Ep. 64: Alcaraz and Sinner are redefining the concept of rivalry in tennis w/Patrick Parr

Alvin Owusu (00:00.334)
And welcome to another edition of the best three podcast I'm Alvin and I'm joined by Patrick Parr once again author historian tennis fanatic Yeah, Pat. How you doing, buddy?

Patrick Parr (00:08.684)
you

Patrick Parr (00:14.97)
I'm doing great. How you doing? Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (00:17.902)
You know, I finally got some rest we are recording this post US open a couple days after the US open and I feel like my body crashed last night so it's It's it's good to feel like a human again for sure

Patrick Parr (00:31.107)
Yeah, you were able to go there, I guess, for a bit, right? So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (00:35.166)
Yeah, yeah, made it over for that's what it been the Thursday, Friday of the middle Thursday, Friday. So like day four, day five, something like that. saw Novak play against Cam Norrie. I saw Taylor Townsend and Mirandriva and a little bit of Venus here and there. Musetti. Yeah, I saw some really good, good players, less so good matches, if you will.

Patrick Parr (00:57.706)
yeah i feel like whenever novak plays nori it's almost like a performance more so than a competitive match but would you say that that match was actually competitive i know the score line always looks slightly wow that was a you know good back and forth but i feel like novak has total control psychologically just throughout the entire over nori

Every time I see him play I just feel like Novak's just, yeah, okay. Well, I'll let you go here. I'll let you go there, but... That's that.

Alvin Owusu (01:32.206)
I agree with you and I guess that's almost like the backdrop of why we decided to get together again. It's like Novak is only going to put forth the necessary level of effort for the opponent that he's playing against and someone like a Cam Norrie requires a little more but not like a ton. And I say that, that's not to reduce Cam Norrie or any other professional tennis player that is on the ATP tour.

Patrick Parr (01:39.628)
You

Alvin Owusu (02:00.022)
or aspiring to be on the ATP tour. yeah, Cam played an amazing second set against Novak and I was watching and I was like, man, Cam can't play any better than this. I know he can't. And I think Novak knew he couldn't either and couldn't sustain that level for that long. That's about what happened. That's about what happened. Yeah, Novak is a gift, but luckily he is not the reason for which we are gathered today. That's a little...

Patrick Parr (02:08.524)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (02:13.405)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (02:27.468)
Indeed, yeah, let's...

Alvin Owusu (02:29.417)
As little as a little preview like if you if you've made it this far on the podcast and obviously You're aware by the title that we're gonna we're gonna talk a little bit about Carlos and Yannick and the last time pat you were here. We this was I think post French open final and we were all on this Kind of haze of what the hell just happened to us as tennis fans and now we've been treated to

Patrick Parr (02:46.38)
Right, right.

Alvin Owusu (02:55.549)
know, this is the third straight Grand Slam edition of that on the trot. So, I reached out, I think I reached out to you maybe a couple of weeks ago, maybe during, maybe during the years up and or before, because I had been made aware of Gary Nathan's book called changeover. And so kind of high level changeover talks about the history of the, the almost said it all of the Alcaraz and center, rivalry from 2000.

Patrick Parr (03:03.372)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (03:24.717)
So 2022, US Open, up until I think the book goes through the end of this, end of 2024, was that right?

Patrick Parr (03:33.012)
Yeah, that's right. Yes, it does.

Alvin Owusu (03:34.966)
Okay, and so that's, I thought it was very auspicious, one, like having just read Chris Cleary's book on Nadal, and I'd read his federal book too. He wrote both of those at the end of their careers, right? Which forces an author to take a certain path. But this one is like, it almost feels like these guys have finished their first chapter or two of their rivalry, and a book has been produced. So I'll stop there. I know you've read the whole thing, and as an author, I wanted to get your standpoint, your...

Patrick Parr (03:45.321)
Patrick Parr (03:52.737)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (04:04.523)
your position on the book, the existence of the book, and then we'll kind of dip into the nature of the rivalry of that beast.

Patrick Parr (04:13.012)
Yeah, let's start with the existence of it. Of course, I don't think Nathan was saying to himself as he's writing the book, all right, this is going to appear and then they're going to be in the finals for three straight years. I strongly doubt that Nathan had any sort of plan for that. So of course, he is enjoying this timeliness of the book. And I just want to say upfront, is an incredible read.

I feel like Nathan has such incredible descriptions. I want to share a few of the phrases that he used for some of the players. I don't know if you want to do this in a way that's a little bit impromptu. But I was going to give you a...

Alvin Owusu (04:50.306)
Yeah, please do.

Alvin Owusu (04:58.473)
No, I mean, if it speaks to you, then go ahead and go for it and we can go from there.

Patrick Parr (05:03.436)
Well, I thought maybe the listeners might enjoy like I'll say the phrase and you can kind of think of a player who matches that phrase. It's a phrase that Nathan used in the book and there are these. So one of them I liked this person, this player, by the way, all these players are 21st century. This is not like I'm not going way back or anything. Nathan, Nathan stayed more in the now. So the first one is a soulful

A Soulful Colossus. I thought it was just so well done. I got a lot of these, so yeah. That's okay. It's Del Potro. Del Potro. Walmartino Del Potro. I thought, yeah, no doubt. Yeah, I see that.

Alvin Owusu (05:35.725)
Soulful Colossus

Alvin Owusu (05:42.925)
I can't, I, I, yeah I can't, don't, no don't have it, I don't have it.

Alvin Owusu (05:49.866)
Ooh, okay. yeah, yeah, yeah, that works. I almost thought Musetti, but like too big to be Colossus. Like, Musetti's not big enough to be Colossus, so that's, that definitely makes sense.

Patrick Parr (05:58.539)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (06:02.22)
This next one is real tough, but he used the word crotchety to describe this guy Crotchety like somebody who just kind of ambles or boom you got that quick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. That's it Alright, alright, so we got a couple more. Let's see. this one Okay, just rolled out of bed Just rolled out of bed so somebody

Alvin Owusu (06:11.041)
like Andy Murray.

There we go, there we go, I'm dialed in now. Here we go, here we go.

Alvin Owusu (06:29.619)
It's like disheveled, kind of like Mevadev maybe.

Patrick Parr (06:33.077)
Right.

Patrick Parr (06:36.588)
No, this this was a little older older school like somebody who is Like like any he always has a bit of a You know some five o'clock five o'clock shadow rolling so Are you're in the you're in the right world you're in the right region, but not not the right. Yeah. All right That's Stan. That's Stan Stanimal. So No doubt

Alvin Owusu (06:41.99)
okay.

Alvin Owusu (06:51.361)
Like, gaske?

Alvin Owusu (06:57.077)
Okay, give it to go ahead and give it to me.

okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Parr (07:05.004)
I don't know, you all right? Can I keep going on these? All right, well, last one, okay. Let's see. Well, I think this one is like a loft on his own cloud. And a loft on his own cloud, that was a really good phrase. This one's tough, but yeah. And yeah.

Alvin Owusu (07:08.855)
I got, give me one more, give me one more.

Alvin Owusu (07:28.845)
I'm gonna go with Italian, is it Italian?

Patrick Parr (07:35.806)
No, but I think I know who you're thinking, but not that guy.

Patrick Parr (07:43.532)
But anyway, I'll tell you it's alright it's your Not it's your guy it's your it's your guy It's Federer he's caught he's he's calling him fed. Yeah, so Seemed to never sweat was another one. I should have added that one that would have given it away but yeah, so but but the point is Every player that Nathan brings up in this book

Alvin Owusu (07:47.041)
Maybe, Monfees.

