Jack Draper’s Ceiling, Francis Tiafoe’s Window, and the Reality of a Serena Return

Alvin Owusu (00:00.43)
And welcome to another episode of the best three podcast. I'm Alvin, that's Tory. And on today's episode, we're kicking a little loose. We're to talk a little bit about one Jack Draper, talk a little bit about Francis as he's playing in the finals of Waka Poko tonight. And then we might venture into this Serena Williams speculative return, yada, yada, yada, yada. But before we get into that, one, make sure you like and subscribe. That's really important. Do that. Two, TH, how are you doing?

Torrey Hawkins (00:30.579)
I'm good, Alvin, good, I'm good. I'm traveling this weekend, I'm with the Mrs. and it's good, it's good to get out and it's good to see some other parts of the country. So it's kind of neat.

Alvin Owusu (00:42.422)
Okay, I know you're in the Memphis, Tennessee area. Shouts to the Wamadou family, shouts to White Haven Tennis Center, shouts to many a weekend spent in Memphis in both of our collective days.

Torrey Hawkins (00:49.989)
yes, it is. That's right. That's right.

100%. 100%. It was a whole, man, some great times, you know what mean? And as you say, Tony and the whole Wama Du family and, know, Kechi may rest in peace and some other, you know, some great memories here, you know what I mean? And the, as well as many, Kroger St. Jude, you know what I'm saying? And in fact, there's our good buddy, Peter's Lebedev's old spot here.

Alvin Owusu (01:15.042)
There you go, heya!

Alvin Owusu (01:21.912)
Absolutely.

Torrey Hawkins (01:22.643)
So bottom line, it's a nice part of the country and again, it's always good to get out of your backyard every once in a while.

Alvin Owusu (01:31.564)
Absolutely, absolutely. So I hit you up a couple of the early, was it today? Was it yesterday? And it's like, hey, I want to talk about Jack Draper. Because Jack made his, he's making his comeback. He was out for the better part of last year after Wimbledon. Sorry, sorry. After he played French Open, he played Wimbledon, got hurt, came back, played US Open. But now Jack, and then took the rest of the season off, but.

After a few failed returns, Jack is back, pseudo healthy, playing in Dubai this week. He did lose to Arthur Vrindakradesh in the round of 16, but that's not really the point. The point is Jack Draper is one of those guys that when you start to look at the cohorts that we talked about towards the back end of last year, Jack Draper is in that cohort with...

He's age 24, so he's there with Yannick and Carlos and Ben and Musetti. And so while he's been, you know, last year, a lot of that oxygen from French Open forward was taken up by Yannick and Carlos duly deserved. Jack was in a more of a rehabilitation state, but let us not forget he did, he did win a Masters 1000 last year. He did final another one. So I feel like now that he's back, it's good to take a look at Jack as the tennis player and kind of where he fits in.

to this story that is the kind of narrative arc of the top end of men's tennis right now.

Torrey Hawkins (02:59.666)
Well, think it's important. It's his first tournament back, right? I think that's number one. Need to point that out. Number two...

Jack looks fit, he looks like he's moving better, looks like he's, if anything, the movement was his highlight to me more so than anything else. Hard to say exactly what I saw other than it was good to see him back confident winning a match and quite frankly being back healthy. We saw Feast do it a few weeks ago and Doha and so it's been really good to see these guys get back healthy again, they bring so much to the game. On the tennis side of things, didn't see as much as I'd like to see,

Alvin Owusu (03:25.198)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (03:37.891)
sure what Jack's best surface is. Render Connection played very well obviously and got the better of the two but he's been playing right you can always tell the guy that's been playing you're talking about

you know the timing differences nanoseconds and the confidence you may take from winning a match or two or having played and then you hit stride it doesn't always favor the guys that are coming back from an injury right so well I'm glad that he I'm glad that he's there and back clearly he's gonna take some matches to get his swag back and kind of get his stride but I was happy to see it what I'd like to see from Jack coming up as he's defending Indian Wells here pretty soon and

And whatever his rings are clearly he may not be in top form by then that's a few weeks away, right? So was it next week or whatever it is? So clearly he may not be back in top form by then but so, you know this supports will come off There's Alvin there's a group of people between I don't know 20 Shoot man 12 really 12 and about 30 that

Alvin Owusu (04:26.669)
That's next week. Yeah, next week.

Torrey Hawkins (04:45.137)
will eat your lunch if you give them, if you come out half-stepping. You know what I mean? And I think we need to acknowledge that and Render Canais being Arthur being one of them, I think Fee saw that a little bit as well a few weeks ago. I he played some phenomenal ball, just to have a decent finish in Doha. You know what I mean? And so I think what the point I wanna make sure that our listening and viewing followers and what have you.

I'm gonna say fellow travelers on this journey with us. You, we're being blessed to see a lot of really high level tennis. We can't sleep on that 30 and in or even really 30 and out level of tennis. It doesn't have that name to it. And I know the announcers and commentators, I'm always a little bit critical of are.

quick to point out, well, this guy hasn't done this, he hasn't done that. And we almost always speak to it from top down. Like everything should be, know, Carlos and Yanuk are the litmus test and going down. In reality, it should be viewed from a thousand up and help you appreciate how lofty the tennises are playing. So with all that said,

Alvin Owusu (05:52.012)
Yeah, that's a point.

Torrey Hawkins (05:56.787)
Render Connection played some great tennis. It was good to see Jack playing well. He dispatched Howells pretty, pretty, pretty handily in that match. And I just feel like, you know, this, these to come back in the pickup form like that is pretty difficult, you know, and to do it in that fashion, as said, these did it before a week or two ago. And obviously I know we're going to talk about Francis in a little bit. All of them are coming back and trying to get back, get on stride and it takes you, and I know from years out there coaching players, it takes you about six to eight weeks

worth of matches just to get your match toughness back. So I was quite frankly happy to see him back, happy to him get a couple of wins. And even the loss, the loss he had during the connection wasn't, he just got a little bit outplayed. He just edged him out. He was playing a little sharper, coming forward a little better, stuck some incredible volleys on my head. And I felt like Jack did everything right that you'd expect for a player coming back, looked competitive, looked healthy, didn't see any grimaces, didn't see any things that you thought

I should have taken more time off you saw him look You saw him look fit enough to continue to compete trust me He's only gonna get more confidence and get more and more I see it's more more reps I'm not worried about Jack Draper at all Do I think he will be a threat to win any well this year? No, I do not do I? Threat to win Miami absolutely not not he did he had had the time Do I think he'll be a threat come come around start knocking people off French open or whatnot? Sure Do I think he will kind of really start playing better as a swing?

Alvin Owusu (07:13.741)
Sure, sure sure sure.

Torrey Hawkins (07:26.631)
back to what the US Open? 100 % because by that time he's got that time to kind of really get into the meat of the season of the hard court season over here and really start to play some ball.

Alvin Owusu (07:36.108)
Yeah, let's kind of break that down into two different parts here. One, we'll get to Jack Draper kind of best case scenario high end, right? But let's look at Jack Draper. And I think Arter Feast is a really, really good comp because Arter is about, Arter's about a month ahead of Jack right now when we talk about recovery, you know, not necessarily recovery, but like, okay, I'm back on tour. I'm playing tournaments now. And we saw playing, yeah, actually out there playing. So like we saw Arter most recently in

Torrey Hawkins (07:52.819)
it.

Torrey Hawkins (07:58.707)
What?

