Jannik Sinner’s Skiing Background Explains Everything

Alvin Owusu (00:01.13)
It is the best of three podcast. I'm still Alvin. That's Pat Parr. Pat, welcome back to the podcast. So we talk, we chat fairly frequently, and you hit me up and you were like, I gotta.

Patrick Parr (00:17.566)
Okay, thank you.

Alvin Owusu (00:24.632)
He's like, you said I gotta get this center stuff out of my brain. This Yannick Center, he's on my brain right now. I feel like, based on our interactions over the last few months, we did a really, I think a really strong episode on Carlos Ocaraz and your experience watching him live. So for anyone listening, I highly suggest you go back and listen to that one. I'll link it in the show notes. But then also post ATP.

the Trolls came out and really felt like we weren't giving Center enough due respect. So Trolls, this one is for you. So Pat, okay, okay. All right, give it to me. What about Yannick Center speaking to you today as we wind down the year?

Patrick Parr (01:05.872)
dear. Yeah.

Patrick Parr (01:17.266)
Well, I guess when I was watching him doing the indoors, the whole indoor tour, in-nito and all that, I thought...

There is a much bigger gap between Sinner and Alcares indoors than anywhere else, I think. And I started to feel that Sinner would dominate this sphere for years if he wanted to, as long as he had the adequate motivation and kept being who he is now. But...

I wanted to understand this guy more because I keep thinking him as a machine. I keep thinking him as almost like an AI algorithm, know, or something that, right, someone who just, okay, I'm learning how to play your style. okay, now I have it. Okay, just like he absorbs people's styles and he gets used to them and then he...

Unpacks he he unspools them in a way that he'll never lose to them again. So

Basically, I thought where did this guy come from? Like who is this guy? He's clearly not a machine. He's clearly not an AI. Like what makes this guy tick? And one of the things I shared with you also is I've been watching a lot of his between points activities and something I noticed that was really interesting is that he has coping mechanisms. If you really look closely at Yannick,

Patrick Parr (02:49.855)
and the way he moves around on the court. Between points, he often avoids stepping on the lines, the service lines, the sidelines. He does not step on them. I have like three or four clips that I could just pop in to show you, but this is something that I think is central to understanding center as an athlete, is this weird way of...

Alvin Owusu (02:49.933)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (03:19.143)
finding a central focus during a match. Whereas you have Alcares who's just, he's like, come on crowd, give me some energy. Sinner.

He's completely inward. He keeps it all in within a core. And I think whenever there's a moment of incredible celebration, yeah, he'll do a fist bump or fist pump to his team or something like that. But then he comes back and thinks, okay, I'm gonna stay within what I'm gonna control.

And that mentality is fascinating to me and it kind of moving me back into who he was as a kid and what his influences were. So that's kind of where I'm going with it today.

Alvin Owusu (04:04.141)
Okay, that makes sense. I mean, just kind of like two things. So, center indoors is like one, a joke, right? He's unlike something like a 31 match win streak indoors, which is not nothing. mean, he's won 90 some odd matches indoors on his time on tour, which has not been that long. mean, he's been effectively in our consciousness as tennis fans since about 2020, which is not long ago. And then kind of fast forward to the part you mentioned about like his

Patrick Parr (04:28.413)
True, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (04:33.419)
we'll call them between point rituals, right? Like he does, now that you mention it and bring it to the forefront here, exhibit a lot of the things that you would, like sports psychologists like Jorge Valverde, right, has this mental toughness training that he teaches in lots of academies here in the United States teach it, but it's kind of this structured approach, like very systematic to the way you handle yourself between each point that is very methodical. You do the same things, you.

Patrick Parr (04:46.237)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (05:01.611)
you do it to bring your heart rate down, you do it to keep your mind focused, it's all there and you see him arms bent, kind of hulking a little bit when he moves between points and just, yeah, seems like he's really going through the process, going through, embodying that method point after point after point after point.

Patrick Parr (05:13.116)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (05:22.053)
Right, and I think center.

I don't know if he's had sports psychologists around him for a long time or not, or even a short time, but he has those mechanisms that help him on the court, that help him stay focused. It's pretty easy to see once you, I mean, if you really go through his career, like when he was really young to now, you can see how he's improved that focus. And so I went back all the way to when he was a child and you know, he was a champion.

A lot of people know already that he was a skier, right? He did a, he was a champion skier by the time he was seven. And I have not, I should say this very quickly. I am not a trained skier at all because when I was growing up, everybody told me when I was playing tennis and trying to get better, yo, go to the slopes, you'll break your leg. Great idea. And then you can't play tennis. That's what they said, you know? So I know, Oh my God, I would break my leg. I won't ski. So.

But at the same time, we have three of the best tennis players of this century, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Janek Sinner, all three of them skied quite a bit as kids. And I thought, okay, so if I'm going to talk about skiing, I got to at least understand the mentality of skiing. Like what happens to skiers when they're on the slopes? So I went back to Bodie Miller.

Alvin Owusu (06:40.301)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick Parr (06:55.295)
your boat yeah so Bodie Miller was Sinner's idol first before any other tennis players so Sinner liked he liked Bodie's idea of crash like the crash and burn mentality right so

Alvin Owusu (06:55.457)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (07:03.082)
Interesting.

Alvin Owusu (07:09.677)
Doesn't really sound like Yannick

Patrick Parr (07:11.429)
Yeah, right, right. So I'm going to read a quote. I know this is weird, but let me read a quote from Bodhi's memoir. Because Bodhi loved tennis, actually, But this is a... He published a memoir in 2005, and it's called Go Fast. There you go. And it goes like this. He says, I love the gestalt of skiing, the integration of biology, technology, and psychology.

Alvin Owusu (07:19.405)
Please.

Patrick Parr (07:41.408)
to excel at something that's over long before you can soft boil an egg. And then he says, the freedom, the expression, the do or die will to win, the high charged physical and mental challenge, the obscurity, the duplicity, the objectivity, and of course the speed. In tennis, only the ball goes fast. I like that.

Alvin Owusu (08:06.374)
Hmm. Yeah, yeah, I get it.

Patrick Parr (08:09.615)
I like it, I also, so this, focusing on the do or die thing. Wow. I mean, that to me, I don't know. What are your thoughts when you, after you're hearing something like that?

