
Sure.

Torrey (59:23.61)
Pete Novak, best of all time. You're talking goat of goat.

Alvin Owusu (59:23.914)
Right, okay, all right. They're threatening.

Yeah, health, health, health with standing there, they're pushing, they're pushing goat, like level conversations with, know, get some more years behind them and, and Ben Wednesday, grand slam, then he's, you he then he makes a whole thing. But like, that's, that's where I'm just not.

Torrey (59:43.461)
Ben wins a Grand Slam, he's as good as Andy Roddick. You know, let's be honest. And that's pretty good. That's pretty freaking good.

Alvin Owusu (59:47.907)
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you. Yeah. I mean, he's pretty good right now. he's... Right. Yeah. mean, oh, hey, I mean, let's not completely dismiss Taylor first out of hand. He did final Wimbledon last year. Last year. Just the last one they had. mean, US Open, US Open, sorry. He final US Open last year.

Ashley Spicer (59:52.059)
Yeah. A lost great American hope.

you

Ashley Spicer (01:00:07.599)
The way I feel, you know...

The way I feel about Sverev is very similar to the way I feel about Fritz. I've wanted and seen the potential.

And just time and time again, I think they just come up short. And I haven't seen that from Shelton. think every time I'm like, there's potential. He exceeds my expectations at that stage. Right? And so that's where I'm coming from with the excitement and the passion and the forward thinking when it comes to Shelton. But all is left to be said. Can we talk about Mountain Man Riley Opelkoek taking on Alcárez in the first round?

Torrey (01:00:31.236)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:47.334)
Yeah, that is not a match that we should overlook because it's not, it's not real, yeah, it's, ugh, I hate it, I hate it. I don't like any Riley O'Pulko matches.

Ashley Spicer (01:00:52.081)
Hehehehe

Torrey (01:01:00.017)
I will fly up to New York and buy Riley a steak dinner if he beats Carlos and just for what it does for the rest of the draw. But I also have to say I saw Riley and Venus play in the mixed and I have to say.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:16.354)
It's three out of five, it ain't gonna happen. It's too much tennis, it's too much tennis. Two out of three, maybe, maybe. Hell, he beat Novak this year in two out three. But three out of five, eh, eh. It ain't gonna be pretty, but I think Carlos is gonna be all right. It's gonna be all right. That's it, guys. That's a mixed doubles of Stravaganza, a women's draw and a men's draw. This might be the longest podcast we've ever done.

Ashley Spicer (01:01:18.833)
them.

Torrey (01:01:40.452)
Yep. You're welcome. I love it.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:44.726)
But I think we can stop there. Yeah, this is what we do. This is what we do four times a year.

Ashley Spicer (01:01:45.381)
You're welcome, Ellen.

Wait, before we wrap it up, picks on the men's side. Alvin, I'm not gonna let you get away with this one. I think my pick is pretty, I think I've almost been too fan girl over here about it. So if it's not obvious, my pick is Shelton this year. I'm gonna go out on a limb. There's some hope and dreams being put on him a little bit from my end and I accept that, I accept the risk factor there, but I'm gonna go all in on Shelton this year. Alvin, where are you at?

Alvin Owusu (01:01:55.564)
Whoo!

Torrey (01:02:12.996)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:22.593)
I'm actually gonna take Carlos and I'll even be a little more specific about it. Well, I'm gonna be more specific about it. think we do get, we get part three, Carlos versus Center. And I feel like I saw the best match Yannick Center could possibly play in the finals of the Wimbledon. Like that was, I feel like that was it. that was it. Carlos could have played better. I think Carlos is.

Torrey (01:02:25.38)
.

Ashley Spicer (01:02:25.595)
shocking.