Alvin Owusu (08:04.705)
Doha, right, final against Carlos Alcaraz. But that was his third event back and that match was his ninth match, right? So he also had, you know, he got some, he got some reps against, I it's Felix and Montpellier. He got some reps against Di Menor and Rotterdam, right? You get to play against two top 10 players on your way back. Now you're, you're kind of knocking the haze off here, right? So then you see when he, when he, when he comes into Doha right after that, he starts to get into form.

Torrey Hawkins (08:08.979)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (08:21.523)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (08:32.651)
Right, he also plays Quentin Howlis in the second round, takes him out. I think the matches against, the back to back matches against La Hechka and then Mientic are the two kind of like, okay, he's looking good. Beat them both in straight sets. And then, know, Carlos is a whole different, that's a whole different test. He's not beating Carlos probably on his best day anyway, so I can even throw that one out. But I will say, you you go.

Torrey Hawkins (08:35.155)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (08:45.363)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (08:54.099)
All right,

Alvin Owusu (08:58.581)
you go four straight weeks, and I guess that's probably three weeks in a row there of competitive tennis, we're getting to that 10 match threshold. Now we're halfway through your six to eight weeks, and it's probably more like less the weeks and more the match total, right? You probably need about 15 matches under your belt to, about that.

Torrey Hawkins (09:07.229)
right.

Torrey Hawkins (09:10.748)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (09:14.813)
See you guys.

Torrey Hawkins (09:19.187)
I think so. I would say 20 and you're golden. to your point, you know, and again, and there's ups and downs in that 20, right? The point is give yourself...

Alvin Owusu (09:30.637)
And how long does it take you to get those 20 matches too? That's the kicker.

Torrey Hawkins (09:32.915)
That's what I'm saying because it could take you three tournaments, could take you, know, could take you three, right? It could take you 20 tournaments, right? And so, and that's the only problem with the tour is, you know, it's not kind to the injured.

Alvin Owusu (09:39.405)
20 tournaments.

Torrey Hawkins (09:49.693)
pack continues to move on, you tennis does not wait for you. You know what I mean? And so even with things like protected rankings and such, it's still not going to cryogenically, you know, Han Solo frees you in that spot. And then you come back and everything's gravy when you come back. It is, you've got some tough sledding to go when you come back. And so it really is kind of a double injury in a sense, because you physically are hurt, but then your ranking now takes all the hits, you know, that could come back from it. So while they help you get back into some of those

Alvin Owusu (10:01.74)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (10:19.667)
tournaments, nothing can take away where you were and the tennis you were playing at that time. a quick shout out to Hogaruna, who's going through the same thing right now, perhaps a longer sabbatical right now with his injury. who was playing at a really high level and was just starting to claw inside that, further inside that top 10. And so to him, even more so, where he's going to be. Was Jack five, I think, when he went out? Four, right.

Alvin Owusu (10:46.189)
Jack got up to four, he was like four and five somewhere in there, I'm not sure where he was when he stepped away from tour, but pretty close.

Torrey Hawkins (10:50.515)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. And think Holger was, and Holger was closer, right? Like, like, six.

Alvin Owusu (10:56.333)
Holger was 10, 11, 12, somewhere around there.

Torrey Hawkins (10:59.299)
There you go. I thought he was a little high. But my point being, it's a very lofty perch to descend from with that injury. And while on paper he's still that seed and that high, he is clearly not at the form that he was at that time. You know what mean? So again, good to see him back, man, because that's just one more good player to watch and one more upset brewing slash one more player to upset and contend with the rest of the top 10.

Alvin Owusu (11:29.005)
Right, exactly. So let's, I mean, maybe with that in mind, like we mentioned, Jack got up to four or five and like last year, Jack had kind of his breakout year and I'll even go back a little bit to like 2024, obviously, semifinal of the US Open and then rolled that into 2025, like round of 16, I'll show you an open, that's great. But then he finaled Doha, caught a burner, won Indian Wells, beat Carlos along the way. Also final in Madrid.

in that fantastic match that he lost against Casper Rude, but started to really like, I mean, one to 1000 on hard, final to 1000, Madrid, whatever, but final to 1000 on clay. And now you're like, okay, comes into, know, plays Rome quarter finals and then round of 16 at Roland Garros itself. So we've got now between US Open of 24 and Roland Garros of 25, Jack put together a really solid body of work before his

Torrey Hawkins (12:04.498)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (12:25.77)
body kind of broke down on him. So I think we've seen kind of like that top end of what Jack Draper could be. And he has a, you know, I guess let's go back to 2024, right? He's two and two against Carlos since 24. 0-1 against Senators since 24. I think it's quite important to notice that he's also two and 0 against Musetti and one and 0 against Ben. So like these are players in his cohort. Jack has shown to be maybe he's not quite there with

Torrey Hawkins (12:27.719)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (12:40.775)
Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (12:46.801)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (12:55.062)
Carlos and Yannick yet, Yannick maybe a little bit to be seen, but he's proven it against the rest of them. We saw what he could do at his high end, but I personally, when I watch him as a lefty and a big guy, he doesn't play lefty or big guy tennis. So it's, I have a tough time figuring out what to do with Jack Draper as I interpret him as a tennis player.

Torrey Hawkins (12:59.09)
Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (13:09.693)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (13:13.586)
No.

Torrey Hawkins (13:22.117)
Jack, and he's one of those classic lefty who plays lefty but he's right handed types, you know what mean? You're never gonna see, like at all, you're never gonna see big serves from a guy who's probably a natural right hander with his left hand side. He's always gonna have a backhand preference, right? And the backhand's gonna be his weapon. The...

The only thing I'll say is this Alvin, again I think all of you, while I hate some of our commentators for being overly critical, I try not to be overly critical myself. You can be underwhelmed with Jack if you're looking for that. At the same time, I find what, there's two things I want to speak to on Jack Draper. Number one.

he's doing a lot of this without said weapons. All those records you talk about, 2-0 this, 1-1 this and that, without said weapons. So imagine if those two or three things were to be achieved, put in the bag so to speak, he hyperspaces and takes off warp speed and he's all of sudden, he's that much stronger a player. Number two,

He's not finished. He's 23, 24 years old. So the young man is still young and has a lot of time, but yet you have to still get out there and get after it. So especially with that, mean, his sir could always get a little bit bigger. You know what mean? His returns are always really good. He's got a great back and he can change direction whenever he wants. Pretty good field.

Alvin Owusu (14:31.66)
24. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (14:48.859)
I would say very underrated hands around the net like most Brits he loves coming forward and he has good hands coming with the volleys. If his serve could get him one more freebie a game and while that's significant one more freebie a game helps him hold he's got good returns and I think when he was beating those players like that he has that ability. I know you mentioned Ben in that comparison as far as the comps versus those other top 10 players. Ben has started to do some of those same things which is why Ben's moving up I feel.

moving up the rungs and the ladder so to speak because he is holding serve easier more often. Very few break chances being that he's defending against because of that very same thing. Locking in on that first serve, it's a big deal. And I feel like that's an area of growth for him if he were to to move forward. But I also want to say I feel Jack's biggest, I'm going say his biggest attribute is one of the sayings I hear all the time and it's not always true with most

people but it's true in his case you can't you can measure the size of the dog in the fire but you can't measure the size of fighting the dog and I think Jack Draper is one of those players he has in he there is no quit in that in that young man he's got all kind of grit and it's shown by his even his his trek to get where he's at you know so I really feel like we're gonna see some things from him strictly out of determination and and and and just want and desire alone and should he come

that with 10 more miles per hour on a serve and a few more spots he can hit on the serve targets, Jack Draper will return back to top 10 status with interest and potentially top five again. The only thing holding him back is other players who are doing the same thing that may elbow him out in the process. That's the only thing that's going to stand in his way is other players with similar grit who have maybe just a bit more.