Alvin Owusu (08:22.411)
Well, mean, even, okay, you take them, okay, I think that helps the mentality of a skier turned tennis player, like that checks, right? But even down to the physicality and the biomechanics of skiing, right? What do you have to do, especially if you're a slalom skier, right? You're going from side to side, you're always trying to keep your hips low.

trying to keep your center gravity, keep your head on top of your shoulders while you're moguling out of corners. And we in tennis take phrases from skiing. A mogul is like, it is the basic open stance out wide, hit, open stance, almost like a shuffle step so that you can recover back and get back to the center of the court. We call that a mogul, right? So that is from skiing. when you think about,

Patrick Parr (09:12.625)
Wow, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (09:16.971)
Federer, makes sense in that like Federer hanging around like skiing and like just like feels very Swiss and very Roger. But like when you, but then when you, it's kind of hard to think about it in the same way you think about Djokovic in center because the way that they maneuver in the corners like screams like I'm used to keeping my center of gravity low, sliding, keeping head still, completing an athletic movement and getting back.

Patrick Parr (09:20.262)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (09:25.074)
Right.

Patrick Parr (09:31.409)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (09:45.293)
almost all in one fell swoop. Roger didn't necessarily do that, especially because of the one-handed backhand, but the way that he moved was so quiet and so efficient, mostly because he was able to stay low all the time. can kind of see the tenets of being a good mover, he's gotta be able to stay low. And Roger had that in spades. So yeah, that's...

Patrick Parr (10:06.077)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (10:11.025)
That's it. Yeah. I will. When I when I think about Federer's past and Christopher Clary has a good book on him called The Master. And yeah. And when he was

Alvin Owusu (10:19.243)
so good.

Patrick Parr (10:23.525)
He was going into Federer's background. Federer touched a lot of different sports. But I do think squash is one of the biggest keys as to why he's able to just pick up the ball so quickly, like off a low bounce. Like that flick of the wrist, the way he's able to turn it over, it's never been done better, I think, at this point. But yeah.

Alvin Owusu (10:47.072)
Have you ever played squash?

Patrick Parr (10:49.505)
Badly. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (10:51.916)
It feels like if you ran up your alley, like I have, know one person who, that I know that grew up playing squash. He was also a very good tennis player. He and his brother both played division one, but like he was so crafty. Like the ability to inside, like inside in slice forehands, like drop shots, soft touch, like a poor, a poor Federer. But again, like those are my two data points on.

Patrick Parr (11:14.237)
too.

Mmm.

Alvin Owusu (11:20.876)
person plays squash and has sick feel.

Patrick Parr (11:24.153)
Sick feel is the key. That is the key. And also butting out your opponent so that they can't get the ball. But anyway, that's the...

So I played squash only by accident because it was a wall and there was a place nearby my house where I could hit tennis balls off a squash wall. this guy would let me do that. But then he's like, can you just play the sport that this was built for? know, a couple times and then yeah, then I got into it a bit. yeah, squash is lightning quick and everything is right off that first...

couple milliseconds of a bounce. So I see that so much in Federer's game, yeah, going back to center though, and I guess Djokovic, the do or die mentality is what I was really diving into. And Bodhi's memoir, he talks about going 65 miles an hour as a six year old. And I thought,

If I was going 65, I thought back to when I was six, going down a hill.

and I see slow and like I'm done. don't stop. Somebody's got to stop me and there's probably going to be a tree. So to me, I think about the how does your personality change when you have that level of speed exposed to you at that age? Because he keeps talking about he loves the speed. He loves going fast and with center, you know, of course he loved it too, right? But

Patrick Parr (13:01.151)
You make one false step in skiing and you might be done, right? You might... So I almost think that they, those three, well especially Sinner, because he was a champion skier and he did it all the way until he was 12. That mentality, that intensity of focus...

Can any other tennis player around him match that? Because Sinner was dealing with life or death for years as a skier. So when it comes to the dangers of tennis, that's tennis. You're on the ground.

Alvin Owusu (13:30.348)
That's a good point.

Alvin Owusu (13:38.935)
You know, he also has this quote, what is it? I like to dance in a pressure storm. I think that's the one that he's repeated a few times. And I think the interesting thing about Yannick is like, Yannick has very boyish features. He's very polite when he speaks. And so I think we assume certain things about him. Like there's a halo effect there, right?

Patrick Parr (13:56.445)
True.

Patrick Parr (14:06.619)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (14:08.476)
Nothing about his tennis or even like his personal life. You see the way my man dates. Like he's not, he's not out here for, for, for, for, for the BS, you know, he's, he's a, guy, that guy's out there being, being an Italian, number one tennis player in the world kind of, kind of guy. Like, and exactly, exactly with the, with the ranking and the winnings come the spoils and he's, he's enjoying the spoils.

Patrick Parr (14:15.089)
He done. That's true.

Patrick Parr (14:24.167)
Yeah.

That's right. He's using that ethos. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (14:37.632)
But then the way he plays tennis is not, it's not bashful. is violent, it is with purpose, and he does not waste time. The way that he can turn normal players, like we were chatting a little earlier about, I think about Yuri Lehechka, and they played at the French Open this year, and the way he went through him, like Yuri's a

Patrick Parr (14:45.287)
Pray for it. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (15:06.422)
top 20 player, like that's not a, he treats non-alcaraz players like they're nothing and it's not like just the result, it's the way that he does it. Like he turns rally balls that other people would take his rally balls and he's like, no, that's not good enough. It's not good enough. Winner in the corner, start again, do better.

Patrick Parr (15:13.085)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (15:24.285)
That's right, that's right.

Or it's almost like Neo turning the bullets around in a Matrix, right? No. You know, like, no. Like, no. And let me just go ahead and take that one down the line and end this, you know. So I think Sinner has that pinpoint quality about him that, like, for example, like whenever I watch Shelton a lot, and La Hedgeka too, when you brought up La Hedgeka, I was thinking, that guy has,

Alvin Owusu (15:34.677)
Right.

Patrick Parr (15:58.288)
athleticism that he hasn't even explored yet on the tennis court. he, whenever he plays a guy he's supposed to lose to, I feel like he just, he does these shotgun blast forehands to to Sinner and Alcaraaz. And he's just trying, he's trying everything. And I think that's what a lot of the players are doing except Alcaraaz against Sinner. They're thinking, okay, well, let's find out what works. Let's throw the laboratory at him and let's see what Sinner, and Sinner can

I like, this guy doesn't really know what he's doing, he's experimenting, I'll just slowly, slowly strangle him and take this match. So, yes.