Alvin Owusu (07:55.103)
it is fed.

Alvin Owusu (08:03.082)
Yeah, that would have been the one right there.

Patrick Parr (08:11.628)
He seems to personify them in such a way that is I just you feel like Nathan was right there and he even He even in the book he talks briefly about how he walks with Federer and he'd only had like a couple minutes with him and he says I went down the hallway and then I turned right and then I And and I thought wow this guy this guy loves a game. He is he's plugged in and yeah the book

Alvin Owusu (08:29.74)
and they made a right turn, yep, yeah.

Patrick Parr (08:40.926)
all goes all the way through into then center and Alcraz who we can we can start talking about I just I love the background the way he sets it up and I forgot that yes I knew center was a skier and I know that's where he gets a lot of a lot of that inertia for for his groundstrokes but I didn't know Djokovic I'd forgotten that he he skied as well so yeah

Alvin Owusu (09:05.802)
Yeah, mean, that's one of those like the center skiing thing I think was talked about a lot when he almost feels like the beginning part of centers career when he before he became this center. And then the same thing with Djokovic, but like that was so long ago that it doesn't even get brought up much. So I was, you know, kind of going through the book this last few days as well. And I even went, yeah, I forgot Novak was a skier too. And then all kind of like starts to make sense. like, like I mentioned earlier, like when I was

Patrick Parr (09:11.436)
Great.

Patrick Parr (09:24.96)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (09:35.424)
you know, first made aware of the book, I was taking it back a little bit. Like, it seems early for something like this, and you can look at it from two directions, like...

You can, most of these books get written after the career and then once the career is over and you have this huge body of content to work with, I think I would imagine then as an author you have to pick a, pick a story that you want to tell and then pull in all the artifacts from this player's career to tell that story. like with Federer you could probably tell three or four different stories, but, and then pull along the artifacts as they make sense. But it almost seems like here this is the

Patrick Parr (10:10.881)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (10:18.092)
We're moving from the album version of book writing to the playlist version of book writing where like I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, this is what I got so far. We're gonna kind of just like put this together ad hoc and maybe in 15 years, he's got four or five books and they look like a playlist at that point. What's your read on that?

Patrick Parr (10:36.62)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (10:40.696)
Yeah, I understand that and I feel like what if this year had not gone the way it did? Like what if in the finals we're getting Zverev and Medvedev playing each other or you know, the next generation actually does come to the top and in that way changeover would look like what is that doing here? You know, that hasn't happened yet, right? That would be premature but the fact that we've had these three classic finals

Alvin Owusu (10:57.462)
Sure.

Patrick Parr (11:10.156)
I think now it validates the book's existence. I do think it's a way for Nathan to show just how I think he saw the pattern. He saw the trajectory in a way that I think a lot of us were sensing it. And he just he went for it and started that. He probably started that book right after that 2022 match that he talks about a lot. The one in the US Open one.

Alvin Owusu (11:36.46)
Yep.

Patrick Parr (11:40.012)
I think in that way, he's getting rewarded. That's the bottom line. But I do think when you and I, when we were watching Nadal, you know, with those Capri pants, you know, and that long hair and pulling that wedgie, you know, all that stuff, and then you got Federer on the other side. When they were playing right at the beginning, you could sense

little bit that this is going to be around for a while these two i but did we know they were going to dominate i don't know i don't know how you feel about

Alvin Owusu (12:15.53)
Yeah.

Well, mean, luckily, like because of the, I mean, you want, it's natural to juxtapose Federer Nadal against Alcaraes and Sinner for obvious reasons. But I think the slight differences do make the two rivalries unique enough in that Federer being a good bit older than Nadal and was the dominant player on tour when Nadal arrived. I think that's key. Like Sinner had

I mean, pardon me, Carlos had only won, I believe, one or two Grand Slams, but he was not dominant. He was good, great, but not dominant when center, like especially in 2022 when they, yeah, let's take it to that point in 2022 when they met in the US Open, Carlos ended up winning that tournament. That was his first Grand Slam. So you can kind of see like they're more or less taking off at the same time as true rivals arriving at the same time.

And I think with that being the case with Federer and then Nadal arriving and Nadal's style being so unique, I think that was the salient thing that drew everyone, both fans and players to Nadal. Like, we've never seen anything like this before and this is going to be a problem moving forward. And it was a problem for Federer right away.

Patrick Parr (13:17.014)
Right.

Patrick Parr (13:24.3)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (13:32.843)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (13:36.948)
No doubt. Yeah. And you're making a really good point. Federer was established. Nadal comes in and says, I'm in your kingdom too. you know, we're, I'm going to go in, I'm going to go in and I'm going to steal some of your thunder. And you could even begin to the, the people who are really into tennis, they were starting to see, wow. So Nadal is definitely pattern patterning his game to attack that Federer one handed backhand on the high, you know, on the high side. So.

just that's a that was so clear to see and then you could even tell a layman knew like a person who's never watched tennis and like what are you watching like well you know watching the doll he's just gonna he's gonna hit that forehand it's gonna bounce up real high and Federer is just gonna keep it shorter and shorter and shorter until the doll can take control of the point or Federer is gonna be able to turn it around and make it into something else entirely so in that way you could see this dynamic play

Alvin Owusu (14:24.736)
Right.

Patrick Parr (14:35.39)
at a very fundamental level. Whereas I think with Alcara as in Sinner, you're making the perfect point, just equal right now. But I think what just happened a couple days ago with Sinner saying that he was too predictable, wow, that was telling. That was real telling.

Alvin Owusu (14:52.737)
Yeah.

Yeah, those both of their post-match press conferences and probably more so centers, they were both very candid about what happened after Wimbledon. Carlos's camp said they went away for like 15 days and just like we need to focus on what can we take from that loss and how do we prepare moving forward. And then it showed up. mean, he's been playing

Patrick Parr (15:05.578)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (15:25.43)
Carlos has had a fantastic summer. mean, eight straight finals, right? He's had a fantastic year and it's obviously showing up. He's in one of the world right now with two slams to his name. But yeah, center's takeaway was like, yeah, I was too predictable. I need to get better. And we're talking about like a guy who just won two grand slams as well. Like he needs to get better because they are at this point where they are truly pushing each other.

Patrick Parr (15:28.972)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (15:32.598)
Mm.

Yeah.

Patrick Parr (15:46.998)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (15:53.077)
and forcing incremental changes and improvements out of one another. they're just, the result of that is they're leaving the rest of the tour and they're awake right now. It's crazy to watch. It is absolutely crazy to watch. But I wanna kinda go back to that 2022 open for a second. And the part that you mentioned about Federer and Adal and like the way you could explain it to a non-tennis nerd.

Patrick Parr (16:02.86)
They are. They are.

Patrick Parr (16:08.136)
I, yeah, sure.

Patrick Parr (16:18.582)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (16:21.676)
when you're watching it play because it's somewhat very obvious. I think the difference between the two players, between Sinner and Alcara, it's not overly obvious. It's not obvious. They're doing a lot of the same things. They're sliding, they're hitting, they're doing everything kind of out of this world. But the thing about them that makes them so attractive is that they play tennis differently than everyone else who plays tennis. And I remember that 2022 US Open match.