Alvin Owusu (16:37.75)
Sure,

Torrey Hawkins (16:48.509)
of a weapon here there that can edge them out on given surfaces.

Alvin Owusu (16:52.384)
Gotcha, yeah, and it's, you know, I think the Ben Shelton comp is, I think that's, it's not necessarily comp, but like when you look at them through similar lenses, because they're both, you know, bigger, stronger guys, right about the same age, both left-handed, obviously. I think what you've seen in their game styles, they, there's a lot on paper that looks similar, but when you, the way they manage themselves in the tennis court is very, very different, right? I think Jack having a

backhand that is so solid almost him being left-handed is his advantage because the backhand is so solid like he doesn't really create advantages from being left-handed he kind of he kind of Erases his deficiencies because he is left-handed if Jack Vapor were right-handed It's a whole different story, but if he's playing against a right-handed player that deuce court that just court

Torrey Hawkins (17:34.395)
Right. Right.

Alvin Owusu (17:50.93)
a diagonal rally, he can stay there all day and he can also go line. And then when he goes line to the ad court and you're bringing a backhand back, cross court, now he likes to get on that back foot and sit in a little bit open. He he he's got time and he's got space over there in that do side now to then kind of work. So I think it's it's one of those like little nuances where Ben is had to over the last three years or so. And he's done a really good job of it built up the backhand so that he can at least

Torrey Hawkins (17:54.269)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (18:16.413)
Bye. Bye.

Alvin Owusu (18:20.565)
get to neutral in those deuce court rallies where he does a really, really good job of playing a little more strongly on the ad court side. But then also the bigger serve.

Torrey Hawkins (18:22.759)
Go.

Torrey Hawkins (18:28.708)
and and

just little bit and what Jack's gonna have to do as much as Ben is short up his backhand side and make smart decisions with a slice.

Alvin Owusu (18:33.291)
Just a little bit.

Torrey Hawkins (18:43.067)
Jack now has to do off the serve and first strike. He simply has to get more freebies. has to get, he has to hold serve easier with a little more help from that serve and with a lot more, I'm gonna use the term. But people misunderstand the big serve. It isn't so much the MPH, while that's significant. If you hit a guy's strike zones, these guys can all return very, very well. It's how much trouble they have with your serve. How much can you change it up? How different is it?

you know, do you have a 50 mile an hour rain between first and second that you can throw in there that doesn't get teed off on, right? Which is a lot of MPH to handle. Does your sliced tea for the lefty carve away, you know what mean, on the deuce, which makes it extremely difficult, and does your flat out why go to the flowers and the sponsorship? At that point, everybody wants to start off the point love team.

Alvin Owusu (19:38.035)
Right, right, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (19:42.923)
returner and if you know you're not even sniffing the return when it goes to that side you already doubt you know and so those are little things there I think Ben's done a good job of bringing the hammer and serving well I think if Jack could get that serve accuracy down get that flat out wide really really penetrate that out wide the left service box sideline not the baseline and just really get you out wide get you a foot or two past the alley and be able to carve you up to the tee same thing on that on the outside

which he's shown in the past. He's got to be able to, in my opinion, Ben has, he's got to make his serve in plus one really step up a notch or two so that he is taken very, very seriously in matches. then breakers, three sets, obviously five set matches, don't have the same wear and tear. The one thing I noticed from from a couple of matches is how fast he is for a big guy. The unfortunate side was he was on the run a lot. The good side is

Alvin Owusu (20:41.61)
Alright.

Torrey Hawkins (20:42.777)
He was he's fast enough to handle it, you know, but again, do you really want your six foot four big server running that much? You know Gassing the legs not really playing a lot from strength in my opinion. You probably don't you know I mean there wasn't there was a time when Pete Sampras will let those balls go you because he He knew you know what? I'll give you that one because I've got a I've got a survey that might just bring him bring it back 30 All I'm not too worried about it mean there were times when Pat Pete would just he let you have that ball and it was

Alvin Owusu (20:59.903)
Yeah, right, right.

Torrey Hawkins (21:12.818)
It wasn't necessarily that the shop was that great, it was that pizza...

I'm gonna take a little, I don't mind letting that one go. Too many of those and I will lose my legs and my strength, which is really what I'm here for. And so I just think there's a lot of ways to play this game. There's a lot of different ways to make this work. And I just feel like if Jack were to take care of that part of it, he could very, he has the other parts down pat. It's just now to me, can he really establish the weapon or make the weapon he has that much bigger to be relevant for the top 10?

Alvin Owusu (21:28.427)
Sure. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (21:48.745)
for him to regain where he was before.

Alvin Owusu (21:51.637)
Yeah, and I think that's a really good way to put it. There are a lot of ways to win tennis matches, a lot of ways to play this game. And you look at, start talking about the serve differences between a Jack Draper and a Pete Sampras. Maybe not the best comparison because Pete's one of the best serves of all time. But Pete was 6'1", not as tall as you would think with one of the best serves of all time. And Jack is 6'4", and I think that's kind of the push-pull with Draper and has been for the last three years or so. He's a big dude who doesn't necessarily play that big.

Torrey Hawkins (22:04.915)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (22:21.429)
but we're not all cut to do the same thing, right? So.

Torrey Hawkins (22:25.107)
Or women the same way or construct points the same way. But again, what you don't do there, you have to make up for somewhere else. And that's what remains to be seen. know what I mean? Again, Jack Jape will be fine. He's heck of a competitor. I love his grit on the court. I'd love to see him do well as much as he puts into it. We'll see.

Alvin Owusu (22:35.743)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (22:48.3)
Yeah, well, let's before we change gears to Francis, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back and talk a little a little bit about him.

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CONTINUED (Take 02)
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Alvin Owusu (00:00.662)
And we're back. Okay, so Francis. Francis is playing in the finals of the Acapulco 500 right now. You mentioned, we've talked about Francis a good bit, right? And I think at the end of last year, probably right before, like probably in December, I think we were having this conversation about Francis after he went on Andy's pod talking about how he's renewed himself, renewed his commitment effectively to being a high level professional tennis player.

Torrey Hawkins (00:07.155)
Yep. Yep.

Torrey Hawkins (00:13.033)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (00:30.03)
And I got a little salty. I got a little salty, but I've since calmed down. It's been two months now. I'm back. I'm better. But you were, you've been watching Francis this week in Acapulco. I haven't been playing as much attention. What have you seen? You know, he's played probably 13 matches this year since the beginning of the year. What have you seen in the last, let's call it, you know, two months with Francis this week included that makes you feel, um, hopeful.

Hopeful. Young man is 28 years old. He ain't 35, right? So he does have time left. So with that being the case, what are we looking at right now?

Torrey Hawkins (01:05.009)
Right?

Torrey Hawkins (01:09.501)
It's a great question and I want to quantify, sorry, qualify the, he's not 28, you know, he ain't 35, he ain't 25, right? So you're exactly right. What I feel makes me hopeful for Francis is hopeful that he stays relevant throughout the year. What is relevant? Well, relevant to me is top 20 with a chance to be the top 10.

Alvin Owusu (01:20.087)
Right, all right.