Alvin Owusu (16:36.287)
Yeah. Well, Hetchka's an interesting one. know that we're not, mean, whatever, we can talk about whatever we want to talk about. Yeah, Yere is, he's a peculiar, he's a very peculiar case. I've, I mean, he beat, he beat, I remember he beat Nadal kind of on Nadal's farewell tour and they beat him like in a very strong showing. And then also I'm kind of bouncing around a little bit here, but I, when I was in DC this year for the, for that 500,

Patrick Parr (16:41.905)
Yeah, yeah, it's all right.

Patrick Parr (16:54.983)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick Parr (17:01.106)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (17:05.661)
I saw him play against Alex Dimanour and it was a really fun, entertaining match. And when you watch a guy like him play, like, God, he's got it all, man. He's got it all. But like, I mean, it's just kind of more of a testament to like what it takes to want to be like Yeri Lahechka or Alex Dimanour. And then like what it takes to be Alex Dimanour or Yannick Center. It's like there are, it's a hop, skip and a jump between those levels and...

Patrick Parr (17:15.866)
It does.

Alvin Owusu (17:33.673)
But when you look at his vitals and you look at his age and everything, like, yeah, this guy looks like he could be one of the guys.

Patrick Parr (17:40.358)
He could be, he could be one of the guys and I think he's gonna have like a six month blast of success and everybody's gonna get up like into his camp and say, wow, this guy could elevate. But I don't know if he can sustain it as somebody who like an Alcraz or a center or even as Zverev who is just madly consistent. Lee almost there.

Alvin Owusu (18:08.403)
Right, yes.

Patrick Parr (18:09.211)
Yeah, almost there. God's very observe. But yeah. No worries. Yeah, yeah, I'm there too. But I hope I hope he can do have have that one tournament for him.

Alvin Owusu (18:14.411)
I've wasted enough time talking about Zverev in the last few weeks. We'll put it off until Australia.

Patrick Parr (18:29.265)
But Dimitar though, when I was looking back at like, because there I am, I'm looking at center, looking at his skiing, looking at this extreme sport mentality that I think he brings from skiing to tennis. And I think that goes with Djokovic too. He was a skier. he, that, but not to the extent of center, but he could still borrow from that. And there's an interview with Djokovic and they, he says, Hey, explain each top player in one word. you know, Djokovic is

saying words for other players like perseverance or determination but then Sinner's name and he smiles he's like skiing. He says skiing that was the first word he thinks of with Sinner because he knows I think the athleticism that Sinner is harnessing from skiing that brings into his game. You take Sinner out wide

That's like going around one of those pins in skiing, like going around one of those flags. should ride the gates. So, I mean, that's almost more natural for him to go, okay, I'll go over this way and then hit. Like that pivot is so natural to him because of skiing. And I think if I'm, I have absolutely no idea how to beat Sinner at all, but just.

Alvin Owusu (19:30.005)
Gates, yeah, yeah.

Patrick Parr (19:53.81)
Maybe you and I can volley this back and forth, what do you think about?

Alvin Owusu (19:56.596)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (19:59.472)
crushing a flat forehand in the middle of the court right at center's feet as you go the net. Like I saw Shelton try to do this, but like Shelton's got a football background, right? He was a quarterback. So he has that blitz type mentality. And I think, yeah, how do you, what do you think about that style? with, don't give him a target is kind of what I was thinking, but.

Alvin Owusu (20:25.927)
Right, so I mean, I think there's, I mean, you and I sitting here talking about how to beat Yannick Center is gonna like, let's go ahead and full stop, like that's, it's a little ridiculous, but let's play this game, right? I think if you go back to, not that far back, this is the 2025 US Open final, and you saw Carlos kind of doing a little bit of what you mentioned in.

Patrick Parr (20:34.9)
Yeah Yeah Yeah, we'll play it just a little just a little

Alvin Owusu (20:51.723)
Carlos was coming, especially what it looked like was Carlos was coming in behind shots that didn't look like traditional approach shots, like where you, you you've worked the point, you've got the short ball, you hit a fairly aggressive ball, usually down the line, you come in behind it. He was almost taking random balls, kamikaze style, but taking them up the middle of the court fairly well struck and just coming in behind it and leaning on the idea that I can probably get into a good enough position here.

I've reduced his options to where he either, like if I hit it hard and flat, he's gotta bring it up. And to bring it up, like if I see him go to bring it up, I'm gonna go ahead and bail out on the lob, assume that the lob's not coming, and you saw Carlos going forward and just like knocking off first volleys, like like kamikaze style, right? But then you fast forward to, you go a few months later to the final in Turin.

Patrick Parr (21:28.7)
Right, right.

Patrick Parr (21:43.003)
Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (21:49.931)
And Carlos is trying that and then Yannick brings the lob out. And so that is the neutralizing impact. But I think to your point to be simple about it, like, yeah, don't turn it into this game of like obtuse angles that he wants to work in. Like put him into a tighter place where he's got to come up with some stuff that you would expect maybe someone like a Carlos or a Rafa to come up with. Something that has like forced him to hit.

Patrick Parr (22:05.853)
That's it. Right.

Alvin Owusu (22:18.16)
shots that have parabolas in them, whether you're going around or you're going over and don't let him play with these with these these more angular shots that he prefers.

Patrick Parr (22:27.237)
Yes, yes, yes, you're right.

So and I think that what you mentioned about indoor courts like when they're in the when they're in Turin and Sinner's like, yeah, I'll just I can lob that and then he does and but he can't I don't think he can do that as accurately on outdoor surfaces, right stuff on stuff that moves there. There is a variable there, right? So that might explain why outgrass can have success against Sinner on grass on clay, mainly clay, but I think

center when it comes to indoor I don't know how he loses for like the next three years I just don't see and I don't see anybody even coming close indoor wise so right yeah I never drop the set right yeah

Alvin Owusu (23:14.324)
Well, I mean, no one has come close in a while. mean, I think the dude's something like, yeah, it's kind of ridiculous. I guess I understand it when you look at like, okay, it's two out of three. They're all two out of three matches indoors, right? So that's something to be considered. And that environment and those conditions line up really, really well with his game style.

the same way that outdoor clay lines up perfectly with Carlos' game style, right? So the only difference here is that Carlos, mean, Yannick does not have a Grand Slam indoor to consider, to kind of pocket it as his own. that's kind of the missing thing here, but it's like it's not a fluke. Like the guy's literally won 31 matches in a row indoors, like 90 something.

Patrick Parr (24:02.365)
That's right.

