Ep. 62: US Open Semifinal Review | Anisimova vs. Osaka, Sabalenka vs. Pegula, Alcaraz vs. Djokovic, Sinner vs. Auger-Aliassime

Alvin Owusu (00:01.134)
And welcome to another edition of the Best 3 Podcast. I am Alvin, that is Tory. It is, what's up, what's up? It is late on Friday night. We're still doing these night recordings, because it's US Open under the light. So tonight, what have we got on store for the people tonight? We've got a little semi-finals review on the women's side, and then do a little looking forward to the final.

Torrey Hawkins (00:01.249)
I just saw a six. Yeah, there you go.

Torrey Hawkins (00:10.994)
What what up?

Alvin Owusu (00:27.982)
And then we've also got same thing on the men's side. So right now we're recording while Yannick and Felix are playing. It's one set of piece. Felix is looking like he's trying to cause some trouble. Good trouble. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (00:43.132)
God bless him, God bless him for doing it. mean, because that first set, I thought it was going away, Alvin. I I thought it was gonna be an absolute Bill Walton clinic. And I'm gonna tell you, and know, Musetti tried this the other night as well and couldn't necessarily close the deal. I'm very excited for Felix's resurgence. I'm very excited. As was noted in the pregame, he does have a winning record against Yannick.

Alvin Owusu (00:53.933)
Yeah

Torrey Hawkins (01:11.729)
Of that was from some years ago. Beat him in Cincinnati, I think two years ago. Obviously got drugged by him a few weeks ago. different, very different Felix and very different Yannick, obviously. hoping, I'm just hoping for, what I'm hoping for Alvin is for Felix to believe that he has a chance. And then we have another player, current younger player who can be the foil.

Alvin Owusu (01:12.024)
Sure. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:18.434)
weeks ago yep

Torrey Hawkins (01:40.209)
for the big two in any match going forward. I feel like we're running thin on those kinds of players as of right now. And on the men's side, and I don't want to get too ahead. I know you got a nice agenda laid out, but there's only one elder statesman that has proven that he is a consistent semi-finalist in these slams. And being 38, you don't know how much longer that's going to last. And so to prevent this from becoming the Al Kharaz and Yannick Center show.

Alvin Owusu (01:46.958)
On the mid side, on the mid side, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Alvin Owusu (02:04.493)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (02:09.691)
You'd like to see someone be able to thwart that two-headed hydra at this point.

Alvin Owusu (02:17.964)
Yeah, and like I said, we're recording right now as Felix and Center are playing their match. So, you know, they might finish by time we get to that portion of tonight's show. They might not, but you know, we got things to do. But I will say one thing about Felix is it feels like his game itself, he has all the tools when you look for like, how would you build a player? Like he has everything. So the margins between him being

Torrey Hawkins (02:39.474)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (02:47.534)
threatening for top 10, a consistent quarterfinalist at Grand Slams. And him flaking out and losing in the second round of Grand Slams is so thin. It's like he can fluctuate half a point either direction and that changes what he's able to produce. And right now it seems like he's in a really good mindset. seems like game, I'm not gonna say game style, I'm gonna say game plan clarity is there. He's not.

Torrey Hawkins (02:51.761)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (03:11.917)
Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (03:15.074)
what he usually does is overthink. He doesn't seem like he's overthinking the way Felix would. And so he's, yes, exactly. like, that's like, that's just a difference. That can be a difference of a week. That could be a thing a coach says that just gets him to see things a little bit different, yet he is still the same player with all the tools and all the talent. he, he, like now he is the second person to take a set off Yannick in this tournament. The first being his countryman, Shapovalov. And like we were talking before we got started, like,

Torrey Hawkins (03:27.665)
Yeah.

Right. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (03:45.262)
what do they both have in common? Like they're both above average athletes, right? Can move, can create pace from the baseline, from the corners, big serves, like can take, can receive Yannick's pace and inject their own and stay in those high tempo rallies with him from a physical standpoint. So, I don't know.

Torrey Hawkins (03:58.659)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Yep. Yep. And both possess a rangy unpredictableness that you just don't always know how to prepare for. If I am a Yannick center and part of the team, you kind of coach off people's tendencies, right? And their friends. You don't necessarily coach off of what's possible. You coach off what's probable. And I feel like, you know, Felix,

is, you know, has been Mr. Consistency almost to a fault in some of his conservative shot making choices and just in general putting balls back in play. We talked about him coming to the net almost looking for the mistake as opposed to closing it out. And he's coming in because he needs to because it's high percentage, not because he wants to close you out. And which just to me is why he has some of the issues he has. But the point I'm getting at is

Alvin Owusu (04:53.965)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (05:07.891)
for a guy like Felix is that can he override that impulse, that instinct and actually force Yannick to think, you don't know what I'm gonna do. You don't know how big I'm gonna hit this ball. You don't know I might go behind you. You don't know I might sneak in. And that's the hope that I'm hoping that he converts to this match is that that little bit of uncertainty that may get Yannick to second guess himself a little bit and.

you know, unfortunately, Mouseti wasn't able to do that the night before. You just knew he was gonna attack that backhand. You knew he was gonna run the forehand, attack that backhand, here comes a slice. And at that point in time, you know, and again, Lorenzo, give up to Lorenzo, forget as far as he did. He played it close, was it second set, got the six four? Right, so, but was right there. But after that, I just felt like, I felt like there was not enough that Lorenzo could do on a hard court to hurt Yannick.

Alvin Owusu (05:42.934)
Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (05:55.255)
Second set was close, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (06:06.206)
And I felt like it was, I felt like it was after the first set, it was over. It was just a matter of how close was it going to be.

Alvin Owusu (06:13.825)
Right, right. And it's interesting how players, all players have, for the most part, have a ceiling, right? And you all, know, a max of, they have a max of their skill sets. And I think me personally, all I want for any player, and I've said it before here, is like I want them to reach their own, like their own potential. Like be all that, be all you can be. And the interesting case about Felix, and I'm not just saying this because he's doing well in this event right now because I've,

Torrey Hawkins (06:20.252)
Bye. All of us.

Torrey Hawkins (06:31.858)
Right. Whatever that is. Right. Whatever that is.

Alvin Owusu (06:43.341)
watched him a lot over the last, this is 2019 Miami Open when I saw him in person, right? So I'm talking about six years now. His ceiling is somewhat self-imposed. It's not the skills. Like you said, he's conservative to a fault sometimes. And I don't know if that's a coaching thing. I don't know if that's a him thing, but seeing a player who has more than they limit themselves to. Like this is, now this is fun.

Torrey Hawkins (06:54.365)
Yeah. Right.

Alvin Owusu (07:11.917)
Cause it seems like he's at least, it might not be a drop top, but the sun roof is coming open. You know, we're gonna get some fresh air in here. We're gonna reach past a little bit. But yeah, we'll put that to the end. Then we'll have a little more information to work with. Let's go back to last night. Last night was a fun one. We're gonna start with the second match of the evening. Naomi Osaka versus Amanda Anna Samova. That was fun for me.

Torrey Hawkins (07:17.088)
Yep. Sure. Sure. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (07:40.017)
Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (07:40.738)
That was fun for me and it seeing players like the, the arena, Ash was weird last night, right? Both women's matches were, you know, they happened back to back great ticket. Like if you had a ticket last night, fantastic. But the second match of the evening, like the fans were starting to thin out and reason being it was starting to rain outside. Same reason the roof was closed. Okay.

Torrey Hawkins (07:51.238)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (07:57.221)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (08:07.485)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (08:10.421)
I got a really good match, got a little bit of another one. It's starting to dump. Before it dumps, let me get out of here. And so it got a little cavernous in there, but the tennis kept rocking. So before we dig into it too far, what were your of macro, did you learn anything about either player coming out of that match? Yeah. Okay.

Torrey Hawkins (08:16.068)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I learned a lot about Amanda. I learned how much, how much of a competitor she is. I was kind of thinking after the, EGA match that she might be happy with redemption road.