Torrey Hawkins (01:36.457)
50 % of the time. That's what we call relevant for top because to me if you're not beating top 10 But 10 % of the time you might even call that a lucky win or a top player taking that week off We don't want to it out. We know they do it But whether they do it on purpose or or they feel the guys playing well enough to let them have it that they're not that's that's Above my pay grade. However, if you're doing it 50 % of the time you're threatening right

That includes center, Alcaraes, and so on and so on. So that includes the top four that you'll play, let's face it, numerically speaking, you might face them earlier than you'd like in certain tournaments. But 50 % to me makes you relevant. What makes me hopeful is that Tiafoe looks like his old self. The self that was scrappy.

Alvin Owusu (02:30.091)
Okay.

Torrey Hawkins (02:32.487)
good touch around the net, some clutch volleys. He makes the difficult seem easy. Unfortunately, sometimes he makes the easy look difficult. A long volley look like the match is hanging in the balance, you know what I mean? And all because he had one game with three second serves. His first serve isn't huge, we know that. We're just talking about Jack. I think Francis is leader of the, got, I

Alvin Owusu (02:38.349)
Hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (02:59.498)
all, you know, he comes, if he's in spades, he's got three good face cards in every suit. No joker, no.

Alvin Owusu (03:08.299)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (03:09.501)
He's got that all around hand. He ain't got nothing to kill you with but buddy He's gonna surprise you with a with a good card on your card He's gonna pull at least six cards from your you know from your hand just just because he knows how to play his hand That's what Francis brings to the table now And he might be sitting on a on a on a two or or just in case you know old-school space I say it to say That's what Francis looks like to me. He's back to moving while he's hitting his forehand clean like he always could

There were some times last year Alvin, the French Open in particular, Francis looked tired.

Whether he was physically spent or not, he looked worse. He looked like he was done. Looked like it was too much of an effort to get to where he was trying to get to. And this is first round, second round. What I have been enthused about is Francis looks like he's competing again. He looks like he's enjoying it again. He always is a competitor. We don't ever have to talk about that. That brother is one of the fiercest competitors we've seen.

on the melanin side of things, dare I say, right? Dare I say since Ash or, would even say, no disrespect to Malibuy and James, to all these brothers who have played before, Francis brought more grit than they did to just about every match. Didn't have the final.

Wimby and doesn't have a slam to his to his credit, but don't don't sleep Francis all day competitor He didn't look like it in my opinion for six months or so of last year overplayed Dinged up. I'm sure all the above I'm just telling you what my coach's eye tells me and I know what I saw and I know how good the brother is so to see him not Look like he had that that fire and it look like he was enduring a little bit. He was getting through He wasn't he wasn't competing and there were some moments in this match and these matches

Torrey Hawkins (05:05.861)
at Acapulco against Binoc and against Baluchi that I felt like wow.

Wow, Francis is enjoying it again. He's enjoying the battle again and he has the stamina and fitness and the confidence now to enjoy it. And that's what I saw. So I'm hoping that continues. You said it was ninth or whatever match. I think the more we keep seeing of that, that Francis, I never get tired of watching. That Francis is always a threat. And again, now that he's starting to put some confidence behind him, know, know, Kaboldia will be a real good test from the night, but I really feel like if

Francis is in the right mindset and has everything working for him. know, he is it's a it's a very good thing to see and I would I would give him the edge with anybody that you with anybody, you know top ten for that very reason because he has that kind of drive and and he enjoys that little that level of competition so Look forward to only more and more from him if he can continue stay right where he's at if not if not improve or is that but have that kind of that that joy of competition that he's

Alvin Owusu (05:56.109)
Ahem.

Alvin Owusu (06:03.232)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (06:13.637)
that he's always kind of fed off of, you know what I mean? And I feel like for a good chunk that was missing.

Alvin Owusu (06:19.341)
Okay, so there's kind of two things here. Well, one, let's say that is a good thing. Things are better when Francis is performing at a high Francis level. And I'm very peculiar with my words here when I say high Francis level because my expectation of a player is only to fulfill their own potential, right? To.

be the best player they can be. We all have some type of ceiling as tennis players, right? And it is your job as a professional tennis player to bump up against that ceiling as frequently as possible and probably sustain the top 10 % of your abilities throughout your career. That is a career of 10 years, 12 years on tour, maximizing your earning window. That is the job of a professional tennis player, right? Okay, one. Francis.

Torrey Hawkins (06:51.283)
sure.

Torrey Hawkins (07:10.181)
Yep. Great.

Alvin Owusu (07:14.093)
In 2023, I think it was, 2023 was his best year. got to 10 in the world. That might've been right before the U.S., probably right before the U.S. Open, because in 2022, he semi-finaled the U.S. Open, lost to Alcara's in five sets, beating Nadal on the way there. And then I assume those points, he lost to Ben, I think in the quarterfinals that next year. So I assume the points rolled off right before, whatever. Okay, so that is important because...

Torrey Hawkins (07:26.697)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (07:34.344)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (07:42.413)
And now my question kind of shifts to, Francis is back to maybe back to playing the best version of Francis Tiafotenas. But then what is that? What is that? What is that bubble? And you start, yeah, you know me. You see where I'm going with this. So I started looking back. It's like, okay, well, when you mentioned records against top tens, you gotta go all the way back to last year. No, sorry, 2024. That's the last time Francis beat someone who was ranked in the top 10 and he beat Demidrava in

Torrey Hawkins (07:49.001)
Right. What is that?

Yeah, for you.

Alvin Owusu (08:11.276)
naturally Demetrov retired in that match, right? In a grand slam, because that's what Grigor does. Looking good, looking good. But that was enough for him. And then I guess he did pick up a win against Bevvidev in the Labor Cup that same year. Matty was top 10. That's Labor Cup. Do with that what you will. But you have to go all the way back to 2022 when he'd beaten Nadal at the US Open to say, OK, that's a true top 10 win.

Torrey Hawkins (08:12.829)
So, so what do I do?

Torrey Hawkins (08:34.269)
I mean.

Alvin Owusu (08:40.896)
So about your previous point, like picking off some, you you want to go, I think you said 50 % against the top 10. Like if you're going 50 % against the top 10, that means you're meeting them often enough, which someone like Francis, who's usually on the backend of being seated at a grand slam, he's not going to play anyone in the top 10 until he gets to the quarterfinals anyway. So you got to get there one. And then you, if you are 50, 50 in quarterfinals,

Torrey Hawkins (08:54.333)
to get to.

Alvin Owusu (09:09.046)
Then you're making that means you're making some semis and you're probably a top 10 player yourself to get into the top 10. must be top 10. I mean to be top 10, you must beat the top 10, which is.

Torrey Hawkins (09:15.751)
That's To my point, there's more tournaments besides the slams.

and obviously the what I call the many slams like your sunshine double and others that are and obviously a new other 1000s. What I'm saying is 50 % is what you should aspire to. I don't we both understand if he faced if he faced 25 of them over the 40 some odd weeks of the tour is and he came up you know and he came up on you know of the 25 he came up with 10 to 12 wins that would still be an effort right you get what I'm trying to say so

Whether it's 50%, whether it's 45, whether it's 40, we're gonna be okay with that. What you don't want is the 10 % or as you just mentioned, and it's been a while since we've heard of Francis being here. It's been a while since, and that's all I'm saying. Now, this is all to say Francis is playing like.

player capable of doing that the player he was when he was doing that on the regular heck when he was top-10 right so I feel like he looks like that kind of player again I love seeing him look like that because it tells me he's ready to go tells me that the engines recharge the engines the engines got has been fine-tuned and had a nice little Added some zip he's got some premium gasoline in there. He's firing on all six cylinders. I love seeing it notice I didn't say eight cylinders. He don't have an eight cylinder game He's got a six cylinder game

However, the brother is doing great and I'm happy to see him look like he's enjoying the competition again, especially where he's at. I don't think Francis is one of those players that'll play till he's 35. I see him moving in some other ventures. don't see him, he's not the kind of player that likes to, if he's not winning, it's not as enjoyable to him. So I could see him being a type of player that would tap out after if he fell outside the top 25 or top 30. He's in it to win it.