Patrick Parr (24:09.883)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (24:12.906)
Ninety-something wins in his career indoors. That's a ton. That's a lot.

Patrick Parr (24:16.655)
Yeah, there's a guy in the past, Bjorn Borg, who I think, Borg always had this aura about him that the way he was on a court.

And you know, whenever he played macro, he was the was the ice man, right? Borg was the guy who he would not emote on the court. He would try everything possible to just have the poker face throughout the entire four or five hours they were playing. he he gained an advantage just by being completely not lifeless, but I would say more.

Alvin Owusu (24:46.985)
Mm-hmm.

Patrick Parr (24:59.869)
emotionally paralyzed on the court. Whereas I think with center, he's almost like Bjorn Borg with a fist pump. Like he's a guy who just keeps that center core and it intimidates the hell out of the other players. whenever I think players get on the court with center and then they just they're already losing, right? They're already losing because he's gained this

I guess what is it close to the halo effect or not so much that but more more more an extreme quality to his personality that players can't really match themselves and the only person who can is somebody who can work the crowd and get them on their side so obviously that

maybe center begins to reduce himself and think, wow, the crowd really does not want me to win today. And that's Alcares, right? So.

Alvin Owusu (25:59.903)
Yeah, I mean you can even look at it like more, the more factors, the more chaotic, the better for insert center opponent, And that is the antithesis of playing indoors, right? Indoors there are no, there's no wind, there's no sun. It's not, it's kind of where the locations where they play in the time of year, it's not typically too loud. So it's it's perfect, it's almost.

Patrick Parr (26:11.964)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (26:15.773)
Mm.

Patrick Parr (26:19.408)
too.

Alvin Owusu (26:28.458)
perfectly matches his personality and his game style perfectly. Like the same way Pete and grass court tennis were like made for one another. But yeah, I think that is interesting. Whereas like Carlos on clay is outdoor clay, it's a mess. It's unpredictable. Yeah, it is the best. It is the best.

Patrick Parr (26:36.831)
yeah, really.

Patrick Parr (26:44.689)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (26:49.479)
That's the best.

For me, for me to watch at this point because indoor has become such a, such an Yvonne Drago and Rocky 4 going around the track atmosphere. You know, I feel so often when I'm watching indoor tennis, boom, boom, boom, it's almost pong on steroids at this point. And I'm wondering, like if I was playing indoors, how do I even compete in this environment where the

Alvin Owusu (27:04.382)
Yeah. Yep.

Patrick Parr (27:21.983)
crowd doesn't need to exist. It's the conditions are so I mean, they're so favorable to the technically advanced player and the one who has one very specific purpose. Whereas with clay, my God, I mean, there is so there are so many components going on during a clay court match. Just the lump of dirt in one area will affect the entire point which will affect the each other's mentality, right? It's just it's

it's beautiful because it's so unpredictable. That's why I love clay.

Alvin Owusu (27:56.543)
Which is like kind of, I think it's the best reflection of tennis. Tennis is chaotic for as much as it's pegged as a country club sport and it's hoity-toity. Tennis at a high level is pure chaos. You can do all the drills you wanna do. You can hit a million forehands, a million backhands. You practice your serve. You can condition.

Patrick Parr (28:01.66)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (28:23.146)
but once the scoreboard comes on and you start playing points, it's nuts and anything can happen on any given point on clay more so than any other surface. But on the other end of the spectrum, indoor hard court, it's almost like tennis in a test tube, right? It is like, very, it is its thing, it is its thing. But yeah, mean, okay, so you mentioned a few other

Patrick Parr (28:23.495)
That's it.

Patrick Parr (28:29.917)
That's it.

Patrick Parr (28:39.293)
No.

Patrick Parr (28:44.017)
There it is. There it is. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (28:53.57)
not just center skiing, but other tennis players playing other sports. there any, mean soccer is probably the one that, that's the one that, that's almost like the, know, like Maslow's hierarchy of, know, it's like that's the thing that everyone kind of plays, especially with most of these players coming from Europe, like they all grew up playing football. But I think, I think it, I personally think it reflects kind of depending on the level you play up to, like Flavio Kabali, right?

Patrick Parr (28:55.857)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick Parr (29:14.141)
It's true, it's true, yeah.

Patrick Parr (29:23.281)
Mm-hmm.

Alvin Owusu (29:23.644)
He was a very high level soccer player up into his teens and like knows a lot of the guys who play like European soccer professionally, like because those people were in his like those were his in his cohort. So that's like, he wasn't just like a guy that played soccer. He was like a really good soccer player. And you not only see it in the way that he moves, but uniquely in the way that he competes, like he fights. He fights and.

Patrick Parr (29:49.593)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (29:51.953)
He moves with a fluidity, if you, I would say if you look down at his feet and you draw a circle around him, even if you're doing the old school spider drill, he doesn't move necessarily in your three o'clock, one o'clock, 12 o'clock, direct lines. He kind of moves in all directions equally well. And I think that comes from his ability to play in space.

Patrick Parr (30:08.839)
Right.

Patrick Parr (30:14.844)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (30:20.702)
He never feels like he's out of position on a tennis court.

Patrick Parr (30:24.165)
love your bringing up Kaboli, because he is the obvious...

benefactor of a soccer background, right? In the footwork, the, that low core ability to, to get to a ball, to stay centered, to stay balanced and then go through it. just, soccer is very beneficial, but there's also, I'm going to compare everything to skiing. It's probably going to get annoying too, but, compared to skiing, there is an aimlessness in soccer that happens from time to time, right?

Alvin Owusu (30:50.986)
No, let's roll with it.

Patrick Parr (30:59.039)
There is a moment when you're on the field and you're just running after the ball, it's not really... There's a moment where you're taking a mental break a little bit, slightly. There's a slight mental break where you're just, okay, all right, I'm just making sure everything's okay, and you're in your spot. Of course there are other things to think about, but it's not life or death, right? You are not about to die.

Alvin Owusu (31:27.274)
Or like if you're a right back and the left side striker is running down the field with the ball, you're not really doing anything, you're kind of just chilling. So like, that's very Carlos back there, just like, well.

Patrick Parr (31:36.44)
That's it. That's it.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. And Carlos had it too, right? Carlos had a soccer background. So Carlos sitting on the bench, right? Just, hmm, hmm, yeah. But.