And the more she played and then obviously lost the first to Naomi who I thought was, if anything, played a classic match, sped up the clock, was moving through points, was like, I'm not gonna let you find rhythm because I know if you find rhythm, you're gonna get more comfortable. So let's keep this uncomfortable for you, shall we? And I felt like she did an absolute dug her heels in and made that second and after the third happen. I was very proud of her for

Alvin Owusu (09:00.288)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (09:16.71)
taking the racket a little bit out of the hand of Naomi, which is very hard to do. I was very proud of Naomi to get to that moment again. You'll be hearing more from her very shortly. I was very happy to see that match be as competitive as the previous match was, which is always hard to do with arena. Arena takes over the stage and it's like, there's not much left. It's like, follow that. You know what I mean? If you're in a concert. And I felt like JPEG and

Alvin Owusu (09:25.654)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (09:46.862)
Arena had a great knockdown drag out. And when the points are that big and know, Arena's grunts and JPEG is right there at the counter, it can feel like you're on an emotional roller coaster in that match. And Naomi's not very loud. Amanda's almost a gentle giant, right? So you've got this level of, hard, it's tough for the tennis to kind of, to kind of match because it's gonna have the same feel, as you said, then the start of empty out due to weather. But.

I was very impressed with Amanda. I was extremely impressed with her competitiveness, how she just would not go away. And I was very, very impressed with her level of playing from behind. She's a pretty good front runner and she's a very good ball striker. When it didn't go well, I was expecting her to go away a little bit and she didn't. And I was so impressed by that with her game. Start to trust yourself when you're down a bit, Alvin.

Alvin Owusu (10:34.806)
Yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (10:42.811)
you're a big hitter you do got you got to go for your shots that's that takes a certain level of metal and she showed that last night.

Alvin Owusu (10:49.695)
Yeah, kind of was, was letting myself take some notes as we were kind of moving through that match and just to kind of get an idea of the ebbs and flows. And I found that early on, like Naomi, and she said it as much in her post-match, so I was kind of patting myself on the back for catching it in real time. She reads the ball so well off of her opponent's rackets. Like when you see her going corner to corner with Amanda,

Torrey Hawkins (11:12.655)
Yeah, it does.

Alvin Owusu (11:16.649)
and being able to retrieve, absorb that pace and send it back. It's like, she's getting a fantastic jump out of her split step because she is picking it up. Like she can see the hands working and she's able to read like where that ball's going pretty well. And I felt like, okay, she's getting into these kinds of rallies where she's almost being forced into like being a counter puncher. And that was a, you the two matches that happened last night were almost, it was very similar.

Torrey Hawkins (11:27.073)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (11:38.478)
Right. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (11:45.247)
and that like the counter punchers, like I'm just gonna keep taking these blows and I hope I can almost run the clock out. Like almost run the clock out. And you've gotta feel like with counter puncher versus aggressive baseliner, you wanna give the advantage to the aggressive baseliner over time. In a short.

Torrey Hawkins (11:52.633)
Right. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (12:06.434)
Over time. Assuming the aggressive baseliner can finish the deal. Yeah. Right.

Alvin Owusu (12:11.852)
Right, yes, but like in a short period, like with a little bit of variance in their execution, two sets might not be enough time, but over the course of three, I'm gonna give the 65, maybe 65, 35, or maybe it's 55, 45 to the aggressive baseliner. And that's what we saw kind of in both of those matches last night. The woman who played with more aggression and more.

offense because they naturally had that ability was able to come out on top and kind of wear down the other player. Amanda kind of hit this gear late in the first set where I wrote down like I thought she was like once you realize that going you know kind of cross-court fairly standard style rallies with Naomi was not going to be her sauce she kind of went like F it and just started pulling line like

Torrey Hawkins (13:06.222)
Right.

As soon as she could.

Alvin Owusu (13:11.072)
Like I'm just gonna as soon as she could and I read it as redlining I was like, she's she's she's pulling her back and she's just going for it right now Like I don't know. I got nothing to lose. I'm going for it But then you fast forward two hours and it's like, no, that was the new game plan Like that was it now. It just comes down to executing it Yes, exactly

Torrey Hawkins (13:28.076)
took a few games to calibrate and then she figured and then she found and then she found the targets and went

Alvin Owusu (13:33.642)
Right, yeah. So that was kind of like the, know, foreshadowing the roadmap for her. Like, okay, Naomi's gonna, she's gonna run corner to corner and she's gonna try to retrieve and go cross-corner with all these balls. I'm just going to step up, tagline early, tagline often, and you know, let these numbers play as they may.

Torrey Hawkins (13:53.018)
Yeah, there's an old expression Alvin, you and I have talked about it several times. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard, right? But when talent works hard. I'm gonna give you a new version tonight. Cross-court beats down the line. When down the line is sloppy. But when down the line is money.

Alvin Owusu (14:05.758)
Okay, I'm ready.

Alvin Owusu (14:12.726)
Hey

Torrey Hawkins (14:17.134)
The results speak for themselves. And what happened in that match, I thought, and same thing in Sabalinka's case, you just can't cover it the same way. There were so many, I think the new tennis, I'm gonna call it high definition and analytic software that is called Tennis Viz, V-I-Z. We talked about it at our coaches conference we at. They're able to show a little bit of it for those that are out there.

watching or listening. You're watching the highlights. Anytime you're seeing Novak out, sorry Carlos out wide, they showed him in the previews in the highlights today. You're showing Carlos out wide with a forehand and then they superimpose that image. He's still there, frozen in time. And then the next ball, the next ball, before you know it, he's kind of in four different spots. they show his court position with his quote unquote frozen in time avatar, right? You can see where his court position is most of the time.

Alvin Owusu (15:12.14)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (15:15.778)
And he's going for that same ball. Where you saw Novak almost have to move up. So his avatar is now almost inside the court. The next backhand or forehand, it didn't matter because he's been stretched on line twice, is now going backwards six to eight feet. And now you're losing, you're winning that battle, but losing the war. You're taking away time. But when that person yanks you line, you're actually losing the overall war of attrition and you're getting ran worse.

Alvin Owusu (15:29.238)
backwards.

Torrey Hawkins (15:44.661)
and provided that player can do that time and time again, you will not win that battle. The angles of tennis don't help you. The directionals, to quote the famous Paul Ward law, that directionals don't help you. And I think that's something that today's player has to understand. It's very sexy to go down the line a couple of times and go for that shot. These players are taking a calculated risk to say, I'm not hitting the winner on you. I'm just moving you because I've got to hurt you again.

And I gotta have the goods, Alvin, to do that to where it's three times a game that I'm successful and only one time a game where I'm missing. If that up ends, and it often does, it's one versus three. And that's where me and your tennis and probably lot of our listeners and viewers are, we just can't have that level of accuracy on the down the line that they do. So it's funny, you mentioned the more aggressive player. Yeah, if you have that shot.

Alvin Owusu (16:24.287)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (16:40.149)
if you can do it.

Torrey Hawkins (16:41.177)
But you can't do it if you don't have that level of accuracy and you're inconsistent. At that point, it's more, I remember Craig Tiley at a coaches conference I went to in England during Wimbledon said, the conundrum, 66 % of the time you change direction, you lose the point, period. He says, and down the line winners are three times more than cross-court winners. He says, so there's your conundrum. Which do you want?

Alvin Owusu (17:09.696)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (17:10.84)
How good are you? And I thought it was such a great point. If the guy's missing, shoot, keep it across court. But if you're good enough, you know, the down the line is man, it is jackpot.

Alvin Owusu (17:21.388)
You I was introduced, you brought up Directionals. I was introduced to Directionals in like 2011, 2012 when I was out in Austin. And when I was introduced to it, it kind of like as a relatively young coach at that time, it kind of like lit me up. was like, I wish I had known about this before, right? And for those who are, and you can correct me and when I screw this up, but Directionals essentially give a player a playbook of where you should go

Torrey Hawkins (17:40.375)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (17:51.274)
based upon the position from which you hit a ball, right? So if I, and receive ball, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if I am hitting it, I'm left-handed, if I'm hitting it forehand, if I get a ball on the left side of the court that came from the, you know, the ad diagonal, nine times out of 10 it needs to go back there, right? And then now we're just trying to, actually I'm gonna pass it back to you, Th. I'm gonna let you explain directionals. Yeah, that's what we should do.