Torrey Hawkins (11:10.001)
So those kind players, while I respect him, I could see him being one of types. I could see him tapping out within six months to a year if things weren't turned around. And I think that's why he has this renewed interest in the game. He has this new renewed, in a sense, mindset to get where he's trying to go. And that's why I'm applauding his success is because he looks to be trending in the right direction.

Alvin Owusu (11:38.347)
Yeah, and let's not pretend like he's like 100 in the world or something. He's sitting, he's still right around 30. Like that's baseline Francis. And I think that's why, like outside of just being a black American tennis player, and we are both black Americans who play tennis in America, besides that, it's like he has the ability to get to 10. And when he is relevant, things are better for our game.

and he has shown the ability to be relevant. Like Francis Tiafoe, quarterfinals of the US Open is a whole vibe. It switches from tennis to now, it is a thing in the kind of social ether. People are attracted to him and he is built for those kind of moments. But if we're losing third round at Delray, that's not cool either.

Torrey Hawkins (12:05.169)
that was a bad one.

Alvin Owusu (12:33.6)
We kind of won it all. We kind of won it all. I think it's, if Francis has decided that he also is back to wanting it all, I think he feels that kind of competitive fervor with his cohort as well. Like his cohort is American cohort with Taylor and with Tommy. Like those are his guys. like he sees Taylor has made a final of a Grand Slam and he's like, I can beat that guy. And Tommy got to top 10. He's like, I can beat that guy.

Torrey Hawkins (12:57.15)
Yep.

Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (13:00.854)
and they all came up together, know, training at USTA together, so I was like, the back end, so it's like, we just, yeah, if, you know, if you're with it, I'm with it. That's to you, Francis, if you're with it, then I'm with it, let's go. Let's let us go. Yeah. Just kind of coincidentally, we're gonna talk a little bit more about black tennis things, but this also supersedes tennis. Serena Williams. All right, I'm gonna try not to get,

Torrey Hawkins (13:15.529)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (13:25.577)
Yep.

Alvin Owusu (13:30.4)
too speculative here, right? She has come out, she has been in the anti-doping protocol, yada, yada, yada. She is now officially an unretired tennis player, right? That is one. Serena Williams, greatest of all time, according to this podcast, is now an unretired tennis player. That's one. Two, Serena Williams is also 44 years old. Let's, okay, make sure we caveat that. Serena Williams has not been a competitive tennis player since 2020.

Torrey Hawkins (13:43.953)
you

Alvin Owusu (13:59.85)
to 23, something like that. That's not the most important part. Let us say, let us speculate that while we don't know exactly what Serena is doing this for, going through, coming out of, officially coming out of retirement, we don't know why she's doing it. We can make some assumptions. She ain't doing it to play the mixed doubles slam at US Open or anything.

Torrey Hawkins (14:12.947)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (14:24.273)
Yeah, she might.

Alvin Owusu (14:27.372)
She... jeez. Arthur Ashe Stadium ain't big enough.

Torrey Hawkins (14:32.071)
I agree, but it would pack some seeds, would it not?

Alvin Owusu (14:36.445)
That woman is a force and Ash ain't big enough. Let's put it that way.

Torrey Hawkins (14:39.337)
I agree, I agree, but I would be there, I'll tell you that right now, you know what mean?

Alvin Owusu (14:44.332)
I'll probably still watch it on TV. let us say that Serena Williams is coming back to playing tennis, professional tennis. When we start to think about, okay, let's have a good time with this. What could Serena Williams be as a tennis player in 2026 and beyond? And I'm gonna give you a minute to think about it. I see you rolling your eyes. If you're not watching this on YouTube, Tori makes some faces sometimes.

As I drag him into this into these pits with me But I got I got kind of caught up in the okay if I were breaking this problem down How would I break this problem down? Okay? I look at her sister Venus as a proxy right Venus has come back kind of and is playing tennis Venus is an older player who is competing on the pro tour right now, right? And then I look at Naomi Osaka as a proxy former Grand Slam champion who had a kid

went away, came back officially in 2024, I think it was and is now back to the top 20 now in 2026. So as I look at these proxies, I don't like what I see. I don't like what I see at all. I don't like what I see outside of the outside of how awesome it would be for Serena to come back. And then I also look at her record against the women who are currently in the top 10.

And the number itself is, it doesn't really matter. She's 15 and seven against the ladies who are currently in top 10 in her career, but the best joining those are against Spitalina and Bincic and she hasn't played any of them since 2022. So it'll, right. That part. Um, so, uh, before I bore you and the listeners with, with statistics and I've given you some time to, to indulge me in this conversation.

Torrey Hawkins (16:25.609)
She doesn't believe it's 2022.

Torrey Hawkins (16:39.849)
I don't need any time. don't need any time. I have one question. It's very short. Why? And I don't understand the why. It is not for me to question Serena. The woman can do whatever she wants. She's the greatest of all time. She could come back. She could come back to play one match. She could come back to play a whole year. I could care less. She is a, she's proven everything, including that she can do whatever she wants. I will say this.

Alvin Owusu (16:40.043)
Okay.

Alvin Owusu (17:07.667)
Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (17:09.545)
as one of her bigger fans and what she's meant to the game. I remember her last US Open and I was glad she was going to go on the way out. You could tell mother time she's so good that she's able to change the gender of time itself. Mother time it caught up to her. She was still in the big ball. She just couldn't track down that same ball.

Serena bless us with darn near 20 years of greatness.

Alvin Owusu (17:39.925)
Yeah. God bless.

Torrey Hawkins (17:41.565)
great tennis and I mean great tennis. She blesses with more than 20 years but as far as great tennis, 20 years, she owes the game nothing. The game owes her, right? As far as it's concerned, butts in the seats, marketing, whole waves of tennis players have started, white and black, international, have come into the game due to one, Serena Williams. And hats off to obviously her sister as well. My...

Alvin Owusu (17:50.261)
She was playing in 98.

Torrey Hawkins (18:11.217)
My coaches I says.

I know she's on the GLP-1s and what not. looks good in the commercials. She looks great. She's always looked great to me. She just is an older version. And three years ago, I don't know if she could handle some of things. I'm not so sure that the three years plus version will be that much faster and fitter. The other thing I want to add to this Alvin is, and again, we don't know.

There's a difference between playing a match and there's a difference between playing a tournament. And there's a difference between playing a tournament and playing the tour. I want to make sure you mention Venus as a proxy, which I think is as close as a proxy as you're going to get for a lot of people.

Alvin Owusu (18:55.049)
Right, right, right, right.

Alvin Owusu (19:02.485)
to use a few different proxies to that's because Serena is a supernova.