Alvin Owusu (31:44.287)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (31:51.942)
Yeah, soccer is beneficial footwork. Like Nadal had it too, right? Nadal had a mad soccer background, but also basketball. We got a lot of US players who have tons of basketball background. I think ball handling wise, because for me, basketball was... I discovered when I was much younger that when I would do ball handling drills with basketball and then I'd go play tennis, I suddenly became slightly better at tennis.

I know why, just from things like a flip roll or bringing the ball around your waist or something like that or even dribbling skills or anything like that, that was translating to better tennis. But at the same time, basketball is, maybe you would disagree with me on this, but if you play a five on five game, ones and twos to 11.

Alvin Owusu (32:22.057)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (32:51.825)
When I'm done playing basketball, I'm more exhausted than I am if I play a two set match with somebody. I don't know how you feel on that, but.

Alvin Owusu (33:01.449)
Okay, so this is very, I'm glad you asked. Because I grew up playing three sports, soccer, basketball, and tennis. And before you met me, yes, so we met in college. But I quit playing soccer first, and I held on to basketball until about sophomore year of high school. And I would always, the winter time was always interesting for me because I was at drills playing tennis.

Patrick Parr (33:08.56)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (33:14.939)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (33:29.171)
Right? Because tennis, you never really stop playing tennis. You're kind of playing all year. And then I would play basketball in the winter. going to basketball practice, like I would be dead tired in the first few weeks, like just like everybody else. And I'm like, but why? Like I just finished a summer of like playing three, four hours a day. Like I'm in really good shape right now, but it's different, right? It's more like playing soccer because there's the basketball has the sprinting.

Patrick Parr (33:50.685)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (33:56.614)
And there are no like in the back and forth, if the ball never goes out of bounds, right, you could be running up and down the court for a couple minutes without stopping. That doesn't happen in tennis, right? That happens in soccer, which I think those from a conditioning standpoint, those are fairly, those are probably fairly similar minus the verticality or, you know, there's some uniqueness about the sport of basketball that makes it different from a physical standpoint than soccer. But that base I think is similar. But the part about

Patrick Parr (33:56.679)
True.

Patrick Parr (34:21.265)
Yes.

Alvin Owusu (34:24.137)
you feeling like your hands were better after going through basketball drills. Like tennis requires you, unlike soccer, to do things with your hands and your feet. You need to be able to do both and often opposite. If your right hand is working, your left foot is usually doing some work. Think about a step in forehand. It's usually like opposite side of the body is doing the work when you're talking about upper body and lower body. And then the rotation of it all.

Patrick Parr (34:27.537)
Mmm.

Patrick Parr (34:34.427)
Right. Right.

Patrick Parr (34:50.865)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (34:52.861)
But if you're dribbling a basketball, like you're dribbling a basketball with your hands, but you're also moving with your feet and you're moving, you know, laterally and, know, and forward and back. And sometimes you're spinning and sometimes you're changing directions, but the ball has to keep moving. So like, it's like your brain is doing two things at the same time. And then you're also having to think, and anticipate a defender doing something to you. like, I think like when you see players warming up and they're juggling,

Patrick Parr (35:07.154)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (35:13.629)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (35:20.125)
like juggling and walking, walking and juggling, doing those kinds of things. Like those are effectively training the same parts of the body, I believe, as like dribbling, dribbling a basketball would. Dribble forward, dribble backwards, two balls at the same time, low dribbles, like cross, like while moving, it's all kind of getting your hands and your feet to work independently of one another, which is what you need in tennis and in basketball if you're handling a basketball.

Patrick Parr (35:20.252)
Hmm.

Patrick Parr (35:37.373)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (35:45.766)
Yeah, I feel tennis and basketball have a synchronicity to each other. I mean, Kobe Bryant was interviewed before he was before his death. I can't remember what talk show he was on, but he said, I'm so into tennis at this point. He says like that individual one on one.

And I would imagine that he saw a benefit after he had retired to go on to tennis court and he had all of this with him, right? I mean, all of these extra bits and...

I think tennis and basketball to me, it's a perfect compliment. again, to bash it compared to skiing, basketball is still not as intense as skiing. Even though skiing is over in like 90 seconds.

There is something just so I can't explain it, but it's it's unquantifiable how advantageous skiing and that fight, you know, fight, live and live or die situation you're in compared to basketball where yeah, you do have to dribble. have to pass. You have to think about your team. You have to think about the crowd. You have to think about the coach what he wants where you're supposed to be position wise footwork getting around the opponent all these factors, but it's

still you're still gonna be okay right you're still gonna be okay but going back to soccer a little bit you brought up I didn't know you played soccer actually so that's yeah

Alvin Owusu (37:08.745)
You're not gonna die if you mess up.

Alvin Owusu (37:19.369)
I did, yeah, I had an interesting soccer background. I was a pretty good player. And then there's this course of three seasons on my travel team, and this is back when travel teams mattered, not like they don't now, but I was actually on a good team that I had to try out for. And I was a striker for a couple seasons, and then I only played soccer in the spring and the fall. I was a part-time soccer player. I just happened to be pretty good. And I was playing basketball, and I was playing tennis.

Patrick Parr (37:36.176)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (37:49.2)
As we started to get into like middle school and into high school, the guys on my team started to specialize in soccer. So like, I remember one year I went from striker to, and we were doing like footwork drills and stuff. My footwork wasn't there. So my coach moved me to midfield and I okay. Well, I just have gone back a little bit in the, in the field. Okay. Well, I can still, I can still run all day. I got to feel for the, for the field. That's fine. And then we, did that for two seasons. And then the next year I came back and I hadn't been, I hadn't touched soccer ball in like six months. And

Patrick Parr (38:06.173)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (38:17.287)
my footwork skills, my ball skills weren't there, so I got moved to defense and I was like, okay. I'm still on the team, I'm still starting, but now I used to be up there and now the guys who are up there, they've been ball on foot for every day for the last two years. I'm out, I'm gonna go back, I'm done now.

Patrick Parr (38:22.471)
Wow.

Patrick Parr (38:26.012)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (38:32.786)
Yeah.

Wow, wow. I think I played soccer when I was about seven or eight and it was just they're like try to be the goalie. Just try to be the goalie and then that failed and then I stepped away but it that takes yeah yeah sorry yeah yeah.

Alvin Owusu (38:49.449)
One thing about the skiing before we go over to soccer. So I picked up snowboarding when I was like 30. My wife's family, they're outdoors snow people, they ski. But I skateboarded as a kid too, so was like, okay, well if I'm gonna try either one of these right now as a 30 year old, I'll go with snowboarding, at least I'm comfortable going downhill sideways. Okay, fine.