Patrick Parr (16:21.996)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (16:49.676)
I watched it myself, but I also remember the online discourse of that match as like attention for that match was growing on Twitter as the match was going on and from non tennis people were chiming in like, is anyone watching this US Open match? Like these guys look like they look like they're doing something that's not tennis. And I think that's oddly enough, that's the same thing that happened during the 2025 French Open final. Like the

Patrick Parr (16:59.276)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (17:18.24)
the lore of the match like hit the zeitgeist while the match was happening, which brought more people to the match.

Patrick Parr (17:23.882)
That's it. Yeah, absolutely. I feel the 2022 match and Nathan brings it up in the book real, real well, just to, but I think that was, that was something where alchemy was happening, right? There were both sides. You're watching like Alcraz is something different and Sinner, how is he hitting the ball?

And Nathan has a couple descriptions too, like, and it sounds like when you hear Sinner's Ball live, it sounds like a car backfiring or some like some sort of a almost like a shotgun blast, right? Maybe you've heard it. I have yet to hear it live, but.

Alvin Owusu (18:00.267)
you

Alvin Owusu (18:05.739)
It is something to behold. I was actually in New York last round of qualies a couple years ago. It might have been 21, maybe 22, I can't remember which year. But I was kind of on the back courts, like walking around the backside and I could hear some pretty intense hitting going on and I come up on this court and it's Sinner and Fritz are practicing on an outside court. I guess that had to be 20,

It had to be 22. Shit, what was that year? It had to be 22. But yeah, it's a different kind of like thwack, like two by four hitting a hard object kind of thwack.

Patrick Parr (18:37.516)
Okay, yeah, about the air.

Hmm.

Patrick Parr (18:46.666)
Yeah, yeah. And you can hear that in the audience sometimes, especially when you when you rewatch some of the 2022 match that we're talking about. was you would hear center would hit a forehand. It would be one of just a basic down the line shot. But you'd hear like some of the front crowd go, like there was a sound. Well, what was that? And you think that just went down the line. But the sound of it must have just.

Alvin Owusu (19:09.383)
Hahaha

Patrick Parr (19:14.954)
boom, you know, like comes off and everyone's like, I haven't seen that before. So, but this this kind of plays into now here we are in 2025. And I feel like center all he's done is perfected that shotgun blast of a ground stroke on both sides. Whereas Alcara's you feel as if listen, I got I got this now.

Alvin Owusu (19:21.29)
Right.

Patrick Parr (19:41.408)
I've figured this out. know the blunt force that you're trying to attack me with and I'm absorbing it now. And not only am I absorbing it, I'm playing with it. And I have the shots and I have the shots to mess with your mind so that you feel like you have to do something different. But then now that you're improvising, you're in my world.

Alvin Owusu (19:52.81)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (20:00.574)
Right.

Yeah, and Carlos said that in his post-match. He said, I don't really train specifically to beat Jannik, but I've played him enough times. I know him. I've watched his matches. I enjoy watching him play, but I also know what I'm getting myself into. So I think you're right in that if we want to kind of look at both players' true skill sets, like Jannik is a...

Patrick Parr (20:04.491)
So.

Alvin Owusu (20:31.179)
the best of the best ball strikers on both wings, right? He can find spots from the baseline. It's hard to say that anyone touches what he does right now. But Carlos has the ability to, like you mentioned, absorb that, but then also start to play with spins and shapes off of that ball to create opportunities for himself. I think it is a, while Senna's game is a little more,

Patrick Parr (20:35.464)
Absolutely.

Patrick Parr (20:48.524)
Who does?

Alvin Owusu (21:00.203)
I'm not gonna use the term reliable because previously mentioned eight straight finals, I think Carlos is pretty reliable. But it's almost more straightforward. It's just that you can't really, most players can't do anything about it. But Carlos has found a way to do something about it. Yeah, I think it's the best way to put it.

Patrick Parr (21:02.412)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (21:06.284)
True.

Patrick Parr (21:11.02)
Yeah.

Well, that's that's what I yeah, it's a great yeah, I I feel what sinner said He's it's it's obvious that he needs to do that. But it's a huge ask For himself to say okay. It's time for me to be more unpredictable when his forehand and backhand can be 99.9 of all players almost at all times like with you think about zverev and you think of the way he constructs a point That just gets overwhelmed eventually

by Sinner on a day, on a B day, you know, like a day where he's just, just hanging out. I think any player just gets overwhelmed by Sinner because they can't practice his power, especially in a pressurized situation. They can't practice that. But with Alcarez, he's practicing that power in these finals. And not only I'll talk, I want to talk a little bit about Alcarez and the crowd a little later, but

Alcraz is now in the environment where he's getting used to this ball while a captive audience is watching and that empowers him even more to understand what he's doing.

Alvin Owusu (22:26.897)
So I think you're leaning into like, there's obviously a difference in practice versus matches. And there's a difference between first round matches and Grand Slam finals. the ability to, like what both of those players do, playing these high tempo rallies at such high stakes, you can't really get used to doing that if you don't ever do that.

Right, like one, most players don't have the pace to keep up with center or the speed to keep up with the rallies at that tempo and then the endurance to then do it point after point to then be able to adjust to what it takes to do that. It's very, I guess maybe it's hard to, it's very nuanced. It's almost slightly meta, but they're almost created for one another.

Patrick Parr (23:10.273)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (23:21.612)
Yeah. I think so. Yes, I saw where you're going with that. Absolutely. Yeah. They're absolutely creative for one. I mean, and now they have no choice but to kind of parallel each other into this, probably into their thirties for all we know. mean, but I, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (23:28.83)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (23:41.557)
So let me add, no go ahead, go ahead.

Patrick Parr (23:45.344)
Well, no, no, no. The point I'm saying is if Sinner can adapt. The big if is if Sinner can change his game. I don't know if I see that yet. I don't know if I see in Sinner a capability that, Djokovic had when he was trying to adapt his game in all ways with Nadal and Federer right there above him. There he was.

But he did have a blueprint to look up to, whereas with Sinner and Alcraaz, you almost feel like it's all impromptu. Like, okay, Alcraaz just did that, now I've got to do this. But I can't see what this, that's why I'm me. I'm not them. But I can't see what Sinner can do now that will disrupt Alcraaz at this point. I just can't. So.

Alvin Owusu (24:36.778)
So that's a good point, like when we think about the big three, right? And I'm not leaving Andy Murray out for any specific reason, let's just focus on the big three, because that's all the space I have right now. Fed hit the tour and did Fed things and got out to this huge start, 2005, 2006. And then when Nadal entered the scene, you could see that it's his lefty forehand going to Fed's high backhand, that was the neutralizing.

Patrick Parr (24:45.694)
It's alright. Yeah.

Patrick Parr (25:05.045)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (25:06.378)
That's a neutralizing aspect here. It's the left handedness and the high RPMs to the one handed backhand. Got it, okay. And then, so you take that strength of Nadal's and then you enter Djokovic who has a two handed backhand and can then cut off that ball and take it down the line. Okay, weapon neutralized. now it's very fine margins between the three of them because we've kind of got

Patrick Parr (25:14.048)
Yep.

Patrick Parr (25:27.541)
Right.

Patrick Parr (25:34.59)
It's a stamina. It's a stamina competition, right? Sorry. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (25:37.627)
Yeah, yeah, but now we have three players who do no one, and then like, yes, you're forcing evolution in that space, but no one has a clear advantage. No one has a clear advantage. But all players, think maybe Novak might be excluded, had a clear disadvantage to some, somewhere there. I'm not sure I believe in that. But with these two players, it's not as clear cut. It is,

Patrick Parr (25:59.724)
Mmm.