Torrey Hawkins (19:04.489)
You can have 18 composites as a proxy for screen and still not really catch up to the total. But let's use her as the closest proxy due to age. Venus, what house was it? it 45 last year, 46? What was she when she played? It was 45, 44 last year I thought, right? So that's one the most important. The or you're in half point, Venus looked great in that match.

Alvin Owusu (19:20.331)
Venus is 45 right now. turned, yeah, 45 last year. 45 last year. Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (19:34.185)
and then didn't look great in the next match when she played in DC. And then the same with the open, she looked like she was right there. But I don't know if she was gonna look like she was right there for four more matches, you know what mean? Let alone five, let alone six. And can she hit with, I think everybody saw there that Venus can still hit with the best of. You know what mean? I also feel like.

Alvin Owusu (19:34.335)
against Peyton.

Alvin Owusu (19:39.881)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (19:58.663)
like her sister, Venus had nothing to prove. Seven slams? I don't know how many double championships she had with her sister. There is nothing, literally nothing to prove. Hall of Fame career, period. Without any extra comebacks, maybe it was just a personal thing, maybe it was just something to prove to herself. I don't know. All I can say is that it wasn't necessary for me. Her, she's not diminished in any way for me.

But she didn't also need to go out there and prove that to me either, maybe it was something for herself. And that extra ding, did it prove that a 44 or 45 year old woman can still play at the highest level? Great, then mission accomplished, right? And so to me, especially having that having been done by her sister, what would Serena do? Unless it's some sort of sibling bet, I can do it too. Maybe, I just don't feel, I don't see the relevance in it, I don't see.

I don't see it being something.

I'll put it this way, I don't see the qualitative relevance for the tennis world at large aside from it being a great thing for fans to come back and get one more look at her in person and see her greatness one last time. I just maybe for her daughter, think she two girls, two girls to see her, maybe that's what it is. don't know, but if it's something that personal and something that sentimental, hey,

Alvin Owusu (21:18.911)
Two kids now,

Torrey Hawkins (21:27.093)
all for it you know what mean but I just I just feel like the game has moved on she left it in great hands she kept it up she literally kept it where it was at at its very high level and as far as I'm concerned darn near single-handedly for so many years that I feel like

I like I personally want to, I know the game has moved on physically, right? And you just can't turn back that clock. I just want to make sure that everyone appreciates that. She was, she still is the best of all time. And it doesn't.

It doesn't need, she doesn't need to prove anything more to anyone. And so hence why I questioned the, you know, the farewell tour, so to speak, that's what we're hinting at for one more go round of the merry-go-round. I just feel like if you moved on, go ahead. Stay gone. Go to the booth. You know what mean? Coach player. You know what mean? There's other ways to return to tennis.

Alvin Owusu (22:37.131)
She ain't doing any of that. She ain't doing any of that.

Torrey Hawkins (22:39.209)
And that's fair. And again, she'll anything she wants. All I'm saying is...

Alvin Owusu (22:46.123)
Okay, okay, there's a couple things here. again, it's all speculative. We are in the space of speculation right now because she has not said anything official. She's doing things, she's ducking questions. So until she says, this is what I'm doing, then we have the space to talk about this however we wanna talk about it. So Serena says now I can talk about it, I'm gonna talk about it. There's a couple things here that I have to.

Torrey Hawkins (22:48.679)
Not, not,

Torrey Hawkins (23:09.033)
I'm gonna call them Clay. I'm gonna call them Clay.

Alvin Owusu (23:13.299)
Exactly. I knew you'd get that one. That was off the backboard. was easy. So the Venus thing, right? So we go back to, we go back, often talk about that DC run, right? Where she, think, I don't remember she won doubles with, what's the lady from DC? Where's the chain? She played, it'll come, yes, I think she was playing with Haley, right? In DC. It doesn't matter.

Torrey Hawkins (23:36.466)
Haley?

Alvin Owusu (23:42.015)
She did well in doubles, and not that Haley doesn't matter, I'm just saying the doubles doesn't matter, for this conversation. The run she had was two singles matches, right? She beat Peyton Stearns in a match where Peyton Stearns looked like a deer in headlights for a lot of good reason. She was just freaked out, right? And then lost right after that. But I think we have to kind of look at this at the macro like.

Torrey Hawkins (23:57.801)
Sure. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (24:07.178)
In the last, I don't know, four years, Venus is four and 20. Like she's four and 20. And one of those matches was the Peyton Seren match, right? Besides that, she hadn't won a match since 2023, right? So like when we watch, and when I watched that match, because I think I was back home by then, I didn't watch the, I wasn't there for that match. I was in DC, but I wasn't there for that match. She looked a little, a hair slow. She can still hit, Venus can still hit.

Venus will be able to hit all of her life. Like when players have it, they will be able to do that all the time. All the time. Case in point, I hit next to our friend Angie Haynes just yesterday, right? Just yesterday at Lifetime. And my buddy was like, my buddy was like, gosh, she's good. I was like, yeah, she was top 70 in the world. Yeah. Head doesn't move. Like just it's always going to look good. It's always going to look good. But the

Torrey Hawkins (24:39.817)
and

Torrey Hawkins (24:50.215)
Yeah, it's a good ball, she? That left hand in the corner? Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (25:04.009)
Come

Alvin Owusu (25:05.876)
There are very, very fine margins in winning tennis matches. I remember some years ago, went to a, I'll kind get back to this, I went to a triple A baseball game, no, A, double A baseball game. It a double A baseball game in Gwinnett County. And there were just some like, you're at a baseball game and you know, you and I, if we grew up watching baseball, you watch it on television, you're watching professional baseball, ball gets hit down here, that's the duck, I field it, those are the first, it's right on target. you just kind of, there were just kind of like rhythms of the.

thing happens, you know what's gonna happen, 643 double play, blah, blah, pop up, cleanly fields it, tags it, things just kind of happen automatically. But you almost take for granted that you're watching the best players in the world. Because when you go watch a level underneath, two levels underneath, I'm seeing off target throws the first, what the hell is that? What is that? And it's like, oh, you just took for granted how good the,

Torrey Hawkins (25:50.462)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (25:55.849)
Yeah.

I would those others.

Alvin Owusu (26:02.154)
The best players in the world are to make that look like it's normal. And so I bring this back to the Venus scenario in which when she's hitting, she's always going to look fine. But when you start playing tennis matches against other professional tennis players, she looked a little bit off, like a little bit off. And that's that little bit off is enough to not win tennis matches on the WTA tour. Venus is actually ranked like 500 something in the world. Like it ain't like she's getting into these tournaments because she's still a high level tour player.

Right? So let's not take the age thing off the table. It is firmly on the table. It's the thing. It is the thing, right? Exactly.

Torrey Hawkins (26:37.865)
Oh, it might be the only thing on the table as as I'm concerned. It is the lazy Susan of things. Everything goes around it. Everything is on it and around it and because of it.

Alvin Owusu (26:50.922)
And so we were bringing Serena to the scenario. Like, yeah, we can, can, we can wistfully dream that we'll see Serena competing for whatever. And when she, when she made the third round, I think it was of the U S open in 2022. And she took out, uh, she beat the number two seed, I think in the first or second round. Um, and she was, she looked like Peyton Sterns freaked out. Um, uh, God, Swedish girl, last name starts with a K it won't come to me right now. Um,

But you could also tell that Serena was just a little bit off. Like she hadn't played a lot. She was playing herself into form in the tournament. But when she got against, Tom Yonavich in the third round, Isla was like, I'm gonna lose this match. You're gonna have to go through me. I'm an informed professional tennis player who's not going to get freaked out about this. What's going on right now. And then Serena's lack of tennis, like reps kind of showed and okay.