Patrick Parr (38:59.729)
Wow. Yeah.

Yeah.

Patrick Parr (39:15.109)
Okay. Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (39:17.865)
once I got going and I picked it up, there is this certain calmness when you're going really fast down the side of a mountain. You have to be relaxed, but you have to be extremely focused. those two things are, they're opposites of one another, but actually to be focused, you need to be relaxed. There needs to be this calm inside of you, and it's almost like.

Patrick Parr (39:37.5)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (39:41.181)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (39:44.457)
You remember like in Mario Kart when you'd like go really, really fast and sometimes you would separate from your, like from your, from your kart and there's like a shadow version of you that you're chasing, like that's your, like your best time or whatever. It's almost like that, you're almost watching yourself go down the hill. Like it's that almost out of body type of feeling, but to have to do it for so long, again, you make one mistake and you, sometimes you might not die, but you could.

Patrick Parr (39:52.155)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (39:59.038)
Right.

Patrick Parr (40:10.321)
You're right, you could, you could, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (40:12.358)
very different than having to focus for a few seconds on a tennis court. Most tennis points are lost within the first four shots. These 20 ball rallies aren't normal. it's nothing like, it must be nothing to a skier.

Patrick Parr (40:22.097)
Yeah. Yeah, when

Patrick Parr (40:28.315)
That's right.

I went back and watched the Australian Open Final with Sinner and Medvedev. And Medvedev had won the first two sets against Sinner. And I thought, wow, he found something. And I think Medvedev's ball is just a nightmare for a lot of other players. The way it moves through space is different than most players. And I know Mehdi knows that about his shots, of course. But once you get

used to the ball, then it becomes this sort of war of attrition. then they were starting, especially in the third set, four set with center and Medvedev center just started to just go back and Medvedev almost it is, I hate to use this over and over again, but it is like a machine, but it was more of what you just talked about, like on the, on the slopes, like center, the longer the rally went, he almost feels if he's getting even more comfortable in that rally, he's not getting less comfortable.

not getting exhausted like maybe say Zverev shows after a 50-shot rally or anything but center loves that immersion during a point when a ball is going back and forth with a rhythm and yeah I think that that that goes off of what you're saying is to be calm during a really intense in intense moment but all right soccer all right I got this yeah yeah

Alvin Owusu (41:55.465)
And the Medvedev-Center thing is really funny. Well, no, now you got me going on this Medvedev thing because Medvedev-Center is a really, really interesting one because they're head to head, it's pretty close. It's seven wins for Medvedev, eight for Center. But of those seven wins, six of them came before like 2023, something like, I don't know, six, like yeah.

Patrick Parr (41:59.558)
Yeah, we'll get back to it. All right.

Sure.

Patrick Parr (42:24.157)
Mm.

Alvin Owusu (42:24.2)
Many came out six and in their first six meetings, right? And then post-Puke Center happened and now Center has won seven of the last eight. it's like that, it's almost like their head to head matchups like over time have been a macrocosm of like the way that their matches go with Medvedev like on the ground level. Like once you get the hang of it,

Patrick Parr (42:28.573)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (42:52.934)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (42:55.174)
you can work with it. And that's kind of what Yannick has done to this point. To this point with Matty. Okay, soccer. I mean, I distracted you.

Patrick Parr (42:56.539)
That's true.

Well Medvedev, you know, yeah, yeah. right. We'll go back. No, it's all right. Yeah, I someday I am going to want to talk about Medvedev in a very annoying way and anybody who's watching will be like, whoa, I'm skipping that one. But I would.

Alvin Owusu (43:16.872)
I'll be here for it.

Patrick Parr (43:19.235)
Okay, cool. But yeah, I've been watching many more more than any other athlete. And I do want to say one thing about Medvedev. Just one before we go to soccer, I got a good quote from Federer about soccer. And Medvedev is underestimated for one big reason. He does not get to have his country.

really supporting him at all. is he is the independent contractor of the ATP tour. I feel he is the guy who has to be so unbelievably unsupported everywhere he goes that we we take for granted how

much of an advantage that actually is for a player to have a base. I think Rublev is in the same situation. They're guys who are, they're renegades and they have to be, they have no choice. And their entire career, they've just been, yeah, they've been unsupported in a way that we probably can't understand because most athletes are identified with the country that they belong to.

especially in tennis I feel but that's my my two cents on methadone.

Alvin Owusu (44:29.0)
Yeah, which is, that's an oddity in tennis though. It makes a lot of sense because it is a global sport that does tour around the world, right? And the financial structure of tennis is one where if you have a Grand Slam in your country, there are a lot of things that come with that. It's like Grand Slam means a few extra tournaments. England does not have a Masters 1000, but they have a smattering of 500s considering they're a very small.

know, small space in the calendar. But the amount of, the financial impact of having a grand slam and what that does to tennis in that country is immeasurable, right? It's immeasurable. It's one of things that just feeds on itself over and over.

Patrick Parr (45:09.546)
Yeah, yeah, there's... Right. Yeah, there's Medvedev winning the US Open against Djokovic.

You don't see him going down the streets of Moscow, right? don't see... Nobody is doing, right? mean, he won it and then he thanked his wife and it was really... It was a really sweet speech. And then there it is. mean, off he goes. You know, good job. Time for the next tournament and the one after that. And I feel it's sad with Medvedev. He didn't get even like Kofelnikov's...

Alvin Owusu (45:23.559)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (45:49.375)
Adoration at the time it or even saffon, know, saffon is now well, he's into the machine a bit but he's you know, I met medvedev has done so much with his With his career that I think and it's just he gets let's go to soccer. Okay Anyway, yeah. Yeah, we'll go suck but Yeah. Oh, no. No, we're gonna go back

We're gonna go back because I had another Yeah so Demon R I was looking into the backgrounds of all the top 10 and Just just so that I could rip all everybody's background compared to skiing and I found with Demon R though with Demon R I Felt that he's He's more Spanish than he is Australian isn't he?

Alvin Owusu (46:16.698)
Okay, all right, and this is what happens. This is what happens.

Alvin Owusu (46:26.568)
Uh-huh.

Alvin Owusu (46:41.704)
He is. He really is. He really is.