Torrey Hawkins (17:54.727)
Yep. And I'm receiving a ball. Right. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (18:18.731)
Paul Wardlaw, was the, I want to say Paul was at, I'm going to get this wrong. I'm going to say he was at Brown. I'm pretty sure it was Brown for a long time, head coach at Brown. And he had this, he wrote a book about it. And the whole concept of directionals was in a sense, the geometry of both you and the ball you have and the ball you received.

He would say, and here's a great synopsis of the directional's concept.

The ball should not, there's an angle that you're of attack that you're receiving the ball on. And if you are ahead of that ball, go cross court. If you're behind that ball, go middle. If you have the ball, go line, right? But his whole point was, but you have to be able to cover the same ball, which means a down the line ball. have to handle your down the line return. You have to be able to handle your back middle. You have to handle your back cross.

Alvin Owusu (19:07.637)
middle.

Torrey Hawkins (19:25.076)
which is why it is more likely to go cross because you can handle more shots, right? He would also say, if you went cross court.

you should go back the same angle that the ball was made from to not open up more an angle. If you go wider, as we all know, an angle tends to beget another angle. The beauty of Paul Wardlaw's down the line theory was, down the line is sometimes your only option based off time. But he said, if you are so many feet from the sideline, go that many feet sideline,

down the line. In other words, if I miss a ball, I'm three feet from the sideline, Alvin, my true down the line is three feet from the sideline on the other side. If I miss that ball wide, even if it's in, if I miss a ball wider than three feet, if I inside a foot, I miss my target. So his thinking was more about have the target there more than where it goes. You get lucky, we all get lucky. That happens. His point was, and if you're outside the sideline,

Alvin Owusu (20:14.133)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (20:36.234)
He was like, you have to be phenomenally good or phenomenally stupid to go for that down the line. What are we seeing now, Alvin, at the Pro Tour? Guys are phenomenally good. You got guys going outside of the alley, going down the line, routinely.

Alvin Owusu (20:40.587)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (20:49.705)
Yeah, the directionals is a baseline game plan for most players. Most players. If you play directionals and you work the proper diagonals, the right, aim for the right target off of the right ball, you will win, you will make a high percentage of balls, you will win a high percentage of matches. It's like, it's your baseline. Yeah, but now, yes.

Torrey Hawkins (20:56.773)
most players.

Torrey Hawkins (21:04.329)
Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (21:14.633)
100%. Pythagorean theorem, it will work. It works.

Alvin Owusu (21:16.861)
Exactly. It will work. But in this space, when we get up to the next level and that's kind of like, you know, directionals 3.0, it's like, yeah, until we start to inject a lot of pace and a lot of athleticism, like that by itself won't work. Right. And that's what we're talking about now. I mean, Ansemova versus Naoyama Saki last night was a perfect example of like one player is like, I gotta hold on to these directionals.

And then the other one is like, have to break it and I gotta break it early. And then you saw Naomi also then adjusts like, okay, anytime I get an opportunity, I gotta go as well. I can't sit on these directionals because she's getting on my ass. Any opportunity she gets.

Torrey Hawkins (22:01.877)
Let me add to that, there's a few times that Amanda tried to play the ball safe back up the middle.

Naomi's quiet mutant ability, besides her reads, is her ability to absorb pace and to redirect. She took so many balls, Alvin, that looked like they were soft angles off the middle ball, that she made Amanda's game plan quite easy. As risky as it was, Amanda was like, well, screw that. Every time I go back hard middle trying to reset the point, she yanks me wide off either side.

Alvin Owusu (22:16.021)
absorb pace and redirect. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (22:39.379)
her forehand roll, she looked like the wee avatar. But every time, know, every time you saw a ball, she has the innate ability to kind of short, shore up or roll or kind of absorb. Even if she has to kind of take, there's so much action in her elbow and her wrist, last second to get the ball down or in, she just adds what she needs to, like a good chef in the kitchen. She knows, okay, a little less shoulder turn, add a little elbow.

Alvin Owusu (22:43.785)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Alvin Owusu (22:55.113)
Elbow, chicken wing it a little bit. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (23:08.649)
just a little bit extra rest, you're good. That's how we'll take care of this one. And she does it phenomenally well, which is why she's able to hug the baseline as well as she does. The Amanda then realized, well, screw that. There is no reset. I'm better.

Alvin Owusu (23:22.091)
is that also exposes Amanda's lack of speed too. Like she's in the forehand corner and she goes middle and then Naomi is like flicking it like a pinball arm, like over to the ad corner, like, well, she can't cover that ball. So don't hit it anymore.

Torrey Hawkins (23:33.749)
Can't cover it. Better off running her first and get me a running ball that I can tag line on again and then the other way around. So it was really good to see that level sometimes. And this is ironically an offshoot of Paul Ward Law's directionals. And if it ain't working, go to option three. Drop back in the shotgun and go long. Because at that point, what else can you do?

Alvin Owusu (23:39.21)
Right?

Alvin Owusu (23:53.279)
Yeah, right.

Torrey Hawkins (24:01.076)
they've taken option one and two away from you. great tennis and I agree with you. Naomi catching Amanda on any other night or catching anybody else, she'd in the C, be in the final in this tournament. She's faced a resurgent and very confident and very clean ball strike, ball striking Amanda Nisamova. And I have to tell you, I've been talking, I like to think I've been singing her phrases since I got on this podcast with you months ago about.

the likes of her backhand and just the level she could be in, don't sleep on her. I feel like, you know, I feel like she has truly shown the world how good she could be. Many of us who've been watching her for a while have known that. I saw when she was in the girls 12s, she went on to win US Open junior. She did some time off, which I thought was good for her. I saw it early this year. I was like, you know what? Amanda's starting to play good ball again. And she hadn't done it yet at some of the bigger stages like Australia yet, but I was thinking to myself, you know what?

Alvin Owusu (24:38.591)
Hitah.

Torrey Hawkins (24:56.178)
Don't sleep on this girl. Sure enough, Wimbledon happened and she had a nice situation. And now here we are at the US Open where she won her tournament as a junior. And I'm kind of laughing like, yep, I saw that coming. But it's not anything else other than that you knew she had all along. Go ahead.

Alvin Owusu (25:11.102)
Well, even before that though.

Right, right. Even before that though, when she won the Masters event in the spring and then even at the French Open when she lost to Sabalinka, I watched that match and it's like, she's coming. It's interesting how she looks a little bit better every month. She's finding ways, and I think I might have mentioned this in last podcast, she looks a little bit fitter every tournament. She's finding ways to sneak in training blocks and she still has a lot left to go.

Torrey Hawkins (25:33.459)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (25:44.563)
as far as her movement, her physicality. The tools are there. She hits the biggest backhand in the event. I'm sure everyone saw the stat. She's hitting backhands bigger than center, bigger than agaraz. That 80 something, she's hitting them like forehands, like howitzers, right? And I think that's very well documented. The thing that last night was, we talked about this sometimes, her forehand, it is...

Torrey Hawkins (25:49.959)
Yeah. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (25:56.979)
77, was it? 77 miles an hour? Is you now? Yeah. Right.

Alvin Owusu (26:12.938)
75 % effective. Like when she has an opportunity to tag it, she hits it well. She doesn't necessarily defend it, maybe going back into the right. that's where she struggles. Even out wide when she's forced to hit it open stance, like when her right foot gets close to the sideline, that can be a little bit dicey. But if she catches one in the middle of the court, or catches one where she can go semi open, she hits that thing big too. So now we've got someone who can hurt off both wings.

Torrey Hawkins (26:22.737)
Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (26:29.683)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (26:37.152)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (26:43.21)
devastate off the back end corner, which you think is someplace safe to go, right? That's not an option. And now, so now you don't have patterns that like go forehand. That doesn't make a lot of And she hits a big first serve. and, and she doesn't give a shit. Like you hang a second, every second serve was lunchtime. Every second serve was lunchtime. And like you, once she, once she full committed to that,

Torrey Hawkins (26:48.285)
dangerous, dangerous to go.

Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (26:58.001)
Yep. And a good return.

Torrey Hawkins (27:05.548)
that's right. That's right. That's right.

Alvin Owusu (27:13.362)
Like you can see it in the second set, it's just like if Naomi doesn't get out of here in two sets, like I don't see this, it's one way traffic. Like Naomi's just getting more fatigued, she's getting more frustrated, it puts more pressure on her first serve, and every single second serve is like put on your track spikes, you're running. Not far, because you're not getting to this ball, but.