Alvin Owusu (26:06.782)
the margins are very, very, very thin, like razor thin. And I don't, like I kind of, I agree with you in the instance that I don't know how much change, no that, I mean I probably might know that, yeah, I see 40 and slip there, that center can make, you know, because we are, talking about, like they're already battling for the number one spot here. But then also I think about something that, you know, Tori has mentioned prior.

Patrick Parr (26:19.468)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (26:36.149)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (26:36.906)
Players will change, they're still early in their careers, they will change. They haven't even hit their peaks yet. even though I can't see it, I think it will happen. But then again, they're both in the same boat. They both have plenty of space in front of them.

Patrick Parr (26:43.244)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (26:48.684)
Right.

Patrick Parr (26:53.068)
I think about Sinner's flexibility. I think about the way he strikes a ball and how much that has to change in order for there to be variety to that. With Alcora, you feel like there's so much margin when he hits that forehand. He could hit it with his body a little bit further away from the ball.

than say with center who always has this actualized position when he when he connects and I just I feel with center it's more to me I think if I had to predict like what he would change quickly for the Australian Open for example it would be to shorten the points it would be to use that blunt force and to get to the net and finish the point I don't think it is to stay in the back and let Alcaraz

Alvin Owusu (27:36.298)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick Parr (27:51.372)
play, basically. I think center if I'm not I'm not too good at predicting strategy that has not happened yet. But I do think if center might might have a chance if Australian Open courts will have a faster surface if he goes to the net and tries to finish a point early for Alcaraz to not have a chance to play the way he can off of this ball, but then also he's giving him a target. So I'm already arguing with myself as to

Alvin Owusu (28:21.47)
Well, I'm going to, I'm going to back you up there and I hadn't really considered it, but there is a, or is there has been a profile of player that has had more success against Alcaraz and that has been your taller players like yours, Veroves and your Medvedevs on hard courts when they're willing to, when they serve well and they're willing to attack him. you'll see extraordinarily high net points played from those players.

Patrick Parr (28:37.359)
yeah, true.

Alvin Owusu (28:50.214)
in the matches that they do well against Carlos. I'm talking, there was an Australian open 20, 24, think Alcaraz lost to Zverev. Mavrov beat him at the U S open maybe in the same year, kind of doing the same thing. So I think, I think there's something to that, but there's also a, that would be a, bit of a adjustment.

Patrick Parr (29:04.734)
Okay, right, right.

Patrick Parr (29:11.916)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (29:19.402)
for Yannick, which is I think what he's, maybe you're alluding to and what he's alluding to as well. I'm gonna have to do something different, because if I get locked into what I'm doing here, it seems like he's obviously adjusted. I'm gonna raise, I'm gonna raise this to you. Since the beginning of 2024, right, when Center One is first, so that's kind of the wild thing, right? We're talking about a two year sample here of these guys, of Center One is first major in 2024, I'll show you it up in, right? So that's where we are. We're eight majors in.

Patrick Parr (29:29.836)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick Parr (29:33.865)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (29:42.732)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (29:48.811)
two years in, right? So it's still pretty, it's still pretty new. What would you, they've played eight times since the beginning of 2024. Do you know what the record is in their eight matchups since the beginning of 2024?

Patrick Parr (29:53.068)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (30:06.732)
4 and 4 or 5 and 3 4 and 4 or 5 and 3 I'm gonna go 4 and 4 but yeah I'll go 4 and 4

am I doing? Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (30:18.078)
Head to head, Alcaraz71.

Patrick Parr (30:21.9)
7-1 my lord Wow

Alvin Owusu (30:24.636)
Exactly, exactly. Now that could, you could say that's an arbitrary cutoff point, so let's go back to 2023. It's eight and three since the beginning of 2023. So, four and one, and even just in this year, it's four and one Alcaraz. So like, what we're talking about here is, I think the argument has been, Carlos having some voyages through the forest to get to these matchups, and Sinner has been getting there.

Patrick Parr (30:52.342)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (30:54.056)
Right, center final in all four Grand Slams this year. met Alcara has in three of them. The other one Alcara did not make the final. But when they meet, now granted there's been a couple of auspicious turns here, right? Like obviously the French Open was, you it was what it was. There were match points, so on and so forth. Their matchup at Cincinnati, it counts, but you know, there was a retirement in there. You could even say their matchup in Rome, like center's first tournament back.

Patrick Parr (31:06.54)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (31:16.14)
Right.

Patrick Parr (31:22.156)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (31:22.326)
Part out Rome was it was it Rome? Yeah, it was her first turn back That was maybe maybe you don't want to count down but whatever they played the match was six and one but these the over the course of you know time things happen in all of the matches but in these matches the thing that most likely happens is Actually Carlos winning

Patrick Parr (31:25.568)
Yes, yes.

Patrick Parr (31:31.148)
There it is.

Patrick Parr (31:43.468)
You know, I can I ask can I ask that back to you? Are you starting to feel like this is not a rivalry anymore? Do you feel like that this is starting to? Sinners become pretty he became predictable a while ago, let alone the Wimbledon final which may have just been emotional Hangover from the French Open for Alcaraz. Perhaps. I don't know but it's I don't know but

Alvin Owusu (32:10.941)
Yeah, maybe.

Patrick Parr (32:13.708)
in a way, I mean, if we're going in this direction, here we are thinking that I, because there I was breaking down center, always got to go to the net and that'll change everything, but if it's seven to one.

Wow, that's a big number. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (32:27.74)
Right, so then it is a big number. And I think it's, when you start talking about the way that Carlos spoke after the Wimbledon final, and this is maybe indicative of their.

of their rivalry or their matchup, Carlos said, I'm not gonna win all of them. I'd never expected to win all of them. And even at that point, I think he was five and in Grand Slam Finals. And obviously he had just beaten center, but he's like, yeah, you in our rivalry, I'm not gonna win all the matches. I'm going to lose some. And that's okay. Neither one of them seems overly, at this point, overly concerned with.

Patrick Parr (33:07.254)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (33:15.444)
They're not afraid to lose to one another. They really enjoy playing one another for the sake of they know the other one brings the best out of them. And they truly want to, they've hit this like level of self actualization at such young ages. Like it doesn't really, nothing else really matters except for trying to be the best player I can be. And I can only be the best player I can be when I'm playing against this person over there. So money.

Ranking points, none of it matters. All of it's, all there. This, it's just how good can I be? How perfect can I be?

Patrick Parr (33:47.446)
Right.

Patrick Parr (33:51.132)
Yeah. And I feel that their fear is far more with, I get to this guy or am I going to lose to some guy who doesn't deserve to be there? I think the fear of losing to the field is probably much greater at this point for them than facing each other. feel like when I saw Djokovic play, you guys talked to you and Tori talked about that.

with Alcara, like the passing of the torch and all that. I we've passed the torch like five times at this point, but I feel, the way Djokovic just his post-match interview, just conceding essentially that his greatest skill or his greatest asset, stamina and physical endurance just can't hang with these two guys anymore. I mean, that was...

Alvin Owusu (34:25.588)
Yeah

Patrick Parr (34:48.8)
For a guy who loves Djokovic as I do, that was pretty demoralizing to hear because I thought, yeah, okay, well, it sounds like you're cooked, man. It sounds like you, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (34:55.059)
Yeah

Alvin Owusu (35:01.566)
Which is such an interesting position we're in because Djokovic, while playing a rather pedestrian schedule, is still the third best player in the world. the only person that, I mean he's four straight semifinals in Grand Slams, he's getting there. And he's running into these two guys and having an issue that these two guys are keeping him from

Patrick Parr (35:15.308)
This is true. This is true.