So I remember Serena saying something like, know, this is my farewell and that's great. But like I was, I felt like I was right there. Maybe if I just, if I actually played some, if I practiced and played some tournaments and got ready, maybe I could still go do this. And it's like, yeah, maybe, but that was also four years ago. So.

Torrey Hawkins (28:05.795)
It was a one. I'm hoping that...

that the medical company, Rowe I think it's called, has put up some insane amount of money or something to kind of tell that whole story and talk about getting people's lives back quote unquote and there's just this whole big media campaign. I'm hoping that's what this is all coming down to. Not for the money but for women everywhere, you know, and kind of get your life back so to speak as part of this whole big campaign. If so, I love the message, love all of it. I don't know that I need to see it in a pro tournament, especially when I could Grand Slam to

Prove sad thing and again can serenity whatever heck she wants to do 1000 % she ain't she's darned She definitely my approval for anything either way what I'm mentioning is as one of her fans that appreciates her legacy there's just no reason to add to it or detract from it and Whatever she's gonna do I support but you know that Serena that Serena has retired as far as I'm concerned the person that she is now at 44 years of age and mother to and

and so on and so forth. She can do whatever she wants that she deems good for her family and for the game. And I'll leave it at that. I feel like a lot of these players when they come back.

I don't realize how much harder we just talk about people like coming back like Jack Draper and how hard it's gonna be for Hogaruna, know, and other players like that who were top 10, you know, to come back after less than a year, six months going out, six months, seven, eight months, Hogar may be gone for almost a full year, right? Demetra still trying to make a comeback after his situation in Wimbledon last year, know.

Alvin Owusu (29:43.07)
Hell, Naomi, Naomi was out for, you know, she was out for about a year and it's taken her 18 months to get back to her best tennis and her best tennis is like just inside the top 20. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (29:54.325)
It's still ain't.

when in US Open again and and to my point I'm just saying let's not kid ourselves with any illusions of grandeur here you know Charlie Murphy you know let's not let's not any illusions of any grandeur of where that's going to that's and that's just the physicality of the game Alvin had nothing to do with her if anybody could do it it's the physicality game she didn't look like herself in 2022 let's be honest you know what I mean when when Naomi beat it up was that 2020

Alvin Owusu (30:15.121)
Right. Right.

Torrey Hawkins (30:25.387)
want to say or 2020?

Alvin Owusu (30:26.377)
Naomi beat her in 2018. No, 2018. US Open 28. Oh no, the semi-final. That was 2021. I'll show you an open. I think she lost to Naomi. That's probably the one you're talking about.

Torrey Hawkins (30:35.337)
I mean, when she had to be the one where she battled toward and all that, that had to be the 2018 or 2019. She was 2019. That was to me the sign of the end. Alvin is 2026, brother. You know what mean?

Alvin Owusu (30:43.177)
Oh, that's 2018. Yeah, yeah. US Open.

Alvin Owusu (30:50.409)
I know what time it is. I'm sitting in the chair.

Torrey Hawkins (30:53.481)
I mean, that's eight years ago. So I'm just saying, to me, I wish her all the best. She is and will always be the queen, but let's not, let's not, let's let this be a media stunt. Let's let this be a big program for wellness and health and wellness everywhere. And I hope that's what it is and even better. And on that note, we can move on.

Alvin Owusu (31:17.553)
And yeah, I mean.

Okay, and we will find out, right? That's the I was gonna have us have this conversation about like, what would she look like against the top 10, whatever, I don't wanna do it, I don't wanna do it. Let's just, we'll move on, let us not forget that her husband is a very heavy investor in that GLP One Company row. So like, let's not pretend like this thing's slick talk. One last thing I wanna talk about before we get outta here, my adventures in tennis over the last week or so, I saw Eric Jackson today.

Torrey Hawkins (31:22.537)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (31:37.597)
There you go.

Thank you.

Alvin Owusu (31:51.156)
We exchanged numbers. Yeah, he's teaching at my local tennis center. So this is exciting. I'm gonna get my dragon back out there, get him hitting again. I was playing a week ago, right after I saw you. for the listeners who aren't aware, Tori and I live in the same general area. Atlanta is a big place, but we live actually like almost an hour from each other. So we don't see each other in person that often, generally outside of the slams. But we did get together a couple weeks ago.

Torrey Hawkins (31:51.207)
Don't know what hell these are doing.

Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (32:13.607)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (32:21.257)
Talk a little talk and we got to talking about rackets. I feel like we met up to, for me to give you something transactional and then we ended up spending 15, 20 minutes in the parking lot because that's what we do when we see each other. just, just, we're always talking and we were talking rackets. We were talking strings, right? We were talking strings and I, my setup is Pure Arrow 100, the 2023 version and I usually use RPM blast 16.

Torrey Hawkins (32:33.895)
Yeah, yeah. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (32:50.665)
50 in the mains, 48 in the crosses. That's my weapon of choice. And I was trying to, you we were talking about like, if I should maybe blend something else in the crosses, we talked about some multi-filaments, but I burned those, I burned those in like 30 minutes. Like it was a joke. But when I broke all my strings, as I was hitting with my good friend Logan, Logan handed me a racket. Logan plays with a Pure Drive, Pure Drive Pro.

Torrey Hawkins (33:20.723)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Alvin Owusu (33:21.033)
Stiff, that bad boy's stiff. Much stiffer than my frame. I'm hitting with it. TH, I hadn't hit the ball that well. I was like, what am I, what have I been missing? And it was strung up a little too tight too. It's like, checked the specs, the hardcore tag on it, it was like at 53. I'm like, you still shooting at 53? I'm like, if I got this stiff racket with a poly, even high 40s, I know you're pushing me to go low 40s, but even high 40s.

Torrey Hawkins (33:39.005)
work.

Alvin Owusu (33:50.89)
I feel like that's the sweet spot. Stiff frame, some poly that does some work, and then just let that thing rip. So can you unpack what the stiff frame means for those who may not be as technically savvy, stiff frame means and then what the activity with a polyester string and a stiff frame will actually allow a player. Who has?

Torrey Hawkins (34:19.219)
Sure.

Alvin Owusu (34:19.635)
technically soundstrokes. me let, I'm not, I don't suck. it's important to call that out. But yeah, go ahead.

Torrey Hawkins (34:26.889)
The stiff frame of things is allowing you as a

ball striker to appreciate a stiff frame you are going to be able to hit the targets you want to hit with a stiffer frame a little more flex in the frame you're going get a lot of heavy you're going to get a lot of action on the ball with a stiff frame you'll get some spin but not necessarily as heavy the frame is not meant for heavy the frame is meant for penetration it's meant to propel said ball to said direction as clean

efficiently and efficiently as it can, hence why the frame doesn't have any give.

the compound of that is when you have a polyester which is a very dead slash unforgiving string bed that's going to do the exact same thing and if you have a Babylon pure drive you know with a stiff string buddy you will be able to hit the daylights out of the ball and you will hit it you want to see corner hit corner I mean it'll be right where you want to be flat serves in particular you know one of my favorite players of all time Andy Roddick used to always play with the pure with the arrow with the pure drive and buddy

He could hit the daylights out of it. Serve in particular, right? I think we all know Andy's is his service speed precedes him. mean, don't have to speak to the prowess of the blue bat. When you start talking about how well you hit with, right? And as a coach, I look at that too and say, okay, if there was anybody but you who I know how fast you are and how good you are with your strokes, I'd say, yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (36:08.905)
It's going to help you get the ball big. Are you able to return that ball coming back that big? And are you able to, are you going to give up some heavy, which you might need for time? That's just me as a coach talking because you need to see the other side of it. The Blue Bab is not a volley or forte racket. It's not the best racket to slice with. It's not the best one to play doubles with per se. Great for singles, great for bashing balls, great for hitting.