Torrey Hawkins (27:17.779)
It's done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. Look, I want to make one quick trip to Coach's Corner Albin on something that we don't talk too much, which is the mental side of the game.

Alvin Owusu (27:37.642)
Yeah!

Torrey Hawkins (27:45.467)
I had a talk with one of my players recently about how the mind can trap you and the mind can release you in the play your best tennis. Unfortunately, in today's game with so much data out there, UTRs and WTNs, everybody is so wrapped up into where they are, right? Their identity is wrapped up in where they are. That number is them. Not they have a number, not that's my current

rating or ranking today, but it could change tomorrow, good or bad. And I'm working on my game. It's this is who I am. Hey, I'm Tory Hawkins. I'm gonna I'm a 1470 UTR as if that's part of my body of work, right? In reality, that's just where I'm at. It could be my highest of all time. could be my I'm on the way. I don't know. But if I look at that rating and number and ranking as me, I have a fixed mindset, not a growth mindset.

There was two specific moments that I think had defined Amanda Nessimo to me. Three, but I'll speak to two. The third one was she took a break from tennis. That was big, right? That's the third. But the third one was big because she chose to take power back over her life and wanted to make sure she kept everything in perspective. She wasn't having fun and mentally was going down a dark path, she felt.

Alvin Owusu (28:56.4)
One. Okay, fair. We can leave that on the shelf.

Torrey Hawkins (29:14.745)
Number two, which is the real number one in this year context. After that match at Wimby, which we all know was a bit of a tough final. You don't lose O &O in Wimbledon, right? With all the pomp and circumstance and feel good about it. She was teary, she was emotional, she was 100 % embarrassed as she should have been. But she also was, she had the unbelievable presence to

speak to that. Most of the time when you're in a tough spot, the last you can do is be honest with yourself about what happened. She also said she was going to be back. She made a promise to herself. And here's the third and the biggest. It wasn't about a result she was trying to get back to. She said this at the beginning of tournament. I'm not setting any expectations on myself. Alvin, have you ever had a match that you lost on a final?

Alvin Owusu (29:49.396)
Yeah. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (30:12.995)
and didn't want to get revenge on that player or whatever, and that was all you were focused on, she said, there's no expectations. I'm taking a match by match. That's all I care about. And here she now is in the final. One, two, and three, Alvin, she has shown to me the benefit of growth mindset and not making too much of a deal, leaving the past in the past. And I would love for every junior player, every good adult player, every parent who is listening to this podcast right now,

to really hone in on you, your child, or whoever's game. Every coach, listen to this, make sure your players have growth mindset for the long haul. It's a tough game, Alvin. This game will eat you up and spit you out. But if you have growth mindset, you see it differently. You see it as a chance to improve and to try and to get better. And if you see it as a closed, you know, zero sum, you know what I mean, kind of a game, you will fail. You will fail miserably, in fact.

Alvin Owusu (31:11.05)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (31:11.404)
And you will be trapped by your own expectations and numbers and rankings and ratings. And you will never reach a full potential that you need to when you're out there evaluating your performance at the highest level. And I just wanted to thank Amanda.

Alvin Owusu (31:23.53)
Well, let's swing that over to even Naomi, because I think she's in a very similar position now that Amanda was in. I don't often watch post-match press conferences, if you get some good questions, you can glean some good information. And Naomi, one of first things that she says, she's like, I'm not even mad about the loss. Amanda played well. Amanda played well. Sometimes rock beats scissor.

Torrey Hawkins (31:28.022)
over time, she's in a much better position. You're absolutely right.

Alvin Owusu (31:53.482)
their instances in which Naomi wins that match, but I think if they're both gonna play to their best of their abilities, Amanda's tool set probably beats Naomi's tool set right now. So, yeah, Naomi has some stuff she can work on, but it's nice to have her in a place where she wants to be in tennis. She wants to be in tennis. She said, I'm looking forward to getting back out there on the practice court and training. I like the progress I'm making. I want more of this feeling.

Torrey Hawkins (32:06.112)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (32:18.667)
Huge, especially from a four time Grand Slam champ who's getting back there, right?

Alvin Owusu (32:22.501)
And that is an exhibition of a growth mindset. So, you know.

Yeah, also, who also before she had a kid, right, also had to take some time away from the game because it was too much for her, right? So you gotta, we have to always have to remember that these are, while we see them on TV as these professional tennis players, these young women are also, sometimes they're, you know, and they're like teens when we're finding them. They're still pretty young, so there's still a lot of growth left there and it's good to see them now both as.

Torrey Hawkins (32:51.535)
100%.

Alvin Owusu (32:56.463)
know, women in their 20s on the other side, know, obviously Naomi a little bit older and being a mother, being a parent puts things into perspective for you. She is cherishing the process of being able to compete for these championships. And you can see the clarity in her face and the clarity in her voice. Like as fans, are, I love the fact that it seems like every time we come out of one of these tournaments now, we have another contender to deal with.

Torrey Hawkins (33:03.513)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (33:24.317)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (33:24.733)
We came out of, we came out of Wimbledon and it's like, hell, Amanda Anna Samova is a real deal. Let's see what she can do in the hardcore summer. Not only is she back into a Grand Slam final, Naomi Osaka has entered the chat. This is amazing. So now we have, you know, of all the Grand Slam champs that we talked about that are, you know, in the, in the draw, right? We also have some players who are actively shaking up the top of the women's game. Like obviously, Arena is just still there.

Torrey Hawkins (33:30.937)
Go.

Torrey Hawkins (33:42.23)
All 12 of them.

Alvin Owusu (33:53.318)
and Jesse's still producing, all these weird cross matchups, it's like when National League and American League started doing interleague play or the big Power Five conferences start playing against each other, you get these weird matchups that, never seen this before, what do you got? I haven't seen, I mean, I was thinking about Naomi and Arena potentially playing, I don't recall them playing. Amanda and Naomi have not.

Torrey Hawkins (33:55.939)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (34:03.033)
Right. Right. Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (34:20.215)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (34:23.017)
played recently, and so that was a fun one to see. So like, this is...

Torrey Hawkins (34:24.823)
Right. Yep. Yep. And if those draws were flipped, right, JPEG and Onisimova would have been a phenomenal match. And to your point, Naomi and Arena would have been a phenomenal match. So again, like to your point, I just want to make that point clear because I feel like often it's all about the X's and O's, the tennis commentator. God, please don't let me get started. God. Sorry. Sorry. I almost went there.

Alvin Owusu (34:33.735)
Yeah!

Alvin Owusu (34:48.989)
Yeah, that's gonna be another, yeah, yeah, let's not, let's not, let's not. Because I'm there with you now, so let's not, we'll get way off track.

Torrey Hawkins (34:54.575)
that God, the point I will say is as a body, they tend, it's their job, they're there to focus on results and head to heads and kind of give us some context and backstory. But there's a person out there. I thought Yannick Sanders said it best. I'm not, you know, I'm not AI, you know, I'm not a serbot, I'm a human, you know, I have bad days and good days, you know.

And as much as he looks like he is AI generated, he is a hundred percent a person trying to do his thing. And I feel like sometimes we forget these people are all works in progress as we all are. Anyway, I wanted to mention about JPEG and Arena. I thought that was a, I thought that was a phenomenal match. One of the commentators said, again, I won't go south on Yalvin. I'm trying to keep myself good.

Alvin Owusu (35:38.717)
Yeah, let's let's slip over that match.

Alvin Owusu (35:47.529)
Thank you. I appreciate you.

Torrey Hawkins (35:51.147)
If you, there was only one difference in that match. Only one. Jessica Pagula serve versus Arena serve. It was the only difference in the match. JPEG went sliced body a bunch of times. And by the way, in netted results, her serve just isn't as big as Arena's and Arena is able to get to her game plan a little quicker due to serve. And I felt like Jessica was neutralizing Arena's returns with her serve.

Alvin Owusu (35:54.739)
What was the difference?

Alvin Owusu (36:07.305)
Hmm?