Torrey (01:02:38.091)
Yeah. He has a high ceiling.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:51.603)
He still has more room to improve. And I feel like for this, I can't live in a world, I don't feel like we're gonna live in a world where Yannick's Center wins three grand slams in a year. But we could do two a piece. Two a piece feels right. Yeah, that's three grand slams in a year is rarefied air. Like, I'm not ready to go there quite yet. Now, I don't have a, I can't do anything about it. I just feel like when this year is over,

Ashley Spicer (01:03:05.957)
That doesn't feel like the right timing.

Torrey (01:03:09.796)
.

Alvin Owusu (01:03:21.547)
this year does not end, like we don't write the 2025 chapter with, Yannick Center had one of the best years that anyone's ever had in men's tennis.

Torrey (01:03:30.11)
Just just that he's had too much help even to get to where he's at. He's had too much help already. I mean Dimitrov notwithstanding and Holgerun not challenging the ref about how long is this guy going to take notwithstanding and to and a few of the matches he's rancidly has now would not have happened.

Alvin Owusu (01:03:30.837)
Yeah, Tory.

Ashley Spicer (01:03:30.939)
TH, what's your plan?

Torrey (01:03:47.267)
I agree with you Alvin. think this is a caress of tournament. He's playing well. Just beat him last week. Playing healthier. What typically happens in New York is there's usually two different weeks. There's a cool, wet, rainy week, post rain, post hurricanes, and there's a brutal heat week and all of a sudden it becomes a war of attrition. And I think that's what this was already shaping up to be. I don't think Yanuk's going to come in 100%. I don't think...

Carlos is dinged up and both those two factors lead me to think about Carlos. What I'm hoping happens Ashley is that Ben gets closer. Ben gets a step closer and I hope he gets a set closer. I he gets five set closer. I hope he gets to the point where he believes he can be there. I agree with hope is not a strategy. I won't count on the great Adam Guski. However, I also feel that

You also have to believe in something. If I believe I'm getting closer and the score backs that up, he got four sets on clay, right? If he can get four sets on five sets on hardcore, he knows he's just a few loose games away from getting there. And I'm hoping that he Taylor and you heard it right here. And I love this player and it's in New York and this is back in his backyard. I'm hoping that he Taylor and Francis have phenomenal tournaments just to get, to get the fans a little more what they want.

I think it might be a bit of a swan song for Francis, not that he's going to be done soon, but maybe his peak. And I'm hoping that the rest of the Americans have a really good shot, but it's going to take some heavy lifting to get to that rare air where Carlos and those guys are at. And I'm also hoping that they don't have an epic final that keep pushing them out of the stratosphere so the other guys can kind of catch up. If they do.

Ashley Spicer (01:05:36.197)
the reach. Yeah.

Torrey (01:05:39.764)
If they have three more French's that they had this year, the level is going to be so high. You can beat them on a bad day, but the chances are very slim. If they don't have another one or somebody upsets that apple cart, then there's still room for one of those guys to upset. So Carlos, I think Carlos and he doesn't drop many sets in route. And I'm really hoping, I'm really hoping somebody knocks off center while he's dinged up right now.

So that way it'll, it alone will upend this series of the 3.0 Alcaraz Center.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:19.681)
All right, I feel good about, yeah, this was good, this was good. We will, I think the best, the promise I can make is maybe we'll check back in. No, no, I'm gonna pin, I'm gonna throw the pin in it in a second here. know, people are probably hearing this on Friday or Saturday, tournament starts on Sunday, and then we'll check back in again on maybe let's say Wednesday, I'm heading up to New York on Thursday, Friday.

Ashley Spicer (01:06:21.147)
Thank you guys so much.

Ashley Spicer (01:06:34.095)
I'm going

Alvin Owusu (01:06:48.169)
and then we'll get back to dancing in the second week. But yeah, that's the three. That's Ashley, that's Tori, I'm Alvin. We are out.

Torrey (01:06:49.217)
We'll have you back anytime. This was fun.

Ashley Spicer (01:06:51.962)
awesome.

Ashley Spicer (01:06:57.979)
Thanks.