Patrick Parr (46:42.907)
He is more Spanish. I know Australia gave him the opportunity. And I mean, I know that Todd Woodbridge was like, wait, you got dual citizenship? Yeah, come on over to Australia. know, Todd Woodbridge brought him over. So he's an Aussie sort of by default. So when I think about Demon now, when I watch him play, go, you're Spanish. You've got that David Ferrer light.

Alvin Owusu (46:47.155)
He is.

Patrick Parr (47:12.831)
career, you know and that that made a big impact then of course did he played soccer I think to him a bit and I I felt that Demon has a really good clip about him like I love watching that guy play as as I've told you quite a bit, but Yeah, I think

Spain really messed up by not bringing that guy into the fold a bit more sooner. anyway, that was just,

Alvin Owusu (47:44.232)
Well, I mean, that's the thing with with these federations, though, right? Like the federations, they they support X amount of players every year coming out. Right. It's like, OK, well, you've got we've got four guys turning pro this year. OK, we'll support these four guys. And if you're not one of the top four guys or three guys, whatever it is, then you don't get the support. I mean, you've seen this happen with like Elena Rebecca. Right. There was a smattering of of Russian players and she was not that.

She's just not one of those top ones at the time. So, okay, switch the flag, go to Kazakhstan and then boom, here you go. Same thing with Bublik, right? Again, Kazakhstan again, but Bublik is Russian. Like let's call Spain a spade, right? And like the funny thing about Demidor, he is he is Mr. Australia. Neither of his parents are Australian. Like his father is Uruguayan. Uruguayan, is that the word? And then mother is, like you said, Spanish. He was born in Spain, he was born in Australia and then moved to Spain.

Patrick Parr (48:20.797)
Yeah. That's it. Yeah.

Patrick Parr (48:31.879)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's right. Yeah. It got back.

Alvin Owusu (48:40.687)
as a young child and then they got him to come back for the tennis, right? this is what, yeah, they got him back. And now he's pretty much got a kangaroo tattoo on his back. He is Mr. Australia. But tennis is funny like that. You gotta have a nation to hitch your boat to and if you have one like Australia and they put the money, grand slam country.

Patrick Parr (48:56.187)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (49:10.587)
You know, has the resources to put that and give you the opportunities as well. versus someone like, like Medvedev who comes from a country that does not have the grand slam. I mean, they have a history of high level tennis that they, that they have produced, but lately in the time that, you know, as Medvedev has risen and what's going on in Russia right now, it's like, it's, it's a, it's a tough sell and you can see the difference there.

Patrick Parr (49:20.86)
Right.

Patrick Parr (49:27.975)
Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Parr (49:37.81)
Yeah, well, I thought a lot about support, know, center, of course, his parents, a chef.

and a waitress at a restaurant near a ski village, right? So like in Northern Italy. But when I look at Center, yeah, he asked, yes, he's Italian. Of course, I know I got it. But I think the demeanor of him, when I first saw him play and I didn't see the Italian flag, I didn't know he was Italian. And I'm just watching tennis and I see him for the first time. I still remember this. I was watching it with my wife and I said, that's Norway.

it's a Norwegian guy. He's Norwegian. I really think he's Norwegian. I felt that I was starting to, I needed to take a step back and just watch people play without thinking of their country, know, like thinking of them more as independent entities. that's a, that's a side, side clip. But yeah.

Alvin Owusu (50:37.319)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (50:41.351)
I mean, much do you think about people's, about players' country of origin when you're watching them play tennis?

Patrick Parr (50:50.745)
Now, now I don't so much, you know, I think there is this temptation just because it comes from other sports, right? maybe it's we've been Olympicized, right? I we've been or World Cup geared, right? We tend to and Davis Cup even, creates this nationalistic vibe, but.

Alvin Owusu (51:06.695)
Mmm.

Patrick Parr (51:14.557)
Naomi Osaka over here in Japan, she's very... she's Japanese. She's on all the advertising, but I would say she's far more American in mentality than Japanese. But that's going to get me in hot water probably, but I think she...

Alvin Owusu (51:36.929)
Yeah, I'll be shocked if we can actually finish this podcast. You're probably gonna lose your internet here.

Patrick Parr (51:42.622)
Yeah, perhaps, but no, well, I think she is someone who has benefited greatly from being.

Connected to Japan and she has a huge fan base here, but at the same time Yeah, that she is an example of why we probably should not attach nationalities to players so much Like I think one of the reasons I love medvedev one of the reasons I love medvedev is probably my favorite player to watch is because he he does feel completely independent of Another greater source so

So I like watching a player who really has very little support.

Alvin Owusu (52:35.079)
I only laugh because I know you and that tracks like 110%. That's just really funny to me. Really funny to me.

Patrick Parr (52:35.1)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, the lack of, well, I mean, I was a guy who would come onto the court with one racket and a Coca-Cola, you know, and I would, I had other rackets. I had better drinks, but I would do that just so you could see that that is how serious I was taking you in that match. Like I only need a Coca-Cola and one racket to beat you today. So like that was, I did that often. Even at, even at our college, even at Catawba, I would, I would do that. I would bring out a one.

Alvin Owusu (53:05.031)
It's cold.

Patrick Parr (53:11.421)
and just, I would even like show it, I'd string it like this real obvious, like, yep, this is the only one I need, but anyway, but of course that doesn't work on a higher level, but yeah.

soccer. Let's go to soccer, So I found this quote, yeah, I found this quote, I think it was from the Clary book, but, so Federer is 12 and he's deciding between soccer and tennis. And actually, I guess he got really good at, really good at soccer. And he says,

Alvin Owusu (53:26.599)
my goodness.

Alvin Owusu (53:30.737)
Let's do it.

Patrick Parr (53:49.042)
this one line, says, I wanted to have the victory or defeat in my own hands without having to depend on others. Now that's his reason for choosing tennis over soccer.

Alvin Owusu (54:03.842)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's extremely poignant. mean, like that's the, that is the principle in team sport versus individual sport, right? Like I can do, I can play the best game possible and we can still lose by 30 in team sport. And it's in tennis, like that is the, that's the crux of tennis, right? It's all in your hands. It's all in your hands.

Patrick Parr (54:04.902)
I could feel that.

Patrick Parr (54:25.147)
Yeah, yeah.

Alvin Owusu (54:33.07)
You show up with what you got and it's all in your hands.

Patrick Parr (54:33.351)
That's it. And that is why skiing, I now understand, supports an individual athlete trying to be a tennis player the best. My hot take is now that skiing, because it's individual as well, right? You are on your own. Do you think team sports prepare the... Yeah, okay, okay.