Torrey Hawkins (36:20.342)
A little different, but you understand the concept. I felt that was the only difference in the match. The match was very close as you saw. You know, three sets. JPEG off the ground Alvin, I think has answered the equation of how to beat Arena. But without a serve, she can't get the freebies and she can't hold serve off the mat. That's what I saw. What did you see?

Alvin Owusu (36:38.727)
Yeah, so okay, so the serve part is interesting because I think this, that is kind of recirculated a lot. Jessica, after getting broken in the third set, her first service game, she gets broken. The rest of that set, she did not lose a point on serve. So that is like, that's a thing to note. Coming back to the other part, Jessica, I do believe from the ground, Jessica did find the path forward.

But she kept, I saw this in the first two sets, she kept coming up short in one very, very specific area. When she would get into backhand to backhand rallies with Irina, any time Irina got pulled out wide, like into the service alley, and then got hit a backhand back into maybe five, six feet from the sideline, Jessica is not necessarily quick enough to get around hit that as an inside in forehand.

Torrey Hawkins (37:17.004)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (37:31.553)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (37:36.377)
Right. Went middle, went middle, went middle. So many times it was almost tragic to watch. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (37:36.497)
Not saying she needed to, but that backhand that she needed to tag down the line and come forward with, she fumbled it so many times. man, it was like, it was killing me. I was like, that's it, you have it, you have it, you've got it. Like that's the path right there. That's the pattern. She just.

Torrey Hawkins (37:58.401)
And there were other patterns where she went line, Alvin, off the rip when she's stepping two steps to it. Her back in that line is fine. But when she was wide-er, it's like the open stance down the line was not there. And anyway, to your point, I saw that as well.

Alvin Owusu (38:10.0)
Right. But that's just like a, that's when you start talking about the difference between being able to consistently be a top five player and get to the later in the Grand Slams and being somebody that's competing for Grand Slams, you need to, Jessica is going to be able to beat a lot of women. Just like they're not gonna get that ball back and make her, or they'll leave it in the middle. She's taking a forehand into the deuce court, right? But when she comes up against Serena,

Torrey Hawkins (38:24.556)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (38:36.194)
Right, Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (38:39.484)
the best of the best, and she has to dictate with conviction. That's the missing link. It's so small. The margins are so small. We're talking about a back end on the line versus an inside and forehand. She's got to have it. You got to have it. You know who does have a back end on the line? In spades.

Torrey Hawkins (38:53.099)
Yeah. Amanda Nessimova in space. She's got Joker, Ace, two, King, No Jack, 10, nine through. I mean, and it's ridiculous. And I say it to say, it's fun to watch her play with that. when she started ripping the forehand, she does an incredible job. I feel like her backhand feeds her forehand.

Like a lot of players foreign kind of helps her back and kind of come alive. She's a little bit of reverse, but bottom line out two great matches. I also like how Jessica Pagula just, I go back to years ago and shout out to obviously Jessica, but also my good friend, Adam Guski and his wife, Anzalyn Carrigale, who I know you came up training some with Anzalyn in the years, Anzalyn and Kristen. I remember meeting a young Jessica Pagula at like 12 years old at.

Alvin Owusu (39:43.866)
Ansley and Kristen, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (39:51.565)
the wall at like 12s clay courts, you know what mean? And I remember this girl, I had a little girl I was hitting with, Abby Grant at the time. I'm watching this girl with the ball, I'm like, oh, pretty clean. Pretty clean on the ball striker. And I don't even think she was maybe even seeded in the tournament, but she wasn't even that good, just a good hard hitting girl, you know, didn't strike me as anything phenomenal, athletically or even strength wise, just old, old rando 12 year old, you know, who was out there hitting balls.

And I remember Adam telling me she has a ball pretty clean. It's funny, the deeper the rally goes, you kind of see her kind of find that clean, but that ball, her ball stays clean. And I'm laughing. I'm like, okay, sure. I'm like, how is she again? I'm working with some top players at the time. like, all right, whatever. And Adam was the top player. So I knew not to take what he said without a grand, know, with any sort of grand assault. Adam's not one to give a lot of compliments. I'm like, okay. Kept watching her. I got married a couple of years later.

to Ansley and I'm watching, of course, I Jessica and her, you know, obviously her famous family there. Great. This I watched a few years later, I met the US Open at one of the coaches conferences I just came from. And I watched her quali in. I walked on the court after she won and talked to her. She remember me from the wedding. And I'm like, and I was so impressed to watch same, I watched her in Zverev at the same time, by the way, they were both on this, on these, one of these outer courts, like nine and 10 or 11 or one of those outer courts qualis, right?

And I'm laughing at the fact years later that I've seen this young woman go from 12s to qualities of the open to us open finals, right? Obviously last year. And I've just been so impressed with her body of work and her just very, just hard hat. Let's get it done. I got more I can work on. Let's just keep it going. I don't care how rich my dad is. I don't care about all that. I'll make a name for myself. This is about my tennis. Forget all that. This is me.

And I am gonna write this chapter. And I'm just, couldn't be more impressed with her as a person, with her as done a lot for lot of nonprofits for dogs and other things that she's done. She's a big dog lover. I just feel like I've seen this person come of age and she's now the elder, one the older ladies on tour who's good in doubles and singles. I can't say enough good things about her, which is one reason why I'm a big fan. But for the listeners and fans, when they hear me, sometimes as you say, wax poetic on Jessi Bagula.

Alvin Owusu (42:18.064)
the payroll.

Torrey Hawkins (42:19.271)
I just need them to understand I've seen this young lady since she was 11 years old. when you see a person come up through the ranks and be relevant to this point, it's hard not to like her looking at the work she's put in. That's all I'll say.

Alvin Owusu (42:32.242)
Sure, you're compromised, I get it. You can't, you're compromised. Happily compromised. Let's do a quick look forward into that tomorrow's matchup, when you guys hear this, it'll be today's matchup. Amanda Anisimova against Irina Sabalinka. Okay, they both got through tough matches last night. This is obviously a rematch of the semifinals from Wimbledon.

Torrey Hawkins (42:36.991)
Compromised, compromised 100%, happily compromised, thank you. Shout out to you, Gusky, what up, Goose?

Alvin Owusu (43:00.072)
Amanda won that one, you know, six four, four six, six four, tight on grass. What do we see as potentially the keys? What if Amanda wins this match? What did she do well? What went well for her?

Torrey Hawkins (43:13.758)
What should you

Torrey Hawkins (43:17.73)
She was able to keep arena on the run and not come forward. She was able to serve consistently that never gave arenas returns a chance to take control. We know the back end is going to be there. We know there's going to be some matchups. And if I'm arenas camp, I'm going all day to the forehand only back end if I can help it. because if I go to the back end, I do that at my own peril.

but she would have kept her back. She would have held serve a lot and she would not have this. I'm talking more about arena. She would not have any jitters late match fluctuations. She had several, she had several against, against Jessica and she will stay true to form the entire time. I saw a match last night or two nights ago, whatever it was, Alvin that arena did not look, she did not look pressed.

Alvin Owusu (43:54.408)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (44:14.194)
And shout out to the great Cliff Drysdale who also had the same comment. I'm not feeling it. She doesn't look like she did before. She doesn't look nervous. She doesn't look pressed. She doesn't look like she's about to cave. She looks like, like Jessica said, a good shot. And she's okay with that. And I feel like that's also speaking to her mindset, which has changed. Do I think Amanda will do it? I hope so. Do I think that arena is showing all term that she's that she's mentally kind of overcome that hurdle? I do.

Alvin Owusu (44:25.128)
Hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (44:42.107)
I think this is arena in a close two.

Alvin Owusu (44:45.128)
A green and a close two, okay. I have this, when I watch Amanda play, I go, she's the real deal. Like I'm done questioning or putting limits on her based upon, I value movement maybe more so than most people, or maybe I value it properly when at the upper level, as the great Roger Federer said, the best players are the best movers, right?

Torrey Hawkins (45:02.109)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (45:10.738)
But if you can, and we've talked about this for years, right? Hitting a ball too big for you to defend, right? Ball speed and foot speed. Her ball speed far outtracks her foot speed, right? These are,

Torrey Hawkins (45:15.965)
Right? Ball speed and foot speed. Yep. Which is why I give arena the nod. Just so we're clear. No other nods.