You have to understand what you're looking for. You're looking for more of a racket that's gonna give you a little bit of shape. You need a racket that has a little bit more flex in the hand. You need a racket that you probably need to bring that tension down quite a bit. You're gonna need a racket that's going to play like you want it to play. Buy you a little bit of time. Free power, right? And be able to, if I swing at six units, it's gonna give me eight units, right? And that's kind of what I'm looking for. A little spray every once in a while, but it's gonna give me a lot more depth than I planned for. And if I can compound that with a string, a poly, that doesn't give, but it's a little more of a trampoline.

I get a little more flex and now I can swing at five and get eight right and so that also helps me to that degree What I find is people don't fully know what they need They simply know what they like and that's where we kind of run into problems is people have to kind of understand. Okay, what do I? Need this is what I do. It's what I do. Well, this is what I have trouble right and kind of marry those two Ketchup bottles so to speak. I'm well, I do well with this and I like

doing this. This way I can get into trouble. Then kind of figure out can the racket be the solution or is the racket kind of part of the problem. You know what I mean? And so you know those things you got to look at Roddick himself right who had very good volleys and you know back he could have always been a little cleaner but had hit a big ball. Andy lived to die by serve so it didn't matter and anything else would not have given the same serve speed so at that point it was a non-starter. But if you look at Nadal, Nadal didn't necessarily need a bigger serve while he was able to hit better bigger targets.

And he was able to flatten it out and his string was his secret sauce When he played with those with the Pierero for all that for all those years So I just feel like a person has to know what they need the hybrids to me are done Unless you have such good hands such good feel you play a lot of doubles you do a lot of slicing you do a lot of volley you need that feel to me the the hybrids are done I'd say take a poly and go lower or or take a good synthetic and just go with a thicker gauge and play with the 15 L or or 16

Torrey Hawkins (38:34.891)
engaged on the poly. Heck, even Gutt. Gutt actually has really good duration, really good lifespan. And then play with that and go from there. But either way, you've got to kind of figure out what do I do if I'm playing a lot? What am I playing a lot with? And there's nothing wrong with having different strings for different types of things. Heck, different times of the year. And shoot, for that matter, different bats for what you're doing. I've seen guys, I've seen some club players that are decent that hit with a single stick and they got a double stick.

Alvin Owusu (38:40.934)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (39:04.841)
to me and they kind of go back and forth. Maybe it's an older version of the one and the newer version of same one and they get stringed up a little differently when they're doing one of each but to me that's where you want to look at. It's kind of marry it to your game a little more than it is my favorite stick and these make it work for everything.

Alvin Owusu (39:20.684)
Yeah, kind of going backwards. I wanted to kind of interject a little Andy Roddy thing. Maybe I've told this story before on this podcast, but once I was teaching at a club some years ago, and Andy was two, there was a court between Andy and I. I was on court four, he was on court two.

hitting with Ryan Harrison. And I remember this like it was yesterday because it was 4th of July. I'm gonna sneak in a couple lessons and then go out on the for the rest of the day. And I remember being on the same side, Andy and I were on opposite sides and he's hitting volleys against Ryan. I swear to God he didn't hit a volley that didn't land within like 24 inches of the baseline. Like it like people talk about Andy Roddick's volleys. They don't they don't give him enough respect. Like I feel like Andy Roddick does not get enough respect as a tennis player. He won a Grand Slam.

Torrey Hawkins (39:41.799)
Yeah.

Torrey Hawkins (39:56.402)
love.

Torrey Hawkins (40:03.922)
I agree.

Alvin Owusu (40:05.702)
He's never won the world, but people go, so many finals losses. Yada, yada, yada, yada. He was in the middle of like Goat Central. Dude was so good.

Torrey Hawkins (40:09.353)
it.

Torrey Hawkins (40:13.521)
and had three, maybe four finals during GOAT Central. You know what mean? That goats.

Alvin Owusu (40:17.668)
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah, let's let's so yeah, like, like, you need people need to put some respect on my man's name. I know they do, but maybe not enough. This the the stiffness thing. The thing that I thought when I said I was hitting the ball when I hit the ball so well, it was the ball was going where I wanted the ball to go. And you mentioned like, it almost feels like the stiffer the

the stiffer the racket, the more like a two by four it feels like, right? It's very responsive. Like what you do is what you're gonna get. And I think when you start talking about if your strokes are not technically sound, right, you're looking for the racket to give you something extra. And I think the issue that I've been, that I probably had with the, the, the Pureiro is the racket's given me more than I need. It's not allowing me to do what I wanna do. It's doing, I have to almost do something different.

Torrey Hawkins (40:59.489)
That's right.

Alvin Owusu (41:12.828)
to get what I want out of the racket, because it's also trying to do something. Like I remember case in point, Logan hit a slice backhand cross court, that thing kind of died right in the back left corner. I got low. I was like, I'm going to try to whip this thing up the line with a little banana on it. I was shy. was like, that did exactly what I wanted it to do. Input in, output. So that was fun. I might mess around with some stiffer rackets in the next upcoming months.

Torrey Hawkins (41:12.957)
Right.

Torrey Hawkins (41:26.907)
and you can do it.

Alvin Owusu (41:41.98)
the next evolution of my personal tennis game. But that is what's going on in Alvin's tennis life right now.

Torrey Hawkins (41:44.776)
The point that I would mention to the listeners and viewers is as we get older, as we change, as we get stronger, maybe you're a junior turning from 14 to 16, that's a huge difference in strength there, 16 to 22, come out of school, you're full grown now, you're a whole different person.

Alvin Owusu (41:57.319)
Mm-hmm.

Torrey Hawkins (42:04.457)
keep evolving the equipment to match your current needs. clearly 20 years ago I was man I was a lot stronger than Alvin I was drawing good shape and whatnot and now I'm okay for a guy with 50 but I'm not I'm not in the same shape I was when I was 30 so I think it's something that you just could and don't turn your nose about a racket you may not have ever played with because you didn't when you were such-and-such age or level you didn't play with that level what you you're not that same level anymore you know I mean come down play it

Alvin Owusu (42:08.274)
current needs.

Torrey Hawkins (42:34.431)
the racket that fits you. Play the string, play the tension and a lot of us nowadays are hitting more, Alvin, like you are. We're not playing a ton of sets and tournaments anymore. So things are a lot different. You got to just play with your current, play with what helps your current situation, not what it was 20 years ago. And I know tennis guys are notorious for playing with the same stick, same grip, same string from back in the day. the world of tennis technology as far as equipment has changed.

light years, know what I mean, in terms of all the options out there. that's just that's that's my parting comment for the viewers and listeners out there.

Alvin Owusu (43:14.633)
Absolutely. Well, we will go on no longer. That was fun. Thank you for indulging me, especially in this Serena talk. I'm Alvin. That's where I remember like and subscribe. That's the three. We are out.

Torrey Hawkins (43:20.925)
you

Torrey Hawkins (43:26.323)
Don't do it, Serena, don't do it.