Patrick Parr (35:25.376)
He is.

Alvin Owusu (35:31.326)
being able to get to finals or being in position to actually win these tournaments. So we're in this entering space where, and I'm coming back to the rivalry question you asked earlier, it's these two, Gap, Djokovic, Big Gap, everyone else. So.

Patrick Parr (35:37.676)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (35:44.001)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (35:49.43)
Big app. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (35:53.502)
The rivalry, you know, I mentioned the seven and one current standing record between the two of them, which makes it seem a lot less like a rivalry. I think the third player in this rivalry is actually history.

Patrick Parr (36:10.322)
Okay, yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (36:11.486)
They are in there, it's a little early, I don't wanna call out the race, like we used to talk about the race for the big, yeah, the big three were racing to who was gonna finish with the most grand slams, who was gonna break Pete's record, and then who was gonna catch, get to 20, and then when Roger finished, who was gonna pass Roger's 20, and then Novak trying to put it up in the stratosphere.

Patrick Parr (36:17.42)
I'm in the re... yeah.

Alvin Owusu (36:37.288)
that Grand Slam race, but I think at this point, because it's been done and now it's something that they have to chase, that's what they're chasing. And they just happen to be, have to go through one another to get there, and therefore I think it's more of a, it seems to be more of an issue for Yannick at this point than it probably is for Carlos. Meh, might be a little early to say that, but.

Patrick Parr (36:41.991)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick Parr (36:58.802)
Yeah, yeah, no, no, I, no, I, I'm with you on 100 % on that. I, I've, I'm trying in my head because I just, love thinking about the dynamic of these two and how they, how they just keep making each other better. But I'm also thinking about, I am thinking long-term because, because we can, right? I mean, that this is the fun part of tennis is there, here we are in the middle of a rivalry thinking is this is going to the end of the decade.

That's 20 more slams, right? So in that period, right? In that period, these five years, you can't really even talk about age yet. By the end of this decade, they're still in their 20s. They're still there. And in

Alvin Owusu (37:30.6)
wow, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (37:42.75)
Yeah, they say a professional tennis player peaks between like 26 and 28. Like Carlos is 22 and Yannick is 24. So we haven't yet gotten there and in 20 slams we will then be there. So what do we have in 2030, which feels like a long time from now, but it's not.

Patrick Parr (37:49.157)
That's about right.

Yeah.

Patrick Parr (38:04.042)
Right, there, there, it's not. There was a, there was a point when I was watching Alcraze like a couple years ago and I just thought, okay, got it. So this guy's going to be a sprinter. He's going to get all these grand slams early on, but he's not going to be able to adapt his game and he's going to wear down. He's going to wear down. Bad example, but I think you'll get my point. Like Chang, as he got older, he thought, Chang's got the legs, but...

Alvin Owusu (38:28.009)
Ooh, okay. Yep.

Patrick Parr (38:32.117)
Can he, does he have that power and that adaptability of game in order to make a longer career? He still had an incredible career, but, grand slam wise, he just, it was, it just didn't work. I think in Alcaraz's case, I'm starting to see, I guess it's greatness, right? It's a, it's a, he's rising above what he used to be, which was, thought somebody who was just, I'm going to outrun, outstretch and

these incredible shots. But when I get older, you're going to have all this recording of me and you're going to get used to me, but he's, he's still changing. He's still changing this year. And yeah, nobody can predict what, what Alcraz will be in 2026. I don't see it. so he's proved me wrong. I thought he was going to flame out to be honest with you, like, this year.

Alvin Owusu (39:30.279)
okay. Well, it seems like the potential for flame out is like, yeah, probably one that the way he was talking last year about having a tough time finding joy and he also had some injuries and some of them were overuse injuries. Some of them were the forearm issue with the pronation and he got through it and it seems like this year in 2025, he has found balance. There are tournaments that he has not played.

Patrick Parr (39:31.198)
I did, I did, like, I'll be honest.

Patrick Parr (39:57.836)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (39:59.498)
there are things that he has chosen to take out. There are things that he's chosen to prioritize. Like he's a big go home and spend time with family guy. So he's just like, all right, I'm not going to Madrid. I'm taking a break. I'm not going like, you know, after Wimbledon, he's like, I'm not going to, I'm not coming over to North America to play Canada. I'm just gonna, we're gonna set it out. We'll do one warmup event and then we'll, and then we go. So I think if I'm looking forward to 2026, like what is the...

Patrick Parr (40:18.432)
Right.

Patrick Parr (40:22.324)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (40:29.353)
What are the changes from 24 to 25? I think it's more so like what have you seen in the last half of 25? He's found a way to be safer. And I've said this in previous podcasts, it's like efficiency meets excitement. Like he has found a way to still be exciting the way he wants to be exciting, but he's realized that there will be plenty of opportunities to be exciting throughout the course of a match. He doesn't have to like increase his wrist profile just to

Patrick Parr (40:31.82)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (40:41.74)
That's a good way to put it.

Mm.

Alvin Owusu (40:59.547)
just to search for the fantastic. He can be solid and his solid is good enough like 90 % of the time and then when someone does hit a good shot into the corner and he's running, he's on the run, yeah, now's the time to pull out the bag of tricks or he's chasing down a drop shot. But he's not putting himself in those positions, he ends up in those positions. And I think that's very different, that saves him, he's serving much better.

Patrick Parr (41:07.189)
Right.

Patrick Parr (41:10.828)
Mmm.

Patrick Parr (41:24.214)
That's it.

Alvin Owusu (41:28.393)
He's getting out of service games a lot easier. You're starting to see that, and that's just, I mean, what do we call that? That's just maturation, right? He's 22. He's the age of a college senior. So like, when I think about my own collegiate, my own collegiate career, my first two years I was a bit all over the place, and it wasn't until like my, somewhere after my junior year did I realize, okay, this is who I am as a player, and this is how I'm going to win matches, and that's how I'm going to play moving forward.

Patrick Parr (41:34.602)
Yeah, yeah. Right.

Patrick Parr (41:44.008)
You

Patrick Parr (41:52.768)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (41:58.6)
We were like the same age at that time. It kind of, kind of, kind of weird.

Patrick Parr (42:00.716)
Right, right, that's right. Yeah. This is true. It is, it is a bit. Yeah, right. Well, I feel the same way like at 22, I think. Oh, yeah. When I was 22. Oh, I have a serve now. Oh my god. Like, like I'm starting to I've discovered some aspects. But yeah, Alcrest is like, oh, yeah, I'm maybe one of the best players in the history of the game already. Okay. So

Alvin Owusu (42:14.141)
Right. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (42:28.135)
Yeah, so now proceed as such. It's interesting, the conversation now, I don't know. Actually, when I talk about the quote unquote conversation, I realize that I have a tennis podcast, so therefore this is part of the conversation, so I don't know if this is just in my head or if it's actually coming from other places, but I think it's coming from other places. The men's and women's games right now.

Patrick Parr (42:30.784)
Proceed as such.

Alvin Owusu (42:56.155)
at the ATP WTA level as you juxtapose them against one another, we have greatness on the men's side at the very top two plus one, Top two entering their prime, the third career is waning. On the women's, and then there's nothing else after that. Not nothing else, but there seems to be nothing to threaten those top players outside of, it's just center and Alcratize right now.