Alvin Owusu (45:23.912)
Right, but kind of like the conversation about directionals though, if you have this superpower, you can kind of override things. She hits the ball so damn hard that she sometimes doesn't have to deal with the repercussions of hitting the ball that hard. She goes past the limits of having to deal with that same ball coming back to you. So I feel like if she can strike first, I feel like

Torrey Hawkins (45:39.721)
Sure. Sure. Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (45:46.442)
100%.

Alvin Owusu (45:54.45)
her strikes specifically down the line are probably cleaner than arenas. on the, right, arena on the front foot, yeah, that's a different story, right? But when we're talking about going from a neutral position in the court to then going down the line with an aggressive ball, that's Amanda's wheelhouse. And I feel like if she can get there first and land enough of them early,

Torrey Hawkins (46:01.225)
bigger, more penetrating.

Alvin Owusu (46:24.197)
I feel like Amanda playing her, if both of their A games show up, I actually give the slight advantage to Amanda.

Torrey Hawkins (46:31.593)
100 %

Alvin Owusu (46:32.519)
because I think she'll just, she's like Steph Curry, she'll just pull from everywhere. Right, which is wild, that's wild.

Torrey Hawkins (46:35.497)
she can outstrike, which is rare to say. It's a mutant ability. mean, it 100 % is. My only thing is if it isn't, and if she plays her smarter, rolls a little bit more, takes a little bit off, makes more serves, makes more returns, forces. Amanda has a great ability to counter your best ball. Her strike off the backhand can be good, but if she's a little early, she goes back cross court.

Arena also has that line open stance backhand. And so I feel like if it comes down to athleticism, comes down to tactics, she also has a slice. If this becomes a foot race, it's two to one in the favor of Arena. If this becomes a ball strikers match, it's two to one in favor of Amanda. I'm just thinking that the two, three time finalist and defending champ will probably play a smarter match and go back to what didn't work and win big.

and what I need to guard against a little bit more. They're not going to be able to change, you know, who they are by tomorrow. But I'm thinking that her camp or Inna's camp, knowing that this is the last slam of the year, she's come up short all three times to some Americans I might have had. She's going to, I've got to feel like she will, she will stay true to form and play the best tactical match she can. Now that's me as talking tennis to you.

Alvin Owusu (47:49.339)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (48:02.994)
hedging my bets. Would I love for Amanda to beat Sabalinka? 1000 % I would love for her to. I'm just not sure if Sabalinka has other plans. And that's all I will say.

Alvin Owusu (48:11.559)
Bye.

Alvin Owusu (48:18.987)
I love chaos. I love me some chaos. I'm going to a Women's Finals watch party tomorrow and it's gonna be great. It's gonna be great.

Torrey Hawkins (48:20.594)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (48:27.805)
Alright.

Torrey Hawkins (48:31.208)
You're taking Amanda.

Alvin Owusu (48:33.927)
I the the the hosts are several link offense and they are also avid listeners of this podcast Matt and Lisa. I'm sorry I am coming in with my with my New Jersey strong t-shirt on freehold freehold stand up I want this I want I want the chaos I want I want I want to have our number one player in the world have no slams this year I want five straight

Torrey Hawkins (48:38.578)
There you go.

I love it. love it.

Torrey Hawkins (48:48.264)
Freehold, baby. Freehold. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (48:59.56)
that's your storyline that you're looking for.

Alvin Owusu (49:04.101)
I want the fifth straight American woman in a final to get one. let's go, come on then, let's do it. Let's do it.

Torrey Hawkins (49:07.398)
would love

Would love nothing more for it, Alvin. Don't sleep. Would love nothing more for it. And trying to deep down, I'm pulling my Kansas City Chiefs. I can't root for them because they'll lose situation right here. I'm here to tell you, it would be one of the happiest days of this fortnight to see Amanda Nisimova raise that trophy for all she's been through.

Alvin Owusu (49:14.543)
Yeah, come on. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about.

Torrey Hawkins (49:40.859)
You can't say that the body of work that Arena's put together isn't as deserving. And to your point, the end of this year, the women's tour, we've said it before, is so deep, is so strong. Here's what I love, Alvin, it ain't over. Whoever wins tomorrow just knocks them, just knocks the belt. I'm looking forward to next year already because each one of these players, we didn't even get to see Krijikova get through or Vardzhe Solva play her quarter. We've got...

Alvin Owusu (49:46.555)
Sure.

Torrey Hawkins (50:08.955)
three more players, four more players that could still imagine Coco with her serve back all set. Alvin, we're about to just knock down drag outs in the women's tour. So I don't want to get ahead of it, but go ahead.

Alvin Owusu (50:18.501)
Well, know, earlier in the year, did kind of go onto this tangent about how I want the year-end championships to matter. I want it to matter. I want it to matter. If Amanda can secure the dub tomorrow and hoist the trophy, we will be going into, obviously top eight go into year-end championships, right, by points. But also, if you have won a Grand Slam, you're it. That's four of them. Madison's in.

Torrey Hawkins (50:27.057)
to matter,

Alvin Owusu (50:48.583)
Obviously Coco, she's gonna make it by ranking, she's in. Ega's gonna make it by ranking, but she's in. Amanda might, she might make it by ranking anyways, but like, she's in. Let's make it matter. Let's go to Saudi and get those dollars. Let's have a good time. Let's roll up our sleeves. Let's try to win this thing. I want it all. I want it all. I want it all. I want it all. But you mentioned this is like, tomorrow's one of your happiest days of the Fortnite.

Torrey Hawkins (50:52.484)
Bye.

Torrey Hawkins (50:58.84)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (51:07.558)
and see a phenomenal Wicked Tennis where you don't know who's gonna win.

Alvin Owusu (51:18.737)
today was one of my happy days of the Fortnite because Carlos did what needed to be done. You treat that old man like an old man. Carlos looked unbothered from get go. He came out and he's like, I'm just gonna run you around a bit. We're done with this. This is nonsense. He's just looking at everyone like this is nonsensical. Why is he still here?

Torrey Hawkins (51:36.142)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (51:44.583)
Wimbledon last year, Alvin. Wimbledon last year. It looked like Carlos was taking away his candy a little bit. I'm the new player. It is my job to dispatch you because you're in my way of getting to this tournament. had to, I to be considered like you, I have to beat you today. I think he got a little bit in his own head early in the year, kind of went away a little bit. And I think it

Alvin Owusu (51:46.735)
I watched the match. Yes.

Alvin Owusu (51:59.707)
Yes.

Alvin Owusu (52:11.312)
The Australian match was weird. It was weird. The Australian match was weird. But he came out with the same intention.

Torrey Hawkins (52:17.421)
Alvin, I'm going to tell you right now today. He was more laser focused and locked in than he was with Wimby last summer. Alvin, he looked like. He looked like the champion he was and he made Novak look at Alvin. I don't think today was his best match.

Alvin Owusu (52:39.716)
I was gonna say he did not even play that well. Now granted, granted, Novak does force specifically Carlos into some bad tennis occasionally. There is something that he does tactically, and we'll get into it a little bit later, that it's for Carlos. He has this gift for Carlos, like this, I'm gonna do this to you, which is gonna force more errors out of you than you're used to giving up. But to your point, he did not play.

Torrey Hawkins (52:42.02)
He didn't even play that well. And Alvin...

Torrey Hawkins (53:04.87)
He's the counterpuncher. He's the best counterpuncher ever in the game. And Carlos likes to go for his shots. But Alvin, you heard it right here. He did not play phenomenal and beat your boy in straights. I said to myself when I watched that match today, I was like, good God. He should retire now if his goal is to stick around and win one more. He said as much in the conference.

Alvin Owusu (53:19.971)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (53:31.82)
I have a better chance of beating these guys in two out of three than I have in a grand slam. It's gonna be tough. He didn't want to say he was gonna retire because I don't think he wanted to box himself in. But I think today, I was looking for this Alvin, that was the first time I've heard him say, in essence, I cannot beat the two of them in three out of five. I cannot beat him in three out of five. It's just too physical. I cannot do it physically. And what prompts you to say that Alvin?

Alvin Owusu (53:40.496)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (53:50.278)
I can't beat these, not three out of five. Nope.