Alvin Owusu (54:55.888)
So... Yeah... Here's the problem. Here's the problem as-

Patrick Parr (55:03.217)
Go for it.

Alvin Owusu (55:04.696)
No, I'm only gonna say this, because we take ourselves out of this hyper tennis conversation, right? Because we are nerds in the nerd bowl right now. But you've taken yourself out of it. We have just said that the sport that, so for this elite sport that we have, Highly inaccessible sport that we already have, in order to be properly prepared for it, you need to have experience in another.

Patrick Parr (55:11.025)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (55:32.923)
highly inaccessible sport. As a black man, I have a hard time really just rubber stamping that one and sending it through, but I hear you. I hear your argument. I agree with parts of it. I'm just saying this can't be true. We can't live in a world where this is the best way, that this is the best way.

Patrick Parr (55:33.511)
Yeah

Patrick Parr (55:51.046)
Yeah.

Patrick Parr (56:00.976)
Well, yeah, I agree. Skiing is...

I mean, I had one chance to ski in my life. I was teaching in Switzerland one year and they said, hey, come on up to the mountain and ski. And I'm like, well, I don't want to die. So I'm going to stay down here. And they're like, come on. It's just beginner skiing. but that was like the one moment I actually had a chance to go do this sport, which so it's even more inaccessible than it could be one of the most inaccessible sports in the world. Right. So I hear you on that. It's just

The reason I'm hammering home this point is because Sinner, like, how do you match that? How do you match that intensity on the court? And this is why he's so unbeatable, I think. It's just, this is the X factor of Sinner, is this advantage that he has from this inaccessible sport that he became a champion in at a very early age and developed him into somebody who

could use that leverage it on the tennis court. So that's really, I guess maybe it's a redundant point, but it's that it's team sports to me. This is what I want your view on. Do you think you have to have team sport experience or exposure to become a great tennis player?

Alvin Owusu (57:34.503)
I think it helps but not because of the actual physical attributes of the sport. I think it helps more from a mentality standpoint. Well, okay, I take that back. We see this now with the rise of injury in athletes, tennis players who are specializing in sports too soon.

any athletes that are specializing in sports too soon because their bodies are only learning how to move in one particular way. And kids, especially here in the United States, play outside a lot less now. So being able to build a robust athletic base comes from having your body do lots of different types of things as you're maturing and growing into your muscles and bones. So I think that's probably the one major benefit of playing any sport that's not tennis.

Patrick Parr (58:30.93)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (58:31.47)
It helps you with being a better athlete, which helps you become a better tennis player. There's also the mentality of some other team sports are just a little bit more rough than tennis, and that helps you round out a certain part of your personality, because I think you have to bring a certain edge to a tennis court to be a little bit different, to gain an advantage, to make it not about forehands and backhands.

in angles, it's like you to make it non-center, like you need to you need to bring something else because you're not going to beat him doing what he does because I think he does what he does better than anyone else does what he does and that is the way the majority of players today play tennis. So like back to your original point about like even bringing heat through the middle of the court and then pressuring him, I think it's gonna like if we are not to live in a world where it's just Carlos and Janek

Patrick Parr (59:21.501)
Hmm.

Alvin Owusu (59:30.797)
know, dancing to the Grand Slam finals for the foreseeable future, it's going to take someone who's willing to do things differently. And like someone, I'm not saying it is Ben Shelton, I'm not saying it's not Ben Shelton, I'm saying someone like Ben Shelton. And I've started to see Ben start to play a little more like everyone else, but I would like to see him lean into the uniqueness of being a

Patrick Parr (59:39.228)
Yeah.

Alvin Owusu (59:59.345)
hyper-athletic, six-four lefty who does not necessarily, I'm gonna say he doesn't come from tennis like the way everyone else does. He definitely comes from tennis. father was a professional tennis player and a high-level college coach, right? So he definitely grew up around tennis, but playing football very long into his athletic youth and then also not being an internationally traveling junior tennis player, he is still a bit of an outsider.

Patrick Parr (01:00:14.065)
Right.

Alvin Owusu (01:00:29.51)
I think there's a perspective that he can bring that allows him to see the game differently. So someone like that is gonna be the one that kinda throws a stick in the gears here.

Patrick Parr (01:00:35.163)
Yeah, yeah, see, yes. That's the thing. I think what I'm looking for from the rest of the field when I'm watching tennis is who is bringing something that's unique and has not been.

has not been tested or shown in the tennis history before. So Ben shot him the hit stat for me because, but at the same time, his biggest advantage is a blitz type of like to serve and the volley, right? I mean, like that tends to be where I feel Ben can do the most damage, but what is that? That's three or four shots, right? And so playing somebody like center, that volley has to be

different and that's it that's all he's got is that one moment so it's very difficult to find that advantage in such a short amount of time so for Shelton I'm talking about but I think

His shot, his shot selection, Ben, I love watching when he bum rushes the net like as quickly as possible. Even if it's at the most absurd moments because that is it's taking center out of the flow or Alkraz or anybody really. Although Alkraz can handle a tornado pretty much at this point. But so with Shelton.

There is some unpredictability he could still work with, but Lahatchika, going back to him, I think he has an absurd athleticism and I think he could...

Patrick Parr (01:02:20.401)
be somebody who brings something out of his game that we haven't seen yet. I also think Mensich as well, but I know this has been covered in past pods, just somebody who's bringing a different element, maybe from another sport in their past.

Because look at look at Agassi right when you say when you think about Agassi you think okay his dad was a boxer right so boxing and Agassi yeah I see that and though even the way Agassi talks about tennis he's like we got to bleed the opponent we got to bleed him this way or that you know he he talks about wearing them down I'm gonna go right and left until you just you collapse right I mean that was Agassi's approach

So it's really about that supporting sport, I feel, in each player's past that really brings that extra ingredient into tennis. I love, that's what I love so much about tennis is just, it is really about the whole mind and the experience of the past that brings them into who they are now. That's so fascinating. I don't think any sport can really match that, but hey.

Alvin Owusu (01:03:34.181)
think that's so well put and I think that's actually a really good place to stop, actually. Pat, that was fun. I love when we get a chance to do this. I look forward to the next one. I'm not sure when this is gonna roll, probably right around Christmas. this is for all of you out there, if it is Christmas, Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and we'll catch you guys on the next one.

Patrick Parr (01:03:39.869)
Okay.

Patrick Parr (01:03:58.462)
All right, thanks, Alvin. See you, everybody.