Patrick Parr (42:56.328)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (43:15.276)
true.

Alvin Owusu (43:26.565)
So that leaves us talking a lot about them when we're talking about men's tennis. Whereas women's tennis, we do have two players who are amassing a lot of grand slams between IGA and Arena, but we have constant competitors who are threatening, and not only threatening, winning grand slams. We had four different grand slams on the women's side in the last year. We've had five different American women in the finals of five straight grand slams.

which is, I think they're both providing a different level of entertainment, but which one do you prefer, which you think is more healthy for the game?

Patrick Parr (44:07.36)
that's a great question. On the women's side, I do feel that it's a little healthier right now, especially after this last Grand Slam. I feel I don't know. I don't ever know who is going to make the final in the on the women's side. Of course, you have favorites, but you never know how Ega is going to going to come out and will she like will she get

that domination back at the French now that what's occurred like can she go back and still be Iga who was almost going toward like Nadal like levels of domination I felt at the French like every time you watched her a couple two years ago at the French you just thought this is this is so clear like she's she has she has that slide she has the way she moves into the court and hits that ball

Alvin Owusu (44:50.651)
Right.

Patrick Parr (45:04.287)
before anything, before the other player can even get a plan. She had that going. So I felt women's tennis right now is probably at a better pace. I still feel like we talked about the last last podcast though that I do think they should explore longer matches, but that's just a hot take that's old. But, don't let's not do it. Let's not do that. But I think in the...

Alvin Owusu (45:23.912)
I'm not ready to go back there right now. I'm not ready. Okay, okay

Patrick Parr (45:33.93)
Right now though, the men's side, I do want to talk a little bit about Felix. Because, yeah, I think, yeah, because I want to bring him up a bit because he came to Japan where I'm at right now. And I went to the Japan Open and I watched him practice. And I didn't just watch him practice. like, I watched, he was maybe three feet away, hitting forehand and the...

Alvin Owusu (45:40.188)
Yeah, let's talk about Felix.

Patrick Parr (46:03.136)
The way he was hitting that, it was just a total explosion compared to all the other players. I watched Tommy Paul, I watched Jerome, Arthur Fields, Perricard. I watched a bunch of these guys, but nobody could hit that. The way Felix hits a ball. And then I finally, I always thought, wow, you know, is he just incredible in practice? Because in the match then he can't.

formulate a plan. But then I saw the plan. He was doing it here at the US Open. was the way he was dominating and and the way he would go into the court and take that ball now is unreal. So I have hope, just a little bit of hope that Felix might, might find himself in a position where he might cause an upset. One grand slam. He might, he might just

Alvin Owusu (46:45.256)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick Parr (47:02.87)
cause a fissure in this crack of an empire, but I don't know. Felix really showed something I felt. I don't know if you guys have already talked about him quite a bit,

Alvin Owusu (47:14.504)
We talked about him, I mean, I think this is probably a better place to go in depth about the Felix Oje, Ali Asim experience, right? So very similar to you, I've seen Felix up close, I remember, this was 2019 Miami Open, and I mean, you go all the way back to 2019, like, Rublev qualified into that tournament. So that's like...

Patrick Parr (47:22.998)
Yeah, yeah, I should have said the whole name,

Alvin Owusu (47:41.961)
things change, like 2019 was six years ago, but when you put it into context, it was that long ago. I think Felix also qualified into that tournament. But I went in hopes to see him. I went first round and I knew he was in qualies. I think I had seen him maybe on TV earlier that year. I like, wanna see this kid. And I was talking to a buddy, Kale, Kale Hammond. Kale, if you're listening, shout out to Kale. It's a, and even, yeah, it was like,

Patrick Parr (47:48.118)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (48:11.208)
the sound that ball makes, it's like thunderous. Like thunderous. keep in mind, this is very, very pre-center, very pre-alcares. These guys are basically in diapers at this point, 17, 15, 17 years old. So he was like the first version of them in that this is a guy that can hit the ball really big.

Patrick Parr (48:15.741)
Mmm. Mmm.

Patrick Parr (48:23.574)
Yep.

True, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (48:41.136)
He moves extremely well. He seems to have this, I would say court presence, a willingness to come forward. And you what we've seen from Felix in the last few years is just kind of, I would say he's stuck between game styles. He doesn't really seem to know when to be the player we saw this past week and when to be a different version of that player. Like one that is.

Patrick Parr (48:50.432)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (49:04.33)
That's it. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (49:09.648)
a little more erratic or a little less sure about what he wants to do on the tennis court. I think, but that is the polarizing part about Felix, right? When you watch him play, you go, there's nothing wrong with this. This is very exciting, big serve, good size guy, big great mover. mean, Currier called it out like the one thing that he definitely needs to work on is his backhand, just not having enough pop on it. He's a little too wristy, which leaves him kind of,

Patrick Parr (49:19.795)
It is.

Patrick Parr (49:24.662)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (49:39.886)
a little bit dead rights on that corner, but that's a minor, that is fixable. That is fixable. But besides that, that doesn't say that's a person that shouldn't be making quarterfinals of Grand Slam consistently.

Patrick Parr (49:43.05)
True, true.

Patrick Parr (49:47.872)
Yeah. I keep thinking. Yeah.

Patrick Parr (49:56.906)
That's right. I agree with that. I hope that that will occur at least in 2026. Felix, two quarterfinals on fast services, probably hard. Maybe the Australian and the US. Because he does start off the season pretty strong, almost always. But I keep thinking back to the US, just what happened with him against Sinner. And that's such a good matchup for him because it's it's two guys just, I'm going to blast you off the court. No, I'm going to blast you off the court.

And the way those two just collide with each other, but then that backhand cross court, that center hit in the third set, that stops Felix. He's almost laughing, right? He says, was that supposed to be that good? Because when I replayed that point several times, to me, I thought that point makes it a five set match right there. I mean, if it goes the other way.

Alvin Owusu (50:33.768)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (50:55.146)
But at the same time, thought, feel like, yeah, that point happened, but keep it going, man. Keep it going. mean, that's just like, he was right there with center. felt that entire, that entire match. But, yeah, I, this, but this is, this is the problem with the men's game. were comparing it to women, right? to the women's game is I, I'm kind of pushing him into a place that

Probably he hasn't earned yet. because center and alcraze are so high at this point, they're just in the clouds, whereas everybody, they're just on the ground looking up. So I don't know.

Alvin Owusu (51:37.026)
I think maybe the issue there is, not necessarily issue, but the big difference is, I mean Felix is 25, right? So he is in the same cohort as center, not necessarily Carlos, when they were in juniors and at what tournaments they would have been at together. Felix knows Yannick pretty well. And he has seen, they've been on the tour at the same time and he's seen him kind of take off.

Patrick Parr (51:46.433)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (52:01.164)
True.

Alvin Owusu (52:06.243)
And so I feel like going into that match, Felix, I don't, I didn't get the feeling that Felix necessarily thought he was going to win that match. He thought he, it seemed like he, I mean, he got, he got tuned up by him like a couple of weeks ago. So like, I don't think he had a reason to feel like he was going to that match. But once they got into that first set, it was, it was pretty lopsided on the scoreboard, but it was pretty close in tennis. And I think Felix started to go, wait a minute, I'm right here.

Patrick Parr (52:21.227)
Right.

Patrick Parr (52:30.668)
true.