Torrey Hawkins (54:01.069)
getting your butt whipped by a younger, better version that replaces you and puts you on the shelf. But there's only two players that can do it. Carlos has done it now a few times. Yannick's done it now a couple of times. But I think this one today, I think he kind of thought I can get in his head a little bit. can, Yannick, can't get through. He's already passed me. He's proven it twice. He does better what I do against me. But I might be able to rattle Carlos a little bit.

And today he realized, newsflash, no, I can't that Carlos Alcaraz is a level better than me right now. And he didn't even play well. And I know that. And I was happy to be out there, but I realized now the torch needs to be officially passed.

Alvin Owusu (54:36.443)
And that's.

Alvin Owusu (54:48.57)
And every week, every month, Carlos and Yannick are on the way up and Novak is on the way down. That's just how it goes. And in the comments from our last episode, someone asked me like, why do you guys hate on Novak so much? And I explained it there and I will explain it again. We have nothing but the utmost respect for Novak. And Tori, I was speaking for both of us. I feel like we are both as fans and practitioners of tennis, we believe in progress.

Torrey Hawkins (54:53.444)
Thank you. Thank you.

Torrey Hawkins (55:07.108)
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (55:18.362)
The game is bigger than all of us, it must continue to move forward. And this is not about Novak. Novak continues to amaze us. This is about the next generation doing what the next generation is supposed to do, which is to push out the generation before them. And that is why I get frustrated with the Taylor Fritz's of the world. You're not doing your job, push them out. And that is probably more.

Torrey Hawkins (55:37.189)
Or the champ is that much better than we think and the new guy isn't up for the challenge.

Alvin Owusu (55:45.159)
Right, right, speaking more so to the greatness of Novak, less so to the deficiencies of Harry Taylor Fritz, which I think I remember what says. But yeah, so it's not about, it's not hating Novak, he is the goat. This is what's supposed to happen. And it needs to be, at some point, and it needs to look like it did today. And it needs to look like what Yannick did to him in Wimbledon, and what Yannick did to him at French Open, like clean.

Torrey Hawkins (55:50.254)
Thank you.

Torrey Hawkins (56:06.49)
at some point.

Torrey Hawkins (56:12.43)
Yeah. Thank you.

Alvin Owusu (56:14.884)
That's that's nine sets up nine sets down against the against the top two players in the world. Right in the last in the last three Grand Slams now. So what does that mean for Novak? I don't know if that means for the back. I don't know. I can't ever predict what Novak's gonna do, but I don't I don't think that Novak is here. I don't think Novak's here to play for third place, right? He's he's pulling out a third, fourth playoff. Let's put it that way every single time. And he wants to compete for Grand Slams if he believes the same that we believe.

Torrey Hawkins (56:17.572)
That's right. Against two guys that have won the last seven.

Torrey Hawkins (56:27.972)
We don't need to.

Alvin Owusu (56:44.068)
that they are still on the way up and that he is, he is fighting a different fight with father time. I could, that could be enough for him to bow out gracefully. And at this point it would be no one would blame him. No one would blame him. Like you did, you've done everything you can to keep your four in the world on Monday, four straight grand slam semi finals.

Torrey Hawkins (57:00.098)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (57:07.85)
and best of all time period. So I want to speak to the listener viewer who mentioned that Alvin. I want to give them a little bit of a retrospect reflection ridge so to speak. I'm at the 2004 Australian Open Alvin we are I'm there with Sco, Sco senior shout out to both of you and trying to play doubles okay. You know how hard it is getting the walk up part.

Alvin in any tournament. I don't care where you are, right? The previous year, Scott Alzma and Phil Simm, and shout out to both you two, won the Australian doubles. They didn't play the winners. They chose to go to Australia, play that whole swing. It was great. I felt like Skull was kind of late to get to the slams. 2004. Skull would go on to win Kalamazoo this year, just to give everybody context. Signed up for doubles, didn't have a partner, and there's this guy.

Djokovic or whatever we thought his name was at the time who was also looking for a partner. Okay. He and Novak got to the semis of doubles this year at this time in 2004 lost to Jocelyn Juana and to Gail Monfils. Okay. Skoll lost to Monfils in the quarters Gail lost Gail beat Novak in the semi they would have played each other had they not ran into Gail who went on to win the tournament singles and doubles.

Alvin Owusu (58:21.881)
my face, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (58:35.767)
His forehand was average at best. Backhand was solid all day long. Returns were great. Volleys were awful. And his forehand was loopy. He had no net skills. I was shocked that he got to the semis. But he had a nice draw. He pulled his way through. I remember thinking to myself, later on that year at the US Open, when Fabrice Santoro was hitting some with

Monfies, Jeremy Chardy, and Sco. I'm thinking to myself, this is the future right here. And I'm kind of jabbing with, with Faris at the time about these guys, very good, these guys, very good. Boy, they need a little bit more, they need a little bit more of this, very good. And I'm laughing, I'm like, buddy, they're the future, you're the, the, you know, you're the, in a sense, you're also random. Alvin went.

I choked up on my Gatorade about a year and a half later when I saw that Novak got through the Qualies at the French. I'm like, sorry, NASDAQ went back when Miami Open was back then. I'm like, that Novak kid, wow, good for him. He went on to win, I think Australia won, say 2009. And I'm still in disbelief. I'm like, this guy here. I was at a coaches conference probably 10 years ago.

Alvin and I made the biggest epiphany of my life.

I'm there with Katrina Adams. She was the new USDA president. lot of black coaches there talking. And we were talking ironically about Francis Tiafoe. Every coach in the room was talking about, Francis Forehand, that Forehand, it's gonna break down, and he had some greats in the room. Leslie Allen, Katrina, you know, who else? Laurie McNeil, all the former greats, right? I'm across the table from Chip Hooper. I mean, all the black greats are sitting there.

Torrey Hawkins (01:00:34.016)
And I made a comment. said, guys, let me tell you 10 years ago, I couldn't make this comment. But 10 years later, I have to tell you, here's my perspective on tennis. I have seen the number one player in the world at what I thought to be, he did not have it, point. And he has proved me wrong at every single juncture in his career. I failed to estimate

how much better he could get because he didn't pass my eye test at the time. I knew Jocelyn was going to be top 10 player. He never made it. He never made it. I knew Monfils was going to be Grand Slam semi or finals. He just had that much game to him. I knew he was going to get to one. He was too athletic not to. And I really thought Skol would be top 25. I believe that in every bit of my body. He had the all court game, good on every surface.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:12.601)
You thought just the one was going to be top tier player. Right. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:01:32.373)
Results to back it up. When I look back at Novak, it was what I didn't see. How much better could the foreign get? How much better could his certain? How much better? And this is what has formed my whole tennis being ever since. Novak Djokovic has changed me as a coach. Don't look at what you see. Look at what he does well and what he could still get better at.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:44.062)
Yeah, that's that's an interesting way to look at you flip it on its head. Yeah

Torrey Hawkins (01:02:02.018)
So let me say this to the viewer listener who thinks we hate. He has fundamentally helped me as a person in my career because I no longer look at what he does or what he has now. I look at what he could still get and how good is he without those things. And as they say, never measure, they never measure the size of the fight in the dog. They always measure the size of the dog in the fight. Novak has taught me that valuable lesson.

And make no mistake, I have never forgot that lesson. He has gone on to win 24 grand slams, most of all time. I think that's the most career wins. Alvin, there is nothing but accolades I have for the man. And I hope that he goes out whenever his terms are, but make no mistake, we are huge Novak fans in the terms of what he's done for the game. Our only, our only piece is that we are maybe a little bit impatient.

for our current guard to usher him out. We're not mad at him for winning. We're mad at the current three, four and five for not dispatching him like one and two have so that we can move forward into the next era. And the fact that he's still relevant is still a lesson he's still teaching us. I'm done when I say I'm done. And I don't think you all know that. And when I'm ready to hang it up will be when I feel like tennis can move on without me. Right now,

Alvin Owusu (01:03:03.513)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:03:31.409)
Only two of you guys know the riddle on how to beat me. And I'm doing this for tennis. That's what I think.

Alvin Owusu (01:03:34.8)
So you've told me that Novec story before and when I hear it, it reminds me of, okay, when I evaluate players that are playing today. And I made the comment once that I feel like Yannick Sinner has, we're seeing the best of Yannick Sinner, that this is the best of Yannick Sinner. And then it forces me to think, okay, well, why do I feel that way? And I often talk about, he doesn't come forward as naturally, he's not as handy at the net, but to your point.