Alvin Owusu (52:35.089)
Like I'm right here. Now that I'm in this, I'm playing well enough today, this and these last two weeks, I can hang. Like we can do this. And then the match became very competitive. But I think at that point you're reacting and you're trying to, you're selling yourself belief during the match. I think you're a little late where someone like a, let's use Holgeruna.

Patrick Parr (52:35.254)
yeah, that's it.

Patrick Parr (52:44.054)
Hmm. You're right.

Patrick Parr (52:58.206)
you

Patrick Parr (53:04.876)
Alvin Owusu (53:05.327)
maybe an Arthur Fees, Arthur Fees, right? These guys, I'm not gonna say really, let's say Fees. Fees goes into that matchup and he's like, he's so much younger than Yannick. He's like, I don't care, like whatever. Like I have no reason to believe I can't beat you because I feel like I'm one of the best players in the world. And I think just having a little bit of distance is what is going to allow for a third player to inevitably like enter the conversation, which like we can't go on forever like this.

Patrick Parr (53:08.182)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (53:16.832)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (53:32.396)
That

Yeah, yeah, Bill Simmons calls it, we need an irrational confidence guy. He always talks about like that guy who comes in and just like Marcus Smart or somebody who's like, I'm going to take over this game and he has no business, you know, but I think we right now in order for Sinner and Alcares to really get a new rival, we need some guy like Arthur Fees. That's a really good guy to bring up at this point. Just

Alvin Owusu (53:43.108)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (53:50.704)
Right.

Patrick Parr (54:03.466)
He's gonna go in there and he's gonna be like, I got nothing to lose and I know that I can even win this crowd over you. So I'm gonna go for it. And yeah.

Alvin Owusu (54:11.527)
Right. It's an interesting place because like I was looking back at, okay, we've gone two years, eight Grand Slams, and they split them evenly, right? But let's even just take that back. Two guys have won all of the last eight Grand Slams, right? This also happened 2006, 2007. Fedder and Nadal, right? Fed won.

three of four and then three of four and it all won the French Open in those two years, right? But in that, 2008, Fed wins one, Nadal wins French, Novak wins two, right? So there, even in the, even that duopoly was broken up after two years, right? I don't think we're sitting in the, it would be wild if we were sitting in the same place at this time next year.

Patrick Parr (54:55.894)
true.

Alvin Owusu (55:04.645)
and we're talking about the same two guys have split the last 12 Grand Slams. don't... Tennis doesn't need that. I don't think we need that. We don't want that. That's not what we want. But if it were to happen...

Patrick Parr (55:13.63)
No,

Alvin Owusu (55:21.307)
Who do you think would be the one to break it up?

Patrick Parr (55:22.986)
Mmm. Mmm.

God I've been thinking about this a while I Don't I for a while I thought Runa would come in and do it, but he's he just hasn't shown me much at all medvedev is Like it or not gonna become a broadcaster soon and sorry, I mean I think yeah

Alvin Owusu (55:42.065)
Yeah. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (55:48.039)
That's fair. That's fair. I mean, seek for me heart.

Patrick Parr (55:53.644)
You know, this is not a, this is a wild idea, if Dimitrov, if the way he played center at Wimbledon and just conquered him until, until that, until that peck tour, I had never seen that slice on, on a Wimbledon, at a Wimbledon tournament. Like that, the way that slice cut through the, and just really skidded off that grass.

to such a point where if he can get back, but he's in his mid thirties at this point, we can't really call him a rival at this point. He's just somebody who might come in and say, hey, I'm still here and have one good tournament. But I would love for it to see him make a great comeback at Wimbledon. But God, Alvin, I don't see anybody who really stands out at this point. I guess Shelton, right? I guess it's Ben.

Alvin Owusu (56:51.929)
it, I, okay, maybe a better way to look at it is under what circumstance would someone else be able to meet one of them in the final? I think that's the, that's actually the question. So.

Patrick Parr (57:06.966)
That's measured. That's much more measured. Yeah, absolutely.

Alvin Owusu (57:09.771)
Yeah, I mean like for someone to win the Grand Slam, there can't be three people in the final. Like one of them has to not be there, right? One or both.

Patrick Parr (57:16.19)
no and as long as right and as long as we have jokovic still doing his semi runs i mean there you are outside those three you you might have to play all three to win right i mean that that just might happen so

Alvin Owusu (57:30.287)
Right. That's the problem. I think the math kind of goes, it's probably, if it's next year, I think Novak has the best chance. But how is he going to get it done? He's going to have to get it done without having to play one of them. That's what it's going to have come down to. But then he's going play the other one in the final. And that just doesn't.

Patrick Parr (57:54.474)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (57:56.552)
that's not gonna really work out for him. So I think the best case scenario is like neither of them get to the final. Something strange is gonna have to happen where neither of them get to the final and then it's probably Novak. But he's not gonna be able to go through either of them at this point and he's four in the world right now so let's assume that holds up. He'll be the four seed.

Patrick Parr (58:06.902)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (58:11.02)
true.

Patrick Parr (58:16.032)
Then it is, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (58:25.393)
like he's not gonna meet them until the semis anyways. It's a, like I said, can't continue to this forever. Someone else is gonna pop in there.

Patrick Parr (58:28.181)
Right.

Patrick Parr (58:34.388)
No. This is it. This is it. Torrey always didn't Torrey always say that on his on previous that he thinks Novak's gonna he had thought that Novak would retire if he did at the Australian Open. Right. I think he said something like that, but I don't want to put. So. Right. Yeah. And I.

Alvin Owusu (58:39.719)
I think that's how it has to happen.

Alvin Owusu (58:54.457)
He, yeah, he did. I think I said that he was gonna retire at the end of Wimbledon like this year, but I was pretty far off on that one.

Patrick Parr (59:01.836)
I was with you. I thought so too. So we're both in the wrong. But I think Djokovic's best chance to get that last Grand Slam is in Australia. mean, there is a lot of dynamic to the crowd that he has to deal with that actually works for him because he's always better when he has this mixed, strange brew going with the crowd. He's always had his best when it's...

Alvin Owusu (59:04.165)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (59:29.642)
Are they for him or are they against him? And he tends to bring that out. but yeah, something does have to change fundamentally in the men's tour in order for us to get any sort of breakup in this case next year. And I look at the top 10 and I just don't see it unless Ben can come through with some sort of a different approach to...

Alvin Owusu (59:32.048)
Right.

Patrick Parr (59:58.698)
best of five because I think people get used to his serve. think when I watch him play longer matches, he's still got that pop and he's still getting his easy points. But I do think there might be a pattern that I feel that some of the players do see that is hindering Shelton from getting to the top.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:24.87)
Yeah, my only, I wanna say push back on that is like, Ben is, and I have to, I've come around on how I view Ben Shelton because he is so young. He's 22 and he's currently ranked sixth in the world, right? And outside of his, yeah, let's not, but let's not, but like from a standpoint of like progression, he is also six years away from his peak and he is third year on tour and he's a top.

Patrick Parr (01:00:33.269)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (01:00:37.846)
He's 22. Well, we won't compare that to Alcara's, right? So yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:54.598)
10 player and you know, U S open retirement withstanding, he's been consistently losing to Yannick or Carlos in grand slams for the last four or five grand slam. like his body of work to this point and level of progression to this point would make you think, okay, he's going to get incrementally better each year. So yeah, why not? Why is he not the best person?

Why is he not best positioned? He's got some work to do, but so does everyone else. But I'd rather have work to do and be sixth in the world as opposed to work to do and be 70 in the world, right? There's a, he's, the Ben Sheldon argument is, it's a real one. I think it's a real one.