And same thing goes for Ben Shelton. It's not about what they don't, it's not about where they are right now, and what they don't have right now. You have to look at Novak as the blueprint of like, and yet they still can get better. They still can get better. Just a quick update. Sinner did take the third set, sixth three, so he's up two sets to one right now. They're on serve, second game of the fourth set. We can live in this space.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:11.315)
right.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:33.879)
Let's just, I don't want to assume, but maybe we can take two divergent paths here. If we get center verse Alcaraz part three for this year, God bless. Okay, if we find ourselves in this situation, we've got one guy who's made three slam finals this year, and you got another guy who's made four slam finals this year. What are we, okay, that's actually, that is literally another episode. That's literally,

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:35.035)
up

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:43.251)
Yeah. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:04:50.52)
Yeah. Just take your time to marinate. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:04.037)
Literally another episode. It's, it's, yeah. we've seen one great match, classic match on the French open at Roland Garros. Yep. We saw a highly efficient match. Maybe, maybe peak center at Wimbledon. He played, he played. Yeah. Yeah. No, he, him in that place at that time probably could not have played better. He played amazing. He, he.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:14.783)
One for the ages.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:24.703)
At least up to now.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:30.303)
Sure. Sure. Sure. I like your word efficient. think that was a great way to. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:34.198)
knocked Carlos off the court effectively. Yeah. So, but we're here in this, we're here in this tournament now, different surface, which is awesome. I hate even speculating about like, are the keys to victory for each player? I feel like these two guys, we close the book and we just sit back and we enjoy. Yes. I think, I think actually, I think that is the right way to look at it. So I am going to, I'm not going to make the assumption that center is going to take this match.

Torrey Hawkins (01:05:52.615)
Yeah. Watch and watch two artists at work. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:03.294)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:04.229)
Probably is. If he doesn't, if he doesn't, maybe we'll record. No, we're not gonna record another one. We're not. It's gonna be what it's gonna be. You guys are gonna deal with it because it doesn't really matter what happens. We're going to sit back and relax and enjoy the final as is.

Torrey Hawkins (01:06:12.803)
Yep. And this final, will tell you Alvin, this rivalry is one of the best rivalries that tennis had a long time. and, and, and that is a full, full appreciation of what Novak Rafa and Fed have given us Pete and Andre back in the day, going back to the years with Borg and McEnroe. We,

Tennis kind of needs a rivalry. You have a champ without a rival, you don't appreciate how good he is. Martina and Chris, right? And let me say this as much as I am a, you know, I won't go there Alvin. I'm trying, I'm trying. Chris and Martina kept the WTA, like whatever it was back in the day, before it was the WTA, kept it on life support with their rivalry for 20 years. And Alvin, that's what I feel Carlos and.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:49.497)
Right, right.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:53.667)
Nope, please don't, please don't, please don't.

Torrey Hawkins (01:07:10.953)
Carlos and Yannick are doing right now. They are pushing the envelope of what a rivalry is. And I can't wait for the next iteration because they need each other to push each other. Carlos was a little bit on a walkabout, you know, early in the year. And he won that match, to be honest, was a little bit lucky. Great match. But he stole some match points and played some phenomenal tennis. And I think in his own mind, kind of felt bad for it a little bit.

kind of knew Yannick was probably a better player than him. And then it showed up Wimbledon. And then something clicked mid Wimbledon. I'm not playing sharp enough to beat him, but we play again. And you know who's showed me he's the sharper player right now is Carlos Alcaraz. He's coming to this tournament, Alvin. He's playing phenomenal tennis. He's showing net skills. Going back, he showed defense. He's showing offense, bigger serve. He is looking as sharp as he ever has.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:57.057)
and drop the set.

Torrey Hawkins (01:08:09.373)
And I have one person to thank and his name is Yannick Sinner because that's what rivals do to you. They make you dig deeper and make you improve and make you, you know, know, I'm gonna see you next week. You know, I'm gonna see you over six months from now. And that head to head is what drives everyone else. And that's what you have to appreciate.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:13.326)
at a center.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:28.674)
Right, yeah, it's, you know, I'm a, again, I'm a story guy. What is the story at the end of this year? We're at the precipice of the end of this year. Are we going to leave 2025 with Yannick Center winning three out of four Grand Slams? Like that is a thing that not many players have been able to pull off, right? It is rarefied air to win three slams in a year.

Torrey Hawkins (01:08:56.337)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:58.232)
Like fed did it a few times, no Vax done it a few times, but like that's the list, man. Like in our recent history, like that's the, that's the list. Did it all do it once? It all, maybe it all did pull it one, but now we're talking about three of the greatest players of all time. And then, then no one else, like people don't just like Serena, like that, that, that's it. Is Yannick center already. Right. Is Yannick center already on that list? Like that's the.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:05.635)
Very difficult.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:12.955)
Yeah. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:20.797)
Put them on your hand.

Yeah, excuse me. He's, yeah, I know what you're Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:28.608)
Yeah, I mean, if he, if he does it, then he is. And that's where we are in real time. But would it be better if we stick with this narrative for a little while longer? Like, let's say Carlos wins it. Now they've split the Grand Slams this year. They split them last year. Now that's a real rivalry. Now we're chasing for number one at the end of this year. Like,

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:31.963)
Yeah. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:09:49.181)
Yeah, I don't think the rivalry is going to matter if one of them wins or doesn't win tomorrow. assuming they both get there on Sunday. I think it's a rivalry either way. And here's how you know. Both of them are getting better for the other one. And that's already manifested itself in the matchups already. I am calling for a Carlos win just because of how well these played all tournament. I'm not calling it for the rivalry.

Alvin Owusu (01:09:58.532)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (01:10:05.156)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (01:10:19.045)
I'm calling because that's just way he's playing right now. And that's how you have to gauge it. There was some years, Alvin, and I'm gonna go back to the Chris Everett-Martina rivalry for years. Chris was always your consummate groundstroker. She led the first several. And then Martina got in great shape. And then Martina started coming forward and closing off Chris. You know what happened in midway through in the rivalry? Chris started coming forward and hitting volleys and whatnot. And Martina started getting better from the back and her back started getting lot better.

Alvin Owusu (01:10:41.784)
Right, yeah, yeah,

Torrey Hawkins (01:10:46.877)
And then toward the end, mind you all the time, Martina was a great doubles player and won a bunch of titles with your girl, Pam Schreiber. But I say it to say, they even crisscross each other's game like a DNA helix. So what I say to that is, forget the fact they met each other in lot of finals. They picked up cues from the other one, no different than Borg and Mack, no different than Pete and Andre and so on. So what I'm telling you, that rivalry has already been established and it's already

Alvin Owusu (01:10:58.638)
Right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:11:16.592)
helping us usher us into a new level of tennis. What I am looking forward to is talking to you in Australia, is talking to you in next year's French and Wembe about this is now center 3.0 or 7.0 or whatever. Like we get our iPhone updates that shows us and he's really got this play dialed in. You can't beat it that way anymore. And that's what you're gonna start getting to. And it's fun for both of them because the challenge is that

strong and the bits that the micrometers are that small to fix. Anyway, that's what I see.

Alvin Owusu (01:11:51.896)
Right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, let's, yeah, let's roll with it. Let's roll with it, that's fine. It's, we're blessed. We're, yeah, we're.

Torrey Hawkins (01:11:56.668)
Yeah. But we have to let the artist work. We have to the artist work and then understand it in the stream of time. We can't, you know, that's one of my problems with lot of tenants, commentators, my only dig. My only problem with the commentators, they're too trapped on the numbers. They're not watching the artist's work and we're losing the overall, we're losing the, I'm gonna call it the creative genius that we're watching.

trying to put it in context like it deserves to be in context like it's a box. We need to just appreciate it for what it is.

Alvin Owusu (01:12:30.852)
All right, that's, let's put a pin in it. That's a wrap for us. We'll see how this match goes, how it finishes up, but we've got a nice weekend of championship tennis ahead of us. I'm Alvin, that's Tori, best of three, we are out.

Torrey Hawkins (01:12:47.749)
Peace.