Patrick Parr (01:01:24.972)
true.

Patrick Parr (01:01:30.688)
That's it.

Patrick Parr (01:01:36.086)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:01:41.472)
Yeah, okay, yeah. I do think Shelton can break through pretty soon as long as he recovers fully the shoulder, right? Is it the left or the, yeah, so, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:01:51.909)
Yeah, shoulder. Yeah, his left shoulder, yeah. That's a big one. Let me ask you this before we get out of here, because I feel like we could stay here all day. You had mentioned that you might have, you have the idea of walk-up songs.

Patrick Parr (01:01:56.266)
Yeah, so, sure.

Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:02:12.41)
no. you brought that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:02:17.566)
I didn't respond to it because I was like, no, this is gonna be good. This is gonna be good. So give me, if you were going to present walk-up songs for four players, your pick. Like WWE entrance style, or baseball walk-up.

Patrick Parr (01:02:27.968)
Okay.

I... See... See... I don't know. I feel like the songs that I choose are gonna totally label me as somebody who likes that type of music only. So I'm a little worried about me saying these, but I'll go for it. like with Medvedev, I love... I've watched many... I've watched more matches of Medvedev, I'd say, in the last...

Alvin Owusu (01:02:50.16)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (01:02:59.04)
Few years then almost anybody I say with the exception of Djokovic Alcraz and center maybe but maybe I've watched more I just love watching medvedev play I love the way he figures things out But I do think what would annoy his because his job is to annoy his opponent at this point in order to get an advantage I feel if he came out with this I Think is I'm the only one who finds this funny, you know, REO speed wagon

roll with the changes and there's this the the cheesiness of that song just the utter like my god is that really playing right now and as he comes out and I feel that that might that would be my walkout song for many it's just something that's late 70s early 80s real high-pitched and brings the crowd just feels okay

Here comes this guy, he's gonna cause some chaos a bit, but it's all gonna be fun and games. Sure.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:01.072)
I will, let me submit to you then I'll kick that one back to you and Medvedev coming out to what does the fox say? Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow. Like that's very high pitched and also annoying, which would also be very, very Medvedev.

Patrick Parr (01:04:13.036)
yeah. You know that I think that works much better now for how medvedev has to play in order to win I guess maybe roll with the changes would have been better like a couple years ago when he was still like Still getting the finals and stuff. That is a good one. Yes. I love that one. Yeah

Alvin Owusu (01:04:21.392)
You

Alvin Owusu (01:04:36.368)
Let's do it, let's do it, let's do another one. I like this, this is good.

Patrick Parr (01:04:38.1)
Alright, alright, alright, well I think right now Sinner has earned this song. It's a little too predictable, but we gotta go Hell's Bells, I feel. You know that song, like a little bit of, a little ACDC with Sinner. Hell's, no, we're not going there? But, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:04:48.003)
Mmmmm

Alvin Owusu (01:04:56.23)
No, I think that's a fine choice. I'm thinking in that same vein, maybe into the Sandman.

Patrick Parr (01:05:00.94)
Mmm.

Patrick Parr (01:05:05.356)
Mmm.

Patrick Parr (01:05:09.482)
Yeah, yeah, I thought under Sam and to I thought I thought that too, Yeah, I feel the bells at the beginning of the AC DC song it's just That that that hits a little more but you know because I I have in the past I've told you like maybe when we're off off recording that I do feel sinner is like the incarnation of AI right? He is somebody that

Alvin Owusu (01:05:19.782)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you.

Alvin Owusu (01:05:34.566)
It's a popular take. It's a very popular take.

Patrick Parr (01:05:37.246)
Right. So in that way, but Hell's Bells does fits him, I think, right now. But I don't, yeah. Okay. I don't know if we can, I'm not ready to do Alcares yet, unless you are, but if you have something for Alcares, I don't yet. He's a bit, he's one thing or another. So, I mean, I guess it could be maybe, all right. I got one. All right.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:01.4)
I can, let's, go ahead. No, go ahead.

Patrick Parr (01:06:06.668)
I just it just popped into my head so I think Bohemian Rhapsody might be a pretty good one for him but yeah yes yes yes yes yeah

Alvin Owusu (01:06:16.07)
that's good. Specifically the beginning.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:25.238)
Is this is this real life or is this just fantasy like god, that's good

Patrick Parr (01:06:28.204)
Yeah. Yeah. Bohemian Rhapsody for Alcares. comes out and everyone's just like, yes, oh my god, know, and like, and he, you know, there he is. He's just blowing kisses or something. Just like, you could just see Alcares playing to that song really well.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:45.974)
was gonna go for Alcaraz. I'm gonna stick in this classic rock vein, which is not my go-to, but we're here, I'm gonna do it. Pinball Wizard.

Patrick Parr (01:06:53.376)
Did I actually?

yes. Yes. by Tom. Right. By the who? Tommy on the Tommy album. Yeah. I think playing that. All right. Yeah. Pinball Wizard works more for like those 500 level tournaments, I feel like when you know he's coming in and he's like, I'm just I'm just going to make the crowd go wild with a few points. And then Pinball Wizard works just right in that regard.

Alvin Owusu (01:06:59.43)
Yeah? Yeah, by the who? Yeah?

Alvin Owusu (01:07:13.638)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:20.678)
Or the Pokemon theme song, Gotta Catch All.

Patrick Parr (01:07:25.292)
Oh my... Yeah... Yeah, that... See how flexible Alcares is? My god, he's got so many... Yeah... Yeah, I think with... I don't know, I'm not gonna touch Djokovic at this point, but... The younger crowd, feel like this game is more appropriate for, but... But... Anyway... Yeah...

Alvin Owusu (01:07:29.178)
Hahaha.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:33.54)
Yeah, this is a fun game.

Alvin Owusu (01:07:52.454)
I'll end with this one. Ben Shelton, real American hero.

Patrick Parr (01:07:54.892)
Alright.

okay. I got. yes, yes, yes. Yeah. That's I was going to do like something Springsteen like born to run or something like that. Yeah. But I think that that feels very Shelton ask. But yeah, you got it. You got Shelton. You got it.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:08.815)
Yeah

Alvin Owusu (01:08:19.334)
And I even thought of like for another one for Alcaraz would be like, Michael Jackson's off the wall.

Patrick Parr (01:08:26.592)
I, does he get Jackson, does he get MJ yet? Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:29.486)
But like going into the, no, but it's like, it's just like the idea of like, in very US Open style, like he's walking in, it's a night match. Everyone leave your nine to five up on the shelf and just come enjoy yourself.

Patrick Parr (01:08:35.659)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:08:44.332)
That's it. That's it. Yeah. In that moment, absolutely. Yeah. I like that. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (01:08:45.616)
You're at the show.

In that moment, in that moment. But let's put a pin in it there. I like when we have these conversations. You know what? That's why we do this with no agenda. We just let it roll. But yeah, we'll put a pin in it there. I'm Alvin, that's Pat. We'll leave some of these gems for you in the comments. But yeah, like I'm supposed to ask you guys to do if you enjoy these type of free flowing conversations.

Patrick Parr (01:08:54.456)
Alright. I didn't expect you to bring that up. Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:09:06.412)
You

Alvin Owusu (01:09:19.556)
Like, subscribe, whatever it is that you do to know that we're putting this stuff up on the regular. But yeah, with that, Pat, thank you and best of three, we are out.

Patrick Parr (01:09:27.776)
Thank you.